The tax on smoking argument is mixed. Theoretically it is regressive, but the research is not 100% on that way. Cherry picking studies is always awesome!

Like unemployment is down?

Sure. Though I trust the BLS with that. It is an imperfect measure, but it is the best available right now. I think the measures for inflation are much worse. Its a scale. 

A terrible misanthrope who has done great damage to America, far more damage than most individuals not in public life could ever cause ….

If liberals are parasites, what do you call the 90% of red states that receive more in federal funds than they contribute in federal taxes, all whilst ranting sanctimoniously about “welfare queens”…?

Because conservatives like to pander. Its all a shell game. The mainstream republicans have no intent on taking benefits away from anyone. And any conservative worth his salt on these boards know this.

Here’s the right attempting to unite people the only way they know how, by flat out insulting them and calling them parasites.

I think Mr. Norquist is the one who is making the Republican party swallow their own tongues and commit suicide by persuading them to sign a pledge never to increase revenue to balance the books and to say no to everything that may affect the wealthy, leaving cuts to the programs that benefit the poor and middle class as the only options as you know those cuts aren’t going to come from military spending as they want to invade Iran. When you have this unhelpful attitude, paired with the far right positions on social issues that the republican frontrunners are forced to take, they’re going into the Presidential election heavily wounded.

 Who again talked also about parasites? Riiiiiight, a dude called Adolf Hitler

“The result is not only the end of freedom
for the people oppressed by the Jews, but rather also the end
of these parasites of the peoples themselves. After the death
of the victim, the vampire dies sooner or later.”

Mein Kampf, 1925, Volume 1, p. 358.

Smokers tend to have lower education levels than do non smokers I am not sure how that translates into the studies you have seen.  Deficit spending introduces serious inflationary pressures into the economy and nothing is more regressive in nature than inflation, there are do personal deductions or tax credits awarded to offset this invisible and hidden tax.  So every time we have a Trillion dollar deficit people should think about this, especially when you heard that the Fed is purchasing the Debt…  as they are purchasing assets with newly invented money and injecting it into the fractional reserve banking system where it can be expanded 9 times at current reserve requirements.  

I am no fan of Norquist, and I would support a complete tax overhaul that would enhance revenues, but in no way favor a simple rise in the taxes collected on any one segment of the society.  The tax codes are too ripe with favor and subsidy to not be overhauled, it is well past time.  Stop paying farmers to not grow food, and stop paying Fiskers to produce $100,000.00 electric toys…  and stop paying for everything in between. 

Wingnutz,

When nobody pays taxes to pay for police or firemen to protect your cave, who are you going to call?

You are right about that and hence you see the disarray in the republican party…  as ugly as some of the Tea Party candidates who have made it into office have been the best thing that can be said for many of them is that they are not mainstream..

It is more likely that when Hitler called Jews parasites he was talking about their banking institutions and the money they made in financing WWI…  Not quite the same…  Not to excuse Norquist, but your comparison is hyperbolic.  

Norquist is the epitome of the DC Abramoff-type insider crony. You can only wonder how this guy may have lined his pockets.

When did police, firemen, and teachers for that matter become the responsibility of the federal government…  Your getting a little ahead of the game there Top… President Obama has not quite been able to grow the federal government that fast, for that he will need his second term.  

After we leftists take over this November, Grover will be one of the first guests at our Suburban Chicago dentention center. There he will be joined by the four extreme rightwing SCOTUS justices and a number of other reactionary and corrupt political and business leaders, including, of course, George Bush, Richard Cheney and the Koch Bros.. Obama is going to model his concentration camps on the ‘soft’ model we devised for the Japanese during WWII. 

Obama and Vice President Patty Soros (daughter of George) will also be changing the name of the Democrat Party to the Social Democrat Party of the US. That’s right, we’re going to align the United States with the far left Socialist parties of Germany, Scandinavia, Holland, France and you know what that means. Mandatory health care for everyone, 30-35 hour work weeks, eliminating poverty, forcing people to eat a lot of vegetables, raising taxes on incomes over 500K, limiting gun ownership to two for each home – it’s the price we’re going to have to pay for all these reckless years of wars and profiteering. Also, we will establish one stop abortion clinics and marijuana dispensaries in all major cities. The worship of God will be limited to two days a week except where Sharia Law prevails, and we will encourage the establishment of NAAWP centers everywhere where white people feel oppressed. The country has had enough of rightwing extremism. It’s time for some good old leftwing extremism.

 8 March 2010

Mr. Grover Norquist President Americans for Tax Reform 722 12th Street, NW Suite 400 Washington, D.C. 20005

Dear Grover:

For some time, you have been promoting a number of national
security-related policy positions and initiatives as the appropriate
ones for conservatives and Republicans to adopt. These have included:

· Your strenuous opposition to the enactment and subsequent reenactment of the Patriot Act; · Your support for President Obama’s decision to close Guantanamo Bay; · Your support for his administration’s bid to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in civilian court in New York City; · Your support for transferring detainees from Guantanamo Bay to a prison in Thomson, Illinois. · Your advocacy of what amount to open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens; · And your outreach to individuals and organizations associated with the Muslim Brotherhood in the name of GOP “inclusiveness.”

You have claimed that those who disagreed with you on these recommendations were “scaremongering,” “racists” and “bigots.”

It has been troubling to me that your policy preferences and
efforts to advance them may have contributed to a serious diminution of
the amount and quality of attention given to these and related subjects
in the Conservative Action Project’s Mount Vernon Statement, the
Conservative Political Action Conference’s program and the choices
available to respondents as part of the development of the Contract From
America.

It was, therefore, heartening to me to learn of the enthusiasm
you have expressed together with The Nation’s Katrina vanden Heuvel for
the idea of debate as a means whereby arguments can be “tested and
honed.” Rarely has it been more necessary than now, in the run-up to a
potentially pivotal national election, to have a rigorous evaluation of
the sorts of ideas you espouse and promote with respect to our national
security and their suitability for American conservatives and
Republicans.

Accordingly, I formally challenge you to a public debate about
those arguments in a mutually agreeable forum. I believe this should
take place at the earliest possible moment, given the importance of
sorting out whether your policy recommendations should be adopted or
rejected by the Republican Party and/or the conservative movement.

Knowing of your commitment to public debate, I hope you will promptly accept this invitation.

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. President & CEO Center for Security Policy

Oh, I dunno know…when local response is overwhelmed and turn to the County, and State, and finally to FEMA.

Since the conservaclowns whine about the Fed gubbimint NOT doing its job.

Since conservaclowns want FEDERAL subsidies to send their kids to xtian Taliban camp.

Maybe since conservaclonws want FEDERAL subsides to have their kids learn about  “Creation nonsense”

Don’t do that.

It is easier to pick up the bloated wingnutz off the streets before they spill their filth on the ground.

Have you graduated HS yet? Considering a GED maybe?

CPAC is utterly useless. It’s a just another breeding ground for the lowest common-denominator in our society.

Let me help you.

P Ant Norquist premise is based on  “NO TAXES” at all, be it Federal or Local.

As I said, who are you going to call when your cave is on fire?

Has Grover ever worked a real job in his life?

Dodging the question? Let me help you as it seems that if I am not progressive, that means in your small world that I support Norquist… If you read the thread here I think that I have made it clear that I don’t support the Norquist Tax pledge… But his plan is hardly anymore destructive for this country than is the president’s unbridled spending. Let’s see, the secretary of defense has told him so, the CBO has warned him of the same, Numbers of economists have stated that the biggest threat to our economy is our deficit spending… what do you suggest Top, I am interested.. Tax the 1%? Even if you took all their wealth it would not solve the deficit problem, so what is it that you would suggest to solve our problems? More spending, the magic Keynesian multiplier effect? Not working as there is no effect, all this government spending has done little to increase the GDP, in fact there are Harvard economists stating just the opposite… what then Top do you suggest?

Or, to put it another way: “We’re not red and blue, we’re red, white and parasite”.

Actually, my comparison is spot on since Hitler referred to Jews as parasites not only because of banks or financial influence, but also as motor of left political movements.

Read his stuff, it´s all there.

Norquist used the exact same term in regards to the left. Is he therefor a mass murderer like Hitler? Surely not. But he wants to get rid of “parasites”, doesn´t he? He happens to view the world as a fascist and that´s what I will call him for calling people “parasites”.

I think they’ve already paraded every idiot they have up that podium this weekend. The only ones left to go are Michael “Savage” Weiner and Orly Taitz.

He should have been sent to jail with his buddy Jack Abramoff.  Talk about parasites.

The thread run out of “reply” buttons so I am going to put it here:

The gNOpig clowns enjoyed 10 years of tax cuts to get their arses in gear and create jobs. Where are them jobs?

At the same time, them gNOpigs bit ch and moan for the gubimint to build roads and infrastructure to get the sheep on time for their shearing.

You are right, Jack. Building half arsed schools in Iraq is more important than creating jobs in ‘merka.

Reading some of the speeches  and comments made at CPAC this week it seems like such a sad joke when I hear conservatives talk about how divisive the President has been.

Tom Colburn thinks Grover is a parasite.

Try to cut the defense budget or any form of corporate welfare and watch them squeal like a pig.

Grover Norquist is one a multitude of other puppeteers. Here’s a short list: Roger Ailes: the right-wing mouth piece of the biased and unbalanced. The Koch Brothers: Owners of Koch Industries, helped create and fund the Tea Party, Dick Armey and FreedomWorks organization helped to create the Tea Party seeks to deregulate all reform. Tom Donohue the largest conservative lobbying group. Tony Perkins and Family Research Council, a hate group believes global warming is a hoax. Pat Robertson who passes out “voter guides” in churches and yet is granted tax exempt status. Edwin Feulner President of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. Arthur Thompson a John Birch Society founder/member with Koch family opposes the Civil Rights Act. Rupert Murdoch controls a vast media empire around the world including Fox News, The New York Post, and the Wall Street Journal here in America. Grover Norquist 235 members of the House and 41 Senators signed the Norquist pledge to not raise taxes. David Bossie and Citizens United want to allow corporate ownership of elections. Tim LaHaye and Kenneth Cribb support theocracy and Dominionism as national policy. Steven J. Law of American Crossroads defend and elect Republican candidates to federal office. 
James Dobson Talk radio personality and Family Research Council founder has never been ordained. Dobson believes that women should only focus on mothering. Phyllis Schlafly founder and President of the Eagle Forum, opposes feminism and equal rights for women. David Keene runs the event known as CPAC and is still the current President of the National Rifle Association. Tim Wildmon and the American Family Association is headed by Tim Wildmon wants deregulation of the oil industry and has actively boycotted just about any business that disagrees with them. David Barton not having any law credentials passes himself off as an expert in early American history and organized Wallbuilders, which seeks to destroy the separation of church and state. Noble Ellington and the American Legislative Exchange Council a pay to play organization that works to end unions, environmental and labor regulations, and consumer protection laws. Edward H. Crane founder of the Cato Institute is leading the privatizing of Social Security, abolishing minimum wage, abolishing affirmative action, and some environmental regulations. Grover has a bunch of helpers to destroy our American way of life!

Sounds pretty good except for the sharia law bs.

Wow…this Stutterin Jack dud has all the talking points from Rush, Fox and WND…..I suggest he turns the crap off for a couple weeks and stop being such a sucker

OMG you are an idiot.  Dude, the old, mentally ill, retarded and non arians were all parasites for Hitler.        Good God your an idiot

Lookit….this dude is a total creeper and he is about to get his ass handed to him in November.   This dummy knows his days are number as far as being a party insider so he is just swinging wildly like the drunk bum we always new he was.      What a very small man.

Wow. Every economist who is living outside of the administration knows that the “seasonally adjusted” numbers from the Obama Adm has been greatly massaged. Thank goodness most states out west don’t rely on income taxes (and employment estimates for their own revenue projections). They would be serious trouble!

 I don’t think the administration is even collecting data… I personally think they are taking data points from Monte Carlo runs, or they have significant sample bias, or they got some kind of heteroskedasticity that they are clueless about! There is no question about it. As you traverse I-90 or I-70 away from the Potomac to the Pacific, the departure from reality and the data increases proportionately.  If I had to run a state budget off projections from the feds, I’d be screwed. At least you can back adjust on the Manpower grants. 

This has been a great administration for those who produce an accurate set of data…. only Bush I was a better time. Maybe their data back east is fine…but not out west, and not up north, and definitely NOT for the 49th and 50th.

Not to my knowledge.

So Grover is sayn’ the Republicans are the walmart of the political world?

I LOVE this stuff. Watching the conservatives rally an apparent dim witted base is just simply intellectually stimulating. The levels of anthropological societal insanity is just plain amazing. These are people, who would stand up in front of a team, down by 10 touchdowns and they would scream.. WE HAVE ANOTHER HALF TO PLAY!!! WE ARE NOT OUT OF THIS GAME SO LONG AS THERE IS TIME ON THE CLOCK.. THE OTHER SIDE? THEY DONT STAND A CHANCE..”
And miraculously, the “base” cheers this madness on, not even thinking about the wealth of the speakers, the obvious way in which the speakers use their “Basic” simple mindedness to increase their own wealth..  and the fact that so far, in this election cycle, these “leaders” have been the greatest side show of plain embarrassing buffoonery ever. GO DONALD TRUMP!! 

Much like the right, as the left and right are not much different ;)

I think I just flushed one of Grover’s relatives down the toilet after a big meal.

 Are you the daughter of Mr Haney from Green Ares?

 LOL, right like he reads this column and he gives a flying F about what you have to say. BTW… You sound like an idiot anyway.

Grover Norquist should be arrested for treason. Why anyone gay would be a Republican is be on me… 

The right wing parasites eat this up while missing the irony.  Shameful. 

It didn’t hurt that he had 2000 years of “the Jew Christ killer” to ralley up the base while spreading his message. 

Another GOP failure. Had to be standing on a dozen phone books just to get his head above the podium.

You don’t think the administration is collecting data. Right. That is an ignorant comment.

Whiny, petulant namecaller.

ConsumerTaxReports.Org
has supplied citizens a one-stop place for looking for tax debt aid
businesses, so that it is considerably easier to weed past the scams of the
business and come across a dependable tax debt organization to guidance get
an IRS settlement. Check out the web-site here!
http://www.ConsumerTaxReports.org The factor I liked about the web-site was
actually the in-depth checklist of the national businesses and surveys, that
offer an idea of each company’s “free consultation.”

Very good and one of the things you failed to note was how so many of the persons you mentioned had their roots in the conservative split from the republican party following the Nixon administrations demise seeking a path to dominate and control the party and to build an organization through which to share power, not for the advancement of America and the rule of law, they seek to impose their concepts of how this nation should be organized and the values they believe we should adhere to and they see any alternative to them as the enemy that must be destroyed. They see themselves as a rightful aristocracy ABOVE the law and that their right to dominate and rule is greater than the rights of the people to rule themselves.

There is nothing good in the belief of these conservatives that they and they alone should dictate the path of Americas present AND future as they decree through their many surrogates. They do not respect nor do they intend to be bound by or ruled by laws OR the Constitution. They are by definition enemies domestic to the United States of America, do not ever doubt they see themselves as serving a greater cause and that they are determined through any means what so ever to remake America and to impose their way upon a free people subjugating the people to their will and control now and forever.

Their greatest fear is that the people will turn from the path they seek to impose upon us and they are right to fear it, a free people will seek freedom and the nature of the system they want is to prevent and suppress the desires of Americans to be in control of and served by the government and not to be enslaved to a government and those that control it through a feudal system of  the privileges hereditary  wealth and power, Or as you the reader will more rightly see it they want to create a BIRTH RIGHT TO RULE and establish a system wherein wealth hath its privileges and exemption to the laws they impose on the rest of the……people or as they will see us the PEASANTS who have no rights and should know and accept their place in the order of things.

Norquist is an enemy of this nation if for no other reason than his goal of “making the US so weak that its enemies can drown it in a bathtub” and those are not the desires of an American patriot but they are the goals of a destroyer from within.

“The idea that being an immigrant basher was good politics should have been put to rest in 2006 and I would argue that if the face of the modern Republican Party is Tom Tancredo, it loses over the next 25 years”-Grover Norquist at CPAC 2007

 Why do you think this is funny? Play it straight and avoid slopping the conservative hogs, do not embrace the desires of the enemy to dominate and re-educate this nation, what you posted is just as bad as what they want to do, and I will not give up my gun to conservatives or to anyone else for that matter.

If you desire to inspire fear in conservatives SPEAK OUT in public and VOTE and encourage others to accept the burden of universal suffrage and to exercise their franchise and VOTE, remind them to vote their interests and not the interests of others, because when you vote conservative you are in fact voting to harm yourself ,it is a kind of suicidal political tendency on the part of republican voters to harm themselves and their best interests by voting conservaligious republican. They do not know how deluded they are and we should pity them during this time of mentally defective republican loyalty to destructive beliefs and ideology, BUT WE SHOULD NOT LET THEM ACHIEVE ANY FURTHER CONTROL OF THIS (A FREE) NATION, THEY ARE NOT WORTHY…..AND THEY NEVER HAVE BEEN.

 You just veered off into LA LA LAND with that basically ignorant “Smokers tend to have lower education levels than do non smokers” assertion.

You had a moment or two of semi lucid thoughts and a hint of valid conceptual reasoning, BUT you had to all stupid and BLAMO you become the idiot spouting nonsense and undercut any chance you had to make a point or to contribute to the rational side of the debate and conversation.

No, they are the “dollar store” of the political world, cheap and generally worthless.

My friend just met a chocolate man on Blackwhitemeet.COMit’s where for men and women looking for interracial’ship for a fabulous lifestyle
It’s a nice place for black white sing’les, to interact with each other…no bounds or extremes in front of true love.

walmart = evil empire

My previous well-documented comment here seems to have gone into a black hole.

The Nazi propaganda about Jews went far beyond references to banking institutions, and included related words like “vermin”, “filth”, “greasy” etc. Google will provide more details if you’re curious. Try these terms (with the plus signs in front) all in the same query: +nazi +jews +parasites

Calling a group of people parasites accomplishes stage 3 of genocide, dehumanization. Google also will tell you about the other seven stages.

Say hello to the unelected fellow who controls the Republican party.  

Blah blah…same old far-right talking points.  

The Republican party is also made up of parasites….but just ones that don’t want to pay for anything.

We all know that “small government” only matters to Republicans when Democrats are in charge.  

Give the Republicans power for even a minute and they’re busy ramming through their own pet projects and right-wing social engineering.

Now this loser is your quintessential registered republican.  Sheeps eyes and shit for brains.  The  CPAC is the perfect venue for the GOP freak fest of stupidity.  They are all alike.  Even the pastors who speak at this event are liars and losers who could never get a real job in life.  The truth is not in any of the people who speak at the CPAC.  It is nothing more than the great freak fest event where stupidity is encouraged, hippocrisy is on display, lies are the flavor of the day and these animals just love the red meat being thrown at them by all the self serving liars who speak at the CPAC.  If Jesus Christ himself made a tempo surprise appearance at this event he would probably have only one thing to say to everyone speaking and attending……..”Be gone, I never knew any of you.”

If the left are parasites, why is it that almost all of the Tax Leech states of the country (areas that suck up more dollars than they pay in) are red states?  Answer me that one, Grover. 

I would like to inform Grover that more and more Republicans are not taking the pledge they signed seriously!!

They were elected to uphold the Constitution, not Grover’s commands!!

Grover Norquist apparently thinks supply and demand doesn’t apply to taxes.

He praises Republican Congresscritters on the “supercommittee” here for holding the line on low taxes, with the aim of limiting the size of goverment. The thing is, not unlike Walmart, low taxes equals “low prices every day” for government services, and does nothing but stimulate demand for them.

Using data from the Office of Management and Budget (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist01z3.xls), for decades there’s been a very clear trend in the relationship between revenues and outlays:

When taxes go up, government shrinks.
When taxes go down, government grows.

This is completely unsurprising. Replace “taxes” with “prices,” and “government” with “sales,” and those two statements would be wholly uncontroversial.

During the Eisenhower administration, revenues were 18.7% of GDP, while outlays were 20.4% of GDP.

Today, after decades of tax cuts starting with JFK, revenues are 14.9% of GDP… and outlays have reacted exactly as one would expect from putting an “ON SALE!” sticker on them — they’re 23.8% of GDP.

It goes the other way, too: I’m looking here at the combined GHW Bush and Clinton administrations, known for raising taxes.

revenues
1988: 18.2%
2000: 20.6%

outlays:
1988: 21.3%
2000: 18.2%

Grover Norquist has done more to expand government than anyone else alive in America today.

The Republican mind at its very best.  Diseased & decayed.

unemployment is down you boob

Dang, does anyone like this guy? I’ve always thought it illogical to NEVER raise taxes. Higher taxes when we had two wars going on just might have made sense. If our deficit is skyrocketing and spending cuts are hard to make. A tweaking of the tax rates make sense. Oh I forgot, we’re dealing with a Congress that has a ten percent approval rating.

What was it in Rwanda? Cockroaches?

If the left is full of “competing parasites” than the GOP should be delighted; isn’t it all excited about competition? A successful parasite thrives by helping its host thrive, which is more than I can say about the GOP, which comes across more as a flesh eating bacteria.

Not to worry, Lambchop.
Once the General Election begins…the excitement will pick up and you and your parasitie  friends  can once again march like zombies and expose  your fangs
Are we going after the GOP families again this time?

To any rational human being Grover Norquist and his ilk are the stuff of nightmares. 
  

Yes Walmarx has done more to destroy local economies than the republicans and that evil empire is the one that republicans want to birth out of the US after they destroy it, they want to create the Federal Christian Republic of America, with no “rule of law not of men” and NO “we the people”.

 We sure are and we will prosecute the Romney boys for failing to register for selective service as required by law.

My friend just met a chocolate man on Blackwhitemeet.COMit’s where for men and women looking for interracial’ship for a fabulous lifestyle
It’s a nice place for black white sing’les, to interact with each other…no bounds or extremes in front of true love.

Here ya go Professor…

• 28.9 percent of adults who are below the poverty level smoke, compared to 18.3 percent of adultswho are at or above the poverty level.5• Families with the highest income level experienced a 62 percent reduction in current smokingbetween 1965 and 1999, while families with the lowest income level only experienced a 9 percentreduction in current smoking rates over the same time period.6• Among adults under age 65, 34.9 percent with Medicaid coverage smoke compared to 33.5percent who are uninsured and 17.3 percent with private insurance coverage.7• 25.1 percent of adults who do not graduate from high school smoke compared to just 9.9 percentof those with a college education, and 6.3 percent of those with a graduate degree.8• Smoking among non-college bound high school seniors is twice that of college bound high schoolseniors (32.2 percent vs. 15.6 percent, respectively).9• An analysis of data on ever smokers from the 2003, 2006 and 2007 Tobacco Use Supplement of theCurrent Population Survey found that individuals in poverty had a median duration of smoking of 40years while those with a family income three times the poverty threshold had a median duration of22 years. Similarly, the median duration of smoking among individuals without a high schooleducation was 40 years while it was 18 years among those with at least a bachelor’s degree.10

tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0260.pdf 

Like I said not all conservatives align with Norquist, His rhetoric is popular with conservatives because we never seem to see a trend for less spending in government finances….  even the baseline which for in my business would mean no macro change in expenditure for the federal government is something like an 8 percent increase..  that is significantly above what the government publishes for its inflation rates that it bases cola’s on and the number it uses to tell us all that we are doing just fine…  It is also a number which will hide a lot of needless spending into the future…  If people want to see people like Norquist go away, then all they have to do is demand that their government act more responsibly, Norquist will lose his power to attract people to his cause if they see that congress is already acting responsibly.  

consider this, the logarithm for an constant 8 percent increase would double departmental budgets every 9 years…  can we continue to do this?  Can we really keep spending more than we take in and how large of a percentage of our economy do we really want to turn over to the Federal government…  Remember these are politicians we are talking about when it comes right down to it, and they have never demonstrated that collectively they can act responsibly….. they will drive it over the cliff because they do not know how not to!

It is an interesting theory that you have proposed but without going and studying the site because I am sure that it would take more than a few minutes to study the cause and effect over many years, I would ask you if your premise is overly simplified.  The last 11 years have been a little extraordinary in that you had first our response to 911 which saw not only the addition of 2 wars to the federal budget, but a complete reorganization and expansion of our intelligence and security agencies, including the addition of new departments such as Homeland security and the TSA….  Another factor that you do not bring up is the Keynesian response to the recession that continues today, especially in the forms of extended unemployment payments, food stamps, expansion in medicad recipients, as well as the government programs to try and stimulate the economy, it is no secret that the administration has done much to funnel money to the states to help delay crises in pensions and public service as in trying to avoid further layoffs in teachers, police and fire services..  Then we have the Green investments…  I am not trying to be judgmental here, but I am suggesting that the correlation you have noticed between tax levels and size of government as interesting as an observation that you make may not be so easily explained as the current low levels of revenues that for the most part are being caused by a depressed economy.  

Not unlike your teeth.

 Many of the comparatives are not relative and much of what you post has no basis in reality they are however showing why we need a universal health financing system due to the fact that the data you provided shows time and again that the lower rates of smoking have nothing to do with education but with the relative wealth of the respondents to the surveys and studies. In all the data you presented it is clear that MONEY is the separating factor and not education.

So DumbA$$ thank you fro showing how wealth affects health the argument that republicans refuse to face, also you have fallen into the trap of believing previous generations are stupid compared to the current one, and those generations had higher graduation rates in HIGH SCHOOL and thanks to the GI BILL and the wealth growth of the middle class (that conservatives are destroying) had higher graduation rates from colleges and technical skills schools AND A MUCH HIGHER RATE OF SMOKING ACROSS ALL CLASSES AND EDUCATION LEVELS.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BE A PSEUDO INTELLECTUAL IF YOU ALREADY ARE ONE, It shows and it is sad you have wasted the potential to be a better brain operator.

You made a stupid assertion and tried to defend it without understanding why what you posted was stupid unless you were being stupid by design and that is just sad very sad..

 Yes and we start with Mitts boys who should have registered for selective service at age 18 as they were required to do by law, his campaign refuses to answer this question even as he CLAIMS his sons are serving the nation by engaging in the partisan political process to get him elected, it does not equate to a black woman living in poverty serving in harms way while they get a 100,000,000 dollar trust fund and avoid the potential of having to give the greatest measure of devotion to this country, and by the way GROVER did not serve either, and seems to have a sham marriage to quell rumors of his sexuality and gender preference, only children are adopted and he has spent very little time with his wife since getting married, his friends say he lives like a monk.

Leeches, parasites, welfare baby-breeders subjugated to the Democrats Dependency Plantation…call them what you may.

 So you went to a meeting and got a list of sites to crusade on. no please do not deny it we all know about the “Be a Conservative Warrior” type garbage the extreme right has started to combat the message that Americans do not have to bend their knee to conservatism, there is nothing worse than a provocateur at work, it is a partisan attack on truth when someone like you (and others) who just show up to spread lies and noise.

I only use the smoking stats to refute your wild assertion from above which by the way is totally erroneous…  beyond that you in your statement you open the topic of regressive taxs…  I merely point out that for all the defenders of deficit spending they either do not see and understand the impact that deficit spending has on the working poor and middle class of this country, or they simply choose to ignore it…  There is no more destructive force to the poor and middle class than the inflation caused by deficit spending….  It is the government that is more responsible than any other entity for the destruction of the middle class but progressives refuse to account for this fact.

You certainly must feel your argument to be weak as in it you incorporate a number of insults towards someone who you have never met yet you simply for presenting a differing opinion on a posting board…  genius!

 Since 1980 we borrowed 14,000 Billion. The Tax Book was Christmas Tree filled with goodies for the Rich and Corporations. It is a shame that they take more in Exemptions than they pay in taxes.
That is why OECD ranks Us:
#2 as Least Taxed–We pay 30% of GDP in fed—state–local taxes
#2 as Least Taxed Corporations–In 2011 They paid 1.5% of GDP in taxes
# 4 on Inequality–10% own almost 80% of our Wealth and take almost 50% of our individual income..80% get the crumbs
Suggestions:
1.Fed Fund election–6 months-3 primary- 3 general-free equal tv time-one debate a week=12-adequate to evaluate candidates no $$ no pacs
2.Members of Congress and White House can accept nothing with a financial value.
Keep them on the job not on the road
3.Progressive Flat Tax(by group)–tax to pay our way not leave for kids to pay
4.Burn Tax Book–gets enough added revenue to have a surplus to attack the debt

Yes! Simple. Yes Effective.
only bug I find is how to choose candidates.

1980-2009– 3 conservative presidents had this record
took 600 budget to 3500(less clinton itsy)
took 1000 debt to 10,000
took 218,000 net new jobs per month to 99,000
took surplus to 1400B deficits as far as eye can see
Initiated our involvement in 10 foreign conflicts
smashed our Housing Industry
smashed the World Financial System with Casino Derivative of America
Gained enmity of 1500 Million of another religion via
invasions of two  unarmed destitute nations
smashed our Economy with a Great Recession
took us from bottom 5 on Inequality to #4 in OECD rankings
Took us to #2 as Least Taxed in OECD rankings
Took us to #2 as Least Tax on corporations in OECD rankings
Shame on us
clarence  swinney oldugl87meanhonest political historian lifeaholics of america
#s  facts comments welcome cswinney2@triad.rr.com opinions ignored

why did Nutquist reside for years in a house with just young males????

1980-2012 we borrowed 14,000B.
The rich got ultra rich as we failed to tax wealth to pay our way.
Tax book used to load exemptions for rich
SHAM–when rich get more in exemptions than they pay in taxes
Warren Buffett 2010 Tax Return
Made 63M paid 6.5M
How did he get 56.5M in exemptions?

“The last 11 years have been a little extraordinary…”

If I was citing only the previous 11 years, you might well be right.  But I’m citing the previous 51 years instead.  That means (for example), presidents as disparate as LBJ and Reagan.  Despite such a varied sample, the trend continues regardless.

In other words, you’re not really addressing my point: Supply and demand still works.  Yes, there have been many policies implemented over the previous few years.  I suggest one of the drivers of the demand for those policies is that, to the taxpayers, they’ve been steeply discounted — notably in the Bush tax cuts.

That ”ON SALE!” sticker is still hanging in Norquist’s office.

OECD ranks USA
#2 Least Taxed Corporations–Pay 1.5% of GDP–12.1% Tax Rate in 2011
#2 Least Taxed nation–take 30% of GDP in all fed-state-local taxes

Rich + Corporations get more Exemptions from paying taxes than they pay.
Est 2500B exemptions in Tax Book.
In 2011 corp paid 266B in taxes(12.1% ON 35% TOP RATE)–Over 1000B in exemptions in tax book for them
Top 50% paid 1000B and have over 1000B in exemptions in tax book
BURN THE TAX BOOK  start anew
We get added est 2500B of revenue and a surplus

RICH HAVE RAPED US SINCE 1980

cbo—2002 to 2012
Bush “NEW” programs added 5100B to Debt
Obama “NEW” programs added 1400B

Bush could not blame Clinton
Obama can say Bush GREAT RECESSION created his NEW programs.

Mnay studies have shown–Happiness in a population is in a Direct Proportion to Equality in distribution of wealth

Our Wealth redistribution began with Reagan 60% tax cut for top.
He increased spending(government) by 80% and Debt by 180%.
Bush got 92% and 112% increases.

 Net New Jobs Per Year
Rounded numbers
Wall Street Journal 1-19-09

Clinton-2,900,000
Carter—2,600,000
Johnson-2,300,000
Reagan–2,000,000
Nixon—-1,700,000
Kennedy-1,200,000
Truman– 1,100,000
Ford——- 745,000
Bush I—– 625,000
Eisenhower 438,000
Bush II—- 375,000

Democrat—10,100,000
Republican– 5,883,000

Per Day In Office
Democrat—10,125 Days
Republican-13,149 Days

Jobs per day
Democrats-997
Republicans-447

facts hurt—-

Clinton to Bush to Obama
Who Dug the Deep Hole? Who Fumbled the ball?
Numbers rounded

Clinton left Bush an 1800B Budget
Bush Left Obama a 3500 Budget

Clinton left Bush a 240B Surplus as far as the eye can see
Bush left Obama a 1400B Deficit as far as the eye can see

Clinton left Bush 5,700B of Debt
Bush left Obama 11,800B of Debt

Clinton left Bush a 237,000 net new jobs created per month
Bush left Obama a 31,000 lowest number since Hoover.

Clinton left Bush 17 Million Manufacturing Jobs
Bush left Obama 11 Million Manufacturing Jobs

Clinton left Bush a 10,800 Dow
Bush left Obama an 8028 Dow

Clinton left Bush Peace on Earth Good Will From Most Men
Bush left Obama Hell on Earth Two disastrous wars. Enmity of 1500 Million Muslims

Clinton left Bush a President most highly rated of any peacetime President in Asia, Africa, Europe.
Bush left Obama the most hated President in history
Bush left Obama an Housing Tsunami and Financial Volcano
Bush left Obama, in 2008, an 8500B Bail out commitment Yes! 8500 not just 700
Bush left Obama his Takeover of Fannie/Freddie, AIG, and first bailout of Chrysler
Bush increased maximum loan by Fannie/Freddie from $153,000 in 2000 to $300,000 then to $729,000
That is how F&F got stuck with so many toxic mortgages. Bush gift to Big Bank pals.
Bush increased FDIC maximum deposit coverage from $100,000 to $250,000. Help the rich.
 clarence swinney–political historian–lifeaholics of america burlington nc
author-Lifeaholic–Life story of Workaholic failure to Lifeaholic success
Best seller list in haw river nc population 200 and growing
comments welcom facts -numbers not opinion cswinney2@triad.rr.com

Revenue increase–burn tax book- start over–since 1980 a christmas tree loaded with goodies for rich and corporate.
We pick up an esttimated 2500B of added revenue that yields a surplus.
Medicare + Defense are two hogs loaded with fraud and waste.
Health Care Costs. Vet adm buys pharma for 40% under Medicare!!!
Dinner out of town–wife left arm numb–small for profit emergency hospital next door.
Elevated blood pressure-Nitro patch on chest.– In bed 9 hours. ok.
I got bill Call 911 quick. $6,000. Shameful.

Pal. Cloth Gauze shoulder to elbow. bill for just gauze was $600.
Bought  a roll enough for two arms at $20. To hospital raised xxxx and cut to $100
still a 900% markup

We are ripped off there is no competiton.
Until Oil Pharma made more profit on sales than any industry for many years

Our Tax Book is why GE has a tax dept of 900.
Flat Tax– no tax book-save 900 jobs

 You know, as much as I like this site, these are damn annoying and I never seem to see them deleted.  It makes you wonder

Don’t miss understand me, I like your premise, but I still believe it is not so simple. I think that there are many issues that are not addressed by it. I think that spending vs tax rates correlation does exist, just as when you look back over the history of the modern presidencies you will see that republican presidents have been responsible for more deficit spending than have democrats until this last president. But even then you have to look deeper to get a real understanding.

I will however agree that if you were to expand the tax base to include all people earning income and raise the taxes across board to balance the budget, then you would see more people demanding reductions in federal spending. I am not so sure though that you can apply the supply, demand, price equilibrium to government spending under our current taxing policies as the tax burden is being skewed more and more to a smaller segment of the population while the government is trying to provide more and more services to those who are not directly paying for many of the benefits which they receive.

In addition to my last comment in part I look forward to the expiration of the Bush tax cuts because honestly it will effect a broader base of income levels and as more of our citizens to pay for the expansive programs of our government and I would hope that it would give them cause to reconsider governmental spending because the way the government is funding itself right now the cost of this spending is largely unseen by the general public even though it does effect their daily lives.

Where do you see me saying that Bush did the right thing? I do understand that Bush was very progressive in his nature and built some structural deficiencies into the system… There is much that Bush can be criticized for, this does not however excuse more of the same. It is convenient for you to blame the housing crisis on Bush and try to wash democratic hands for a crisis in which they played an integral role.. but that really is not the topic here.

I am no fan of Bush anymore than I am a fan of president Obama’s programs… the president in unabashed in spending federal dollars to sure up support from his base regardless of what you may say… If the Bush programs were viewed to be so bad by the Democrats why were they not repealed during the first two years of the Obama administration, they could have repealed or amended the medicare drug program, they could have chosen to not extend the tax cuts… stop living in the past. Your love to hang the label on Bush just because you can while not addressing the deficiencies of our current government, I really don’t care if it is the democrats or the republicans because as I see it both parties and their leadership have contributed greatly to our country arriving at an untenable economic position as it relates to taxation and government spending.. there is no good side here, only politicians who for their own survival refuse to confront the hard issues somehow thinking that they can continue to postpone the inevitable. Well, I for one think that it is safe to say that the inevitable is finally catching up with us and it is highly unimportant if you are republican or democrat, you should be demanding of your elected officials that they deal with the realities of the day.

Jack   You are so right.  I do income tax returns during the season.  I have found that those who are on some sort of government aid can always find a way to buy thier smokes even if they have to go without food for the family..  This includes selling food stamps.  Anyone who dosen’t believe this need to do taxes for a season, it is quite educational. 

Non sequitur.

Hmm, thats interesting. Who are you citing? Or are you making up economists. Go ahead and list some. I am very interested in who you present.

The education is not the issue. The issue is that individuals with lower income spend a disproportionate amount on cigarettes. Norquist can quote tax reform, that is fine, I just prefer him from not discussing issues he is not well versed in. He is arguably a tax expert, but I do not want to hear him discuss cigarette taxation. That is a separate issue. 

Look, I really don’t think that cigarette taxes are a very large issue when you put things in context.  I just responded because as best as I can tell it is a regressive tax as people in lower income brackets tend to smoke more than do those in higher brackets… in fact I am a smoker and have kinda paid attention to demographics when I came across them over the years.  Even worse in my mind than the regressive nature of tax on cigarettes is that in many states about 1/2 the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax and the state and local communities charge sales tax on the whole purchase price…  I don’t think that people should have to pay sales tax on the money that they are giving to the state and federal government in taxes..  but that is just me.  

Like I said earlier I am no fan of Norquist, I really did not enjoy the politics of this last year as I would like to see solutions to the problems that the country faces…  I want to see an overhaul of the tax code, it is now over 80,000 pages and no longer makes sense, a flatter and simpler code would serve the nation well, personal deductions could be set at a rate that would protect the working poor…

I am very tired of every people looking to the rich to pay to fix this country’s problems…  fix the tax codes and they will pay their share as will the rest of us….  and for all those who are looking to the government to fix all the problems in their lives at the expense of someone else…  well in my mind they are not really being realistic, and I would ask if this country is really worth saving, then shouldn’t we all pitch in and save it? Can we really look to the government to spend more and more so that we can be responsible to take care of less and less?  Can we really rebuild this country back in to the world’s leading economy and continue to have the greatest GDP if we make business pay for everything that we think we should be provided with while as individuals we expect to make little to no sacrifice? Can this country attract investment away from other countries if this is the perception of business leaders?  

I am very libertarian in my outlook, I very much identify with small government and free market economics…  It is not that I am jealous of anybody else, it is not that I have prejudices against any segments of the population, it is that I honestly do not believe that you can allow the government to control, tax, and regulate as much of our economy and our lives as this government has set out to do….  I do not like what Bush did anymore than I like what president Obama is doing, for me it is not the party but the principles of big government, something that republicans do not understand about their own party…..  they speak of small government and free markets but generally they govern to quite the opposite, there is no better example of this than was president Bush.  Both parties have showered favor and cutouts for industry and agriculture that if you really take a good look at it comes at an expense to the everyday citizen trying to get by…  In the long run it is destructive to the overall economy, as it prohibits a natural equilibrium that in the long term would be more productive than artificial conditions that the government has fostered.  

Anyway, take care. 

can someone tell me DOES HE HAVE A PLAN besides more tax cuts for the super-wealthy which have produced NOTHING in the last 10 yrs? all if hear is non-stop obama bashing – BUT WHAT A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE? FOR JOB CREATION? SOMETHING COHERENT? b/c more tax cuts R not going to stimulate the economy oR balance the budget.