Well, that’s really helpful in terms of diplomacy, Newt.    :)

Does Gingrich have a filter?   This chronic pandering needs to end.   But again, he’s not a serious candidate.    He’s selling books and is nothing more than a “lifestyle” candidate.

And the Israelis are not a recently-invented people?  Just ask Theodor Herzl, who came up with the modern concept of Zionism, or Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, who worked to revive Hebrew as a living language in the 19th century. There’s nothing wrong with any of this, of course, but let’s at least understand where the modern Israeli state came from.

The last people in the world who should be calling the Palestinians an “invented” people are Israelis and Americans (who did not even exist as a nation until the late 18th century – and arguably still do not constitute an ethnicity).

But, according to Gingrich, once an Arab, always just an Arab.  What a racist.

The Palestinians are kind of like the gypsies of the middle east, and have been kicked out of Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and who knows where else.  Its kind of funny that all these middle eastern countries now are so concerned about their welfare..

You need better source material.  The phrase “Land of Israel” goes back three millenia, or longer.  It largely describes the land that is known today as “Israel”.

Palestine is also an ancient name.  However, in antiquity, it was used to describe what we now call Jordan.

Palestinians do have a home and that home is called Jordan.

Are the Israelis that your referring to the same ones who were historically documented to exist as a people in the middle east since before the time of King David??
 
Is that the recently invented people you’re talking about?

Is this what people were talking about when they said Newt’s arrogance and mouth would be his undoing?
What does he care, it’s all money in the bank win or lose for him. What a great system.

…and Newt is an invented presidential candidate.

As part of the GOP’s Israeli health awareness week, in which the GOP orally inspects Israeli circumcisions, GOP frontrunner Newt Gingrich sits down with the totally nonpartisan “Jewish Channel” in an effort to get Arabs to mistrust us in our purported role of peace broker, more than they already do.

The irony of your statement is that Jews spoke of a Land of Israel because of a perceived shared history.  That is exactly what the Palestinians have.

But apparently the only people who have a right to determine who the Palestinians are is everyone but the Palestinians.  When others use this same line of logic against the Israelis to deny their right to live in Israel, this is called racism and anti-Semitism.

This guy is not a historian. Historian is not just someone who has a Bachelors degree in history. I am so glad none of my College professor’s were historians like Newt!

You sound smart….

You know you’ve got a problem when you’re far to the right of the policies of the country you’re trying to pander to.  Even all but the most right-wing Israelis (i.e. Avigdor Lieberman and the like) would consider Gingrich a fruitcake.

Ironically, the Israelis base their national identity in part on their history of exile.  Apparently the right to do that applies only to Israelis and not Palestinians.

He’s what is known as a “David Barton historian” – i.e. a polemicist who selectively cites historical records to give his nonsense an intellectual sheen.

You don’t.

Recently invented in terms of a nation with sovereign territory, actively spoken Hebrew lanaguage, a government and national identity and symbols – absolutely.

If we want to start using ancient ethnic attributes, then the Palestinians have a legitimate past as well.  They speak a langauge which has been in use for millenia, and they have ties to Palestine dating back centuries, if not millenia (Joan Peters’ nonsense notwithstanding).

The idea is not to say that the Palestinians are somehow better than the Israelis, or vice versa, but they are similar peoples in many respects. It serves no one to take an artificial, exclusivist view of the Israelis that give them special rights to determine what constitutes a nationality both for themselves and for others. The same applies equally for those Palestinians who deny Israel’s right to exist.

Of course. They are Muslim.

There is no century old Palestinian experience. There were no Palestinians until after 1967. Prior to that, they were either Egyptians (in Gaza) or Jordanians (in Judea and Samaria).

Israel and Israelites have thousands of years of recorded history.

What a coincidence, 80% of Newt’s Twitter followers are “invented” people. 

http://gawker.com/5826645/most-of-newt-gingrichs-twitter-followers-are-fake

How does calling people ‘invented’ help solve the problem? Oh wait, he doesn’t want to solve the problem. The US is going to have a president who says that? Really? Stupid. What an excuse of a human being this man is.

If by smart you mean to imply Smart Alec, or Smart Ass, I’ll accept the charge that my post carried more than a hint of snark. Now if you would like, feel free to address the criticism my post directs at the GOP blatantly currying favor with a foreign nation while this country positions itself, as an unbiased mediator, in a dispute between Israel and Palestine.

No, this is just a fact. That’s something different.

The GOP events was with the Republican Jewish Coalition. Those are American voters, not a foreign nation.

The Palestinians don’t want to solve the problem either, so…

Actually, the majority of Israelis and Palestinians have been demonstrated to want an end to this nonsense in poll after poll.  But a vociferous minority on both sides keeps the idiocy going.

True, but the Palenstinians have been in perpetual exile…point being that accepting that they are muslim with a historical “homeland” not in Isreal but in Jordan, all the Palenstinians are right now is a conduite used by other muslim countries to project their genetically coded hatred of jews, and justify violence perpetuated by Hamas.

And, believe me, if Isreal slid into the ocean tommorrow, the rest of the muslim middle east’s concern for the plight of the Palistineans having a place to live, would slide into the ocean with it. 

They have all had oppertunities to take in the Palistinians throughout history, and in every instance, they’ve given them the boot instead.

Thats because im a liberal

By your own logic, there were no Israelis until 1948, when they declared their state.

So how do Arab Israelis figure into that?

Yes, but the destruction of Israel isn’t an option and that’s the only one they really seem to unite around.

Snark off, for a moment. I’m not going grammar cop on you, but is “events” the typo or “was”? I ask because I am referring to the GOP’s (and quite a bit of Dems) boot-licking as a series of events. I am not referring to any singular event in and of itself. I refer to it in the broader context of the overall campaign. Efforts have been made by politicians in support of, not just Jewish American voters, but Israel, a foreign nation, itself.

Snark on. Are you still rocking that avatar? LMAO! You get a “come on son” for that one.

You sound like your describing one of my Marxist professors in college when educating us about the communist revolution in Russia and Cuba…

Gingrich has a PhD in HISTORY from Tulane, moron.

“they are muslim with a historical “homeland” not in Isreal but in Jordan”

Nonsense.  There was a strong Arab community in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Palestine that goes back centuries.  Did some Palestinians come from Jordan?  Sure they did.

Again, the exact same thing applies to the Israelis.  Do many of them have a long-term presence in Jerusalem?  Of course.  But many others have their origins in far-flung places in the world.  Golda Meier was born in Milwaukee.  Netanyahu comes from Philadelphia.  Many of the West Bank settlers come from New York and Brooklyn.  And yet they have the nerve to claim superior right to people who have actually been living on the land for centuries, if not millenia.

You know, there are plenty of Indian tribes who call large swaths of the U.S. their “homeland.”  If one of them came knocking on your door claiming to have superior right to your land (assuming you live in the U.S.), would you accept their claim and move out?

“And, believe me, if Isreal slid into the ocean tommorrow, the rest of the muslim middle east’s concern for the plight of the Palistineans having a place to live, would slide into the ocean with it.”

That actually supports the argument that the Palestinians are a distinct people, and not merely just a “bunch of Arabs.”

That’s like saying that the destruction of the United States is a valid option, because us English-speakers could just move to Canada with other white, English-speaking peoples.

What utter, racist nonsense. 

Nonsense comes in all forms, and from all sides of the political spectrum. Being leftist or rightist doesn’t innoculate you from spewing nonsense.

palestinians arent an invented people
israelites are
zionists dream to see a jewish country

The same way that a number of Jewish settlers have expressed an openness to Palestinian citizenship in order to live in the West Bank.

European History. It doesn’t make him an expert in Middle Eastern History.

President Obama hater’s gather round, especially if you’re a Ron Paul supporter. I’m going to throw you some scraps. I don’t think President Obama should be above criticism on Israel. I’m not referring to the ridiculous GOP criticism, that he doesn’t support Israel enough. Take for example his decision to automatically use US veto power to block Palestinian statehood. Was anyone planning to at least talk about this with the American people? Why do we not bother to consult the American people when making decisions in support of a foreign nation, that will make us the enemy of oil suppliers, make us targets of terrorism that will cost American lives, and precipitate our involvement in bankrupting wars? Yet, LMFAO, we will sit here and debate, all day until the cows come home, whether or not to aid our own countrymen with necessities like medical coverage. There could be great reasons for our avid support of Israel that outweigh all the negatives, but you don’t hear them because the support is so automatic our politicians and media don’t even bother trying to make the case. Just make sure to tune into your evening news so we can all discuss whether single mothers are lazy welfare queens mooching off our dollar and the poor bum who deserves to die because he couldn’t afford insurance. 

In other words: A man shouldn’t believe in an “ism,” he should believe in himself.

The point of describing both the Israelis AND the Palestinians as “invented” peoples is not to delegitimize them, but to point out that nationality is a shared self-identity, not some empirical fact.

If the Israelis and Palestinians see themselves as distinct peoples, however those views came about, that by definition is sufficient to make them nations, regardless of what other people may think or prefer.

who cares about a worthless piece of land that some fictional book said something impossible will happen at no specific time.

Newt..your jelly roll gut is sticking out.

Israel is real because Israelis base their entire existence on a fairy tale.  Palestine is invented because Palestinians don’t believe in the fairy tale.  You can’t get more Republican than that.

I can’t stand reading ridiculous comments like yours anymore, the Israelis have tried time and time again giving up land for peace that never comes, stop using stupid, ridiculous comparisons and admit that the palistinian leadership ( Hamas ) doesn’t want peace because then they would actually have to properly provide services for their people and no longer have the manufactured bogey man, so now they can continue to plunder all of the international money’s paid to keep the peace. Also I’m sick of people like you assigning racism as the reason people believe the opposite of your convoluted opinion.

You’re missing the point.  Saying there were no Israelis before 1948 is like saying there were no Iranians before 1935.  For thousands of years, there have been Persians in what is now known as Iran.  And, for an almost equal amount of time, there have been Jews in what is known as Israel, but over the millenia, has been known by a variety of names – but has also been known colloquially as “the Land of Israel” – ergo, we have people who throughout antiquity have been known as ethnic Jews and ethnic Persians.

That ENTIRELY different from the current “Palestine” controversy.  There have never before been Palestinians, just like there have never been “Appalachians” in America.  Instead, Appalachia was description of a particular geographic region in what is now known as Jordan.

Today, we have ethnic Jordanians and ethnic Egyptians living in Gaza, and the West Bank.  They belong to Egypt and Jordan, but surprise, surprise, neither the Egyptians nor the Jordanians want them.  But, there is no group of people with an ethnic Palestinian history.  They are quite simply an invented ethnic minority construct of the last 100-years (or less).

No, I’m saying that “isms” are an intellectual crutch, a shortcut, for those who aren’t interested taking the time or effort to sift through the infinite nuances of a complicated world.

@hoot13:disqus:

You’re going off on a tangent.  The topic here isn’t about who is to blame for the failure to reach a peace deal.  I think both sides have a lot of explaining to do.

The issue is whether the Palestinians are a “real” or an “imaginary” people.  A number of people argue that Palestinians aren’t real because they are ”just” Arabs.  That’s like saying the British are an imaginary people because they’re “just” white Aryans.

That kind of thinking is pure undistilled racism, and your attempt to divert the subject by talking about the peace process doesn’t change that fact.

He’s doing this because he’s got ADD and is still on a roll from appearing before the Republican Jewish Council, so maybe there’s some stray newrons in his brain telling him this – but really, this is very very stupid & a completely unnecessary ‘own goal’.

There are somewhere between 72k and 212k Palestinian Americans, so a small community, but they are far more influential than their numbers suggest; and moreover most of them are CHRISTIAN immigrants, because the Palestinian peoples actually have a fairly large Christian component and the USG at various times has been strongly inclined to favoring their applications for immigration into the US.

Chip, chip, chip, chip – I mean, it’s not as if the GOP was really expecting much in the way of support from the 1.5 million Arab American population base anyway, but the thing is this:

Palestinian Americans
Arab Americans
Black Americans
Chinese Americans
Japanese Americans
Mexican & other Hispanic Americans
Women
the unemployed
the working poor
the middle class …

add em up: after a while you get more than enough to defeat him in the presidential general.

[This of course does not mean I think for a moment that Gingrick won’t get the GOP nomination; I have no idea what the future months will bring. It just means that, if the GOP nominates Gingrick, then it’s Dandy Don Meredith Time: Turn out the lights … the party’s over.

Yes, I know. That’s what Ferris was saying too. What? It’s better than quoting Pokemon!

Wait, so the Torah and the Bible are fairy tales, but the Qur’an isn’t? Umm okay…

@USS_Republitarian:disqus:

You’re placing semantics over reality.  You place importance on the fact that the Palestinians were called Jordanians or Egyptians before 1967. But of course before 1920 they were called Palestinians or Ottomans. Indeed, the Jews who lived in Jerusalem also self-identified as “Palestinians” long before they perceived any articulable “Israeli” identity. Indeed, most Israelis once called themselves “Americans” or “Russians” or “Germans” or even “Persians” before they congregated in what is now the State of Israel and the West Bank.

Whatever the Arabs who have lived in what is now called Palestine have called themselves, the self-evident fact is that they have long-term ties to the land, manifested in a shared identity and coexistence.  And over the past century, they have collectively lived through shared tragedies and oppression which forms an ethic identity every bit as legitimate as the Israelis.  Though you may seek to deny it, your self-important opinion does not matter.  The only thing that matters is who THEY think they are, and they see themselves as Palestinians.

I didn’t say anything about the Koran. Please try to remember that you are a compulsive liar, so you don’t even realize when you’re lying.

The Palestinians deserve nothing. 

As I said the other day, they need to broaden their base.

Neither do the Israelis.  It comes down to what they’re both willing to accomplish.

“You’re placing semantics over reality. “

No, actually you’re the guy placing semantics over reality.

They still aren’t Palestinians.  They’re Egyptians/Jordanians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

However, the Iranians are still Persians, and the Israelis are still Jews – are now just as they have always been.  There has NEVER been anything ethnic group called “Palestinians” living where those Jordanians and Egyptians are living today – or living anywhere.

It’s a construct of modernity.  It’s a national construct as well as am ethnic construct.

“They still aren’t Palestinians. They’re Egyptians/Jordanians living in Gaza and the West Bank.”

By that standard, Bibi Netanyahu is a Philadelphian who thinks he’s a Middle Easterner.

“There has NEVER been any ethnic group called “Palestinians” living where those Jordanians and Egyptians are living today – or living anywhere.”

The Palestinians would disagree.  By virtue of that fact alone, you are wrong.  THEY get to determine who they are, not someone sitting in front of a computer thousands of miles away.

Care to elaborate? After that would you care to explain why, if that’s how we should feel, the US falsely positions itself as an intermediary working with both groups to attain peace and statehood?

…Wow!

Mr Gingrich, WOW!

A number of people here and elsewhere claim that there is no such thing as a “Palestinian,” and that such self-proclaimed people are actually Jordanians or Egyptians.  But that begs the question, on what basis is a person “Jordanian,” “Egyptian,” or even “American” for that matter?

We hear that Palestinians are an “invented” people.  But by that token, so are the Jordanians.  Prior to the creation of Transjordan in the 1920s, there were no “Jordanians.”  The reason there are Jordanians today is because that is what they consider themselves.

Same thing with Americans.  Up until two centuries ago, there were no “Americans” in the sense that word is used today.  Indeed, millions of people who call themselves Americans today were not Americans when they were born.

This is a roundabout way of saying that an ethnicity exists among those people who believe it exists precisely because they think it exists.  How it got to be that way is irrelevant as long as the belief in a shared identity exists. In a sense, all nationality is “invented.”  To claim that a certain group of people is not an ethnicity or a nation – despite their own belief to the contrary -  is to deny people the very right to determine their own identity.  Ironically, that denial also denies the ability of someone like Benjamin Netanyahu to move from Philadelphia to Israel and call himself an Israeli.  It also denies the right of Newt Gingrich to call himself American just because he thinks he is one.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding…we have a winner.

What on earth are you even talking about? How am I a compulsive liar? Who the hell are you? This is the first comment I’ve even posted here in MONTHS and you’re going to accuse me of being a compulsive liar because I dared to call you out on the hypocrisy of your statement. Evidence sure seems to indicate that it is YOU who is the compulsive liar.

You said, “Israel is real because Israelis base their entire existence on a fairy tale. …Palestinians don’t believe in the fairy tale.”

The Palestinians don’t believe in THE fairy tale? Okay fine. But they DO believe in their OWN ‘fairy tale’. A ‘fairy tale’ that tells them that anyone who does not believe their ‘fairy tale’ must be taught to believe said ‘fairy tale’ or be eliminated and use this ‘fairy tale’ to justify THEIR right to make the nation of Israel a strictly Muslim nation at the expense of the genocide of the Jewish people. If you’re going to make the lame ‘fairy tale’ argument you have to be consistent.

But alas I know I’m speaking to a closed mind. Perusing your posts it’s evident you’re one of the many liberals who prefers to engage in the tactic of name-calling and personal attacks rather than have an intelligent adult conversation. Please keep it up. It exposes you and those like you for who you really are.

Regardless of all the efforts being made to manipulate Jewish opinion in America, 80% of Jews will still vote for Democrats. They’re just like those ‘plantation’ Blacks, or maybe they know that rightwingers have always had an anti-human agenda, which, thankfully is finally collapsing.  Does anyone in their right mind think that Obama would ever abandon the Israeli’s.

Like Cain. Just a big book selling tour.

If you say anything of substance Pablo usually doesn’t read it with much comprehension. This happens every single day. It’s kind of amazing actually.

No.  But those who aren’t in their right mind have plenty to choose from on the GOP side this year.

He’s calling you out because you set up a straw man argument to debate against rather than his actual point. His point was to illustrate his belief of how Republicans came to view Israel as real, but Palestine as not. Your straw man does nothing to support or counter that claim. At best it demonstrates two wrongs.

Sure. But the point is, why is it that Israel has to absorb “Palestinians”?  Why not Jordon? Why is it they should be given a state carved out of Israel?

They can consider themselves “Palestinians” from within another Arab land.

First, your focus on Jordan is quizzical.  In 1988, Jordan relinquished all claims to the West Bank in favor of the PLO, and its successor, the Palestinian Authority.  Therefore, the only claimants to the West Bank are the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Israel, of course, does not have to “absorb” the Palestinians.  It could agree to a two-state solution on the territory of the former Palestine Mandate – which is the only functional equivalent of Jordanian “absorption.”  Alternatively, it could simply annex the West Bank and give the Palestinians Israeli citizenship.  Indeed, Newt Gingrich’s view that the Palestinians are an illusory people is one of the strongest arguments for Israeli annexation.

The Israelis have avoided annexation for a simple reason – to do so would create a majority of non-Jewish citizens of the State of Israel.  Rather than ceasing building settlements and enacting a two-state solution, the Israeli government continues to prefer ambiguity by giving lip service to a peace deal while still building settlements.

But at some point, the number and dispersal of settlements in the West Bank will make anything but a one-state solution functionally unworkable.  Indeed, that point has probably already been reached.  In other words, Israel may already have effectively “absorbed” the Palestinians while denying them the rights that they would be entitled to under a one-state solution.

Jews have one set of standards for israel (ethnostate, armed to the teeth, with racial identity protected by racist immigration and anti-miscegenation laws). However, in Europe and the US the majority of jews curiously endorse mass immigration and multiculturalism. As that notable right winger George Bernard Shaw once asked: When are jews going to stop being jews and start being human beings?

If people believe we are created, wouldn’t that make us all invented?

Excellent points. He is factually accurate.

No, you’re missing my point.  How about having fellow Arabs in Jordan, carving out a piece of their country, however, small, to become a Palestinian state?

Obviously they avoided add Palestinians for this, but if fellow Arabs want piece, Jordon should give up some of their territory and Israel should give a little of theirs, otherwise Palestinians can move throughout the Arab world.

They want violence, Israel can crush them in a few hours.

And Khazar Ashkanazi Jews are now “Semitic”, entitled to a homeland in Semite lands..

Right.

Why weren’t they given a homeland in Europe after WWII? 
Did the Palestinians pull off the German camp genocide?
Shouldn’t every group that has been a victim of genocide be awarded a safe homeland, or are the Jews somehow special?

You’ve just described the most of the Israeli’s who make up modern Israel.  You only have to be Jewish to gain citizenship in Israel.  Jews have come from every corner of the earth to live in Israel since it’s founding in 1948.  Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled Israel in 1946 when Jews began to flood into the region illegally after WWII.  To this day Palestinians live in refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan.

At the time of the Israeli invasion of Palestine as many as 30% of Palestinians were Christians.

The former Palestinian mandate is home to both Israelis and Palestinians.  There is no reason why the rights of one people to live in its homeland should be preferred over another on the basis of race.

If some Palestinians should have to relocate out of the West Bank to ease demographic concerns, why shouldn’t some Israelis reciprocate and move back to the U.S. or Europe?

Gingrich refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Zionist movement
took over ‘Historical Palestine’ with an illegal mandate and through murder and
genocide. He thinks that it is tragic that Palestinians have been fighting the ‘invented’
modern Israel since the 1940s while dismissing what happened previously. Any nation,
country or people would not accept to die out and be kicked out without a fight.
The fact that Palestinians did not disappear or fade away is a result of the integrative
power that they poses as a nation and people which can only be realised among
strong ties between nations.  That is
what the Native Indian Americans did, what the black South Africans did under apartheid
and what the Jews did under Nazi rule.

When the Israelites crossed the river Jordan into historical
Palestine with David and before him with Ibrahim, they moved into an inhabited
land with villages, town and cities. David fought an army. Armies do not get
invented for sure. If you refuse to accept that today’s Palestinians are the decedents
of those original inhabitants of Palestine before the Israelite tribes invaded
their land, then how can anyone accept that today’s Jews (who are of different
ethnic backgrounds; Russian, Ethiopian, Arab and Caucasian) are not invented or
could be traced back to those Israelite tribes?

I’m sorry, I thought Israel was a Jewish state. Israel is within its rights.  If the Palestinians don’t like it there, they can move to the surrounding Arab countries, except OH WAIT they don’t want the Palestinians either.

“Newt is what a stupid person thinks an intelligent person sounds like.” All those who defend this monster, this fool and self serving wind bag are morons. Good night. 

Think about it the other way.Why should the Jews be given land in Palestine?
That’s what happened. The Jews invaded Palestine. You are probably to young to realize that Israel hasn’t even been a country for 64 years yet. The Palestinians were in Palestine for hundreds of years. How about we give your parents and grandparents homes away from them. Not, giving them any money for them…Shoot, why don’t we give the State you live in to the Jews. Yes, that means you must leave the State.

Now I want to know what you would feel about it…But wait, you speak English why not just move to Canada.

Also learn how to use spell check. It’s Jordan.

Perspective

The
Truth About Terrorism Is Contained in Encyclopedia Entries

by Isaac Melton

Growing
up in a Houston, TX neighborhood with a large Jewish population, I
have been on the fringe of Jewish society since I was seven years
old. In my high school (San Jacinto), many classes were reduced in
size by two-thirds or more on Jewish holidays.

One
summer I went to Scout camp with the troop from the nearby temple. I
spent a lot of my free time talking with a lovely old Jewish
patriarch named Mr. Mittelman from “the old country. ” He
increased my insight into traditional Jewish religion and told me
moving tales of the Nazi persecution he had survived. I continue to
have the deepest respect for and interest in traditionalist Jews and
their religion.

I grew
up assuming that the Jews had a God given right to the land of
Israel. After all, isn’t that what the Bible teaches? But in my late
teen years, as an Anglo-Catholic (“high church
Episcopalian”), I learned the traditional Orthodox Catholic
teaching that the Church, not some modern secular political entity,
is the “New Israel.”

The New
Testament teaches that through and in Christ, the Church is the
continuation of ancient Israel. Baptized into the Body of Christ, we
Christians become Children of Israel by adoption and grace. This
teaching, also traditionally accepted by Roman Catholics, Anglicans
and Lutherans, is roundly denied by large numbers of fundamentalist
Protestants, who see the secular state of Israel as the fulfillment
of Old Testament Prophecy. That view has contributed significantly
to American foreign policy.

Still,
until I was in my 40s, I continued to believe that there was
certainly nothing wrong with the Jewish state of Israel, and I
believed the Jews had every right to it. I couldn’t fathom what
those crazy Arabs were upset by. A bunch of fanatic tent dwellers, I
thought. I realize now that this mental image of the Palestinians
was engendered by the American media. It certainly appears the media
bias is pro-Israel, and favors the Palestinians only when their
mistreatment is so blatant it can’t be ignored.

I’m
still in favor of the Jews having a homeland. The Church’s belief
that She is Herself Israel, renewed in Christ, does not imply we
would deny the Jews their rights as a people. And Israel is an
accomplished fact: let it stand. But now that I know in detail the
story of this modern Jewish state, I’m very disheartened by the way
the Israelis have accomplished their purpose.

My
change in thinking was the result of a dinner party conversation in
1983 with an elderly Palestinian immigrant who attended the same
church I did. Aziz, a fun to be with roly poly Orthodox Christian,
now departed this life, remarked he had once met Yasser Arafat and
thought of him as a great leader. He even showed me a picture of
himself and Arafat together. I was horrified.

“But
he is such an evil terrorist,” said I.

“No
more so than Menachem Begin,” replied Aziz.

“Begin!?”
I cried. “But he is such a spiritual man. I remember how
when he met with President Carter at Camp David he prayed in Hebrew
on television. I was very moved by that. How can you call that
beautiful old man a terrorist?” I asked, while thinking to
myself, these Arabs sure are fanatics.

“It’s
a matter of history, ” he replied. “Go to the library and
look it up.�

So I
did.

Looking It Up

I
started with the encyclopedias, first the Encyclopedia
Britannica. Looking up “Begin, Menachem, ” I learned
that Menachem Begin “joined the militant Irgun Zvai Leumi, and
was a commander of that group from 1943 to 1948. ”
(Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 2, page 47.)

What
exactly was the Irgun Zvai Leumi? So I looked that up. The Irgun was
“an extreme nationalist group … whose policies called for the
use of force, if necessary, to establish a Jewish state on both
sides of the Jordan. Irgun committed acts of terrorism and
assassination against the British … and it was also violently
anti-Arab. . . ” (Encyclopedia Brittanica, Volume 6,
page 382.)

According
to Colliers Encyclopedia (Volume 3, page 782), “Another
such group was the Stern Group, or Stern Gang, headed by Yitzhak
Shamir. ” In Volume 13, page 343, Colliers speaks of
“the terrorist groups, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern
Group.”

In the Encyclopedia
Americana, contributor J. C. Hurewitz of Columbia University
tells us “the Irgunists claimed that their acts of terrorism
against the Arabs and British largely forced Britain’s decision to
end its mandate in Palestine. ” (Volume 15, page 438.) These
terrorist acts included the murder of the British representative,
Lord Moyne, in Cairo in November 1944 and the murder of Count Folke
Bernadotte, the UN-appointed mediator, on Sept. 17, 1948.

The Americana
tells us, “Shamir was believed to have played a prominent
part in planning the murders of a British minister and a UN
diplomat.” (Volume 24, page 665.)

I’m very
disheartened by the way the Israelis have accomplished their
purpose.

In the Britannica
Year Book for 1948, page 577, under the entry
“Palestine” I read, “Meanwhile the [Jewish] terrorist
attacks in Palestine continued, taking almost every conceivable
form. Attacks on airfields and radar stations, armories and military
posts, the wrecking of railway lines … and bank holdups all bore
witness to organization on a larger, dangerous and ingenious scale,
and were by general admission made possible chiefly by the active or
passive support which the terrorists received from the great
majority of the Jewish population [in Palestine].”

Returning
to the Britannica (Volume 6, page 382), 1 learned that
“On July 22, 1946 the Irgun blew up a wing of the King David
Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 soldiers and civilians … On April
9, 1947 [remember Menachem Begin was at the time leader of the Irgun],
a group of Irgun commandos raided the Arab village of Dayr Yasin
[also spelled Deir Yassin] killing all 254 of its inhabitants.
” That massacre occurred some 60 years after Wounded Knee,
about which we all know. But how many Americans know about the
massacre at Deir Yassin and its direct contribution to the conflict
in the Middle East today? How many Americans realize that “this
highly publicized act terrorized the Arab villagers, who began a
mass exodus from Palestine”? (Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume
22, page 143.)

Twenty
minutes of study and I realized Aziz’s remark that Begin was a
terrorist was hardly a symptom of Palestinian fanaticism. And not
only Begin, but Yitzhak Shamir, his friend and successor in the
Israeli government. I had to dig to get this information, but there
it was. Why hadn’t I ever read about this in the papers? Heard it on
TV or the radio?

With my
tail between my legs, the next Sunday after Liturgy I apologized to
Aziz for not believing him. He laughed and said Americans usually
react the way I did. Now he told me more, about how his family moved
to Ramallah (now in the occupied West Bank) in the l3th century
(!) from Syria. They owned a sizable piece of property upon
which they had established a lovely orange grove which the Israelis
confiscated shortly after moving into the area in 1967. He told me
how after the massacre at Deir Yassin and the consequent Palestinian
exodus, the Israelis simply took title to the real estate of the
fleeing Palestinians as “abandoned property. ” When
Palestinians tried to return home, they found they had nothing left
to their names.

Ramallah,
along with Bethlehem, Nazareth, and a number of other Palestinian
towns, have long been predominantly Christian. Aziz told me that
some 25 percent of the Palestinians are Christians, of whom half are
Orthodox. I have read that figure in several other places. But you
get the impression from the media that all Arabs are Muslims. Have
you ever seen a documentary or even a news story focusing on the
Christian Palestinians?

The Anguish of
the Dispossessed

He told
me that the Zionist slogan “A people without a land for a land
without people,” was sheer nonsense, for a very large
population of Palestinian Arabs had lived there for more than a
thousand years. Arab fury at Israel is based not on some sort of
wild hysteria: it is the anguish of people who have been
systematically and ruthlessly dispossessed from their homeland and
personal property.

The
Zionist movement began sponsoring Jewish settlement in Palestine
early in this century. At first the Arabs and the Jews got along
well. But more and more Jews began to move in before World War 11,
and the idea spread among the Arabs that the Jews were planning to
take over Palestine completely for themselves. The rapid influx at
the end of World War 11 increased Palestinian Arab fears. To take
over completely was in fact precisely the plan, and still is. The
actions of Begin and Shamir, now recognized as great statesmen and,
unlike Arafat, welcome in the United States, have made that clear.

So of
course the Palestinians were and are upset! You would be too! The
irony of all this is that the Zionists claim all of Palestine on the
grounds God gave it to them 3,000 years ago, but the majority of
Israeli Jews are “not religious.” Probably most of them
are agnostics or even atheists. So it’s as if they are saying,
“There is no God, but He gave us this land, and we intend to
take it all.”

In any
conflict it takes “two to tango,” and there are of course
two sides to this issue Arabs have certainly committed their
atrocities, starting before World War II. The Arabs have made their
mistakes, and in several cases have failed to take responsibility.
Both sides have refused compromises, and at this date, compromise
they must, or we’ll all be destroyed in a new holocaust. Also, I
hate “Jew bashing,” and I’m at pains that this admittedly
forthright criticism of the state of Israel not be construed as
that.

But it
seems “Arab bashing” is quite okay in this country, and we
only faintly hear the Arab side of the story. It’s okay to
caricature Arabs unkindly, but no one would dare so abuse the Jews.
We all remember how Leon Klinghoffer was thrown into the sea in his
wheelchair by Arab terrorists. But how many remember that Alex Odeh,
a spokesman for the Arab viewpoint, was also murdered that same week
by Jewish terrorists in Los Angeles! Alex also had loved ones; his
murder was as tragic as Klinghoffer’s.

Up until
the intifada, the media created impression was that the Jews are
always the good guys, and the Arabs the bad guys. Media coverage of
the intifada, however, has brought home to Americans how brutal the
Israeli military very often can be. I sometimes wonder if it has
sunk into the brains and hearts of the American public that most of
the Palestinians killed by the Israeli troops have been teenage
boys. Two I have read about were shot in the head for writing
slogans on the wall! Can you imagine the outcry if American soldiers
were shooting down rock-throwing Black or Hispanic youthful
protesters or gunning down young boys writing antigovernment slogans
on a wall! Ironically, American Jews would be the first to protest,
and justly so!

Raising Jewish
Voices

I have
no negative agenda for the Jews. I do indeed wish them well. But in
the name of integrity and decency, let’s have more prominent Jewish
voices raised, confessing the Israeli part in the Middle East mess.
The whining of some columnists, “We’re always innocent victims,
first it was Hitler, and now it’s the Arabs” is being
consciously used to manipulate public policy, and that is
disgusting. The Jews were innocent in Nazi Germany. But the Israelis
are hardly innocent of great offenses.

I see
some Jewish leaders setting themselves up for backlash, and I wish
they’d take heed. The perception is growing that powerful Jewish
interests wish to control our politicians’ votes on, and media
coverage of, Israeli questions. I don’t know if that’s the truth:
but it would help dispel that perception if vocal and courageous
Jewish leaders would encourage both dissemination of media
information about Israel’s dark side and public debate on Israeli
issues. We certainly know plenty about the Arab dark side!

We’re
told by Israel that its policy is none of our business, but we
American taxpayers are asked to foot Israeli bills. Israel now wants
more dollars, and I’ll be very surprised if that gets debated in
public. What a subtle form of taxation without representation! Why
shouldn’t we publicly debate this like any other multi-billion
dollar issue?

The Arab
world can only become filled with rage when virtually every person
in the street knows full well the US has tolerated Israel’s
continued incursions into foreign territory and other violations of
international law, but has attacked Iraq, ostensibly for its
violations of international law. For the life of me I don’t know how
any of the liberal Jews I knew in the days of the civil rights
struggle and the antiwar movement in the ’60s and ’70s can stomach
these double standards. Today some have become Jewish jingoists,
saying, “My Israel, right or wrong.”

The war
in the Gulf was certainly not simply a long-term result of the way
the Zionist movement has proceeded in the past 50 or 60 years. The
Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not the only serious issue
afflicting the Arabs. But only if you are blind to or ignorant of
history can you fail to recognize the destabilizing effect Israel’s
policies have had on the Middle East. In response, demagogues like
Saddam Hussain will continue to emerge unless wrongs are redressed
and apologies offered.

I
believe that if the Zionists from the beginning had been willing to
share Palestine with the native Arabs, without wanting to take over
completely, there would have been no major strife. Contrary to
popular opinion, at several times in history the Jews and the
Muslims have gotten along very well. The Jews rose to great heights
in Islamic Spain. When, after the Reconquista, Isabella and
Ferdinand exiled the Jews, the Muslim sultan of Turkey sent ships to
bring them to his domain! A Sephardic rabbi in Atlanta once told me
the sultan wrote Isabella thanking her for sending him her crown
jewels.

I
believe if Israel today will quit its ruthless expansionism and
begin to respect the God given civil rights of the Palestinians, the
strife will be reduced to the point where there is no physical
violence. I would like to see more American Jews who would like to
see Israel change its tactics speak up openly and loudly, because
their voices will be heard in Israel.

Let us
pray for peace in the Middle East, that justice and love will
prevail. Let us pray that the Palestinian-Israeli issue will become
a matter of open discussion in this country.

You are an anti-Israel hack.

We’re not talking about me or the US, we’re talking about the facts on the ground in Israel.  If the Palestinians want a state, they can get some land from fellow Arabs or they simply move to other Arab lands. 

I don’t need how to do anything, BooBoo. Put on your pants and get your diploma.

What is the answer in today’s society?

You’re a Republican.  Your natural instinct is lie lie about everything and you have no concept of logic.  I can spot you people in a second.

Come on Jeremy…Please don’t tell me that you don’t know about the history of Israel. Israel has only been a nation since 1948.

I know when I was younger I was ‘gung ho’ for Israel too. That is until I saw and heard what my father said about the issue. You see he was in his teens when the Jews began their terroristic campaign against both the Arabs & the British. They even killed everyone in a few towns. Read the post above that begins with Perspective.

Also, just so you know not all Palestinians are Muslim. Many are Christian, since this is the Christmas season just so you know the mayor of Bethlehem by law must be a Christian. Also during the holiday season the Orthodox Patriarch in Israel get spat upon by the Jews. “Orthodox Patriarch” is the Eastern Christian Rite’s version of a Pope.

Newt’s intellect in comparison to the rest of the GOP field has been compared to being the “tallest building in Wichita.”

The answer is definitely not to support
someone like Gingrich or any other benefactors from the continuity of the
conflict. Also, the answer is not to let Israel transform into another Fascist
state that thrive on radicalisation. That builds roads for one race only while
stealing private property.

The answer is to return to the lessons
learned after WWII and written in the UN charter, Universal human rights
declaration and Fourth Geneva convention. The answer is to stop protecting the aggressor
and force all parties to uphold their responsibilities and commitments that
they signed on. The answer is to stop finding excuses for Israeli murder and
starvation of Palestinians. The answer is to establish a world order where all
states are Peace loving states and not land grabbing ones.

Hopefully they’ve raised their standards since he matriculated.

M_J_S:

“I’m sorry, I thought Israel was a Jewish state. Israel is within its rights.”

That is wholly irrelevant to the inhabitants of the West Bank, which is not within the State of Israel.

“If the Palestinians don’t like it there, they can move to the surrounding Arab countries, except OH WAIT they don’t want the Palestinians either.”

THat’s nonsensical.  The Palestinians, obviously, prefer to remain where they are.  It’s people like you who apparently have a problem with that by proposing they be moved to Jordan or who knows elsewhere.

You do realize that about 33% of Palestinians are Christian not Muslim.

I don’t think the “anti-Israel hack” label carries much weight when coming from someone who clearly has an anti-Palestinian animus.

As for your basic assertion, the Palestinians already live in the land they intend for their state.  The Jordanians have abandoned any claims to it, and the Israelis have opted to forcibly settle people there rather than annex it.  There’s no rational reason for the Palestinians to go anywhere else.

don’t mind him, he eats man’s best friend…

Tell that to the mayor of Betheleham who under law must be a Christian.
33% of the Palestinians are Christians not Muslims. If you think they are all Muslims then your parents are Muslims too.

{I’m fairly sure your parents are Christians or at least not Muslims}

You need to study history more. You must have never heard of the Jewish Diaspora.

“They want violence, Israel can crush them in a few hours.”

So, what you’re saying is, why waste time carrying on with an inconvenient debate about the rights of a people to live in its homeland when racial cleansing presents such a convenient short cut?

Can’t quite say I’m on board with that. But then that’s just me.

And here I thought that the Jews were invaded by Babylon in 587 BCE and sent into exile. So let’s to some math. If the area had been “given” to the Jews 3000 years ago, but they left 2588 years ago. It kinda means that the land is the Palestinians.Since they have been there for the last 2588 years.

No offense to your well-thought out reply but that’s just semantics.

Bash minorities, it’s the teabagger way.

Newt is nothing but a whore who will tell you anything for a few dollars.

USS_Republitarian
Let’s guess a few things. You were either home schooled or went to a Christian School that didn’t teach Middle Eastern history. I’m sure that you remember in the Bible, Solomon’s  Temple and the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar II conquering the Jews. He destroyed the Temple and sent Jews to Babylon aka Jewish Diaspora. Meaning that they left the area. Since the majority of Jews left the area 2598 years ago, but you have Palestianians living in that area for 2535 years. {587 BC + 2011=2598, 2598-63=2535} 63 being the age of Israel since statehood in 1948. So once again there were Palestinians there for 2535 years without many Jews.

That is as accurate a statement as I have seen.

However, when that “shared self-identity” includes killing all of the other nation’s people and taking their land, well, then you have the Arafat created modern Palestinians. And that is the problem in a nutshell.

Israel would agree to peace tomorrow if the Palestinians would recognize their right to exist and cease the terror attacks. The Palestinians (both Fatah and Hamas) do not recognize Israel’s right to exist and refuse to budge on that or on stopping the rockets and other attacks. Even with that, Israel has left 95 percent of Palestinian land and in return, gets attacked daily from those very lands.

Kind of hard to see them as a legitimate negotiator for peace.

If the Israelis and Palestinians see themselves as distinct peoples,
however those views came about, that by definition is sufficient to make
them nations, regardless of what other people may think or prefer.

So, several millenia of recorded history versus a recent political whim, and they’re pretty much the same thing? Interesting.

then you have the Arafat created modern Palestinians

Exactly right. Who was the previous Palestinian leader? There wasn’t one. They have no history as a united people. And when they’re not killing Israelis, they’re killing each other. 

No, there have never before been a “Palestinian” people. Ever. No leaders. No borders. No currency. No history. None.

Jerusalem was the Israeli capitol 3000 years ago.

THEY get to determine who they are, not someone sitting in front of a computer thousands of miles away.

So, if they decide they’re Native Americans that settles it? Ridiculous. Palestinians have a history. It goes back about 40 years, which is Gingrich’s point.

Traditionally, they were Bedouins. They were constantly moving. 

No, it’s not on the exile. It the stuff prior to their exile. You know, Israel.

Why do you lie?

Palestinian Christians have deep roots in the land. The great majority,
estimated at 400,000 worldwide or roughly 6.5 percent of all Palestinians,
are of indigenous stock, whose mother tongue is Arabic and whose history
takes them back, or at least some of them, to the early church. At present,
the 50,000 Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip make up only 2.2
percent of the total population estimated in the mid-nineties at 2,238,0001.

http://www.al-bushra.org/holyland/sabella.htm

That would be a ridiculous pipe dream. Arabs not only live in Israel, they serve in the Knesset. So, reality = fantasy?

Are you still getting outraged at things you said that you’ve decided to ascribe to others?

I implied nothing. If the Israelis wanted to destroy the Palestinians, as Palestinians love to claim, they’d be dead by now.

You know, by that logic,  Americans are an invented people too.

Really?  Why are Palestinians mentioned in the Bible?  The old testament too, which is more than few centuries old.  Goliath was a Palestinian.

well there was no Israel.  It was always called Judea. 

Wonder how native Americans feel about this “Jews were destined to have Israel” horseshit.

Is this really that controversial? I thought this is what Israelis, Jews and supporters of Jews and Israel believed.     

Obama says that he supports Israel, so he must believe this as well……..right?

exactly, the israeli prime minister said no country has survived mass immigration.jews want it here because a cohesive christian society would not put up with their treachery.

we want jews/aipac/adl/ to be rounded up and deported, why can’t you filth go find another country to feed off and ruin from within.

says the jew piece of human garbage

the torah and koran are nearly identical, only the new testament is valid. the torah and talmud are radical self serving jewish nonsense

8 hours to come up with that? I’m not the one that responded to a comment remarking on the fact there have always been successful African Americans, even during the time of slavery, and questioning what the existence of those anomalies meant in the face of the overall oppression of the group, by replying that if you’re not one of them it’s your own fault. Keep on trying to deny. That’s why you’re viewed as a joke around here. Come on son.

“A majority of 56 % of Palestinian Christians now live outside the country”  Are you intentionally dishonest or did you just think no one would check the link you provided.  The above is the first sentence of the next paragraph you conveniently left out.

My own ancestors lived in the same village in Palestine for over 800 years and while they traveled they were not Bedouins. My jeddah (grandmother) would tell us repeatedly in the 1960s that we are of Palestine. And though she died in the 1970s I can still hear her words.

That makes absolutely no sense. Of course saying Israelis are an ”invented people” implies they are not a legitimate race. On the other hand, saying Palestinians are not a distinct race would be factual.  

Poor semantics based on inaccurate assumptions!

There has never been a Palestinian state recognized by any country in the world.

It is refering to the southwestern coastal are of Isreal inhabited by the Philistines. Not Palestinians! 

They’re concerned because they don’t want them coming back into lands they’ve been kicked out of!

Your assuming there is such a people called Palestinians…there isn’t! It’s a made up term describing a bunch of people kicked out of other countries who inhabit a town called Palestine. There is no country, nor has there ever been a country called Palestine.

How the hell does that statement support your imbecilic jump at making up a country, and a distinct people that inhabit it? Neither exist on any level?! Damn is it that hard to understand?!!

I thought that this guy was supposed to be a historian. Maybe he has had too many wives to remember.

I suppose that he missed this in his studies.

Specific references to “Palestine” date back nearly five hundred
years before “the time of Jesus.” In the 5th Century BCE, Herodotus, the
first historian in Western civilization, referenced “Palestine”
numerous times in chronicle of the ancient world, The Histories,
including the following passage describing “Syrians of Palestine”:

“…they live in the coastal parts of Syria; and that region of Syria
and all that lies between it and Egypt is called Palestine.” (VII.89)
The above translation by Harry Carter is featured in the 1958 Heritage
Press edition of Herodotus’ famous work. Both older and newer versions
corroborate the accuracy of the reference. A. D. Godley’s 1920
translation of the crucial line states, “This part of Syria as far as
Egypt is all called Palestine”, while Robin Waterfield’s 1998 updated
Oxford translationrenders the passage this way: “This part of Syria, all
the way to the border with Egypt, is known as Palestine.”

A hundred years later, in the mid-4th Century BCE, Aristotle made
reference to the Dead Sea in his Meteorology. “Again if, as is fabled,
there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and
throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we
have said,” he wrote. “They say that this lake is so bitter and salt
that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake
them it cleans them.” (II.3)

Two hundred years later, in the mid-2nd Century BCE, ancient
geographer Polemon wroteof a place “not far from Arabia in the part of
Syria called Palestine,” while Greek travel writer Pausanias wrote in
his Description of Greece, “In front of the sanctuary grow palm-trees,
the fruit of which, though not wholly edible like the dates of
Palestine, yet are riper than those of Ionia.” (9.19.8)

The noted Alexandrian Jewish philosopher Philo, writing around the
1stCentury CE, opined, “Also Syria in Palestine, which is occupied by no
small part of the very populous nation of the Jews, is not unproductive
of honourable virtue.” (XII.75)

The Jewish historian Josephus (c.37-100 CE) was born and raised in
Jerusalem, a military commander in Galilee during the First Jewish
Revolt against the occupying Roman authority, acted as negotiator during
the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE and later penned vital volumes of
Levantine Jewish history. His The Jewish War, Antiquities of the Jews, and Against Apion all
contain copious references to Palestine and Palestinians.

Towards the
end of Antiquities, Josephus writes, “I shall now, therefore, make an
end here of my Antiquities; after the conclusion of which events, I
began to write that account of the war; and these Antiquities contain
what hath been delivered down to us from the original creation of man,
until the twelfth year of the reign of Nero, as to what hath befallen the Jews, as well in Egypt as in
Syria and in Palestine, and what we have suffered from the Assyrians
and Babylonians, and what afflictions the Persians and Macedonians, and
after them the Romans, have brought upon us; for I think I may say that I
have composed this history with sufficient accuracy in all things.” (XX.11.2)

You don’t know anything about Palestinians, of course.

The point is, you can’t have a president saying what Gingrich is saying about anyone. What if someone said the same thing about modern Israel? He is pathetic. 

How sad reading all these comments… the condoning of the annual or biennial ceremonial killing of of thousands of innocents, re-creation of history, imprisoning of millions in the Gaza strip, attempts at ethnic cleansing.. all in the name of religion

If Israel is confident and not insecure in its legitimacy as a state, why the armies of lobbyists in this country and the so called anti-defamation outfits commissioned to what amounts to state-sponsored ‘news’ firewalls designed to stifle debate and dumb down the average American so statements such that by Gingrich go uncontested

The existence of the Arab people is real.
The attempt to sort them into nationalistic groups is an exercise in futility;
an Arab is an Arab wherever he lives.

Let’s see now.  The Palestinians were just there for over 2000 years.  Rather than try to work something out, their land and homes were just taken.  Kind of reminds me of the American Native Americans plight.

I hate to admit it, but Gingrich is correct.  The idea of Palestinians as a distinct and separate subgroup of Arabs is a relatively recent invention.  Now, one can also argue the same thing about Israelis, but they can argue that they have an ancestral tie to the ancient states of Israel and Judea.   To make a similar case, the Palestinians would have to rename themselves something like Canaanites or Philistines, but even then it would be a more dubious connection (the modern Israelis, like the ancient Israelites, are mainly Jewish, but while the Palestinians occasionally engage in human sacrifice, they aren’t polytheists like the Canaanites and Philistines).

As a a Palestinian I am deeply offended by his comments.   I am pretty sure I am “real.”  All people should have the right to self-determination, even us Arabs.  It shows once again how powerful the Israeli government is in influencing U.S. politics.

Yes. We were invented a couple of hundred years ago, around the time we created a country. We’re a bit better established now.

Americans are an odd lot in that anyone can become an American.

Wrong. That’s like saying “There was no America. It was called Virginia.”

Judea was part of Israel. You could look it up.

Cite, please.

And Obama is an idiot incapable of leadership on any level.

Recently invented symbols? Like the Star of David? Yeesh.

No, there’s no lie at all in that. Christians make up 6.5% of Palestinians. Of that 6.5%, 56% live outside Palestine. What part of that confuses you?

BTW, I conveniently left out the next 40+ paragraphs. It’s damned inconvenient (to the reader) to paste entire lengthy articles.

And yet they have the nerve to claim superior right to people who have
actually been living on the land for centuries, if not millenia.

Who are there centuries old Palestinians? BTW, Arafat was born in Cairo.

Illegally? Huh?

Also, the mass Arab exodus was prior to the Six Day War, when they were told to get out of the way while Israel was destroyed. That’s where the refugee camps came from.

Nope, about 10 seconds, dirtbag. I’d much rather be me than you. I have no problem standing behind the things I’ve said, nor do I have any reason to pretend someone else said them.

I wrote an article for the student newspaper about a debate between Palestinians on the issue of statehood.

I agree.

Pablo the Palestinian Arabs were under Turkish occupation for 400 years before the British came in 1917 and left in 1948. Not much opportunity for conspicuous national leadership.

Further making a mockery of the notion of Gingrich being a historian

Eighty-four
ethics charges were filed against Speaker Gingrich during his term, including
claiming tax-exempt status for a college course run for political purposes.
Following an investigation by the House Ethics Committee Gingrich was sanctioned. Gingrich acknowledged in
January 1997 that “In my name and over my signature, inaccurate,
incomplete and unreliable statements were given to the committee”.  The House Ethics Committee concluded that
inaccurate information supplied to investigators represented “intentional
or … reckless” disregard of House rules. The special Counsel concluded
that Gingrich violated federal tax law and had lied to the ethics panel in an
effort to force the committee to dismiss the complaint against him.  He has always been about the money. 

Apparently USS_Republitarian in his fumbling of history does not understand the difference between Arab and Persian either.

This guy calls himself a historian? HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!

What planet do you live on? Newt will beat Obama. Of course a skid row drunk will be the phony in the oval office now. You know if you still think Obama is bright you probably should be reading and not posting. 

Obama can turn out the lights now. It does not matter who the candidate is. Any one can beat Obama. The people know him and do not like him. 

This will not be settled on this thread or at a peace table. This will be decided on the field of battle. Neither side will give in to the other so there is no hope for peace. I feel sorry for the children of both of these people. 

Take Newt’s comments and substitute the version for us white folks:

“we have an invented [Northern Irish] people, who are in fact [Caucasians], and were
historically part of the [Caucasian] community” [ed. note:  He still hasn't said anything yet.] and who have “sustained this
war against [Ireland.]”

It is apparent that Gingrich kneels before the kosher and the circumcised only.

I admit i was wrong. I confused it with Philistine (sp). They were an Arabic tribe at war with the Israelites for control of the land. They are the ancestors of the Palestinian people. Much how the Saxons, Goths, and the Anglos are the ancestors of Europeans.

who cares what Newt said, he is an egomaniac, only the brain death like Pablo

Thanks Farris

Well there is no Jewish state or nation.

A flotilla of 500 million Chinese
immigrants can turn the wilderness of Africa and the Middle-East into
productive regions. They will bring a 21st century culture into the
land of the nose bone and suicide bomb.

WAIT A GOSH DARN SECOND!!! SOUTH PARK WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG! OMG!!! 

I think its hilarious that my fellow Americans insist on getting into some sort of (dis)Honest debate about this.

Brass Tacks: WHO the hell are we to tell any nation/group of people, etc., what they can or can not call themselves? Its not like the people we are talking about walked into the area 60 years ago and claimed it was theirs with force. They’ve been their for a while and put in honest time. They can call themselves whatever they want. OR lets just stay true to our roots and call them “indians”.

There was this amazing little place called the Ottoman Empire. Do you know when that empire was created?

Actually, most of the Protestants in Northern Ireland were Scots transplanted there.

lolololol..thanks i needed the laugh….i guess u havent seen the current crop of GOP wannabees…..the GOP has real good crop of candidates …a pervert…”another” idiot gov from Texas….a former speaker who resigned in shame….2 former wannabe losers that have failed in thrie bid before…oh.. and a bimbo who can pray the gay out of you….Obama will win easily

The liberal oprressive democrats will FOREVER bash Gingrich because he blew them outta congress in 1994.
He shouldn’t be the Republican presidential candidate in 2012 but if he is, we’re saved.

…..but Obama goes both ways……(KnowhatImean?)

Funny how stuff like this pisses off the Demogressives..
Just wait until 2013 when Newt is President.
That’s when they will all have heart attacks…Praise the Lord!!

If Newt’s logic is right, we’re all “invented people” as none of the countries of today existed 1000, or even 500 years ago.  Such an historian!

Palestinians angry over Gingrich’s ‘invented’ people comment‏
JERUSALEM — Palestinian officials are reacting with dismay to Republican presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich’s statement that they are an “invented” people.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/10/palestinians-angry-over-gingrichs-invented-people-/

awwwwww….The poor, murderous savages are “dismayed”
They should get a dose of Obama as their leader if they want “dismayed”

The Jewish Talmud states that it was God himself who kicked the Jews out of Israel, and took the land from them to give to the Gentiles. It says they will not have any right to return to it until the Messiah comes, and they make him their King. Since they reject the idea that Moshiach has come, they have no valid religious claim to the land. And where your ancestors lived 2,000 years ago doesn’t give ANYONE any right to land ownership, and certainly no right to steal that land from anyone else.

The Jews should give the land back to its rightful owners, the Palestinians, and go back to where they came from: Poland and New York City.

Glad to see an attendee of Helen Thomas/Ahmadinijad school for the mentally deranged, thanks for visiting Mediate. :)

You don’t give a flying F what “the jewish talmud”. says, of that I am certain. There is some debate among religious jews whether they can have full sovereignty over a state before the messiah comes but contrary to your stupidity, the vast majority of Rabbi’s say yes they can (for a variety of reasons), As for your 2nd point, the people who lived 2000 years ago may not matter to you, but I presume the people (more than 6million) who live there today presumably do, and therefore you would agree that the great grand sons of palestinian who left Israel has no right to the land and to ethnically cleanse the current inhabitants to reclaim what they believe to be their grand parents & great grand parents land.

The Palestinians are not murdered (thoug they are killed) and they are not starving. What Newt said was impolite, in the sense that he told a historical FACT.Let me repeat he told an absolute stone cold 100% fact. While the name Palestine has existed for avery long time (many think deriving from the ancient Philistine people) the Palestinians as a separate nation 100% DID NOT.They considered themselves either Syrian or Egyptian or just plain Arab. Yasser Arafat, was in fact born in Egypt not anywhere on “historic Palestine” Sheik Husseini who collaborated with the Nazis to implement the “final solution” for the jews of then Palestine was born in Turkey. I rest my case.

The reason that is important is so that we can acknowledge that the Palestinians were created and sustained as a separate group for THE SOLE PURPOSE of creating another JEW FREE ARAB STATE. They do consider themselves a separate nation today (at least many do) and they should be treated like human beings(as soon as they start treating each other and their adversaries that way) but Newt was largely right.

Sorry Truth hurts

No they didn’t commit the Nazi genocide, but their leader Sheik Husseini flew to Germany to collaborate with Hitler on “finishing the Job”. Yes, every group that has been the victim of genocide should have their own home, to answer your rhetorical question. Especially if they have a more than 2 milleniums continious history of living there and were promised by the Turkish and then British occupying powers. I have no ill will towards thePalestinian Arabs, and wish them no harm but they have their own state when and only when there is a massive sea change in their anti-human murderous culture, and then we can deicde how much of historic Israe/lPalestine (including Jordan) they can have.

You are a massive bigot accusing all or most Jews of treachery. You are also (they often coincide) an idiot. White Power Melanie!! (sarcasm obviously)

John, this is an controversial subject but you are either LYING or IGNORANT.The Israelis HAVE  NOT forcibly moved anyone there, they have encouraged it, and been ok with it (and why not, much of the land is the heart of historical Israel and much of it did not have Arabs living on that specific parcel of land)however no one was forcibly moved there

C’mon now don’t call everything you disagree with racist thats poor form. The Palestinians or the Israelis should NOT HAVE TO MOVE ANYWHERE. Palestinians can continue to live where they live and should have autonomy there, frredom of religion, movement, expression and commerce. The problem is they want the opposite, and I can cite many links to prove it.Hamas(the most popular party) is honest that they want to expel ALL JEWS from the land,Fatah is not ast honest but continually say that the The 2 state solution is part of phased plan to eventually wipe out or vote out the jewish state out of existence. Hence their NATIONAL ASPIRATIONS LAY ELSEWHERE.

In other words stay in Ramallah, and Nablus and Bethlehem etc and if you want actual sovereignty as opposed to just freedom feel free to combine (without moving) with 60-80% of Jordan that is Palestinian (including the Queen of Jordan) and have a state. You will not have it by forcing Israelis to move (including the residents of the territories) or by moving in to what will be the final borders of Israel.

This is a hate post. It is also the post of a mentally weak person that is  delusional Obama is a joke. He is toast.

________________________________
From: Disqus
To: without_hate@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:36 AM
Subject: [mediaite] Re: Newt Gingrich: Palestinians Are An ‘Invented’ People

Disqus generic email template

dr2380 wrote, in response to without_hate:
lolololol..thanks i needed the laugh….i guess u havent seen the current crop of GOP wannabees…..the GOP has real good crop of candidates …a pervert…”another” idiot gov from Texas….a former speaker who resigned in shame….2 former wannabe losers that have failed in thrie bid before…oh.. and a bimbo who can pray the gay out of you….Obama will win easily Link to comment

The Mizrahi / Saphardic Jews certainly have a valid claim to live in the holy land – a sort of “right of return” from the “cleansing” by Titus. Israel needs to set it’s borders, and allow equal rights for the Palestinian people there and displaced by the Naqba.

The good Israelis need to take control of their country before the criminal element destroys it.

The Mizrahi / Saphardic Jews certainly have a valid claim to live in the holy land – a sort of “right of return” from the “cleansing” by Titus. Israel needs to set it’s borders, and allow equal rights for the Palestinian people there and displaced by the Naqba.

The good Israelis need to take control of their country before the criminal element destroys it.

I hope he wins the GOP race that should be enough alone for a 2nd term for the Dems!

There is no need to apologise. It did not hurt since I have heard
these typical lines of propaganda and falsification of the truth many times
before. But since you are willing to engage, let’s review your capitalised words
and information again:

First, the Palestinians who are murdered by the hands of Jewish
settlers and Israeli soldiers are murdered since we know who caused their
death, and since their death was not a result of any legal process or punishment
for crimes that they committed other than for being on their own land. The only
exception applies when there is armed conflict. Only then we can say killed. Yet,
the vast majority of murdered Palestinians are civilian kids and women. Also,
when a Jewish fanatic settler drives over kids in the street with his car over
and over, or when a Jewish terrorist shoot people while they farm their land to
scare them away in order for him to steal it by force, it is murder. Rejecting that
and using the term KILLED is an immoral way of trying to remove the
responsibility from the perpetrators.

Second, thousands of peace activists, European MPs and MEPs
as well as various UNERWA reports would agree that the Palestinians are
starving due to the Israeli siege and not because they are lazy. That is a FACT.
Rejecting that is also an immoral way of trying to remove the responsibility
from the perpetrators and avoiding the problem all together by denying that it
exists.

Third, the so called founding fathers of Israel were not
born there. That is because there was nothing called Israel to begin with and
second, because none of them had roots or family there to begin with. They all immigrated
into Palestine (then under British mandate and recognised by the League of
Nations as a country ready for statehood) and started participating in
terrorist groups to push the Palestinians out. 
David Ben-Gurion was born in Russia. His parents and grandparents were
born in Russia.

 Chaim Weizmann was
born in Belarus. His parents and grandparents were
born there

Yosef Sprinzak was born in Moscow, Russia.

Yitzhak Ben-Zvi  was born
in Russia

Theodor Herzl was born in Hungary

These are FACTS. Yasser Arafat’s father was born in Jerusalem,
Palestine and moved to Cairo with his family to manage a bank in Egypt. They did
not suspect that someone would go and steal their home and land otherwise, they
would have probably stayed.

Fourth, the Palestinians were not invented by anyone and
surely not as a response to the Jewish problem since they already existed
before the Zionists started migrating Jews from all over into Palestine.  The Palestinian National congress preceded the
Arab League in 1936. The Palestinian revolts against the British colonisation
in the 1920s and 1930 precede the creation of Israel and any Arab organised
institution. These are also FACTs that Newt did neglect for his own aims.

Fifth, Jewish population in Palestine was less than 2.5
Percent in 1911. This is a FACT. Palestinian Christians and Muslims were the
majority.

Sixth, how can the Palestinian be more civilised than by
taking their case and issue to the international court, international community
and UN. How civilized can someone be when his existence is being denied, his identity
is being delegitimised and the future of his kids is being destroyed? The Palestinians
are behaving in a much more human way than how they are being treated and this
is a FACT.

How would the Americas act if the immigrants from Mexico or
Cuba suddenly declare the south of the US an independent part of a lost homeland,
change the official language to Spanish, change the religion to catholic, start
taking away private property from anyone who is not from the same ethnic
background?

Palestinians have always been a nation regardless of what
AIPAC propaganda says

Ron Paul Campaign Debuts New Web Ad, ‘Selling Access’ This is where the Cain train rolls into Iowa to pick up Newt. No way he can rebound…….