Kevin O’Leary Battles MSNBC Anchor Over Trump Tariffs: ‘Let’s Squeeze and Squeeze and Squeeze Them!’

MSNBC’s José Díaz-Balart and Shark Tank’s Kevin O’Leary clashed on Thursday as the latter dismissed concerns about “volatility” in the market from President Donald Trump’s tariffs.

O’Leary joined Díaz-Balart on Thursday following Trump’s announcement the prior day that he was pausing most tariff increases he’d imposed on countries just days before. He also announced he was raising tariffs against China to over 100%. China has also put in place retaliatory tariffs against the United States.

O’Leary laid into China, accusing the country’s communist government of stealing IP and not having any system in place for “recourse” for American companies. O’Leary previously argued China deserves a 400% tariff, and he couldn’t care less if Trump raised the tariff by 25% every single day.

“They steal, they don’t play by the rules, and I’ve had enough,” O’Leary said. “And so I would like this thing worked out. I don’t care if Trump ratchets it up 25% a day.”

“Wait, wait, wait, Kevin, what do you mean you don’t care about volatility if volatility has a direct impact on us as consumers?” Díaz-Balart asked.

O’Leary argued short term pain is worth solving the “long-term” problem of China, while Díaz-Balart argued that tariffs would not equate to a regime change, which he said is what would be needed to solve O’Leary’s problems with the country.

“That’s the nature of the regime. What you’re calling for is a regime change in China?” Díaz-Balart asked.

O’Leary argued no regime change is needed and it’s America’s time to “squeeze” China into “compliance” with the rules other countries follow.

“We can talk about everything else, but Kevin, it’s a reality. The Cultural Revolution in China killed millions of people so that people would remember that they had to remain silent. What you’re saying is, I’ve had enough with China,” Díaz-Balart said.

Check out the exchange below:

JOSE DIAZ-BALART: Wait, wait, wait, Kevin, what do you mean you don’t care about volatility if volatility has a direct impact on us as consumers?

KEVIN O’LEARY: Because we have to fix this problem once and for all. It’s killing us. It’s killing small business in America. It’s killing large businesses. All the IP these guys steal. You go back and look at all of their technological advancements, and this is my personal estimation, you’re going to find source code from American companies back four decades ago. These guys don’t play by the rules and administration after administration, whether it be European or American, have not dealt with this. It’s enough. We’ve got to solve this problem. Now if we have to squeeze Chinese heads to the wall, as I said yesterday when I was testifying, so be it. I’m willing to live with the volatility to get the long situation settled. I want Kevin in China. I want to open up those markets.

DIAZ-BALART: If what you’re saying is carried out to its ultimate solution, you’re talking about the fact that China, the regime, has a system in place that is able to manipulate the world, its currency, and everything else because of its totalitarian nature. Now we can talk about what happened in ’48. We can talk about what happened with Taiwan. We can talk about everything else, but Kevin, it’s a reality. The cultural revolution in China killed millions of people so that people would remember that they had to remain silent. What you’re saying is, I’ve had enough with China.

O’LEARY: You’re telling me this is okay? You’re happy with this? You’re good with it?

DIAZ-BALART: No, no, no, no. On the contrary. But what I’m asking you is what is the solution to dealing with China? A system that systematically violates human rights and is able to use —

O’LEARY: Here’s how it works. Well, you asked me and I’m going to tell you. You’ve got Xi, he’s the supreme leader for life. What keeps him in power? Keeping his people employed and fed. Now, when you shut down a factory, I think Janis Mackey Frayer, who was on before me, just talked about this. When you shut down a factory, you put thousands, if not tens of thousands of people unemployed in China. They take burning torches, just like in a Frankenstein movie up to the castle. And that’s a bad outcome for the supreme leader. He knows that. Now, what’s the largest consumer market on Earth? The United States. Almost 40% of all goods consumed worldwide. What’s the largest GDP? 25 or 26% gdp of the world? The United States of America. China needs the United States of America. We have the upper hand right now. We have the cards. Now is the time to settle this because we want we may not be the largest economy forever, but right now we can squeeze Chinese — and I’m talking about the government, not the people — to comply with the laws and get a level playing field between China and the United States of America. If it takes a little volatility, a little indigestion, a little acid reflux, I don’t care. I want this thing worked out now because I can show you countless occurrences of where I have backed, as an investor, a company that gets to $5 million in sales with a consumer good or service on Amazon, on Alibaba. And then as soon as it hits $5 million, it’s knocked off. They steal the IP, they manufacture it there, they sell it back into this market. I’m not okay with it. I’m not okay with that anymore.

DIAZ-BALART: That’s the nature of the regime. What you’re calling for is a regime change in China?

O’LEARY: No, no, no. We don’t have to change the regime. Xi has to come to the table and understand he’s got to work this out. Otherwise is a bad outcome for him. And listen, there’s something else you should be aware of — and I saw this happen yesterday, it’s now public information — this Paul Atkins guy was confirmed for the head of the SEC and why that matters. I don’t know if you saw that letter from Rick Scott, what he said, ‘I’m not going to confirm you unless you agree to uphold the law that the previous administration did not uphold about delisting Chinese companies that do not abide by GAP.’ There’s billions of market cap right now listed on NASDAQ and NYSE companies that I have to compete with. I have to pay for the compliance costs. I have to be transparent. I have to abide by the law. And they don’t. And they raise money with the same bankers I use, and I have to compete with them. And they’re not being transparent. They have to get delisted. And Atkins, I guess there must have had an agreement because he got confirmed, as soon as he gets sworn in, start delisting these Chinese companies. This law was modified to only give them two years to abide and actually comply and they didn’t. So delist them! Why should I have to compete with them? Let’s squeeze and squeeze and squeeze them! Just keep going and going until they start to comply.

Watch above via MSNBC.