Is Shuster considered a straight news person? If he is, I could go on for WEEKS with examples of his hatefulness directed at conservatives. If he’s not, he’s of course allowed his opinion, no matter how hateful he is.

Oh and as for his claim, he’s delusional!

David Shuster is as straight news as Bret Baier! If you cant see that Fox is pushing an agenda, you mam are the delusional one!

He’s got a point. Remember that time when Brit Hume said he had a tingle creeping up his leg after George Bush’s State of the Union speech . . . oh, wait, actually . . . never mind.

Chris Matthews doesn’t report news, AnonymusFinch, so he can have a thrill anytime he wants!

Really?

No, they are about even in their respective biases.

Yes, Chris Matthews does report news; he and Olbermann ANCHORED MSNBC’s return desk during every primary in 2008. You’ve never seen Glenn Beck do that on Fox.

Shuster is not impressive in any way. Not his intelligence, not his analysis, nothing. He screams at conservative guests. He got friggin banned from Twitter b/c he cannot control himself. He lacks judgment in every way so his opinion is utterly meaningless.

Just looking at MSNBC’s regular hosts: Ratigan, Shuster, Schultz, Matthews, + Olbermann, you have 5 screaming maniacs. Maddow is very Left but she is less obnoxious. The other daytime hosts lean left as well- Hall, Mitchell, Brewer etc. And fill-in host and often guest Lawrence O’Donnell is another screamer.

Fox is Conservative and MSNBC is Liberal but MSNBC hires far more loudmouths. And again, no one watches MSNBC so Fox News wins. The end.

Shuster says that like it’s a bad thing. What’s his point?

No, we saw Brit Hume, Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity ANCHORE Foxs coverage!

The main difference isn’t in their opinion people. In that regards we can consider them about even since Fox opinion is way to the right and MSNBC opinion is way to the left (this includes Shuster). It’s in the news. Fox news programs routinely push debunked talking points, use unfair slang instead of the actual names for things such as nuclear option instead of reconciliation or “Slaughter Rule” instead of “Deem and Pass” and many more. Even that wouldn’t be so bad if they’d take the time to point out the hypocrisy, instead they always side with the right and use the rights talking points in reporting the news. MSNBC certainly has a left aspect to its news but it’s nothing like with Fox News and anyone who can be objective knows it.

…and before you attack me I’m not saying MSNBC doesn’t have a left leaning spin, I’m just saying Fox News does it’s spin more. As for the “than MSNBC could ever be liberal” part of it, MSNBC could be just as liberal as Fox News is conservative if they really wanted to be. It wouldn’t take all that much effort.

This is so funny coming from such an Obama crack – diver like Schuster.

Hey Dave, when a FOX news anchor bows to a President, like Brian Williams did or says his job is to make sure the Obama presidency succeeds, like Matthews did or cries on air when the President is swore in,like Tom Brokow did, lets talk. Until then, shut your BHO brown nosing trap.

Weren’t Matthews and Olbermann so biased in their primary coverage that even MSNBC got someone else do it for a bit?

How can anyone seriously call MSNBC’s opinion hosts “screaming maniacs” and not apply that term to Fox News hosts? I’ve seen O’Reilly, Beck and Hannity (don’t catch the other shows except for rare clips) talk over people, talk down to people, yell at people and flat out ignore and belittle people. It’s not something that’s special to one station or the other, they both do it.

Look, let’s be honest. There is exactly one truly neutral new organization in America. It’s called CSPAN. I’ve been watching them for more than 20 years and to this day I have no idea where Brian Lamb stands politically.

As an attorney, I believe in the adversary system. I see nothing wrong with trying to find truth through a clash of competing viewpoints. But, to me, here’s difference. The most far right person on Fox is Glenn Beck. He eschews the label “journalist,” daily self-identifies as a conservative, and often describes himself as a “recovering alcoholic, self-educated, ex-D.J., rodeo clown.” You know what you’re getting. The most far-left person on MSNBC is Keith Olbermann, who claims to be the reincarnation of Edward R. Murrow (even stole his signature tag line) and periodically shows his audience his diploma from [the] Cornell [agricultural school] in order to establish his supposed Ivy league education.

If you can’t be truly objective like Brian Lamb, then tell me where you’re coming from, give me your argument, and let me judge for myself.

O’Reilly and Hannity have never ANCHORED the Fox coverage. They are always seprated out and identified as opinion people. Brit Hume is a newsperson and anchor at Fox–just like he was for a long time at ABC. There is a meaningful distinction.

My point precisely, Joshua!

How can anyone seriously call MSNBC’s opinion hosts “screaming maniacs” and not apply that term to Fox News hosts?”

LOL

Show me were FOX hosts scream into the camera when no one else is there like the MSNBC hosts do.

Tyler, how quickly you forget all the pandering and bowing down Fox News hosts did to Bush and company…and still do for Cheney, Republican Congressmembers and others like Palin. Pot, meet the kettle. Again, both sides do it so stop trying to pretend that your beloved station doesn’t. At least I’ve heard some complaints about Obama and Dems from MSNBC, you didn’t hear that too often from Fox News when it concerned Republicans much during the Bush years. Back then it was treasonous, now it’s ok for them to do.

Shoos is right. Lefty media & Fox are not mirrors.

It strikes me that Krak’s & Freddoso’s initial reactions agree with Shuster, who is dismissing any attempts to “quantify” bias, so I’m not sure I understand the WaEx blurb. Does it imply that Shuster WAS quantifying bias?

I suppose this post captures a moment when MSNBC admits to having a liberal bias. Sweet gotcha. But bias comparison would put most journalism to the left of FoxNews. They’re good old fashioned agit-prop, nothing new here.

I’m a Shuster fan. His breathless reporting on Scooter Libby will endear me to him forever. So … yeah, he’s pretty reflexive & intellectually honest as a reporter. So is Bret Baier. I have a feeling Obama might’ve been annoyed, but ultimately enjoyed the exchange. Bret knew he was badgering, and he admitted as much at the end of the interview.

MSNBC standing up for fairness and impartiality? You couldn’t make this stuff up!

We must have different ideas of what “screaming maniac” means. I really don’t remember seeing MSNBC hosts (don’t watch Shuster so no clue) yell at the camera for no apparent reason. Loud “lets see who can talk over whom” matches sure, not at the camera with no one there though. Beck routinely gets really loud during his diatribes and, since someone mentioned crying, lets not forget his water works which Fox News people have admitted he does during practice (ie scripted!).

MSNBC has never claimed to be fair or impartial. They don’t air lying commercials or use false slogans. Take their shows for what they are.

Has anyone ever seen a network run so many stories about a rival network? Yet this tells you everything you need to know about MSNBC. Fox is reporting on the news, while MSNBC merely wants to attack anyone who doesn’t support a far left agenda. One offers a message; the other shoots at messengers.

I see more diverse views in fifteen minutes of O’Reilly than in a year of Olbermann. Every night O’Reilly has on guests who disagree with him. Remind me of the last time Olbermann allowed that.

I’m waiting….

Lets get down to the nuts and bolts of things…if you watch and like MSNBC it’s probably because you agree, at least in part, with their more left leaning spin. If you watch and like Fox News it’s probably because you agree, at least in part, with their more right leaning spin. Either way, we’ll never convince the other side they’re wrong and we’re right, no matter what kinds of facts (video, print and sound clips) are provided. Agree to disagree?

Joshua Stears “I really don’t remember seeing MSNBC hosts (don’t watch Shuster so no clue) yell at the camera for no apparent reason. ”

LMAO!

KO screams at the camera every night. And FOX commentators complained abt Bush’s spending for years and abt his handling of Iraq.

Show me where FOX commentaors bowed to Bush on camera, said on live TV that their job was to make sure his presidency was a success.

Crickets, crickets, crickets.

What Shuster was talking about:

VIDEO: Bret Baier Interviewing Obama Vs. Bret Baier Interviewing Bush
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/18/baier-bush-obama/

Joshua says that MSNBC hosts aren’t screaming maniacs. But check out Dylan Ratigan, who in a few minutes tosses out vile insults, shouts down his guest, than cuts off his mike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eP6G410Z8Y

He should probably follow the Olbermann approach — namely toss out insults and then refuse to allow any response whatsoever.

O’Reilly doesn’t run stories about MSNBC, he just bashes them and ratings any chance he gets. Not really seeing a difference. At least when MSNBC is running stories they’re providing what they consider supporting evidence to debunk something that was on Fox News. That’s a whole lot different then flat out bashing and only bashing. Agreed on Olbermann though, he’s very left wing and he’s honest about it. O’Reilly might have on lefties but he talks over them and down to them and belittles them, so I’m not really sure how that’s any better. It’s not like anyone that’s an O’Reilly fan will ever take the side of an evil lefty so what’s the point of it all?

“MSNBC has never claimed to be fair or impartial. They don’t air lying commercials or use false slogans. ”

No, they just lie on air.

“O’Reilly doesn’t run stories about MSNBC, he just bashes them and ratings any chance he gets.”

MSNBC is so obsessed with Billo and FOX it’s laughable.

Again Tyler, we don’t agree on what screaming is. If Olbermann were screaming then at some point I’d have to turn down the TV when I watch his show late at night for fear of waking the wife (she’s a light sleeper and if he was screaming it would wake her). He gets passionate and often goes overboard but rarely would I ever classify it as even excessively loud let alone screaming.

Joshua, you apparently have no conception of why Fox outdraws MSNBC by a margin of five-to-one. The independents and moderates overwhelmingly prefer Fox precisely because it features open debate and discussion between people with different views. They avoid MSNBC because Olbermann, Maddow, etc. want to delegitimize and discredit opponents so that no debate is necessary. This is an absolutely fundamental difference between the two networks, and is the reason why one is growing its audience and the other is shrinking.

Fox is reporting on the news? You mean like that bullshit New England Journal Of Medicine study that Bill O and others on the network has been reporting on that wasn’t conducted by the New England Journal Of Medicine? Face it, with that “Conservative” clown Joe Scarborough on for 3 hours each day? That liberal network? Both Think Progress and Media Matters have clips of Baier’s interview with Bush and Obama. You should all take a look. Fox is so full of shit. They have nothing but hacks over there who spew right wing lies and talking points. All Presidents have attempted to run out the clock but, the lack of respect was most telling. Baier knew it which is why he apologized. But, as Cynthia Tucker pointed out today, that was not an interview. Unlike any of the tools on fox, Tucker is also a Pulitzer Prize Winner! By the way, why do you supposed Bush never had to guts to visit MSNBC? Because he dosn’t have the balls that this President has. All that tough talking from Bush was just that. Yes, it’s bigger than yours!

“O’Reilly might have on lefties but he talks over them and down to them and belittles them,”

MSNBC’s idea of a debate is between Antony Weiner of NY and Michael Moore.

Billo and FOX have had on Jesse Jackson, Rev. Wright, the Nation of Islam, Rosie O’Donnell, Tom Hanks, etc.

And MSNBC????

While I dislike most of what I see on Fox News, I can at least admit that there have been random times where Bill or someone else (not Beck or Hannity though) say something that I can at least understand and even once in a while agree with. Your total hatred for all that is MSNBC is just sickening. They’ve got plenty of fair stories that, even if you don’t agree with their end result, you could at least agree they gave it a fair spin. You remind me of a friend of mine that told me once that my facts were liberal facts and if she wanted to she could give me conservative facts. Facts don’t have a bias so stop pretending everything on MSNBC is unfair and overboard and bad and all on Fox News is good. Both can have good and bad, refusal to see that is just closed minded and pathetic.

Olbermman is NOT honest about his left leanings. He claims to be the new Edward R. Murrow, harkening back to age when we did have a fairly objective media. When has Olbermann ever described himself a liberal or progressive or whatever he is? In his Manichean world, there are only “normal” people like him and evil people like Bush/Fox. When has he ever said, “I’m a liberal; therefore, my take is . . .”

“If Olbermann were screaming then at some point ….”

LMFAO!

You are priceless and benighted.

“Your total hatred for all that is MSNBC is just sickening”

Total projection on your part. You watch too much MSNBC- your lib hatred is showinh. Again.

MSNBC, just on Maddow I’ve seen numerous starting with 2 days ago J.D. Hayworth (whom flat out lied but you probably don’t agree). She’s also had on other repub politicians, people that represent some extreme and not so extreme religious groups and more. Not to mention she went to CPAC and with one exception everyone seemed to think she was nice and were surprised by the fact they liked her. Olbermann is a different story, kind of like Beck so lets ignore them. Shuster has had on people from the right that I’ve seen clips of and while you might not like how the conversations went, I don’t like how they go on O’Reilly…but they were there. Selective memory really doesn’t work.

Lib hatred? Riiiight. Most of my family are republicans and we have good discussions all the time. To be honest, hatred takes too much effort and energy for me. I’d rather ignore then hate…unless I’m in an argumentative mood.

The lefties here (like Shuster) are angry at the very existence of Fox, because it allows frank and open debate between a wide range of views. And the Left doesn’t want to debate the Right. The Left wants to silence the Right. And increasingly even moderates, like Stupak, Lieberman, etc. That’s the role of MSNBC — it’s the “network that wants to silence opposition.” Just look at the hosts, who try everything (rants, ridicule, insults, diatribe, etc.) to avoid any real debate on real issues. And this is why the ratings are tanking.

Oh, and that wasn’t projected. You haven’t said one single nice thing about anyone on MSNBC, I made a logical assumption.

To all the libs on this thread,

I could go on for WEEKS with examples of his hatefulness directed at conservatives.

I could go on for WEEKS with examples of Michelle’s hatefulness directed at liberals.

Just looking at MSNBC’s regular hosts: Ratigan, Shuster, Schultz, Matthews, + Olbermann

Please don’t forget the 3 hours in the morning on MSNBC hosted by conservative republican Joe Scarborough.

I really don’t remember seeing MSNBC hosts (don’t watch Shuster so no clue) yell at the camera for no apparent reason.

You must have never seen one of Olbermann’s Special Comments.

Weren’t Matthews and Olbermann so biased in their primary coverage that even MSNBC got someone else do it for a bit?

Yes they were replaced by David Gregory.

There is exactly one truly neutral new organization in America. It’s called CSPAN.

Exactly right.

Holy crap, “frank and open debate”? Not really.

To all the libs on this thread,
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SAYS THAT FOX NEWS IS THE MOST TRUSTED NAME IN NEWS. You can deny that til the cows come home, but it doesn’t change the facts. Carry on with your delusion!

“Selective memory really doesn’t work.”

Well you ceratinly proves it works for you.

I could go on for WEEKS with examples of Michelle’s hatefulness directed at liberals.

James, don’t confuse Disgust with Hatred. I get along fine with some libs on this site just fine.

“You haven’t said one single nice thing about anyone on MSNBC, I made a logical assumption”

You are a typical lib- if you disagree with someone, it’s hate- or since BHO is in office, it’s racism.

You guys have already played out your cards.

Try something new.

Well said, Felix.

I have seen his special comments, doesn’t mean he’s routinely yelling or getting overly loud. It happens on either side but to say that one or the other does it constantly is nothing more then a gross over generalization.

“I have seen his special comments, doesn’t mean he’s routinely yelling or getting overly loud”

He screams every night during every special comment.

KO is so full of hate that even Jon Stewart called him on it.

Where did I say anything about racism? I don’t recall playing that card at all. When all someone does is bash and demean something I generally consider that hatred towards the target. You can’t truly hate something if you can find good in it somewhere. Find something good about MSNBC and I’ll gladly retract my statement. Seeing as I’ve admitted to liking some things that have come from fox, not sure where my selective memory is. All I’m doing is pointing out the same B.S. happens on both channels.

The biggest partisan jerk after Keith Olbermann says that MSNBC could never be as liberal as FNC is conservative. Oh, well, that’s such a meaningful observation…

One thing is for sure, male staffers at ANY cable news outlet could never get as screechy girl-man as David Shuster.

Every night? Really? Every single night he’s done a special comment? That’s like saying every night O’Reilly bashes MSNBC for it’s ratings, he does it often but not every night. And again, we differ on what yelling is (my wife and I have the same disagreement though so who knows, maybe in this case it is me and I am wrong).

Make than ‘girly-man’ or ‘girly-mon’.

Hey, Josh, try this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLPqAZnhsw&feature=related

The first Rep elected in MASS. since the ’70s and what does KO say abt him?

“One thing is for sure, male staffers at ANY cable news outlet could never get as screechy girl-man as David Shuster.”

..have you ever heard the clip of Beck yelling at a person to get off his phone? Yes I realize that was on his radio station but still, it was Beck and he got really screechy girl-man voiced.

“Every single night he’s done a special comment?”

His special comments are so frequent they are no longer special, as if they ever were.

James,
If you truly want to talk about hatred, here you go:

Lib Talker, Mike Maloy:

“The Republican Party needs to be executed as quickly as possible.”

Malloy called Justice Thomas a “Nazi” and a “house negro” who slavishly imitates Antonin Scalia and his wife was “an ignorant son of a bitch.”

“I have a good news to report. Glenn Beck appears closer to suicide — I’m hoping that he does it on camera.”

“I have a good news to report. Glenn Beck appears closer to suicide — I’m hoping that he does it on camera.”

“Rush Limbaugh is a bigger threat to this country than Osama bin Laden….Why isn’t he arrested and sentenced for treason?”

I used to have violence fantasies about Scott McClellan…All those feelings are being shifted now to Dana Perino, violence fantasies.”

Enjoy these for now, I’ll be back with more!

I am not defending Olbermann, I’ve already stated that I think he goes to far (here and in threads about him in the past). I’m not a big fan of his, I’ll watch stuff but I tend to do so on my computer so I can skip past crap when he goes too far. He went too far with Brown and has done so with others.

” it was Beck and he got really screechy girl-man voiced.”

Now you are lying= lib last stand.

Lets not get into the hate talker crap because it’s on both sides. It doesn’t prove anything other then people go too far on both sides.

It’s been nice, Josh.

But I must leave.

Guess whose on soon?

Holy crap I agree with Tyler lol. His twice nightly special comments is too much. Does loose some of the effect, assuming they had any on the person watching in the past.

I don’t think Joshua is lying about the Glenn Beck thing per se, but I think he’s mistaken. There was one day when he yelled at a caller and his voice cracked somewhat. Stu and Pat made fun of him for it, and for the rest of the day he went around yelling “getting off my phone” and other stuff and making his voice crack and go hi-pitched, etc. That probably got replayed by Media Matters without explaining the joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-KGukuety0&feature=related

The yelling starts at 3:18, the screech is 3:30. Proof’s a hard mistress lol. Not saying he’s always screechy, just that he can be.

He was genuinely pissed because the caller said “you people” don’t care about the bailout and even I know Beck has continuously railed against it and it’s cost.

The joke one was a male caller (that vid came up first in my search) and his voice never got screechy in that yelling. Ok, done posting for now.

One more thing, Tyler, it should be “who’s” (as in who is) and not whose…sorry, couldn’t resist…I wonder how long it takes for someone to find one of my mistakes lol.

Next up…………….Ed “I’m just trying to be relevant”Schultz:

“The Republicans lie! They want to see you dead! They’d rather make money off your dead corpse!

“Sometimes I think they want Obama to get shot. I do. I really think that there are conservative broadcasters in this country who would love to see Obama taken out.”

Dick Cheney’s heart’s a political football. We ought to rip it out and kick it around and stuff it back in him.

More to come!

Oh, great. Now a debate over whether MSNBC could ever be as screechy as Fox News…

All those can be matched by the vileness that Rush spews alone. Doesn’t make either side right. Or shall we talk about the tea partiers that bashed and degraded a guy with Parkinsons a day or two ago? The extreme comments on either side are wrong.

Shuster is just mad because his boy Obama finally got asked some tough questions (that he didn’t answer). Bret Baier did his job. He’s supposed to press him, and when he fillibusters and doesn’t answer the questions he’s asked, he should be interrupted. It is funny to hear Shuster, a guy who gets his news from Media Matters, talk about being a partisan.

“Never send a boy to do a man’s job.” ~O’Reilly on Adolf Hitler

“Only dunes and coons come from Iraq, and you sure as shit don’t look like a dune – so that narrows it down a little.” ~ Bill O’Reilly to the Iraqi Ambassador.

“Go do the helicopter, you trainhomo!” ~Bill O’Reilly in an unique exchange with Keith Olbermann

“Do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the Far Left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure which you are a part of, and so am I, and bring in MILLIONS of Wetbacks!” ~Bill O’ Reilly to John McCain.

“Every night I get down on my knees and pray that Dennis Kucinich will burst into flames.” – Glenn Beck

“I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it.” – Glenn Beck

It’s this attitude of appeasement and capitulation which enabled North Vietnam to conquer California! – Hannity

See, it works on both sides. Why not tell all of them that these kinds of comments are inappropriate? Thats why I generally listen to people like Thom Hartman or Bill Press. They’re opinionated sure but they don’t really get mean and rude like that and I know there are those on the right that are the same way, I just don’t listen to them.

Here’s everything you need to know about David Shuster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFuryFymU8

I’m calling foul. No way did O’Reilly ever say that to the Iraqi Ambassador. You’ve got to cite a credible source for that.

Give it up clowns.

You all know damned well Foochs is nothing but pure gNOpig Propaganda.

You consider being a “conservative” and calling Foochs what they are to be an insult? Well, that is what Foochs and the gNOpig has become.

Even Billdo and the s*** flinging Baboon NOW are questioning the intelligence of Moose Boogers, as Roger put it, even from “inside the Family”

I’m thinking I agree AnonFinch, I saw it on a couple site but I can’t find it on any others. I jumped the shark on that one a bit. The others I have verified on numerous sites though.

Let’s be clear: a liberal “pundit” on MSNBC, who used to work on Fox for a number of years…is claiming that Fox isn’t tolerant of liberals? They were tolerant enough of this idiot to pay him for some number of years.

But with the Beck quote about wanting to kill Michael Moore, there was a backstory to that. I forget what it was exactly, but there’s more to that story.

Damnit, that quote was UNcyclopedia, I misread it. Very much my bad on that one.

Back story doesn’t make it better, it’s still an inappropriate thing to say, especially considering the spin people will put on anything. I mean really, people complain about Michelle Obama wearing sleeveless dresses. It’s gotten ridiculous. I’m not innocent in that regard, I just proved that unfortunately by jumping on a quote I should have realized was false.

Here’s Beck talking about political violence. He gives a speech like this 2 or 3 times per week, yet for some strange reason clips like this never get played by MSNBC:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/03/glenn-beck-begs-his-audience-not-to-kill-anyone-commit-terrorism/

Joshua, I don’t want to swear to it because I don’t remember it exactly, but I think Beck may have been literally tweaking Media Matters and the like. He often says completely outrageous things, prefacing it with “Let’s see how Media Matters quotes this out of context” just to tweak them. And they usually do. I can’t swear that’s what happened with the Michael Moore quote, but I’d make a gentlemen’s beck that it was a situation like that.

Hey David, MSNBC was beaten by the CARTOON NETWORK in ratings, so maybe you should focus on making MSNBC better and less obsessing over Fox’s domination of you.

Haven’t seen anybody mention or link to this yet, but there was a study done in 2004 that sought to measure bias in the media using objective measures. I don’t recall MSNBC being in the mix, but Fox News was shown to be less biased than any other major media outlet, IIRC.

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm

James, don’t confuse Disgust with Hatred.

So maybe you’re confusing Shuster’s disgust with hatred.

James,
If you truly want to talk about hatred, here you go:

And I’m sure a simple websearch would come up with equally hateful remarks by conservatives. The problem is both sides engage in this destructive kind of vitriol. So as the saying goes, those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SAYS THAT FOX NEWS IS THE MOST TRUSTED NAME IN NEWS. You can deny that til the cows come home, but it doesn’t change the facts. Carry on with your delusion!

And the facts show that FOX News viewers are the least knowledgable:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/16/daily-show-fox-knowledge/

As well as the most misinformed:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/19/fox-news-viewers-misinformed/

Conservative shows on Fox News:
Fox and Friends
Cavuto
Glenn Beck
Hannity
O’Reilly Factor

Liberal shows on MSNBC:
Morning Joe
Dylan Ratigan Show
Chris Matthews
Ed Schulz
Keith Olbermann
Rachel Maddow

So yes, they are “five points to the right” and “five points to the left.”

Sorry, James, your far left ThinkProgress is no more reliable than MSNBC.

BTW, the subject is whether MSNBC is more liberal than FOX is conservative.

I repeat: when a FOX news anchor bows to a President, like Brian Williams did or says his job is to make sure the Obama presidency succeeds, like Matthews did or cries on air when the President is swore in, like Tom Brokaw did, let’s talk.

James, are you seriously asking me to take a poll from Think Progress seriously?

JamesA:

Those ThinkProgress “surveys” are complete and total B.S. They take highly debatable issues and score you as “misinformed” if you don’t agree with the liberal line.

For example, they fault 69% of Fox viewers for being “misinformed” because they believe that Obamacare will provide federal funding for abortions. That’s not fair. We can have a debate over the Stupak amendment language and the Senate language. Reasonable minds can disagree. When it was last put to a vote in the House, all of the Republicans and more than 40 Democrats agreed that you need the Stupak language to preserve the federal ban on abortion funding. ThinkProgress, however, deems that CLEAR MAJORITY of House members to be “misinformed.” Is Congressman Stupak, who is a Democrat who is going to vote against Obamacare because he believes the Senate language allows for federal funding, “misinformed”? No, it’s a good faith disagreement on a complex issue. To claim that it is black and white and one side is misinformed is bad faith.

Same thing on funding for illegal immigrants. Luis Guiterrez of Illinois openly believes in funding healthcare for illegals. He voted for the House bill. Then, in December the Senate significantly changed that language to prohibit illegals. Guiterrez objected to the new language, and until yesterday was going to vote against the bill on that basis. So were Fox viewers “misinformed” last August (before the new Senate language) if they believed it would fund illegals? Clearly not. Its a legitimate debatable issue.

ThinkProgress thinks you are “misinformed” if you think Obamacare “will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing health care to the elderly”? Well, I personally recall Obama’s healthcare “townhall” in the White House with Charlie Gibson. A women in the audience told the story about her 96 year-old mother who needed a pacemaker. Most doctors didn’t want to do the operation because of her age, but she finally found one who would do it because of her mother’s “spirit” and “zest for life”? The women asked the President whether his plan would allow doctors to take such factors into consideration. The President, whi was quite honest n his answer, said no, that’s too intangible and not backed by science. “SOmetimes,” he added, “it’s just better to skip the operation and take a pain pill.” Am I “misinformed” because I remember that exchange and construe it to mean that the government will be making decisions about not providing care to the elderly?

I do could go and on. Suffice it to say that I could make a solid argument THEY are wrong about ever issue they “tested” on. Does that make me uninformed? I don’t think so. I’d put my education and legal credentials (including years as a staffer on Capitol Hill) up against ANY employee of “ThinkProgress”–and believe me, I would win.

That’s not a scientific survey. It’s agenda-driven propaganda.

That ThinkProgess survey, and JamesA’s citation to it, really hacks me off. That’s everything that’s wrong with political debate in this country today: Don’t take your opponents seriously. Don’t respond to their arguments. Just label them “misinformed” and don’t engage in any really debate. That’s truly shameful.

Those of you who say that abortions won’t be federally funded under BOC, I have a question for you, if that were true, don’t you think PP, NOW and others would be up in arms? Their silence speaks volumes.

MooseOfReason, You need to compare straight news shows and not opinion.

I simply wanted to be number 100 person to comment. Actually, I am not sure why I read all the CRAP on here between all oif you. Hmmmmm I need my head examined!!!!

Is that loon really using thinkprogress as a source? It’s a source, all right…….

How the hell is “Morning Joe”, hosted by the Joe Scarborough, former REPUBLICAN Conservative Congressman from Florida, a “liberal show?”

–Cobra

The objectivity of MSNBC’s David Shuster.
***
David Shuster’s Online Reading List a Who’s-Who of Far-Left Opinion
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan-markay/2010/01/31/shusters-online-reading-list-whos-who-far-left-opinion

MSNBC’s David Shuster: GOP ‘All White Males With Short Hair Cuts’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/09/10/msnbc-s-david-shuster-gop-all-white-males-short-hair-cuts

Shuster Defends Attack on GOP for Using Phrase ‘Harlem Democrat,’ Silent on Luke Russert Doing Same Thing
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2010/03/09/david-shuster-defends-attack-gop-using-phrase-harlem-democrat-silent

David Shuster ‘Giddy’ to Cover James O’Keefe Arrest
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan-markay/2010/01/27/david-shuster-giddy-cover-james-okeefe-arrest

MichelleF says:
March 18, 2010 at 9:43 pm
James, are you seriously asking me to take a poll from Think Progress seriously?
——————————————-

This coming from someone that links to Rush Limbaugh as a credible source.

I”m gonna play devils advocate here and say that maybe off camera Foxnews is more conservative than MSNBC
is liberal… off camera. However when broadcasting or on camera. MSnbc is far more liberal overall than Foxnews is conservative.

Sorry, James, your far left ThinkProgress is no more reliable than MSNBC.

Is that loon really using thinkprogress as a source?

Except that neither survey was done by Think Progress. They were just reporting on surveys and studies done by the Pew Research Center and the Wall Street Journal, yes the conservative Wall Street Journal. If any of you had bothered to click on the links, you would have known that. Instead you choose to go with a knee-jerk reaction to what you thought was a liberal source.

BTW Those weren’t the only surveys which showed that FOX viewers were the most misinformed:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/102.php

Those of you who say that abortions won’t be federally funded under BOC, I have a question for you, if that were true, don’t you think PP, NOW and others would be up in arms?

Why would they be up in arms for accepting the status quo on federal funding that has been in place for years? Why would Catholic Nuns and the Catholic Health Association endose the bill? They are no pro-abortion groups.

I still cant beleive you morons are still touting this bull shit ratings list. The only and I mean only reason fox news has more viewers is because all of the repubs watch ONE Station. Fox. Liberals and normal people watch MSNBC, CNN, ABC CBS NBC. We have lives to live and are not glued to one station. So use your brains. One station for rethugs, and a shitload for normal people. .

One more thing. Brett Baer or any one from fox has never ever treated Bush like they treat Obama. Britt Hume is still wiping the cum off his mouth for the past 8 years Bush was in office. Also it was VERY HISTORIC for OUR COUNTRY that we Elected with a true Majority an African American to the presidency. It was very heart warming to see history for those of us who grew up in a time when African Anericans were treated worse then stray dogs. For African Americans to actually see a black president get elected into office was very emotional, reporter or not. (since some of you are bitching about reporters being emotional when Obama was elected). It truly was an emotional time for millions of people. It should have made all of you feel proud. But I guess you just can’t stop thinking of your selves long enough to see such a historic event.

>Britt Hume is still wiping the cum off his mouth for the past 8 years Bush was in office.

The whole Fox News network is.

Is shuster delusional?? I mean he is a nutcase anybody who listens to wha he says can sure see it, does anyone remember when he worked for FOX before they got rid of him, he was worse then anyone he thinks is sees on FOX, he went after President Clinton like a veagence, he could never turn down a camera, and just as rude as ever, so david watch what you say about FOX NEWS who would not even let you in the door for an interview, more conservative then msnbc is liberal, that is such a joke, msnbc starts early in the morning till the last show, its all a love fest of obama and attack any republican that comes on, and the gall of people over at all the msm especially msnbc , cnn to say that Bret Baeir was interrupting obama , please, he just did not let obama get away with his usual conning the press and media as he does the msm, Bret Baier was the best interview I have ever seen on this con artist, no wonder FOX NEWS beats the hell out of cnn and msnbc!!! get over it you libs

I love your arguments finch. They are almost reasonable. It takes an excellent mind, and apparently a good legal education, to render argument after argument about health care and not mention one time the 45-50 thousand people that die in this country every year for lack of health care.

valkyrie101 says:
March 19, 2010 at 6:58 am

they don’t die because if lack of healthcare. They die because they are sick and refuse treatment
on account of cost. They make a consious call to ignore the signs and not seek help.

fido,
That reminds me of Marie’s Antoinette’s “let them eat cake” comment. You may not be aware of this, but hospitals routinely deny treatment to those who show up in emergency rooms without a true emergency. So, essentially, your argument is: “those who do not have insurance and can not afford to pay for care are making a conscious decision to refuse treatment.”

Fidoohki writes:

“they don’t die because if lack of healthcare. They die because they are sick and refuse treatment
on account of cost. ”

Ummm….hello..healthcare is EXPENSIVE, dude.

The number one cause of bankruptcy in America are medical bills.
http://www.baltimoreathome.com/detail.aspx?dct=54&id=8675&mid=1496&loc=rss

Valkyrie101,

That’s what these right wingers are really all about. They’re revealing themselves. That’s why I absolutely embarrass any of these “pro-life”, “get the terrorists” types who are against health care reform.

–Cobra

Yea, imagine how outraged they would be if every year a city of 45K people or so was blown up by terrorists. They would be demanding our government run military take immediate action to protect us. But with the slow death of the poor uninsured, its like, hey, go pound sand, the government has no business helping people.

Once again Schuster proves that without Fox, there would be no MSNBC, just you continuous Lock Up series running all day long.

One thing I do know and that is unlike Fox News, MSNBC was never created to be an ideological based news organization. They realized that based on Fox New’s example, that straight news alone doesn’t sell. And when it comes to hiring hosts and giving them their own shows, MSNBC has been much more open to giving shows to people on both ends of the political spectrum (i.e. Alan Keyes). And Fox New’s chickensh*t practice of hiring Democratic strategists for face time on camera has not and never will amount to more than window dressing.

I agree with you same2u. Mike and Joe, for example, are not liberals. I think the greater shift to progressive commentators on MSNBC is in direct response to FOX doing that towards the right.

James I’m going to find the clip of someone talking to Obama voters. Their TOTAL lack of knowledge was as frightening as it was hilarious. I’ll be back with that!

Since you love polls:

New poll: McCain voters and FOX viewers MOST INFORMED!!

http://www.withbias.net/2008/12/new-poll-mccain-voters-and-fox-news.html

Will someone call 911 and inform them that there are left wingers out there who are being held captive. Guns are being held to their heads and they’re being forced to watch Fox News.

the 45-50 thousand people that die in this country every year for lack of health care.
——

Of which how many are illegal?

I’m not sure olby, probably some. For the purpose of argument, let’s say 10% are illegal aliens. Of course, you do not die imediately when you do not have access to medical care. That can take several years. So that means maybe a million uninsured people of modest means are slowly dying right now. No other civilized country in the world has that situation. Not one. That is why, even though America has the best health care in the world, our health care system is not even ranked in the top ten.

How many people that HAVE insurance die every year? Something to ponder.

James I’m going to find the clip of someone talking to Obama voters. Their TOTAL lack of knowledge was as frightening as it was hilarious. I’ll be back with that!

And you post a poll by John Ziegler, a conservative ideologue with no credibility whatsoever. I’ll stick with the studies done by Pew and WSJ.

Cobra, Scarborough is outweighed by the other hosts. But even if you don’t include that in the list, it’s five liberal shows to Fox News’ five conservative.

However, I didn’t include Shuster, because I couldn’t find a thorough listing of MSNBC’s lineup. He fills in for Olbermann and Matthews, and I’ve seen several interviews he has conducted. I wouldn’t call him objective.

How about this Poll, as of today, BO’s approval is 46% approve and 48% disapprove (the same as Bush’s when he left office). That’s a Gallup Poll, hardly a right wing pollster.

Same2u,

Ed Schultz would be hard pressed to give more specious analysis than you’ve offered up here.

MSNBC has attempted to market conservative host, not out of a sense of diversity, but in a headlong effort to find anything that might pull them out of a ratings pit.

In Keith Olbermann they had the most success and the network has gone headlong to uncloseted leftiness since Olbermann has made them competitive with a diminishing CNN.

valkyrie101 says:
March 19, 2010 at 8:19 am

In my state they can because there are free clinics here.

Ever been to a free clinic? I have more than once. You are given a number
and sent into a waiting room with 60+ people waiting to be seen by a
doctor/ nurse practitioner. You’ll be seen, garunteed, even if it takes 6-8 hours. And when you
do, all the doctor can tell you is’ I”m not sure but you’ll have to pay for the tests to
find out.’ It is a very humiliating expirience.

This bill will not change that until 4 years from now and there is zero garuntee that it will even then.
we can do better.

Thanks for making my case, fido. Our efforts to help the impoverished uninsured have been woefully inadequate. The states, or private relief organizations, are not equiped to do the job.

How about this Poll, as of today, BO’s approval is 46% approve and 48% disapprove (the same as Bush’s when he left office). That’s a Gallup Poll, hardly a right wing pollster.

Total non-sequitar. But since you brought it up, today’s in even at 47% approve and disapprove.

And it’s not the same as Bush’s when he left office. That was about 30% approve and over 60% disapprove: http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

MSNBC has attempted to market conservative host, not out of a sense of diversity, but in a headlong effort to find anything that might pull them out of a ratings pit.

In Keith Olbermann they had the most success and the network has gone headlong to uncloseted leftiness since Olbermann has made them competitive with a diminishing CNN.

You are exactly right. It’s all about ratings and both cater to certain sections of the public to garner those ratings. If Rupert Murdoch thought he could get bigger ratings by going left, FOX News would become the liberal network and vica versa for MSNBC.

James.
I think you are right about Murdoch. When the Fox Network got started his two prime shows, the ones that put Fox on the map, were Married With Children and the Simpsons, which were routinely condemned by the family values crowd. The big moment for Fox that announced their arrival as a legitimate network was when the Simpsons began to beat the Cosby show in the ratings war. Then later, seemingly as a shot across the bow of the family values crowd, they brought out The Family Guy. :-)

Fox News found a niche on the right. Very smart programming on Rupert’s part. I am glad that Fox News went that way because it is totally true that the TV media was leaning mostly left. That was not good balance. Fox News filled a void. I don’t agree with Fox News’ politics, but I appreciate that those on the right have a voice.

valkyrie101 says:
March 19, 2010 at 6:11 pm

and the federal goverment is? If you beleive that you are delusional!

James A1102,

Actually, I’ve heard that Murdoch has done that in Europe to an extent.

What I find significant about this subject is that MSNBC could not have gone to the right and have maintained any credibility with media watchdogs critics ala Howard Kurtz and company.

No conservative host could enjoy the sheer joy that Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann (originally) brought out in the media. The glowing puff pieces were endless. They were and are the great liberal media hope that leftism could be marketable via television.

Alan Keyes could never enjoy the blessing of the media elite, whether that show had been wildly sucessful or not. Rosie O’Donnell and her truther views were treated more tolerantly by the MSM.

By going right, MSNBC would have LOST credibility in a way that they’re going left will never cost them.

Fido,
I am sorry that your view of the Federal government is so cynical.

MSNBC fired Phil Donahue, an unquestionable liberal the moment the Iraq War was really kicking in. They not only hired Alan Keyes, but Michael Savage for Pete’s sake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS0DgCUc9po
Yeah, THAT Michael Savage.

Let’s not forget the partner CNBC and their Dennis Miller Show. Now Dennis Miller is O’Reilly’s comic relief, but let’s end this myth that FOX NEWS would EVER give a solo show to anybody CLOSE to as extreme as Keyes or Savage from the left. They’ve yet to even have a liberal host a solo show, and don’t give me Geraldo or Greta.

–Cobra

@Cobra, why not give you Geraldo and Greta? They are, after all, liberals. Bothe even voted for Obama.

By going right, MSNBC would have LOST credibility in a way that they’re going left will never cost them.

I don’t know if it is a credibility issue or more of a ratings issue. FOX had already cornered the market on conservative viewers so MSNBC had to go left to attract a different audience.

Dave Richards;

Yeah…OK.

“• John Coale: Coale, a well-known Washington lawyer and the husband of Fox News Channel’s Greta Van Susteren, drew national media attention when he endorsed Sen. John McCain’s presidential bid in protest of the way in which Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who he backed in the primary, was treated. Coale, in an interview with the Fix, described himself simply as a “friend” of the Alaska governor but acknowledged that he suggested she start a leadership PAC and helped her navigate through some of the questions surrounding her family that lingered after the campaign. Others familiar with Palin’s political team insist that Coale has far more power than he is letting on — essentially helping to run Sarah PAC. Coale demurred on that front, noting only that he talks to Palin regularly and that she is a “fascinating person” who is “definitely not what the right thinks or the left thinks.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/18/john-coale-greta-van-sust_n_176611.html

It got so bad there were rumors of Van Susstren having an affair with Todd Palin.
http://abstractionreaction.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/todd-palins-rumoured-affair-with-fox-news-anchor/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu9aTV5j9MM

How many Palin interviews have you seen on Greta? How many uninterrupted segments lent to Rush Limbaugh?
Greta’s a “liberal”, why? Because she doesn’t bark GOP talking points as loud as Hannity does? And after being a valet for the Palins, you expect us to believe she voted for Obama, a man she can’t find a positive word for? Maybe on Hot Air or Redstate you’ll get some “Amen”s on that. You ain’t getting them from me.

With the exception of being strident on immigration issues, exactly how is Geraldo a “liberal” on his Fox News program?

–Cobra

Cobra, what have you argued that has contradicted Valkryie or me?

We were both saying something a bit further and more subtle than your response indicates.