Good to report this, but I still don’t see you defending the RIGHT of the people to OPPOSE this Mosque.

Libs have a hard time grasping this issue. So maybe this will help.

In Illinois many years ago, 8 people were killed in a fast food restaurant. The owners had the right to reopen his restaurant after the police were through with it. They owned the property and the building and yet they never reopened that location again. In fact they tore it down. They knew the people that lived there did not want the restaurant to remind them of the killings.
Does anything sound familiar here?

The clerk at a gas staion and convience store located near my house was shot and killed. I saw no reason not to open that station again yet the owner never reopened and the building has been torn down.
Some people are sensitive to what the local people think even though they have the RIGHT to do whatever they want.

If the Muslims that own that site in N.Y. want to open a Mosque, they can anytime they want, it is just not going to happen at that location.

That Mosque will NEVER open. The RIGHT of the people to express themselves will be upheld.

gordonbloyershow said:
Good to report this, but I still don’t see you defending the RIGHT of the people to OPPOSE this Mosque.

Do we really have to, every time we disagree, say, “Well, I defend your right to say it.” Seriously, I disagree with a lot of what you say, so I have to say every time, “Well, you have a right to say it.” Of course, you have the right to say it, of course you have the right to disagree. Is Mediaite saying that those opposed of this plan should be locked up for saying it? It’s pretty much implied if you are talking about issues of the speech that we all agree we are within the right to say it. Are you going to complain about this every time someone disagrees with you? Could someone from Mediaite put a small disclaimer on the home page that says, “If you disagree with us, you are well within your rights to,” so we don’t have to hear this anymore.

gordonbloyershow said:
Libs have a hard time grasping this issue. So maybe this will help.

In Illinois many years ago, 8 people were killed in a fast food restaurant. The owners had the right to reopen his restaurant after the police were through with it. They owned the property and the building and yet they never reopened that location again. In fact they tore it down. They knew the people that lived there did not want the restaurant to remind them of the killings.
Does anything sound familiar here?

The clerk at a gas staion and convience store located near my house was shot and killed. I saw no reason not to open that station again yet the owner never reopened and the building has been torn down.
Some people are sensitive to what the local people think even though they have the RIGHT to do whatever they want.

If the Muslims that own that site in N.Y. want to open a Mosque, they can anytime they want, it is just not going to happen at that location.

That Mosque will NEVER open. The RIGHT of the people to express themselves will be upheld.

Seriously, that is a pretty bad analogy. First, where is the freedom of religion issue? That is a pretty big part of this debate. I’m sure no one was saying, “Well, by not opening, then I’m pretty sure that they are violating the freedom of fast food issue that this country was built on.” Actually for that first one to be properly analogous, it would have to involve the building the twin towers again on Ground Zero and not doing it because they were worried about people being hurt by the building of the twin towers. Now, it’s an analogy. Now, imagine if the Ford Theater wasn’t reopened or the Dallas book depository (it’s a museum now, right?) weren’t opened. That would be closer to your second analogy than the building of the mosque/cultural center. Again, the analogies are not good analogies.

And the mosque will open. There is no way to legally stop it. The only way for it not to open is if the Imam decides that he will move to another location, but then, you are saying that Muslims are basically good, and therefore will bow to the wishes of the community. Is that what you’re saying?

The thing that blows my mind so often is that anyone on this
planet could possibly give a damn what Mike Barnicle or Bob Beckel
thinks about anything!

Plexiglass, I think Gordon’s point is that those who question the motives of building the mosque are painted at loons who aren’t for the first amendment. All you have to do is look at the blogs posted here in the last few days to see that (if you actually want to see it, that is).

gordonbloyershow said:
The RIGHT of the people to express themselves will be upheld.

And one last thing, the mosque opening or not opening has nothing to do with the RIGHT of the people to express themselves being upheld. Right now, they are being upheld. They are expressing themselves, and no one is going to jail because of it. Again, shitty analogy.

Now, perhaps you could say the RIGHT of the majority to dictate everything will be upheld would be a better thing to say. It connects.

MichelleF said:
Plexiglass, I think Gordon’s point is that those who question the motives of building the mosque are painted at loons who aren’t for the first amendment. All you have to do is look at the blogs posted here in the last few days to see that (if you actually want to see it, that is).

So, everyone is saying that Congress should take away their right to say they oppose the mosque? That’s what rights are. Not whether I think you’re a loon or not. You have the right to say whatever you want. I have the right to say you are a loon (I’m not saying you are, so don’t think I’m attacking, it’s just my point). That’s what rights are.

Oh, and if they are saying to take away the right to disagree, right or left or moderate (moderates usually won’t say that though), then yes, they are wrong.

Perm, the libs here are attacking everyone that opposes the site. They are calling them names. They are saying that there opposition has no merit. Don’t you find it strange that they think the building ot the site is a done deal and that everyone else should shut up. Isn’t that what Bloomy has said? If the Mosque is “shooted down” it will be a bad day for America. Shut up it is the RIGHT that they can build. Those statement say that you don’t have a right to oppose it. They are saying that if you convince these “moderate” Muslims not to build it you did something wrong. Should I go on and on or do you get it yet?
I don’t care about that crap about I will defend your right to say it, that usually means that they don’t.
These clowns won’t say that anyway because they don’t mean it. If they believed that they would not present the other side with total disdain.

Bob Beckel has a history of saying Absurd Things!

I can say that I would never diminish someone’s opinion that the structure shouldn’t be built. There are certainly a large number of very reasonable arguments for this (many expressed from 9/11 families).

But the rhetoric and politicization is wrong. I think Chris Christie had a very good take on it.

Grammar police correction……If the Mosque is shouted down

Gordon, your analogy makes absolutely no sense. There is no comparison between the mosque and the restaurant near your home. And why does Mediaite have to say they defend your right to oppose anything. This is America, for crying out loud! People have a right to voice their opinion, no matter how stupid that opinion might be.

“At some point, I know it’s sensitive here in New York and New Jersey, at some point we are going to have to get over 9/11. We’re going to have to get over it!”

I suggest we do that as soon as we defeat radical Islam.

For the record, Steve, I wasn’t referring to you. I don’t always agree with you, but I at least respect you. Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for Glynnis, Tommy, Fran, and Colby. They mock and ridicule those who disagree with them.

What Steve said: “Gingrich’s divorces have nothing to do with the issue at hand”

What Steve meant: But we’re gonna show the clip anyway because it furthers Mediaites cause of smearing the opponents of the Ground Zero mosque. Besides, if there is anyone we hate more Sarah Palin, it’s Newt Gingrich! Contract with America my ass!!

Gordon says: “I don’t care about that crap about I will defend your right to say it, that usually means that they don’t.
These clowns won’t say that anyway because they don’t mean it. If they believed that they would not present the other side with total disdain.”
=================================================

Which means you speak out of both sides of your mouth (not for the first time….). First you complain because this site does not state that they defend the rights of people to say they oppose the mosque. Now you “don’t give a crap about I will defend your right to say it.” (Most of the other sentences in your screed I couldn’t understand due to grammatical errors.) You are being a hypocrite — and actually un-American. And to say only liberals don’t mean something is quite ingenuous. And is contradicted by your two comments above.

gordonbloyershow said:
Perm, the libs here are attacking everyone that opposes the site. They are calling them names. They are saying that there opposition has no merit. Don’t you find it strange that they think the building ot the site is a done deal and that everyone else should shut up. Isn’t that what Bloomy has said? If the Mosque is “shooted down” it will be a bad day for America. Shut up it is the RIGHT that they can build. Those statement say that you don’t have a right to oppose it. They are saying that if you convince these “moderate” Muslims not to build it you did something wrong. Should I go on and on or do you get it yet?
I don’t care about that crap about I will defend your right to say it, that usually means that they don’t.
These clowns won’t say that anyway because they don’t mean it. If they believed that they would not present the other side with total disdain.

I think you don’t get it. Look, Bloomberg is saying, “Done deal, shut up.” (probably paraphrasing there) but then he’s not sending out police to arrest everyone for saying, “No.” The voices are still shouting, they are still being heard. The right is not being taken away. Now, does this mean that what the opposition is saying is, “Hey, if the moderate Muslims open up a mosque, then, well, you guys weren’t wrong. It’s cool.” Or are they telling those who support the building are wrong, or un-American? Does that mean they’ve taken away my right to support it? Are you saying that you don’t treat the opposite with utter disdain yourself? You call the dems un-American, but aren’t you doing what you said is wrong? Is it because you are doing a “can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” mentality? Look, I have attacked here on this site too. Sure, moderates will do that. I’ve done it when I feel I have been attacked on a personal level. Political discourse in this country is shit. I agree. It’s limited to name calling (see how my name is plexiglass according to MichelleF) and personal attacks. The Ad Hominem fallacy, most used on message boards. But seriously, because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t mean your rights have been violated. Now, if the person disagreeing with you, takes away your freedom, then, yes, you are being violated. Is that happening in this case?

alamo2 says:
August 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm alamo2(Quote)
0 0
Gordon, your analogy makes absolutely no sense.

I think it’s a great anology in the context of respecting the land and the history of the land you are building on. Gordon isn’t saying the incident that happened at the restaurant equated 9/11, he was pointing out the effect the incident had on those that lived around him.

If I’m being honest, I think you lefties intentionally miss the point.

Perm, you seem to have a problem reading plain English. You seem to want to covert what people say into what you wanted them to say.

Perm said………..
And the mosque will open. There is no way to legally stop it. The only way for it not to open is if the Imam decides that he will move to another location, but then, you are saying that Muslims are basically good, and therefore will bow to the wishes of the community. Is that what you’re saying?

First you have no idea what you are talking about. There are many LEGAL ways to stop the Mosque. The New York legislature could designate the site a historical landmark and stop any development. Second the Congress could also do the same.
No I am NOT saying the Mulims are basically good and will BOW to the wishes of the community. I am saying they may be smart enought to realize that no good will come of this if they force the issue.
If YOU were smart enough YOU would know that this Mosque will NEVER be built. Problem is that you don’t have a clue about this issue and you would go down in flames just like Obama if you were in his position.

It will not be long before I am proven right. Then don’t ever comment on another post about something you have no idea about.

MichelleF said:
alamo2 says:
August 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm alamo2(Quote)
0 0
Gordon, your analogy makes absolutely no sense.

I think it’s a great anology in the context of respecting the land and the history of the land you are building on. Gordon isn’t saying the incident that happened at the restaurant equated 9/11, he was pointing out the effect the incident had on those that lived around him.

If I’m being honest, I think you lefties intentionally miss the point.

No, not at all. It’s not a good analogy. It simplifies, it forgets to add in the freedom of religion argument, one of our most important American ideals. A proper analogy would also have a different fast food restaurant or something built a block or two from where the incident occurred. Of course, I get the sensitivity issue. I’m not heartless. But do you get the American ideal issue? I don’t think I need to even give an analogy for that.

Spelling police……..convert.

gordonbloyershow said:
Good to report this, but I still don’t see you defending the RIGHT of the people to OPPOSE this Mosque. Libs have a hard time grasping this issue. So maybe this will help. In Illinois many years ago, 8 people were killed in a fast food restaurant. The owners had the right to reopen his restaurant after the police were through with it. They owned the property and the building and yet they never reopened that location again. In fact they tore it down. They knew the people that lived there did not want the restaurant to remind them of the killings.Does anything sound familiar here? The clerk at a gas staion and convience store located near my house was shot and killed. I saw no reason not to open that station again yet the owner never reopened and the building has been torn down.Some people are sensitive to what the local people think even though they have the RIGHT to do whatever they want. If the Muslims that own that site in N.Y. want to open a Mosque, they can anytime they want, it is just not going to happen at that location. That Mosque will NEVER open. The RIGHT of the people to express themselves will be upheld.

once again, you’ve copied and pasted your same post from another article.

apples and oranges, the proposed center is not on the WTC site and nobody involved had anything to do with 9/11

and I’m not sure where you heard that the rights of people to be heard were being taken away, this is not a conversation about 1st amendement rights…you’re way out in left field on this one

As I understand it ( I have never been there) there is plenty of acrege near the field in
Shanksville, Pa. Just as well build a Mosque there as well.
I understand property is not that expensive, should be easy to re- zone it, get the permits
and GO!!
Keep it simple here !! Five, six stories! That ‘LL Do !!!

gordonbloyershow said:
It will not be long before I am proven right. Then don’t ever comment on another post about something you have no idea about.

So are you removing my right to disagree? Hypocrite much?

MichelleF said:
alamo2 says:August 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm alamo2(Quote)0 0Gordon, your analogy makes absolutely no sense. I think it’s a great anology in the context of respecting the land and the history of the land you are building on. Gordon isn’t saying the incident that happened at the restaurant equated 9/11, he was pointing out the effect the incident had on those that lived around him. If I’m being honest, I think you lefties intentionally miss the point.

Michelle, if you are going to quote me, please don’t do it out of context. You really do not respond to my critique. However, I will defend your right to disagree with me:)

Michelle, libs don’t WANT to understand. They believe they are the ONLY ones that are right. That is why they never get the gun control issue. They always set up a strawman. This issue has NOTHING to do with freedom of religion. The ONLY way that would be an issue is if the people wanted to stop all Mosques.

Building the Mosque there would have never even been contemplated if President Bush were President!

“I am saying they may be smart enought to realize that no good will come of this if they force the issue”

the only people forcing this issue are those opposed to it, you happened to get alerted to it too late in the game. The question of making it a heritage site is unfounded. The city would not have let them move forward if that was in question.

capitlizing specific words doesn’t actually make them come true either…sorry about that. Just like clicking your heels and saying “there’s no place like home” won’t transport you to Kansas.

Once again, where were you when this process started years ago? Why did you wait until the city approved it before you got all “sensitive” to it?

Spine, you are a loon. I can cut and paste any comments I want. I want to make sure all you loons keep reading it. You can keep repeating that it is apples and oranges, that won’t sell. It is right on target and that is what drives you nuts nuts.

gordonbloyershow said:
Good to report this, but I still don’t see you defending the RIGHT of the people to OPPOSE this Mosque.

Libs have a hard time grasping this issue. So maybe this will help.

In Illinois many years ago, 8 people were killed in a fast food restaurant. The owners had the right to reopen his restaurant after the police were through with it. They owned the property and the building and yet they never reopened that location again. In fact they tore it down. They knew the people that lived there did not want the restaurant to remind them of the killings.
Does anything sound familiar here?

The clerk at a gas staion and convience store located near my house was shot and killed. I saw no reason not to open that station again yet the owner never reopened and the building has been torn down.
Some people are sensitive to what the local people think even though they have the RIGHT to do whatever they want.

If the Muslims that own that site in N.Y. want to open a Mosque, they can anytime they want, it is just not going to happen at that location.

That Mosque will NEVER open. The RIGHT of the people to express themselves will be upheld.

Well, yeah, a mosque will never open there, it’s a community center.

Happy Ramadan!

gordonbloyershow said:
Michelle, libs don’t WANT to understand. They believe they are the ONLY ones that are right. That is why they never get the gun control issue. They always set up a strawman. This issue has NOTHING to do with freedom of religion. The ONLY way that would be an issue is if the people wanted to stop all Mosques.

Yes Gordon, it is always the “libs” who don’t WANT to understand. (Thanks for putting want in capitol letters so we get the idea….) We always set up strawmen. Yada, yada, yada. And that is why you set up the strawman gun control issue, which has no place here????? And that is why you never acknowledge right wingers saying anything stupid? And your argument that this issue has NOTHING to do with freedom of religion because it is only an issue if one wants to stop all mosques: That is patently absurd. From a logic standpoint, it is flat out wrong, and insipid. Trying to stop a church or a synagogue or mosque in one place certainly can be a freedom of religion issue. It depends on its context, which is something missing from most of your arguments. You wear blinders, never seeking the truth, never wanting intelligent discourse. And your website certainly proves that.

juan said:
Building the Mosque there would have never even been contemplated if President Bush were President!

ORLY?

More than any other American President, President George Bush has made more comments about Islam than any other president. Here is yet another compilation of the President’s quotes on Islam. Add this to your collection when you have to debate Muslims that favor Democrats. What have Democratic administrations ever said?
PRESIDENT BUSH’S QUOTES ON ISLAM

In the President’s Words: Respecting Islam

The United States is a nation dedicated to religious tolerance and freedom, and President Bush has acted to ensure that the world’s Muslims know that America appreciates and celebrates the traditions of Islam.

“Here in the United States our Muslim citizens are making many contributions in business, science and law, medicine and education, and in other fields. Muslim members of our Armed Forces and of my administration are serving their fellow Americans with distinction, upholding our nation’s ideals of liberty and justice in a world at peace.”
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr
The Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
December 5, 2002

“Over the past month, Muslims have fasted, taking no food or water during daylight hours, in order to refocus their minds on faith and redirect their hearts to charity. Muslims worldwide have stretched out a hand of mercy to those in need. Charity tables at which the poor can break their fast line the streets of cities and towns. And gifts of food and clothing and money are distributed to ensure that all share in God’s abundance. Muslims often invite members of other families to their evening iftar meals, demonstrating a spirit of tolerance.”
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr
The Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
December 5, 2002

“America treasures the relationship we have with our many Muslim friends, and we respect the vibrant faith of Islam which inspires countless individuals to lead lives of honesty, integrity, and morality. This year, may Eid also be a time in which we recognize the values of progress, pluralism, and acceptance that bind us together as a Nation and a global community. By working together to advance mutual understanding, we point the way to a brighter future for all.”
Presidential Message Eid al-Fitr
December 5, 2002

“Islam brings hope and comfort to millions of people in my country, and to more than a billion people worldwide. Ramadan is also an occasion to remember that Islam gave birth to a rich civilization of learning that has benefited mankind.”
President’s Eid al-Fitr Greeting to Muslims around the World
December 4, 2002

“Ours is a war not against a religion, not against the Muslim faith. But ours is a war against individuals who absolutely hate what America stands for, and hate the freedom of the Czech Republic. And therefore, we must work together to defend ourselves. And by remaining strong and united and tough, we’ll prevail.”
Press Conference by President Bush and President Havel of Czech Republic
Prague Castle, Prague, Czech Republic
November 20, 2002

“Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America.”
Remarks by President George W. Bush in a statement to reporters during a meeting with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan
The Oval Office, Washington, DC
November 13, 2002

“We see in Islam a religion that traces its origins back to God’s call on Abraham. We share your belief in God’s justice, and your insistence on man’s moral responsibility. We thank the many Muslim nations who stand with us against terror. Nations that are often victims of terror, themselves.”
President Hosts Iftaar Dinner
Remarks by the President at Iftaar Dinner
State Dining Room

“Islam is a vibrant faith. Millions of our fellow citizens are Muslim. We respect the faith. We honor its traditions. Our enemy does not. Our enemy doesn’t follow the great traditions of Islam. They’ve hijacked a great religion.”
Remarks by President George W. Bush on U.S. Humanitarian Aid to Afghanistan
Presidential Hall, Dwight David Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C.
October 11, 2002

“Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion.”
Remarks by President George W. Bush on U.S. Humanitarian Aid to Afghanistan
Presidential Hall, Dwight David Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C.
October 11, 2002

“All Americans must recognize that the face of terror is not the true faith — face of Islam. Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It’s a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It’s a faith based upon love, not hate.”
President George W. Bush Holds Roundtable with Arab and Muslim-American Leaders
Afghanistan Embassy, Washington, D.C.
September 10, 2002

“If liberty can blossom in the rocky soil of the West Bank and Gaza, it will inspire millions of men and women around the globe who are equally weary of poverty and oppression, equally entitled to the benefits of democratic government. I have a hope for the people of Muslim countries. Your commitments to morality, and learning, and tolerance led to great historical achievements. And those values are alive in the Islamic world today. You have a rich culture, and you share the aspirations of men and women in every culture. Prosperity and freedom and dignity are not just American hopes, or Western hopes. They are universal, human hopes. And even in the violence and turmoil of the Middle East, America believes those hopes have the power to transform lives and nations.”
President George W. Bush Calls for New Palestinian Leadership
The Rose Garden, Washington, D.C.
June 24, 2002

“When it comes to the common rights and needs of men and women, there is no clash of civilizations. The requirements of freedom apply fully to Africa and Latin America and the entire Islamic world. The peoples of the Islamic nations want and deserve the same freedoms and opportunities as people in every nation. And their governments should listen to their hopes.”
Remarks by the President George W. Bush at the 2002 Graduation Exercise of the United States Military Academy
West Point, New York
June 1, 2002

“America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths — Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we’re one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country.”
President George W. Bush Promotes Compassionate Conservatism
Parkside Hall, San Jose, California
April 30, 2002

“We’re taking action against evil people. Because this great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil. This is clearly a case of good versus evil, and make no mistake about it — good will prevail.”
Remarks by the President George W. Bush at a Town Hall Meeting with Citizens of Ontario
Ontario Convention Center, Ontario, California
January 5, 2002

“Eid is a time of joy, after a season of fasting and prayer and reflection. Each year, the end of Ramadan means celebration and thanksgiving for millions of Americans. And your joy during this season enriches the life of our great country. This year, Eid is celebrated at the same time as Hanukkah and Advent. So it’s a good time for people of these great faiths, Islam, Judaism and Christianity, to remember how much we have in common: devotion to family, a commitment to care for those in need, a belief in God and His justice, and the hope for peace on earth.”
Remarks by the President in Honor of Eid Al-Fitr
The Diplomatic Reception Room
December 17, 2001

“The teachings of many faiths share much in common. And people of many faiths are united in our commitments to love our families, to protect our children, and to build a more peaceful world. In the coming year, let us resolve to seize opportunities to work together in a spirit of friendship and cooperation. Through our combined efforts, we can end terrorism and rid our civilization of the damaging effects of hatred and intolerance, ultimately achieving a brighter future for all.”
President’s Message for Eid al-Fitr
December 13, 2001

“According to Muslim teachings, God first revealed His word in the Holy Qur’an to the prophet, Muhammad, during the month of Ramadan. That word has guided billions of believers across the centuries, and those believers built a culture of learning and literature and science. All the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements.”
Remarks by the President George W. Bush At Iftaar Dinner
The State Dining Room, Washington, D.C.
November 19, 2001

“The Islam that we know is a faith devoted to the worship of one God, as revealed through The Holy Qur’an. It teaches the value and the importance of charity, mercy, and peace.”
President George W. Bush’s Message for Ramadan
November 15, 2001

“This new enemy seeks to destroy our freedom and impose its views. We value life; the terrorists ruthlessly destroy it. We value education; the terrorists do not believe women should be educated or should have health care, or should leave their homes. We value the right to speak our minds; for the terrorists, free expression can be grounds for execution. We respect people of all faiths and welcome the free practice of religion; our enemy wants to dictate how to think and how to worship even to their fellow Muslims.”
President George W. Bush Addresses the Nation
World Congress Center, Atlanta, Georgia
November 8, 2001

“All of us here today understand this: We do not fight Islam, we fight against evil.”
Remarks by President George W. Bush to the Warsaw Conference on Combating Terrorism
November 6, 2001

“I have assured His Majesty that our war is against evil, not against Islam. There are thousands of Muslims who proudly call themselves Americans, and they know what I know — that the Muslim faith is based upon peace and love and compassion. The exact opposite of the teachings of the al Qaeda organization, which is based upon evil and hate and destruction.”
Remarks by President George W. Bush and His Majesty King Abdullah of Jordan
The Oval Office, Washington, D.C.
September 28, 2001

“Americans understand we fight not a religion; ours is not a campaign against the Muslim faith. Ours is a campaign against evil.”
President George W. Bush Remarks by the President to Airline Employees
O’Hare International Airport, Chicago, Illinois
September 27, 2001

“The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them.”

President George W. Bush’s Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People
United States Capitol, Washington, D.C.
September 20, 2001

“I’ve made it clear, Madam President, that the war against terrorism is not a war against Muslims, nor is it a war against Arabs. It’s a war against evil people who conduct crimes against innocent people.”
Remarks by President George W. Bush and President Megawati of Indonesia
The Oval Office, Washington, D.C.
September 19, 2001

“The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That’s not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don’t represent peace. They represent evil and war.”
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.
September 17, 2001

gordonbloyershow said:
Perm, you seem to have a problem reading plain English. You seem to want to covert what people say into what you wanted them to say.

Perm said………..
And the mosque will open. There is no way to legally stop it. The only way for it not to open is if the Imam decides that he will move to another location, but then, you are saying that Muslims are basically good, and therefore will bow to the wishes of the community. Is that what you’re saying?

First you have no idea what you are talking about. There are many LEGAL ways to stop the Mosque. The New York legislature could designate the site a historical landmark and stop any development. Second the Congress could also do the same.
No I am NOT saying the Mulims are basically good and will BOW to the wishes of the community. I am saying they may be smart enought to realize that no good will come of this if they force the issue.
If YOU were smart enough YOU would know that this Mosque will NEVER be built. Problem is that you don’t have a clue about this issue and you would go down in flames just like Obama if you were in his position.

It will not be long before I am proven right. Then don’t ever comment on another post about something you have no idea about.

Well, that doesn’t seem to be what’s going to happen. Their landmark status has been turned down already. Well, not on a national level. But will they take it to that step. It also doesn’t prevent them from building there, just they can’t tear down the old Burlington coat factory. They would have to build inside the building. If Congress says no, well then that is a direct violation of the first amendment law.

Question, Gordon, where do you live? I live in Brooklyn. I’ve been reading about this before it became a national story. I’ve seen the neighborhood where they want it built. Hell, I was here, I saw the smoke coming from the site, the anger and pain I felt. Now, where were you? Does that matter? I’m emotionally invested in this thing (not nearly as much as the 9/11 families. No where close. And neither are you unless you are one of them, and if that is the case, then I’m sorry for your loss and the feelings you must have had when the tragedy befell). Again, the landmark status will not stop them from building, just tearing down. Now, what other legal ways can they be stopped without violating their rights?

gordonbloyershow said:
Spine, you are a loon. I can cut and paste any comments I want. I want to make sure all you loons keep reading it. You can keep repeating that it is apples and oranges, that won’t sell. It is right on target and that is what drives you nuts nuts.

And once again, you spout hatred and invective without responding to one’s argument or point of view. Your arguments are definitely apples vs. oranges. You’re apples when those seeking intelligent discourse and the truth are oranges. If you cannot argue intelligently, we cannot help you. But your silly comments are boring reading.

Spine just how stupid are you? I did not say anything about a “heritage” site? I said the legislature and the Congress could make it a historic site and they can. You can argue it is unfounded all you want but they can do it with out talking to you. You are a phony hiding behind a phony name shooting off your ignorant mouth on the internet. You have no credibility. Before you make a stupid statement about me not having credibility, I use my real name and have testified before legislatures I have been a guest on tv as an expert on terrorism and security. Before you make yourself look like a fool you should find out who you are argueing with. RRK and other fools like him hide behind phony names because they are afraid of their own shaddow like you.

alamo who was talking to you? Why do you hide behind that phony name? The Alamo is a historic site and lib like you using that name is sad.

gordonbloyershow said:
Spine, you are a loon. I can cut and paste any comments I want. I want to make sure all you loons keep reading it. You can keep repeating that it is apples and oranges, that won’t sell. It is right on target and that is what drives you nuts nuts.

keep clicking your heels Gordon…your ranting and raving is only making us pity you more, there is nothing for those on the side of equality to get upset about…it’s been a long, hard struggle and many, many roadblocks have been put in the way, but we have the Constitution behind us.

All the swearing and online intimidating you attempt just shows us how futile, reckless and desperate you are…that always happens to those who find themselves on the losing side. It’s nothing new.

after your last couple of posts Gordon, it’s obvious that your emotions have gotten the best of you.

Unless you can offer honest, intelligent discourse, this will be the last time I respond to your rants…you are on a time out buddy.

gordonbloyershow said:
alamo who was talking to you? Why do you hide behind that phony name? The Alamo is a historic site and lib like you using that name is sad.

Once, more, an obnoxious comment that has no place in intelligent dialogue. I don’t care if you use your own name. I don’t care if you have your own website, or that you brag constantly about yourself. What I do care about is that you continue to rant and rave, and consistently fail to contextualize your “arguments.” What you do is make silly attacks agains each person who presents an argument contrary to yours. What you do not do is address those arguments in an intelligent manner. You come across as nasty, anti-intellectual — and boring. And again, I don’t care if you use your own name. It means nothing to me. And as for your name calling re my using the Alamo, I will put my military career up against yours any day.

SpineCrusher said:
after your last couple of posts Gordon, it’s obvious that your emotions have gotten the best of you. Unless you can offer honest, intelligent discourse, this will be the last time I respond to your rants…you are on a time out buddy.

SpineCrusher, you are absolutely correct in your comment to Gordon. He is completely off the deep end here. He should take a deep breath, lie down, or see a counselor.

Perm said………
So are you removing my right to disagree? Hypocrite much?

No, what I am saying is that you should be so that embarrassed you would slink away forever. But stupidity has never embarrassed a liberal yet.
You, a liberal, have no idea of the power of the govenment? The City of New York could take that property on an Eminent Domain issue. Do you ever follow the news. Don’t tell me they can’t because it is happening all over the country. You don’t get it because you don’t want to get it. This issue could be tied up in the courts for years if the right people wanted it stopped. Why don’t you tell me a year from now about how they are going to build that Mosque.

alamo, where is your law degree. You can keep repeating that they can’t stop it legally all you want, just watch and see. I know far more about the law and what can be done that you ever will.

The joke here is that the loons on the left have lost this issue and they can’t see it. They will keep twisting the issue until the last day when the local “moderate” Muslims give up and take their prayer rugs to Brooklyn.

gordonbloyershow said:
The joke here is that the loons on the left have lost this issue and they can’t see it. They will keep twisting the issue until the last day when the local “moderate” Muslims give up and take their prayer rugs to Brooklyn.

Once again (sigh), Gordon spews invective rather than try to make a decent argument. He hates all liberals, but hasn’t got the sense to say why. He hates all Muslims, but hasn’t got the intelligence to say why. Gordon’s methods are a sad way to go about the earth, ranting and raving, rather than trying to convince others that his ideas are worthwhile. I would say that intelligent conservatives would be saddened by his explosive temper. You are tiresome, Gordon.

alamo, how are we going to check on your military career if we don’t know your real name? You see folks that hide behind phony names can claim they are an expert on anything and they claim they are the worlds greatest scientist but nobody can check, can they? I know you folks hate it when I “brag”. LOL. I am not bragging I am informing people of my background that they can LOOK up to prove I am not like the libs here that claim they are superior to all the conservatives that post here. The difference is that I am superior to all the libs here because I have done and I can prove it. Can YOU?

On MSNBC, they’ve been trying to turn the entire controversy into one about Newt Gingrich, but Mike Barnicle did end his skewering of Gingrich with a pronouncement that Harry Reid is right.

Gordon, Gordon, Gordon, your tiresome comments about not putting one’s real name out here is boring. And to say that your are superior to all the libs here because you have “done and … can prove it,” well I have no idea what you are talking about, nor do others. Given your explosive and perplexing behavior, I would never let you know my real name. You’re just nuts enough to do something dangerous. Go back and reread your posts here. They do not make sense — just a lot of words full of anger and hatred. You are one scary fellow. (For the record, I was in Vietnam in 1966-1967, with the U.S. Army.)

The only tiresome around here is you alamo, I am sorry I can’t address you by name. Your rant there was total nonsense. The facts have all been presented. I have poste a very long arguement on the issue. Yet you claim that I did not address the issue. The only concluesion I can draw is that you can not read.
I gave you reasons why the Mosque can be stopped legally.
I gave you reasons why the Muslims should be sensitive to the peoples wishes.
I gave you reasons why they will change their mind.
I gave you reasons why it is not a religious freedom issue.
Your problem is that you don’t recognize answers to your position as answers.
Yet you just keep repeating the same nosense over and over.

Alamo, you were in Vietnam prove it. Which side were you on.
My brother was killed in Vietnam in 1968, his name is on the wall.
Save you ignorant attacks about my hatred and anger. They are in your mind. You can’t handle the truth.

You are the boring one.
well I have no idea what you are talking about, nor do others.

I suggest you speak for yourself and NOT others.

Gordon, I sympathize with you about your brother. I know what it is like to lose someone close to violence. I saw plenty of it when I was overseas. However, please do not try to impugn my reputation by asking which side I was on. You know darned well what side I was on, and there is no reason to be sarcastic and nasty about such a somber thing. Your brother would not have said that to me. I honor your brother’s memory; I am positive he was a good man.

gordonbloyershow said:
Perm said………
So are you removing my right to disagree? Hypocrite much?

No, what I am saying is that you should be so that embarrassed you would slink away forever. But stupidity has never embarrassed a liberal yet.
You, a liberal, have no idea of the power of the govenment? The City of New York could take that property on an Eminent Domain issue. Do you ever follow the news. Don’t tell me they can’t because it is happening all over the country. You don’t get it because you don’t want to get it. This issue could be tied up in the courts for years if the right people wanted it stopped. Why don’t you tell me a year from now about how they are going to build that Mosque.

alamo, where is your law degree. You can keep repeating that they can’t stop it legally all you want, just watch and see. I know far more about the law and what can be done that you ever will.

Why, yes, I do, and this is a recent development, so recent in fact that you forgot to include it in the previous comments where you said that the government would use landmark status. My belief, when I asked other legal ways they can stop it, you went and looked it up. Perhaps the CBS News story? Good story. This is just detective work whereas you found the time to make personal attacks on people but you couldn’t respond to my question as quickly. Thus I don’t think you had the eminent domain thing in your back pocket and you looked it up. Ability to research online is just as powerful as a law degree I guess. For the record, I’m not a lawyer, nor should I say I know law backwards and forwards. I did know that the landmark thing fell through because when it did it was the lead story in a few NY papers.

I want to get it. I want to figure out how we can justify giving up our ideals because it would be easy to. Because we are afraid or the pain is too great. Do you “get that?” One of my favorite quotes is from Ben Franklin: “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I stand by my belief in liberty above all else. I believe in this country.

Thing is, if the government does come in to use eminent domain to stop the mosque, that would be a horrible mistake. It, first of all, slaps the whole freedom of religion thing right in the face. Second, it slaps peaceful Muslim AMERICANS in the face. And third, what does that say to the rest of the world? Does this mean that’s it’s a war on Islam and not just terror? See, there are a lot of bigger issues that overshadow the sensitivity one? I get it, I get the pain that people are talking about. I’m sure you were here on Sept. 12, and 13 and most of the remainder of 2001 when fear and anger mixed with a feeling of community. I’m sure you were here for that, right? With your testimony and your expertise on terrorism. You had to have been here on that level. On the human level. And to be able to see that and still say My ideals of America need to be protected above all else, well, that’s quite possibly the most American thing you can do, wouldn’t you agree? I’m not saying it because I believe in Islam or I think that the Islam God is better than the Christian God. I’m saying it because I believe in my country. Can you say you believe in your country enough to put emotion or prejudice aside?

Do you “get that?”

gordonbloyershow said:
No, what I am saying is that you should be so that embarrassed you would slink away forever. But stupidity has never embarrassed a liberal yet.
You, a liberal, have no idea of the power of the govenment?

And for the record, my social and moral views are more liberal and my economy and fiscal views are more conservative, just like most of the country. I’m what you call a moderate. Are you an absolutist then?

Excellent comment, Permatiltx!! I believe that the strength of our great country is that we can — and should — allow that mosque to be built, because legally they have the right. But most importantly, because we would be saying to the world that we are strong enough, that we are great enough, that we are man (woman) enough to allow this to happen. By putting a peaceful mosque within two blocks of Ground Zero, we are proving that we have won, that we will not bow to the enemy (an enemy, by the way, that is a group of terrorists, NOT an entire religion). America is the great melting pot, greater than any other county in history. And this would be another way of proving that to the world.

This whole thing is becoming as repetitive as an Abbott and Costello “Who’s on First” routine. I acknowledge that conservatives aren’t arguing whether or not it’s Constitutional to build the mosque, but if it’s appropriate, which they argue that it isn’t. That said, because of the Constitution, it doesn’t matter whether it’s appropriate or not.

We can yell at the top of our lungs that it’s wrong to build the mosque, but at the end of the day, the mosque will be built, unless people can appeal to the builder’s better natures and convince them, out of respect and sensitivity for those who were directly affected by the attacks on 9/11, that it would be best for all parties if the mosque were moved elsewhere.

What should matter is what the people who were directly affected by the attacks on 9/11 feel about this. In the end, it doesn’t matter what those of us who weren’t there on 9/11 feel about it. Sure, we have opinions and we are voicing them (as we should), but it’s not our voices that should be heard foremost, it’s the voices of those who lost a mother or a father or a sister or a brother or a son or a daughter or a friend that the builders should really be listening to. If they are fine with the building of the mosque, then I’m fine with it. If they are against it, then I’m against it. This is all it should be.

But instead, it’s been turned into a political issue, and that is shameful. Who cares what President Obama thinks of this? Everything he says is turned into political fodder and both sides play with it like a cat plays with a ball of yarn. We got people on the right saying Obama’s out of touch, he’s essentially voting present, etc. etc. etc. We got people on the left, like Beckel and Barnicle who have to resort to political attacks to those on the right to highlight their opinions.

This country is so divided anymore. Some will blame Bush, some will blame Obama, but we should really be blaming ourselves.

Perm, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about on CBS. I did not look up eminent domain stories. I was too busy answering you and alamo. I didn’t think anyone would question the two ways to legally stop the Mosque, I didn’t think I would need more. I have worked for the government and I know they can stop this Mosque in many ways. I changed California tax law because I knew the right person to call.
Why don’t you copy where I said “landmark” status and post it. I don’t believe I used that term, I said historical site.

Stooge that is the first comment you have made that made sense.

The picture . That must be a set of industrial strength suspenders .

I could say something smart-alecky, but why kill this kumbayah (sp?) moment between the two of us?

gordonbloyershow said:
First you have no idea what you are talking about. There are many LEGAL ways to stop the Mosque. The New York legislature could designate the site a historical landmark and stop any development. Second the Congress could also do the same.

There’s a difference between landmark status and historical landmark status? I mean, there could be.

gordonbloyershow said:
Perm, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about on CBS. I did not look up eminent domain stories. I was too busy answering you and alamo. I didn’t think anyone would question the two ways to legally stop the Mosque, I didn’t think I would need more. I have worked for the government and I know they can stop this Mosque in many ways. I changed California tax law because I knew the right person to call.
Why don’t you copy where I said “landmark” status and post it. I don’t believe I used that term, I said historical site.

Between my post (2:52 pm) and between your answer to my post (3:16 pm), approximately 23 minutes took place, though technically you were responding to a quote that occurred at 2:43 pm but we’ll go ahead and move on from that. Reasonable amount of time between posts, except you weren’t answering other posts like that. You responded to the 2:49 pm post of Spine at 2:57 pm, roughly 8 minutes. Then responded to Alamo at 2:59 pm to post he did at 2:53 pm. That was after my post and only 6 minutes. Then other posts later, (particularly ones where you slammed people’s anonymity while inflating your own self worth) were closer. Now, I had to ask why the time in between when others were getting responses quickly. I typed in legal to block ground zero mosque and the first story was the eminent domain issue in the CBS News story. Figured that was the one you went with. Just seemed odd that that comment would take the most time to respond to compared to other comments around me. And that’s why I deduced that. Just used detective work. Would’ve been sooner with this response but I wanted to make sure I covered all that I had seen.

Barnicle, Barnicle? HE is commenting on personal failings? Barnicle of the Boston Globe fired for making up stories and having them published while drawing a paycheck from the paper?

Oh, first to hire him? MS Nothing But Crime (weekends…)

perm, I was responding on the other posts by Mediaite about the Mosque. There are at least 3 other stories about this same subject. I just looked up the CBS 60 Mins. story i think you are talking about. I did not need to look that up, I saw it when it first ran. I have not missed that show in 30 years. I hate to brag but I watch as many news shows as I can. When you work for an elected official you have to know what you are talking about. I can’t feed them crap and keep my job. When I run a political campaign I have to know about everything.

stooge, you explained the story the way an objective reporter would do. You understood both sides.
You still came to the wrong conclusion but you did not dismiss the opponents. Good job.

gordonbloyershow said:
stooge, you explained the story the way an objective reporter would do. You understood both sides.You still came to the wrong conclusion but you did not dismiss the opponents. Good job.

Kumbayah, my Lord. Kumbayah.

Gordon, I come on here to state my opinions. Yes, I’m a liberal, but I don’t come here to attack those who disagree with me. Have I done that? Sure, but only when I get lumped in as an “evil liberal” or whatever. I don’t want to be enemies with you or MichelleF or notsofast. I truly try to see both sides of the coin, even if I spend most of my time on one side of said coin. I am friends with many conservatives who I’d do anything for. I don’t have anything against those on the right, just those who make stupid arguments and attack me for my opinions and beliefs. And I’ll attack someone on the left for the same thing when it comes down to it. Comparing Bush to Hitler? Dumb as a crumb thing to do.

I’m glad we can see eye to eye on something. If you and I can do it, why can’t the rest of America?

Kumbayah, My Lord. Kumbayah.

Im still waiting for one of these pussy’s here to admit Why the Community Center should not be built.
Just one person to give the real reason they don’t want the Community Center to be built.

No one here has the balls to say it.

Al Quaeda attacked us, Not the Muslum religion.
It was a terrorist group.
So, Why do you NOT want a Community Center 3 Blocks away from WTC?

Im waiting for the REAL answer.

File this under the heading, “things you won’t hear about on Mediaite”:

Arab TV Director: Ground Zero Mosque would be ‘Monument’ for Terrorists

The director of Al-Arabiya TV, a popular Arab-language news station, wrote that “Muslims never asked for” the proposed mosque at Ground Zero, and “do not care about its construction,” in a column for London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat on Aug. 16.

“I can’t imagine that Muslims [actually] want a mosque at this particular location, because it will become an arena for the promoters of hatred, and a monument to those who committed the crime,” wrote Al-Arabiya director Abd Al-Rahman al-Rashid in the column, which was translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute. “Moreover, there are no practicing Muslims in the area who need a place to worship, because it is a commercial district. Is there anyone who is [really] eager [to build] this mosque?”

Al-Rashid said that President Barack Obama’s support of the mosque was similar to the administration’s previous decision to close Guantanamo Bay and try suspected terrorists as civilians. “”Muslims do not [really] yearn [to build] a mosque near the 9/11 cemetery, nor do they care whether bin Laden’s cook is tried in a civilian court [or a military one],” said al-Rashid, noting that “tens of thousands of Muslims, likewise accused of extremism, are imprisoned in [even] worse conditions in the Muslim countries.”

According to the director, Muslims care about issues that impact “the destinies of [entire] peoples,” such as the creation of a Palestinian state.

“The last thing Muslims want today is to build a religious center that provokes others, or a symbolic mosque that people will visit as a [kind of] museum next to a cemetery,” said al-Rashid.

Al-Arabiya TV is based out of the United Arab Emirates, and is a direct competitor with Al-Jazeera, another Arab-language news station. Al-Arabiya “is consistently rated among the top pan-Arab stations by Middle East audiences,” reported BBC News in 2003.

According to Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol, al-Rashid’s column “should mean the end of plans for a mosque near Ground Zero.”

“Mr. Al-Rashid supports President Obama’s stand for the mosque in principle (as he supports Obama-like or even beyond-Obama-like policies with respect to the Middle East). He’s no neocon. But his practical case against building the mosque is irrefutable,” wrote Kristol on the Weekly Standard website on Aug. 17. “It should lead well-meaning liberals to join with us dastardly conservatives (well, it would be too painful for them to join with us—they can simply act in parallel, on their own, while continuing to denounce us) in calling for the organizers to shelve the plans for a mosque at this site.”

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/alana-goodman/2010/08/17/arab-tv-director-ground-zero-mosque-would-be-monument-terrorists#ixzz0wujKDSGs

Bob Beckel can’t be blamed for the stupid shit he says. You know the guy’s still got pussy fever. That 21-year-old whore who blackmailed him still has his heart.

Hey, I’m a liberal and I don’t think they should build the mosque there. Don’t paint us liberals with the same brush. We’re not all alike.