All this talk about Suleiman made me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ73Dc0pC8M

music to celebrate to?

I’d heard earlier that he had fled Cairo, presumably with the national treasury.

This is either very good news, or it is the End of Days as Baal-0, Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead, Jeff Merrill, Norbit, Jr., Nutso, Bitter and Tormented Michelle in Utah, Tumbleweed and their ilk might tend to see it.

After last night, it seemed inevitable.

Looks like the Obama Administration got this just about right, or the Kenyan “Commanist” Usurper has hastened the End of Days as Baal-0, Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead, Jeff Merrill, Norbit, Jr., Nutso, Bitter and Tormented Michelle in Utah, Tumbleweed and their ilk might tend to see it.

sarainitaly said:
All this talk about Suleiman made me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ73Dc0pC8M

music to celebrate to?

Well, I’m shocked. Whatever moved you to think, Tumbleweed?

Think Israel is shining up its nukes right now?

Tony Westover said:
Think Israel is shining up its nukes right now?

Their nukes are probably already shined up.

paulmdoro said:
Tony Westover said:
Think Israel is shining up its nukes right now?

Their nukes are probably already shined up.

I saw an interview with a couple of Israeli bigwigs last night on the BBC, and they seem to believe this is all well under control. They were much more comfortable with a dictator in place in Egypt, to be sure, but they repeatedly said that this was not an Iran-style “revolution”, not driven by religious fundamentalists.

We should probably note, as I suggested yesterday, interim power resides with the Egyptian military.

Berlin Wall my behind. The same people are still running the country. He is a figurehead, the structure he left behind and his chosen one continues the reign. The Media get on my nerves, they find the need to create a story, a moving picture and tell us about it.

The Real Rabid Kook said:
I’d heard earlier that he had fled Cairo, presumably with the national treasury.

This is either very good news, or it is the End of Days as Baal-0, Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead, Jeff Merrill, Norbit, Jr., Nutso, Bitter and Tormented Michelle in Utah, Tumbleweed and their ilk might tend to see it.

After last night, it seemed inevitable.

Looks like the Obama Administration got this just about right, or the Kenyan “Commanist” Usurper has hastened the End of Days as Baal-0, Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead, Jeff Merrill, Norbit, Jr., Nutso, Bitter and Tormented Michelle in Utah, Tumbleweed and their ilk might tend to see it.

Do you ever disgust yourself? Enormous news like this breaks, and you just can’t wait to take the opportunity to drop a litany of your favorite silly nicknames and take shots at your enemies list? You’re pathetic, Kook. Absolutely pathetic.

skyfet said:
Berlin Wall my behind. The same people are still running the country. He is a figurehead, the structure he left behind and his chosen one continues the reign. The Media get on my nerves, they find the need to create a story, a moving picture and tell us about it.

Yep. The only thing that changes here is that the protests will end. Mubarak’s iron fist was taken away from him weeks ago.

It will be very interesting to see what becomes of this.

And now the real work begins. Anyone who claims to know where this is going is a fool. This could be very good or very bad. If it goes to an Islamic state we could be looking at WWIII. Cross you finger and fasten your seatbelts kids it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

The Real Royal King said:
We should probably note, as I suggested yesterday, interim power resides with the Egyptian military.

Very true…

Pablo said:
Do you ever disgust yourself? Enormous news like this breaks, and you just can’t wait to take the opportunity to drop a litany of your favorite silly nicknames and take shots at your enemies list? You’re pathetic, Kook. Absolutely pathetic.

he’s a pathetic, useless poc who just needs to be ignored.
oh how i wish they would just ban his irrelevant offtopic useless self.
he ruins threads.

obama must have had the aspirin in the mail….

Pablo said:
Do you ever disgust yourself? Enormous news like this breaks, and you just can’t wait to take the opportunity to drop a litany of your favorite silly nicknames and take shots at your enemies list? You’re pathetic, Kook. Absolutely pathetic.

I think someone is upset they are not in the list.

sarainitaly said:
he’s a pathetic, useless poc who just needs to be ignored.
oh how i wish they would just ban his irrelevant offtopic useless self.
he ruins threads.

You sound bitter!

sarainitaly said:
he’s a pathetic, useless poc who just needs to be ignored.
oh how i wish they would just ban his irrelevant offtopic useless self.
he ruins threads.

This is NOTHING compared to what it did at OW and attempted to do at J$’s Place. It was smacked down and hard.

sarainitaly said:
Pablo said:
Do you ever disgust yourself? Enormous news like this breaks, and you just can’t wait to take the opportunity to drop a litany of your favorite silly nicknames and take shots at your enemies list? You’re pathetic, Kook. Absolutely pathetic.

he’s a pathetic, useless poc who just needs to be ignored.
oh how i wish they would just ban his irrelevant offtopic useless self.
he ruins threads.

Seems to me I have three (3) well-written topical posts on this thread and, between the two (2) of you, there are none.

Pablo said:
Do you ever disgust yourself? Enormous news like this breaks, and you just can’t wait to take the opportunity to drop a litany of your favorite silly nicknames and take shots at your enemies list? You’re pathetic, Kook. Absolutely pathetic.

Pablo: in all fairness, I rarely see a thread here where some right-winger doesn’t post some sophomoric one liner. Not excusing the behavior, but if you’re going to call out one, call out another.

skyfet said:
You sound bitter!

nice detective work.

Olby Sucks said:
This is NOTHING compared to what it did at OW and attempted to do at J$’s Place. It was smacked down and hard.

I do have to admit I have never threatened any president’s life on-line as you have.

Pablo said:
Do you ever disgust yourself? Enormous news like this breaks, and you just can’t wait to take the opportunity to drop a litany of your favorite silly nicknames and take shots at your enemies list? You’re pathetic, Kook. Absolutely pathetic.

Thanks, Pablo and Sara. Saved me a bunch of typing to reply to this fool. I have to totally agree that anyone that is using this amazing fight for freedom in Egypt as an excuse to hurl partisan food fight nonsense is genuinely sad and pathetic.

And we agree yet again. Who knows…maybe more civility and courtesy will break out.

I love how there has been so many guys in here just whining like little girls about how Obama has handled this situation. McCain and Palin would have done a much better job of handling the Egyptian revolution right? Such fools…

More unsubstantiated drivel from the phony name jacker…

This is potentially good news. I was just reading on the power of private capital and there are some possible similarities here.

When global finance shed central control it took down Communism in Russia, Poland, Hungary and elsewhere.

“With remarkable speed and surprisingly little violence, the Iron Curtain fell in 1989, radically changing the political and economic conditions that had been in place in Europe since World War II.

For years, Communist countries had been plagued by stagnant economies, low productivity, inefficient industry, and constant shortages of consumer goods. One by one, the Communist regimes of Eastern Europe collapsed in 1989. Was this the end of the centrally planned economies? ” http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/mm/eng/mm_dt_06.htm

East Germany is a great example.

“On November 10th, after over 35 years in power, Todor Zhivkov was forced to resign his positions as Bulgaria’s head of state and Communist party leader. Shortly afterwards, protesters obtained democratic reforms, including free elections and the repeal of the Communist party’s monopoly of power. ”

Lets hope Egypt has a bright, prosperous, and free future.

The Real Royal King said:
Seems to me I have three (3) well-written topical posts on this thread and, between the two (2) of you, there are none.

Seriously, King. Try to set the insult machine aside for 5 entire minutes. This is not a left/right issue. This is a moment where we get to see a new democracy born of the same pain and determination that ours was. Instead of using this as another excuse to hurl poo at the other side, we, as Americans, should set that aside and show the Egyptians that even in the midst of our partisan crapfest, we still stand together for freedom.

Well, so much for their tourism industry.

SilentSam said:
I love how there has been so many guys in here just whining like little girls about how Obama has handled this situation. McCain and Palin would have done a much better job of handling the Egyptian revolution right? Such fools…

Oh good , Canada has weighed in . LOL

tatboy said:
And now the real work begins. Anyone who claims to know where this is going is a fool. This could be very good or very bad. If it goes to an Islamic state we could be looking at WWIII. Cross you finger and fasten your seatbelts kids it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

i feel the same way now as i did watching the saddam statue topple – i hope that this is what the people want. and that someone good will move in and lead, and the people will be free, successful, happy, and the country will move forward.
and world peace. ;O)

Speculating on what McCain and Palin would have done is beside the point and a waste of time.

Olby Sucks said:
More unsubstantiated drivel from the phony name jacker…

We all remember you hiding under your horse’s blanket for months, but, enough about you and your illegal activity.

Mubarak has apparently fled to Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort, very posh but reasonable, favored by British tourists. Sharm el-Sheikh has been an oasis of calm and Mubarak has a residence there. But, there seems to be a great deal of informed speculation that he is trying to work out exile arrangements with the British.

SilentSam said:
I love how there has been so many guys in here just whining like little girls about how Obama has handled this situation. McCain and Palin would have done a much better job of handling the Egyptian revolution right? Such fools…

Either one of them could have figured out something like this in about the time it took me to do it.

Obama hasn’t handled this, at all, aside from trying to cover his ass by taking every conceivable position and reeling off platitudes.

Great job Obama, and you didn’t attack another country based on a lie in the process.

i thought this was a funny tweet:
jimgeraghty
In Hosni Mubarak, we have witnessed the most delayed, contentious, disputed, retracted and repeated retirement since Brett Favre.

Keeva said:
Seriously, King. Try to set the insult machine aside for 5 entire minutes. This is not a left/right issue. This is a moment where we get to see a new democracy born of the same pain and determination that ours was. Instead of using this as another excuse to hurl poo at the other side, we, as Americans, should set that aside and show the Egyptians that even in the midst of our partisan crapfest, we still stand together for freedom.

In fairness, I was attacked by the shrill nincompoops in a string of their off-topic posts, but I agree this ought not be a left-right issue. In fact, with the exception of this who have the need to attack our President over everything, I think this is an issue on which we have something of a consensus as Americans. If what we have said about Iraq and Iran is true, and I think it largely is, we indeed ought to welcome this as a budding of freedom and democracy in a country which ought to be well-suited to support the same. I have in my heart and have for a long time had much affection and respect for the Egyptian people.

bealzebubba said:
Pablo: in all fairness, I rarely see a thread here where some right-winger doesn’t post some sophomoric one liner. Not excusing the behavior, but if you’re going to call out one, call out another.

Your point is well taken, but I’m particularly aghast that the second comment posted on a subject of this magnitude was that moronic puddle of vomit.

possibly said:
Great job Obama, and you didn’t attack another country based on a lie in the process.

Hear! Hear!

I will say, I think the shift in American foreign policy actually began when W canned Rumsfeld and effectively side-stepped Big Dick Cheney. W apparently sensed that the approach on Iraq had been very wrong, indeed. In some sense, this is an example of continuity in American foreign policy.

This is a revolution, Glenn Beck. Not a bunch of pissed off seniors whining about their Cost of Living Adjustments.

Pablo said:
bealzebubba said:
Pablo: in all fairness, I rarely see a thread here where some right-winger doesn’t post some sophomoric one liner. Not excusing the behavior, but if you’re going to call out one, call out another.

Your point is well taken, but I’m particularly aghast that the second comment posted on a subject of this magnitude was that moronic puddle of vomit.

Although I am not a party to this conversation, I do think you have a point Pablo.

The Real Royal King said:
In fairness, I was attacked by the shrill nincompoops in a string of their off-topic posts, but I agree this ought not be a left-right issue.

In fairness this was first post .

The Real Royal King said:
This is either very good news, or it is the End of Days as Baal-0, Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead, Jeff Merrill, Norbit, Jr., Nutso, Bitter and Tormented Michelle in Utah, Tumbleweed and their ilk might tend to see it.
After last night, it seemed inevitable.
Looks like the Obama Administration got this just about right, or the Kenyan “Commanist” Usurper has hastened the End of Days as Baal-0, Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead, Jeff Merrill, Norbit, Jr., Nutso, Bitter and Tormented Michelle in Utah, Tumbleweed and their ilk might tend to see it.

The Real Royal King said:
In fairness, I was attacked by the shrill nincompoops in a string of their off-topic posts

you liar.

^^^^^your^^^^^

Pablo always has a point. You? Not so much.

SilentSam said:
I love how there has been so many guys in here just whining like little girls about how Obama has handled this situation. McCain and Palin would have done a much better job of handling the Egyptian revolution right? Such fools…

Anybody see the irony in this post? I guess whining about McCain and Palin is OK? LOL

I get where your coming from, completely and I agree with you. I believe Keeva and one other person said the same thing in a roundabout way and that’s what I was kind of trying to get to. Unfortunately, it’s something that happens on both side of the spectrum and it’s not a trait that is more common on either side. I roll my eyes every time I see someone try to turn a general news story, which clearly has nothing to do with politics or any US politician, into a partisan bickerfest.

Mr. C just PROVED you a liar, phony name jacker. Now what?

sarainitaly said:
you liar.

Your string of posts bashing our President and me and anyone who sees the world somewhat differently than you suggest otherwise, but, again, you’re off-topic.

sarainitaly said:
All this talk about Suleiman made me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ73Dc0pC8M

I think of that song every time I hear his name. But, Colby, Souleyman? Is that supposed to be a joke of some sort?

The Real Royal King said:
Your string of posts bashing our President and me and anyone who sees the world somewhat differently than you suggest otherwise, but, again, you’re off-topic.

liar liar liar liiiaaaaaaaar.
(sung to the tune of money, money, money)

This is relatively good news. Although this is now the big test for Egypt, what kind of government is going to be in place after this. I hope is it more like the American revolution than the French revolution. We will have to wait and see.

@jaketapper:cant find anyone in O admin who thinks whatever comes next will be better for U.S. interests than Mubarak was

:o|

Jackyboy said:
This is relatively good news. Although this is now the big test for Egypt, what kind of government is going to be in place after this. I hope is it more like the American revolution than the French revolution. We will have to wait and see.

Precisely. It’s too soon to be characterizing this as a Berlin Wall moment.

a funny tweet:

jtLOL ‘Jim’ ‘Treacher’
If you’re excited about people-powered movements bringing social change as long as they’re not a bunch of teabaggers, #youmightbealiberal.

Sky News is reporting and showing spontaneous celebrations in Beirut and Gaza, and there are apparently great celebrations elsewhere in the region. This is all exciting and touching.

“Berlin Wall Moment”

If Obama’s people want to always have him compared to President Regan…kept up the “Berlin Wall” comparison.

Lefties can never seem to be able to make their own footsteps. They always have to try to convince (and they are never very good at it) us that they are better than someone else.

Let’s see now, President Obama has been compared to….
FDR
JFK
Bill “pants on the ground” Clinton
Jimma’ Carter
Ronald Regan
He has carried on the same policies as GWB
When is he going to be himself?

BatBoy said:
“Berlin Wall Moment”

If Obama’s people want to always have him compared to President Regan…kept up the “Berlin Wall” comparison.

Lefties can never seem to be able to make their own footsteps. They always have to try to convince (and they are never very good at it) us that they are better than someone else.

Let’s see now, President Obama has been compared to….
FDR
JFK
Bill “pants on the ground” Clinton
Jimma’ Carter
Ronald Regan
He has carried on the same policies as GWB
When is he going to be himself?

That’s a simplistic and inaccurate generalization. And the media is to blame for the comparisons, not the president.

sarainitaly said:
@jaketapper:cant find anyone in O admin who thinks whatever comes next will be better for U.S. interests than Mubarak was

:o|

Not too surprising. American foreign policy has long rested upon the iron hand of brutal dictators. This is new territory for Americans. Democracy can be messy and may not always produce the results we want. It is a very fortunate circumstance that the US began to shift its perspective, ever so slightly, near the end of W’s administration and is better able to cope. This is going to work out well for us. I have every confidence. By embracing the people who bought this about, we are being Americans for the first time in many years.

sarainitaly said:
a funny tweet:

jtLOL ‘Jim’ ‘Treacher’
If you’re excited about people-powered movements bringing social change as long as they’re not a bunch of teabaggers, #youmightbealiberal.

No, it’s not funny. It sets up an equivalence between an oppressed people setting themselves free and a privileged people holding tightly to their wallets lest someone take a dime from them. It really slanders the people who have risked so much in Cairo.

Anderson Cooper to replace Penetta at CIA…
Richard Engel to replace Clapper at DNI…
Muslim Brotherhood to replace Mubarak in Cairo…

Dam those Code Pink radicals. Does their evil, know no bounds?

possibly says:
Great job Obama!

I’m sorry, are you crediting Obama for orchestrating this? Are you kidding me!

“American foreign policy has long rested upon the iron hand of brutal dictators.”

The King is still miffed that we helped overthrow Hitler and installed a dictator in his place.

The Real Rabid Kook said:
Not too surprising. American foreign policy has long rested upon the iron hand of brutal dictators. This is new territory for Americans.

American policy has long rested upon dealings with the leaders of all sorts of countries. This isn’t the least bit news for us. There are 4 countries that we do not have diplomatic relationships with: Iran, Cuba, North Korea and for some reason Bhutan. Notice anything those first 3 have in common, Kook?

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
possibly says:Great job Obama! I’m sorry, are you crediting Obama for orchestrating this? Are you kidding me!

Well, the Obama caliphate, at least.

Now that the Egyptian protesters have gone into the streets, will the American media stop calling American citizens Teabaggers?

That will be the true test. :)

Judge Mental said:
Precisely. It’s too soon to be characterizing this as a Berlin Wall moment.

It could never be a Berlin Wall moment. The Berlin Wall falling signaled the end of the Cold War, the Iron Curtain falling and the reunification of Germany. It was the moment that the Soviet Union surrendered. This might be characterized as being analogous to the Czech Velvet Revolution if the result is similar. We’ll have to wait and see about that. So far, all they’ve done is ejected the dictator.

The Real Royal King said:
In fairness, I was attacked by the shrill nincompoops in a string of their off-topic posts, but I agree this ought not be a left-right issue. In fact, with the exception of this who have the need to attack our President over everything, I think this is an issue on which we have something of a consensus as Americans. If what we have said about Iraq and Iran is true, and I think it largely is, we indeed ought to welcome this as a budding of freedom and democracy in a country which ought to be well-suited to support the same. I have in my heart and have for a long time had much affection and respect for the Egyptian people.

I agree about the not a left/right and so on, but the “I was attacked” was unnecessary and just furthers the nonsense. Ignore the attacks and insults. Trust me on this. It works.

In my work, I have been called names that are truly reprehensible and I never react to them. Ever. See, when someone insults me and I don’t respond, they end up looking like the fool. Try it.

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
possibly says:
Great job Obama!

I’m sorry, are you crediting Obama for orchestrating this? Are you kidding me!

@mikeallen “TOP DEM. OFFICIAL: ‘Great news for admin/president..a potentially decisive affirmation of his leadership on the int. stage’.”

say what?

Glad to see someone gave a thumbs down about Hitler being thrown out.

Royal Dimwit says:

I was attacked by the shrill nincompoops in a string of their off-topic posts,

Who’s playing victim now?

And Sara,
It’s pathetic. Of course, those on our side called this days ago. No matter what happened, Obama would get credit for anything good. They are so predictable.

This is a great day for the Egyptian people! Now bracing for the future. It will be interesting to see how Mubarak supporters and other corrupt dictatorships receive this news. I wonder what the Saudi response to this will be.

The celebration will not be complete until a real democratic government is in place.

However, I have to wonder how Anderson Cooper feels missing out on history as it happens. Ivan Watson, Fred Pleitgen, Ben Wedeman, Nic Robertson, and Arwa Damon did a masterful job covering this story and deserve a lot of credit. They really didn’t need any help.

Let Obama take the credit. When the MB takes over and the wars start in the ME, this will be all over his administration’s hands.

sarainitaly said:
a funny tweet:

jtLOL ‘Jim’ ‘Treacher’
If you’re excited about people-powered movements bringing social change as long as they’re not a bunch of teabaggers, #youmightbealiberal.

You should be the last one complaining, since you are enjoying the benefit of socialism in Italy.

@mikeallen “TOP DEM. OFFICIAL: ‘Great news for admin/president..a potentially decisive affirmation of his leadership on the int. stage’.”

And what are you talking about Mike? Obama couldn’t decide from day to day if Mubarak should stay or go so how does that make him a great leader?

WCinWI says:
Let Obama take the credit. When the MB takes over and the wars start in the ME, this will be all over his administration’s hands.

Of course, then the liberal media will spin it in Obama’s favor somehow. That is just how they roll.

Keeva said:
In my work

sorry, off topic – keeva, are you using the new photoshop 5? aren’t the new features awesome! i love the puppet warp and liquify tools.
ok, sorry, back on.

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
WCinWI says:
Let Obama take the credit. When the MB takes over and the wars start in the ME, this will be all over his administration’s hands.

Of course, then the liberal media will spin it in Obama’s favor somehow. That is just how they roll.

I want them to take credit for the higher gas prices too. I can’t wait for the spin on all of this.

I find it funny when Egypt is a society where they earn $2 a day, yet I just saw fireworks. Uhhhh, what?

sarainitaly said:
@jaketapper:cant find anyone in O admin who thinks whatever comes next will be better for U.S. interests than Mubarak was

:o|

This is not about “US interests” and the sooner we stop making this some kind of standard, the sooner we regain our respect in the world. This is about the Egyptian people freeing themselves from 30 years of brutal oppression.

Yeah – watch that treaty with Israel go up in smoke.

For a party that isn’t pro-war, you just welcomed the possibility Libs. I hope you own it.

sarainitaly said:
sorry, off topic – keeva, are you using the new photoshop 5? aren’t the new features awesome! i love the puppet warp and liquify tools.
ok, sorry, back on.

I love PS 5! The features make my job so much easier!

WCinWI said:
Now that the Egyptian protesters have gone into the streets, will the American media stop calling American citizens Teabaggers?

That will be the true test. :)

Yes, because those two things are closely related.

ProgLib said:
Yes, because those two things are closely related.

How’s the concept any different? Both people headed to the streets and see oppression as their enemy.

WCinWI and why does Obama praise the Egyptian people for doing it while calling them enemies when done in this country?

WCinWI said:
Yeah – watch that treaty with Israel go up in smoke.

For a party that isn’t pro-war, you just welcomed the possibility Libs. I hope you own it.

Challenge – can any of you go a single topic without somehow flinging the whole liberal/conservative, right/left, Dem/GOP thing into it? Any of you?

Keeva said:
Challenge – can any of you go a single topic without somehow flinging the whole liberal/conservative, right/left, Dem/GOP thing into it? Any of you?

No – not when you’re dealing with a religion that is pro-beheadings, killing for the sake of leaving a religion and anti-women’s rights. You want this to be some kumbaya moment. Well, it’s not. This is human life and death.

Keeva said:
Challenge – can any of you go a single topic without somehow flinging the whole liberal/conservative, right/left, Dem/GOP thing into it? Any of you?

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/562840/201102101920/What-Egyptians-Really-Do-Want.htm?

@senatus: Rubio: “This is an opportunity for the Egyptian people to chart a new, more hopeful and democratic future.”

WCinWI said:
Yeah – watch that treaty with Israel go up in smoke.

For a party that isn’t pro-war, you just welcomed the possibility Libs. I hope you own it.

Challenge – can any of you go a single topic without somehow flinging the whole liberal/conservative, right/left, Dem/GOP thing into it? Any of you?

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
WCinWI and why does Obama praise the Egyptian people for doing it while calling them enemies when done in this country?

You don’t see the difference between overthrowing a brutal dictator and protesting taxes and such? Seriously? I agree that the administration over reacts to the Tea Party, but I don’t recall anyone being shot by the secret police over it.

Again, this is not about anything except freedom for the Egyptian people and anew democracy. How can you all miss this obvious point?

So Keeva, you aren’t troubled by the fact that Obama refers to political opponents as enemies? NO ONE is suggesting he’s akin to Mubarak, we are just noticing the double standard by him.

From Tapper:

Taking A Clear-Eyed Look at the Obama Administration’s Full Two-Year Record on Reform in Egypt

An accounting of the full two years of President Obama’s policy towards Egypt – prior to January 25, 2011 – may be in order.

As ably covered by the Washington Post’s Fact Checker – and former State Department reporter – Glenn Kessler, the Obama administration was far more quiet on the need for Egypt to engage in serious political reform, at least publicly, than the Bush administration.“No matter what was said in private, or how forcefully, the public message sent by the Obama administration over the past two years was that democracy and human rights in Egypt was not a top priority,” Kessler writes. “When given the opportunity to use the biggest megaphone in the world–the voice of the president of the United States–the words were whispered, if said at all.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/02/taking-a-clear-eyed-look-at-the-obama-administrations-full-two-year-record-on-reform-in-egypt.html

Keeva said:
Challenge – can any of you go a single topic without somehow flinging the whole liberal/conservative, right/left, Dem/GOP thing into it? Any of you?

You don’t see the difference between overthrowing a brutal dictator and protesting taxes and such? Seriously? I agree that the administration over reacts to the Tea Party, but I don’t recall anyone being shot by the secret police over it.

Again, this is not about anything except freedom for the Egyptian people and anew democracy. How can you all miss this obvious point?

When the DoJ refused to prosecute The Black Panthers, they pretty much said that intimidation tactics were ok. Who cares if it was a shot or not? It’s the same concept.

Also, we’re dealing with facts. Democracy is only good when political organizations are already formed. Do you not get that concept? It’s like if America had a dictator and only the Tea Party had a formed political organization. I don’t get why Libs can’t understand this concept.

I fear for Israel. And I fear for our gas prices. And I fear for the Egyptian people.

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
So Keeva, you aren’t troubled by the fact that Obama refers to political opponents as enemies? NO ONE is suggesting he’s akin to Mubarak, we are just noticing the double standard by him.

His rhetoric bothers me, but the same rhetoric spews from the other side, so it is just that…rhetoric. I believe the CPAC convention is full of such rhetoric. Does that bother you?

Both sides engage in this kind of reckless language and then only point to the other side. And both sides are disingenuous and equally repugnant.

WCinWI said:
No – not when you’re dealing with a religion that is pro-beheadings, killing for the sake of leaving a religion and anti-women’s rights. You want this to be some kumbaya moment. Well, it’s not. This is human life and death.

Umm. Perhaps you missed the part where most of the protesters want a secular state. This is not an Islamist deal like Iran. More facts, less sad spin.

Both sides engage in this kind of reckless language and then only point to the other side. And both sides are disingenuous and equally repugnant.

Keeva,
Point to me when Bush EVER called politcal opponents enemies. We are talking about someone who is President and not just random people. If you can’t see the difference, then I can’t help you.

Keeva said:
Umm. Perhaps you missed the part where most of the protesters want a secular state. This is not an Islamist deal like Iran. More facts, less sad spin.

Read what I said – there not formed political organizations, other than the MB. Find me an article that talks about a political operation that can battle the MB. Then we can talk. Until then, Egypt will suffer.

Keeva said:
His rhetoric bothers me, but the same rhetoric spews from the other side, so it is just that…rhetoric. I believe the CPAC convention is full of such rhetoric. Does that bother you?

Both sides engage in this kind of reckless language and then only point to the other side. And both sides are disingenuous and equally repugnant.

When you’re dealing with a gov’t that seeks to oppress its people……then yes, I’d like to call them enemies of the US. Have I seen Barack or any of the Libs talk about serious cuts, anything having to do with entitlement reform, freeing up access to American oil, etc? No.

He’s an ideologue.

WCinWI said:
Read what I said – there not formed political organizations, other than the MB. Find me an article that talks about a political operation that can battle the MB. Then we can talk. Until then, Egypt will suffer.

*they’re

HAHA, listening to Biden speak about this. He says it’s NOT acceptable to use violence and intimidation against peaceful protestors.

Hey Joe, can you tell that to your SEIU buddies that beat people up and bite off their fingers for peacefully protesting. I don’t think they got the memo.

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
HAHA, listening to Biden speak about this. He says it’s NOT acceptable to use violence and intimidation against peaceful protestors.

Hey Joe, can you tell that to your SEIU buddies that beat people up and bite off their fingers for peacefully protesting. I don’t think they got the memo.

Or the SEIU folks that personally went to someone’s house (someone in the banking industry, wife is a Fox contributor) and scared the child in the house.

I think you are referring to Nina Easton. It happened in her neighborhood. That was shameful! Interestingly, the media pretty much ignored that story.

Keeva said:
Umm. Perhaps you missed the part where most of the protesters want a secular state. This is not an Islamist deal like Iran. More facts, less sad spin.

What the protesters want is going to be irrelevant if they don’t have a political apparatus in place to turn their desires into reality. As of now, they don’t, and we now have an Egypt with no civilian governance at all and the Defense Minister completely in charge with no definite end in sight. So, we’re right back to military dictatorship. Let’s hope it’s benevolent.

WCinWI said:
How’s the concept any different? Both people headed to the streets and see oppression as their enemy.

If you want to compare a civil unrest in response to an almost 30-year presidential term in a country that has been under emergency law rule for more than 40 years under the leadership of a man who undercut the country’s media to an uncentralized group protesting not-even three years of a presidential term that introduced controversial health care reform and economic stimulus, you can.

blurgh. said:
If you want to compare a civil unrest in response to an almost 30-year presidential term in a country that has been under emergency law rule for more than 40 years under the leadership of a man who undercut the country’s media to an uncentralized group protesting not-even three years of a presidential term that introduced controversial health care reform and economic stimulus, you can.

You’re right…it is different.

The Tea Party isn’t into:
-beheadings
-policies against women’s rights
-oppression of religion
-suicide bombings of Jews

WCinWI said:
You’re right…it is different.

The Tea Party isn’t into:
-beheadings
-policies against women’s rights
-oppression of religion
-suicide bombings of Jews

And Egyptians are?

WCinWI said:
How’s the concept any different? Both people headed to the streets and see oppression as their enemy.

Yeah, no difference at all between millions of people rising up against a dictator with dozens ending up getting killed, and a few thousand nutjobs here against a democratically elected president. Any police crackdowns at tea party rallies lately?
Same thing.

blurgh. said:
And Egyptians are?

We’ll find out….all I know is that the Egyptians don’t like America. I linked the article above.

It’s surprising that you don’t know the tenets/beliefs of their premier political organization. You might want to read up on it.

ProgLib said:
Yeah, no difference at all between millions of people rising up against a dictator with dozens ending up getting killed, and a few thousand nutjobs here against a democratically elected president. Any police crackdowns at tea party rallies lately?
Same thing.

If you’re a liberal that likes war, then you got your wish. As I said, we’ll see what the people want. They don’t have the political structures set up down for the democracy desired….or maybe they want the MB. Only time will tell.

Oppression is oppression.

WCinWI said:
You’re right…it is different.

The Tea Party isn’t into:
…

-oppression of religion
…

Oppression of their own religion maybe. Others, most definitely.

blurgh. said:
And Egyptians are?

Among highlights from the Pew poll:

• 49% of Egyptians say Islam plays only a “small role” in public affairs under President Hosni Mubarak, while 95% prefer the religion play a “large role in politics.”

• 84% favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim faith.

• 82% support stoning adulterers.

• 77% think thieves should have their hands cut off.

• 54% support a law segregating women from men in the workplace.

• 54% believe suicide bombings that kill civilians can be justified.

• Nearly half support the terrorist group Hamas.

• 30% have a favorable opinion of Hezbollah.

• 20% maintain positive views of al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden.

• 82% of Egyptians dislike the U.S. — the highest unfavorable rating among the 18 Muslim nations Pew surveyed.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/562840/201102101920/What-Egyptians-Really-Do-Want.htm?

blurgh. said:
And Egyptians are?

http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1874/egypt-protests-democracy-islam-influence-politics-islamic-extremism

We could always do what William Shatner advised in Airplane II. “Ignore it and hope it goes away.”

oops, didn’t see yours first.

WCinWI said:
We’ll find out….all I know is that the Egyptians don’t like America. I linked the article above.

It’s surprising that you don’t know the tenets/beliefs of their premier political organization. You might want to read up on it.

A lot of countries don’t like America. That doesn’t make them terrorist or terrorist sympathizers. And while the role that the Muslim Brotherhood plays in the post-Murbarak era is certainly relevant, I have no idea how it’s going to play. Neither do you. Frankly, neither of us have a horse in the race.

All this hyperventilation about extremist Muslims and few recognize that this display of peaceful revolution happened in predominantly Muslim country.

George C said:
Oh good , Canada has weighed in . LOL

I’m a dual citizen you idiot!

blurgh. said:
A lot of countries don’t like America. That doesn’t make them terrorist or terrorist sympathizers. And while the role that the Muslim Brotherhood plays in the post-Murbarak era is certainly relevant, I have no idea how it’s going to play. Neither do you. Frankly, neither of us have a horse in the race.

All this hyperventilation about extremist Muslims and few recognize that this display of peaceful revolution happened in predominantly Muslim country.

When one of our allies is part of the mix, then yes, we have a horse in the race and the administration better be on the ground, setting up this horse. That’s how this whole ally-ally relationship works.

If you can tell me of a political apparatus that is already in place, other than the MB, then I can understand that this could be a peaceful transition of representative government. However, if you can’t, then please tell me how you can’t tell the future direction of this region.

WCinWI said:
Among highlights from the Pew poll:

sarainitaly said:
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1874/egypt-protests-democracy-islam-influence-politics-islamic-extremism

So what’s the takeaway? That Murbarak’s police state was the only thing holding Egypt back from it joining the Axis of Evil? Egypt has as much a right to self-determination as the United States did and does.

blurgh. said:
So what’s the takeaway? That Murbarak’s police state was the only thing holding Egypt back from it joining the Axis of Evil? Egypt has as much a right to self-determination as the United States did and does.

If you believe in war, yes.

WCinWI said:
When one of our allies is part of the mix, then yes, we have a horse in the race and the administration better be on the ground, setting up this horse. That’s how this whole ally-ally relationship works.

If you can tell me of a political apparatus that is already in place, other than the MB, then I can understand that this could be a peaceful transition of representative government. However, if you can’t, then please tell me how you can’t tell the future direction of this region.

There are plenty of political parties in play in Egyptian politics. Are there any who have received as much attention in the Western media as the Muslim Brotherhood? No, there aren’t. Can I break down the parties, their platforms and how receptive the general population is to any of them? No, I can’t. But I know that Murbarak’s opponents have done what they set out to do: regain their given right to democratically elect a leader representative of its citizenry. What happens next is not for us to assume and for them to decide.

WCinWI said:
If you believe in war, yes.

It’s not conditional based on what serves the United States and its allies or not. The United States can decide to recognize a country’s leadership or not, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

blurgh. said:
There are plenty of political parties in play in Egyptian politics. Are there any who have received as much attention in the Western media as the Muslim Brotherhood? No, there aren’t. Can I break down the parties, their platforms and how receptive the general population is to any of them? No, I can’t. But I know that Murbarak’s opponents have done what they set out to do: regain their given right to democratically elect a leader representative of its citizenry. What happens next is not for us to assume and for them to decide.

It’s not conditional based on what serves the United States and its allies or not. The United States can decide to recognize a country’s leadership or not, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Then name the political parties. Plain and simple. Name at least a few.

WCinWI said:
Then name the political parties. Plain and simple. Name at least a few.

I’m not Egyptian and cannot neatly package Egyptian politics for you because I don’t have a comprehensive knowledge of political powers in Egypt. I understand a variety of opposition groups (some secular, some not) were involved in the uprising.

I seem to remember a story in the media not too long ago that conservatives were upset at how Ron Reagan was describing the Tea Party for international media and how said media was running with the story that Reagan’s son was ashamed of the Tea Party (maybe it was on Hot Air?). Anyway, international media has a way of misinterpreting or simply misunderstanding political affairs abroad. I’m willing to say that I don’t fully know the political repercussions of the Egyptian revolution, but I can say that I respect it for its tenacity and mostly pacifistic effort to unseat a police state-supporting, 30-year sitting president.

WCinWI said:
If you’re a liberal that likes war, then you got your wish. As I said, we’ll see what the people want. They don’t have the political structures set up down for the democracy desired….or maybe they want the MB. Only time will tell.

Oppression is oppression.

Who is oppressing you? You have the right to do and say whatever you want, your representatives are in Congress and are heard in news media every day all day. The two situations are not even close.

blurgh. said:
I’m not Egyptian and cannot neatly package Egyptian politics for you because I don’t have a comprehensive knowledge of political powers in Egypt. I understand a variety of opposition groups (some secular, some not) were involved in the uprising.

I seem to remember a story in the media not too long ago that conservatives were upset at how Ron Reagan was describing the Tea Party for international media and how said media was running with the story that Reagan’s son was ashamed of the Tea Party (maybe it was on Hot Air?). Anyway, international media has a way of misinterpreting or simply misunderstanding political affairs abroad. I’m willing to say that I don’t fully know the political repercussions of the Egyptian revolution, but I can say that I respect it for its tenacity and mostly pacifistic effort to unseat a police state-supporting, 30-year sitting president.

Conservatives are always mad when Ron Reagan (the liberal son) opens his yapper.

All conservatives have said is that there are not the political organizations in place for true democracy to occur. Only time will tell. Our watch should be what happens in the rest of the region.

ProgLib said:
Who is oppressing you? You have the right to do and say whatever you want, your representatives are in Congress and are heard in news media every day all day. The two situations are not even close.

Liberals. We’re going to disagree on the level of oppression. That’s fine. I’ve said numerous times that only time will tell. For liberals to think this is all hunky dory is just a false equivalence. That’s all.

We will see if this is Carter redux.

WCinWI said:
All conservatives have said is that there are not the political organizations in place for true democracy to occur. Only time will tell. Our watch should be what happens in the rest of the region.

But what’s true democracy, then? A state that isn’t governed or motivated by religious belief? Or just extremist Islamic belief?

WCinWI said:
Liberals. We’re going to disagree on the level of oppression. That’s fine. I’ve said numerous times that only time will tell. For liberals to think this is all hunky dory is just a false equivalence. That’s all.

We will see if this is Carter redux.

Wait, liberals are oppressing you?

blurgh. said:
But what’s true democracy, then? A state that isn’t governed or motivated by religious belief? Or just extremist Islamic belief?

When you have a religion that is anti-women’s rights, pro beheadings, pro-killing when you leave the faith, pro-killing of Jews, then yes, I fear for Israel when their political party is the apparatus that is the most in place.

You can disagree with that. That’s where the conservative movement is coming from though.

SilentSam said:
I’m a dual citizen you idiot!

LOL

WCinWI said:
When you have a religion that is anti-women’s rights, pro beheadings, pro-killing when you leave the faith, pro-killing of Jews, then yes, I fear for Israel when their political party is the apparatus that is the most in place.

You can disagree with that. That’s where the conservative movement is coming from though.

Almost every conservative movement is willing to parse individual rights for the sake of religious belief. That’s not unique to country or religion. The degree of punishment? Sure, but if that’s the only thing that’s subjective value, then we’ve got a problem.

Again, just because the Muslim Brotherhood dominates the headlines, that doesn’t mean that it is the only alternative to Mubarak. The brotherhood didn’t create or sustain the revolution single-handedly, so I have a reasonable doubt that they are the only opposition group in play.

blurgh. said:
Almost every conservative movement is willing to parse individual rights for the sake of religious belief. That’s not unique to country or religion. The degree of punishment? Sure, but if that’s the only thing that’s subjective value, then we’ve got a problem.

Again, just because the Muslim Brotherhood dominates the headlines, that doesn’t mean that it is the only alternative to Mubarak. The brotherhood didn’t create or sustain the revolution single-handedly, so I have a reasonable doubt that they are the only opposition group in play.

Stop equating one religious belief system to another. Stop equating a religion based on killing various sectors of people and oppressing women to another.

Who cares who started the revolution? That doesn’t matter. What matters are the political organizations that are set-up. If you can tell me of other political organizations set-up and not just various random people interested in being the next leader, that would be great. Point me to that article or that list.

Okay, well, one conservative group doesn’t recognize the rights of women or homosexuals their rights as women or homosexuals because of its religious beliefs and another conservative doesn’t recognize the rights of women or homosexuals because of its religious beliefs and is willing to execute them. Yeah, one is definitely worse than the other, but in the grand scheme of things…

It matters who starts the revolution because the idea is that they will see it to its end. Are existing platforms and parties relevant? Of course they are; they can more easily co-opt the movement. Tea Party members complained in the 2010 cycle that Republicans were co-opting the movement. Same could happen with the Egyptian protesters. But you seem pretty sure of yourself; you must know more about Egyptian politics than the Egyptians who don’t see the Muslim Brotherhood as the international threat you have so studiously studied it to be.

blurgh. said:
Okay, well, one conservative group doesn’t recognize the rights of women or homosexuals their rights as women or homosexuals because of its religious beliefs and another conservative doesn’t recognize the rights of women or homosexuals because of its religious beliefs and is willing to execute them. Yeah, one is definitely worse than the other, but in the grand scheme of things…

It matters who starts the revolution because the idea is that they will see it to its end. Are existing platforms and parties relevant? Of course they are; they can more easily co-opt the movement. Tea Party members complained in the 2010 cycle that Republicans were co-opting the movement. Same could happen with the Egyptian protesters. But you seem pretty sure of yourself; you must know more about Egyptian politics than the Egyptians who don’t see the Muslim Brotherhood as the international threat you have so studiously studied it to be.

That first paragraph was just silly.

The second – I’ve said MANY times….we’ll see. But if I and other conservatives are right, this will be Obama’s legacy.

WCinWI said:
That first paragraph was just silly.

Yeah, it got away from me, but the point remains that conservative parties of any ilk generally don’t much appreciate much less recognize women’s or LGBT rights. It just so happens that theocracies tend to execute them in addition to treating them as second-class citizens.

WCinWI said:
The second – I’ve said MANY times….we’ll see. But if I and other conservatives are right, this will be Obama’s legacy.

Obama did nothing to take credit for what’s happening in Cairo, but conservatives can blame him for the aftermath.

Unrelated: here’s some cake; you can eat it, too.

blurgh. said:
Yeah, it got away from me, but the point remains that conservative parties of any ilk generally don’t much appreciate much less recognize women’s or LGBT rights. It just so happens that theocracies tend to execute them in addition to treating them as second-class citizens.

Obama did nothing to take credit for what’s happening in Cairo, but conservatives can blame him for the aftermath.

Unrelated: here’s some cake; you can eat it, too.

No – I think you have that wrong. Women’s groups don’t have it in it for women’s rights. As a woman, I can attest to that. As a man (which I’m sure you are), you can’t. Simple as that. As for as the LGBT movement, there are no such thing as LGBT rights. People have rights.

Unrelated: I have no clue why you said this line…..it’s unknown what will happen in the ME.

WCinWI said:
As for as the LGBT movement, there are no such thing as LGBT rights. People have rights.

I’m sure you don’t mean that the way it sounds.

When a minority is denied equality and fair treatment then it’s reasonable to refer to the rights of that particular group

CosmosDan said:
When a minority is denied equality and fair treatment then it’s reasonable to refer to the rights of that particular group

Behavior does not make one a minority.

Pablo said:
Behavior does not make one a minority.

Unless you’re claiming gays and lesbians are not a minority your post is pointless. If that is what you’re claiming you’re completely wrong.
webster;
: a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment

WCinWI said:
No – I think you have that wrong. Women’s groups don’t have it in it for women’s rights. As a woman, I can attest to that. As a man (which I’m sure you are), you can’t. Simple as that. As for as the LGBT movement, there are no such thing as LGBT rights. People have rights.

You’re right: people have rights. And when people have those rights taken away from then, laws can be created to ensure that those rights aren’t violated. A woman’s right make her own decisions about medical treatment, gays and lesbians having fair and equal access to housing, my little sister being able to receive comparable payment for comparable quality work that a male colleague of hers does, my gay friend from college being able to see his boyfriend of five years if god forbid one of them is hospitalized. As a woman, you have as much a right to happiness and health as any man, and gays have as much a right to both as straight people do.

And Christians or Muslims have every right to disagree with either, but once either starts toying around with defining who has access to what based on religious dogma, ignoring the fact that–as you said–”people have rights,” then I reserve my right to scrutinize the legitimacy of that point of view as it plays in a free society.

WCinWI said:
Unrelated: I have no clue why you said this line…..it’s unknown what will happen in the ME.

Because apparently Obama did nothing to deserve praise, but everything to deserve scorn, symptomatic of what Malkin likes to refer as derangement syndrome.