Obama and the Mosque: It’s Not That Hard, People

I respect the way you true believers in the left-wing media are trying to protect your boy. BUT, the problems lies in what he didn’t say. He didn’t condemn the act while putting on his professorial hat. He didn’t use his power to say there are better ways to open up dialogue. He didn’t call it offensive.

That’s Alright , Mama .

What’s legal and what’s “right” are not always the same thing.

Mediaite to Oama’s rescue AGAIN. You are aware that you, Mediaite, are on the same side as HAMAS the terrorist group? They agree with you.now when they agree with you…you know you are out of step with the people. Close to 70% said they were against the mosque…proving that once again the Liberal MSM is out of step with the people AND SANITY.

None of those arguments address the fundamental protections in the Constitution. What Hamas thinks is completely beside the point.

It’s honestly become pointless to engage in debate with Left, on this issue.

Nobody is or has , debated the constitutional right they have to build there. Yet everytime I hear or see the Lefts defense of this issue, they resort back to the ” Right’s” they have to do it.

It’s about sensitivity, and the honorable and respectable thing to do , that’s it , period .

Rachel Sklar said:
None of those arguments address the fundamental protections in the Constitution. What Hamas thinks is completely beside the point.

What about the FUNDAMENTALS of what the majority of the 9/11 families want? The Ground Zero Mosque builders say the mosque/community center was to build ‘understanding’….weeeeel it has had the opposite effect. The majority of the people are not saying THEY CAN’T BUILD IT THERE…they are asking the builders not to build it there out of respect to any of the 9/11 family members who don’t want it there…AND SO FAR THEY HAVE REFUSED, but they are saying the building is for ‘understanding’…well apparently they are lying…because if they should listen to the wishes of the MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC…and have some REAL understanding.

What part of that can’t you Liberals understand?

Thats all fine, but what Obama doesnt address is what people want to know his opinion on…should they build this Islamic Center/mosque near Ground Zero? Besides some right-wing pundits, I dont think many are arguing that they have the Constitutional right to build a mosque. But by Obama coming out with a statement in favor of their right, then hedging the next day that he wont comment on the wisdom of building it he looks ultra-political and out of touch with the 70% that disagree with it. He should have sticked with his initial “local ordinance, I ain’t joining the fray” statement, or gone ahead and given his opinion as the leader of the United States. We dont need him to intrepret the Constitution for us…as an elected leader he should feel the responsibility to give us his full opinion on it.

By not commenting on the “wisdom”, he is leaving the debate open-ended to ridicule: Does the President not believe it should be built because it is an intolerant reminder of the events that occurred less than 10 years ago? Or does the President believe it should be built but won’t comment on it because he realizes 70% of the nation and majority of his own party disagree with him he won’t say it, just imply it?

IF they go ahead and build the mosque/community center…THEN WE ARE RIGHT. They don’t care about the wishes of the people and it was not because they wanted to “out reach” to the non-Muslim community, and Liberals are spinning it as a “rights” issue….EVEN AFTER IT HAS SAID IT IS NOT ABOUT THAT.

Proving Liberals are brain dead and the majority of the MSM is only siding with Obama.

It sure would be nice if somebody could explain to me how theres not problem building the mosque and we should all get behind it but The ‘St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church’ which was completely destroyed in the September 11, 2001, attacks when the South Tower collapsed.has not had any mention how they have been stonewalled, even though they have been trying to rebuild since that day.

So let’s update the scorecard: In Manhattan you have the ‘Right’ to build a Mosque and a ‘Target’.

But you DON”T have a right to build a Greek Orthodox Church or a Wal-Mart.

Harry Reid has just said that he AGAINST the builders building the mosque/community center…SO Rachel…is Harry Reid against their “rights”…no, Reid is just saying what THE SANE people are saying, and once again the MSM is lying to protect Obama

Rachel Sklar said:
None of those arguments address the fundamental protections in the Constitution.

The argument has nothing to do with fundamental protections in the Constitution. They have the right to be free from having the government prevent them from building. That is the beginning and end of the Constitutional question. Their decision to do so is protected speech. But you know what else is protected speech? This:

So much debate, rhetoric, angst, grandstanding, outrage, outrage over the outrage, op-ed writing, pundit pontificating, facebook-note-penning and fingers jabbed emphatically in the air — and for what?

People can battle over this from here until the cows come home. If the government isn’t getting in their way, there is no Constitutional question.

So, why has the White House been talking about this daily for 4 days now?

If the Islam community really care about ” out reach ” and building bridges they should build a memorial to the 9/11 victims in a Middle East Muslim country ..

Soooo Rachel and “Mediaite Staff” can you explain to me WHY Harry Reid IS AGAINST building the Ground Zero mosque?

You know…since this is alllll about the “fundamental protections in the Constitution”? How are you gonna spin THAT ONE?

This seems like a pointless post. Few on the anti- side are claiming the developers don’t have the right to build. Per Obama, they’re arguing it’s in poor taste. People are calling Obama’s statements a walkback not because there is a logical inconsistency, but because what appeared at first to be a declaration of moral certitude became instead a muted description of law with no actual opinion or conviction behind it. This should be offensive to those on the pro- side, just as much as it appears to be besides-the-point to the anti’s.

lonestar77 said:
I respect the way you true believers in the left-wing media are trying to protect your boy. BUT, the problems lies in what he didn’t say. He didn’t condemn the act while putting on his professorial hat. He didn’t use his power to say there are better ways to open up dialogue. He didn’t call it offensive.

He didn’t, because it’s not.

Happy Ramadan!

murf said:
It’s honestly become pointless to engage in debate with Left, on this issue.

Nobody is or has , debated the constitutional right they have to build there. Yet everytime I hear or see the Lefts defense of this issue, they resort back to the ” Right’s” they have to do it.

It’s about sensitivity, and the honorable and respectable thing to do , that’s it , period .

Oversensitivity is no excuse to deny rights.

Happy Ramadan!

The Constitution allows the people to express their opinion on the Mosque.

That is a fundamental right, Sklar. Why aren’t you defending that?

If the people express their opinion and it changes the minds of the people wanting to build the Mosque that is their RIGHT.

If that happens, Sklar, are you going to say the people WON by expressing their voice to influence opinion?
Or are you going to say they stopped the poor Muslims from building their Mosque and violated THEIR rights?

Who knew a Burlington Coat Factory could be considered sacred ground!

Happy Ramadan!

gordonbloyershow said:
The Constitution allows the people to express their opinion on the Mosque.

That is a fundamental right, Sklar. Why aren’t you defending that?

If the people express their opinion and it changes the minds of the people wanting to build the Mosque that is their RIGHT.

If that happens, Sklar, are you going to say the people WON by expressing their voice to influence opinion?
Or are you going to say they stopped the poor Muslims from building their Mosque and violated THEIR rights?

Yes, people have a right to be wrong, including about building a community center at an old Burlington Coat Factory. That’s no more a mosque than a YMCA is a church.

Happy Ramadan!

The Mosque will never be built. Someone will come to the conclusion that it is wrong to build it there.

The PEOPLE will WIN. Have another pork sandwich.

Hey, new T-shirt, “We defeated the Mosque”. Happy RUM DUM.

ReFlex76

Nobody is DENYING them, just ASKING.

Assalamu Alaikum !

ReFlex76 said:
That’s no more a mosque than a YMCA is a church.

You’d better tell this guy about that:

“I was not commenting, and I will not comment, on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there,” Mr. Obama said.

Latin2 said:
Harry Reid has just said that he AGAINST the builders building the mosque/community center…SO Rachel…is Harry Reid against their “rights”…no, Reid is just saying what THE SANE people are saying, and once again the MSM is lying to protect Obama

Another reason to replace him with Russ Feingold; dammit Harry, grow a pair!

There’s already a small mosque like a block or two away. It was there well before the towers were even built. What’s the difference?

gordonbloyershow said:
The Mosque will never be built. Someone will come to the conclusion that it is wrong to build it there.

The PEOPLE will WIN. Have another pork sandwich.

Hey, new T-shirt, “We defeated the Mosque”. Happy RUM DUM.

New York’s not turning down $100 million in a difficult economy; common sense will win.

Happy Ramadan!

Also, like mentioned above, it’s as much a mosque as the JCC is a synagogue. Let’s be real.

Happy Ramadan!

Ramadan isn’t about “happy.” Save that for Eid al-Fitr.

Maybe if that 70% realized the “Ground Zero Mosque” was actually the Burlington Coat Factory Community center, quite a few of the would change their minds.

Happy Ramadan!

Kinowolf said:
There’s already a small mosque like a block or two away. It was there well before the towers were even built. What’s the difference?

13 stories. Modest worship space there doesn’t bother anyone but a few crackpots. An enormous Islamic landmark there does. See the difference?

The President said put anything there except those EVIL BOY SCOUTS!!! (and, of course, whites & Christians!)

How is it any more insensitive to build a mosque near Ground Zero than it is to have done nothing with the site since the debris was cleared?

Why isn’t anyone offended or upset that the grave of thousands is still just that, an unfilled hole in the ground, nine years after the tragedy? Shouldn’t that inspire more ire?

Frankly, I don’t think many of us have much ground to stand on. We have not been good shepherds to the legacy of those tragic events. For those that disagree with me, please, accept my invitation to walk by the ruins twice a day, five days a week.

I understand the concern that a mosque in that location would be insensitive. Believe me, I understand that very well. But I find it strange and tragic that we focus our anger at this rather than the constant mishandling of the WTC ruins.

Thank you Stephen and ReFlex76 for keeping things in a true perspective.

It’s amazing that the people who are screaming not to build it are the same ones that are asking for sensitivity. Such hypocrisy!

Rachel, The “wisdom” of the decision is the only debate. Everyone knows they have the legal right to build the mosque and that Americans are free to worship how, when, and where they choose. That being said, building that mosque at that site is a terrible idea and should not be done.

would there be any issues with building a Church or a Synagoge at the same location? If not, then this whole things screams discrimination.

..and calling it a “Ground Zero Mosque” doesn’t actually make it one. That would be like calling any business within a 1 mile radius a “Ground Zero (fill in the blank)”…just ludicrous.

Does that mean we need to rename St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s to “Ground Zero Church’s”? They are closer to the site than the proposed build in the area that was previously a “Burlington Coat Factory”, not the WTC…which is ground zero…do the wingnuts even know this?

Kinowolf said:
There’s already a small mosque like a block or two away. It was there well before the towers were even built. What’s the difference?

Are you kidding?

Does this look anything like Ground Zero?

http://newsone.com/files/2010/07/ground-zero-mosque.jpg

SpineCrusher said:
would there be any issues with building a Church or a Synagoge at the same location? If not, then this whole things screams discrimination.

No. There were no Christians or Jews among the terrorists than attacked that site.

they attacked the Burlington Coat Factory?! Alert the press!!

don’t be so droll..

STEPHEN, I gave you a thumbs up for a thoughtful post, but this mosque is a big deal to me.

I have this picture in my mind of thousands of radical Islam people having an ugly party to CELEBRATE their “victory” over the stupid Americans when the mosque is finished. Think I’m wrong or paranoid, do you remember the celebration of the PanAm bomber when he got back to Libya? Did it make you angry?

It is the sincerity of the people attempting to build this mosque that I simply do not trust. The whole project just smells bad. I do not trust their motives. Those are my feelings, and I trust them. (No, I’m not a therapist.)

It’s not about the law or anyone’s legal rights.
It’s not about our Constitution. We have a Supreme Court to decide that stuff.
It’s really not about anything our current President has said.

It’s about their MOTIVES!!

Considering the secrecy of financing, closeness to Ground Zero, lack of transparency by the Islamic leaders, does anyone HERE really trust their motives?

If it’s not that hard to explain – THEN WHY’S IT TAKING THE POTUS 4-DAYS TO EXPLAIN IT??

LOL!!

LOL!!

Keep driving this story until November!!!
- and don’t forget how the POTUS is pulling Food Stamps from the mouths of poor children to Feed his FAT, BLOATED Supporters in the Teacher’s Unions!!!!!

Arkansas Steve said:
STEPHEN, I gave you a thumbs up for a thoughtful post, but this mosque is a big deal to me.

I have this picture in my mind of thousands of radical Islam people having an ugly party to CELEBRATE their “victory” over the stupid Americans when the mosque is finished. Think I’m wrong or paranoid, do you remember the celebration of the PanAm bomber when he got back to Libya? Did it make you angry?

It is the sincerity of the people attempting to build this mosque that I simply do not trust. The whole project just smells bad. I do not trust their motives. Those are my feelings, and I trust them. (No, I’m not a therapist.)

It’s not about the law or anyone’s legal rights.
It’s not about our Constitution. We have a Supreme Court to decide that stuff.
It’s really not about anything our current President has said.

It’s about their MOTIVES!!

Considering the secrecy of financing, closeness to Ground Zero, lack of transparency by the Islamic leaders, does anyone HERE really trust their motives?

Thanks, Steve. As I said, I understand the concern. I do. I’m just upset that this is what people get riled up about rather than the poor state of the site itself. I really feel that if the WTC ruins meant anything to us as a country, then they would be more than ruins this long after the attack.

I’ve said this before, but it is hard to walk by there everyday and see that nothing has changed. Thus, I question the sincerity of those that want to act like the site is sacred.

@Mr Arkansas,

1) unless you live in NY this has absolutley nothing to do with you…honestly, it doesn’t.
2) have you met with and discussed your genuine concern with anyone involved in building the mosque. If not, how can you question their motives without a discussion?

If you don’t trust sincerity, what do you trust? Or is it that no matter what they say or do, because they’re Muslim, that you won’t trust them regardless?

So please expound on what you know, factually, about their motives. Please provide some evidence to back how you came to this conclusion. Not opinion, or emotion, just facts…please. I’m trying to make sense of why everyone seems to be blowing this out of proportion.

SpineCrusher said:
Thank you Stephen and ReFlex76 for keeping things in a true perspective.

It’s amazing that the people who are screaming not to build it are the same ones that are asking for sensitivity. Such hypocrisy!

uh…that would be the FAMILIES OF THE 9/11 VICTIMS and close to 70 percent of the US population…and you Liberals are the ones who don’t get it.

Latin2 said:
uh…that would be the FAMILIES OF THE 9/11 VICTIMS and close to 70 percent of the US population…and you Liberals are the ones who don’t get it.

No, a lot of us get it. A lot of us don’t like it. I, personally, find it insensitive. I’m not offended myself, but I really understand the concern. A lot like how I understand the concern of mothers when it comes to violence in video games. But those concerns do not matter in the face of the law. Video game designers have the right to make games with gratuitous amounts of violence. And the owners of the land have the right to build the mosque. We may hope that they change the location, but that is up to their discretion, not ours. Wouldn’t it make more sense to, in an effort to persuade, appeal to their humanity rather than generalize and attack their faith?

@Latin2

Just so you know, Liberalism come from the Latin word “liberalis” or “of freedom”…I know the word has been demonized, but it’s better to know for yourself than to believe the smears of others without doing your own homework first.

Also, not all of the families are in agreeance…once again, just do a little research…politics is a contact sport and parties use whatever information they can to their advantage.

Saying someone “doesn’t get it” doesn’t make that statement true, that is an opinion…not a fact. You would garner much more respect with your posts if you would use facts instead of hyperbole. Something that many of the daily posters still haven’t come to grips with yet.

I know it’s hard for some to understand, but majorities to not make law when the law is already decided in the Constitution. This is about equality, nothing more, nothing less. You can never please everyone with any decision, someone’s feeling always get hurt…that’s just life.

This is not the end of the world, it is not worthy of a revolution or blood-shed. It’s just a group of like-minded people who want to set up a community center that reflects their traditions and beliefs, they’re all over the country…this is nothing new, the only difference here is it’s a slow month for any real political news and the conservatives are blowing ther dog whistles as hard as they can to stir up some support for this coming election. They know nothing can be done about it, it’s comepletely legal and will not be reversed. All the necessary legal parties have signed off, this is going to happen.

Understand, this is exactly what the terrorists want…they want you afraid of your own people, they want to sew distrust and anger amongst ourselves…that is their methodology. There’s not enough of them to EVER defeat us, they need for us to defeat ourselves. Let’s not defeat ourselves.

This is the wrong horse to ride lefties. You may be correct legally, but you’re waaaay of the base politically and especially morally. You should have all just STFU about it, it’s not an attractive issue for you.

@timzank

You only say that because you feel as though you are morally superior to others, once again…that’s just an opinion.

Wow, Rachel, thanks for settling that.
Hey, we can all forget 911 happened now, Rachel Sklar has spoken.
By the way, Rachel, go fu** yourself.
Twice.

“Upshot: Obama can support the Mosque, without opining either way on whether it’s his dream project for the Lower Manhattan community. All the shouting may make things seem complicated, but actually it’s quite simple. Like Mike Barnicle says, no one needs to prove that America is a model of tolerance and equality. It just is. So — whichever side of the aisle you may vote from, or even if you don’t — I’d think we could say, God bless it for that.”

Of course this utterly begs the question. If it’s solely and strictly a matter of self-evident constitutional law, then the president didn’t need to sound off about the legal rights of the Mosque builders.

If it is, as Mike Barnicle suggests, unnecessary to attempt to prove our nation’s tolerance, then the president had no need to enter the fray.

However, this controversy is NOT just a matter of legalities or church and state protection.

To say that the president was right to expound upon the obvious (what, you have said goes without saying) but has no need to also acknowledge the essence of the dispute, belies your own argument and is misleading summation of the president’s purpose in making his statement.

It’s the height of disingenuous reasoning for you and the president to now argue that he was merely making some self-evident academic pronouncement about constitutional rights that needs no clarification in the light of the president’s own characterization of the wisdom that lies behind actions.

Try and run the president’s statement up the flagpole and salute it, Sklar, but what you’ve still got is a president who has squarely taken a stand with one particular side and who has implied a thousand words about the wisdom of their opponents.

The president knew that

SpineCrusher said:
@timzank You only say that because you feel as though you are morally superior to others, once again…that’s just an opinion.

I don’t feel morally superior to anyone, I’m just pointing out the obvious, when you jump on an unpopular side of public opinion you probably will not win votes for a while…it’s not exactly rocket science. Die hard progressives should be playing up the “sensitivity” thing by appealing to their Islamic brethren to simply reconsider locations. The Imam (and the lefties) have an opportunity to look like frickin heros, but instead they are digging in their heels.

Not a smart move, even if you are constitutionally correct.

Latin2 said:
What about the FUNDAMENTALS of what the majority of the 9/11 families want? The Ground Zero Mosque builders say the mosque/community center was to build ‘understanding’….weeeeel it has had the opposite effect. The majority of the people are not saying THEY CAN’T BUILD IT THERE…they are asking the builders not to build it there out of respect to any of the 9/11 family members who don’t want it there…AND SO FAR THEY HAVE REFUSED, but they are saying the building is for ‘understanding’…well apparently they are lying…because if they should listen to the wishes of the MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC…and have some REAL understanding.

What part of that can’t you Liberals understand?

What part of the point she’s getting at, and the Constitution, can’t YOU understand? Jesus… talk about dumber than a bag of hammers.

ifpff said:
What part of the point she’s getting at, and the Constitution, can’t YOU understand? Jesus… talk about dumber than a bag of hammers.

uh…are YOU calling Harry Reid a dummy and the MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN and the 9/11 families dummies?

If you and the Mediaite writers can’t understand that…you are idiots.

Correction:

“AND WHAT DID THE MOSQUE BUILDERS SAY after the governor of NYC said he would offer them state land to build a mosque somewhere else…THEY SAID NO. Meaning the mosque/community center builders DON’T give a flying f**k about the people of the US and the families of the victims of 9/11…and your an idiot”.

Rachel Sklar says:
August 16, 2010 at 4:24 pm (Quote)
Mediaite Staff

“None of those arguments address the fundamental protections in the Constitution. What Hamas thinks is completely beside the point.”

You should tell that to your colleague, Tommy, who insinuated that all fans of Glen Beck (as well as Beck himself) are racists because some nutjob group follows him on twitter or something. BTW, what would your opinion be if a fundamentalist sect of Baptist killed thousands in an all-black neighborhood followed by an attempt for a predominately white Baptist church to be billed a couple blocks away from the murder? Please answer honestly.

“built” not billed. Sorry.

VERY contentiously written article . This chick too anxious to defend King Obama , who , being totally cojone – free , cannot stand behind his original assertion that it’s just fine for Islamics to plant their victory flag .

All this Ground Zero Mosque debate proves one thing (that many of us already knew)

The INSANITY of Liberals meets no bounds!

If Obama was smart, he simply wouldn’t have commented on the mosque issue.

The constitutional right is there, no need for him to expound upon it.

The only relevant interjections come from NY’s government(Bloomberg et al), who have direct influence on the situation through zoning restrictions.

Obama and the left at large is just hurting themselves by commenting on this. Not very smart.

Latin2 said:
All this Ground Zero Mosque debate proves one thing (that many of us already knew) Either that Liberals are mental insane or traitors…OR BOTH. I go with the later Could you EVER imagine Liberals BACKING a super mosque/community center, with an imam who has ties to terrorists, against the 9/11 families AND the majority of Americans,…next to the 9/11 site? Just when you thought Liberals could not be ANY LOWER…they never cease to amaze me with their craziness, lying and TRAITOROUS ways. The INSANITY of Liberals meets no bounds!

someone’s doing the righties work, repeat lies and lies, but can’t prove it when someone calls them out on it. what the liberals support is freedom of religion and aren’t racists or bigots like those on the right like jones who believe all muslims are terrorists!

murf said:
It’s honestly become pointless to engage in debate with Left, on this issue.

Nobody is or has , debated the constitutional right they have to build there. Yet everytime I hear or see the Lefts defense of this issue, they resort back to the ” Right’s” they have to do it.

It’s about sensitivity, and the honorable and respectable thing to do , that’s it , period .

Fine, as long as Mormons and Southern Baptists are barred from building churches near where black people live, and as long as synagogues are banned in a two block radius of where Alex Odeh was killed by a bomb in Los Angeles.

Latin2 said:
What about the FUNDAMENTALS of what the majority of the 9/11 families want?
What part of that can’t you Liberals understand?

Who cares what they want? Rights take precedence over feelings.

puck30 said:
It sure would be nice if somebody could explain to me how theres not problem building the mosque and we should all get behind it but The ‘St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church’ which was completely destroyed in the September 11, 2001, attacks when the South Tower collapsed.has not had any mention how they have been stonewalled, even though they have been trying to rebuild since that day.

So let’s update the scorecard: In Manhattan you have the ‘Right’ to build a Mosque and a ‘Target’.

But you DON”T have a right to build a Greek Orthodox Church or a Wal-Mart.

If someone in New York is trying to keep the Greek Orthodox Church from being built then they’re breaking the law.

Jelperman said:
Who cares what they want? Rights take precedence over feelings.

Given that no rights are being violated, what’s your point?

If someone in New York is trying to keep the Greek Orthodox Church from being built then they’re breaking the law.

Really? So, if someone were pacing back and forth at the site holding a “Don’t build the Church” sign, they’re breaking the law? If someone sends out mailings trying to convince people not to donate to the Church project, they’re breaking the law? Or did you mean to say that if someone in the New York government were trying to use government power against the Church, then they’re breaking the law? That would be correct.

You might have missed this but the GZM project isn’t having any trouble with the government.

barthook said:
What’s legal and what’s “right” are not always the same thing.

You were able to express this plainly obvious truth in 11 words. You could use 11,000 trying to explain it to Sklar and she wouldn’t get it.

ReFlex76 said:
Who knew a Burlington Coat Factory could be considered sacred ground!

It stopped being a Burlington Coat Factory on September 11, 2001, when it was hit by wreckage from a plane flown into the World Trade Center.

Conservatives treat constitutional amendments as sacrosanct, so long as they agree with them. Otherwise, they’re misguided, dated, or un-American.

They also display a profound ignorance regarding the actual beliefs and motivations of the founding fathers, replacing them with unintentionally hilarious Potemkin and historically revisionist inaccuracies and misinterpretations. Because a huckster like Beck told them that that’s the truth.

I was watching the news yesterday and saw some Republican senator trying to forward the idea that the founding fathers didn’t realize what they were really doing (or some such) when they drafted the 14th amendment. The first thing I thought of, as I giggled to myself, was that the 14th amendment was adopted in the late 1860′s, more than 70 years after the constitution was drafted. Somewhere I pictured a legion of conservatives listening to similar ignorance being repeated on AM radio and accepting it as truth, and that made me sad for my country.

Pablo said:
Given that no rights are being violated, what’s your point?

Trying to get the government to stop a community center because bigots hate the religion of the people building it is a violation of their rights. Trying to scare off [insert name of minority group] with baying mobs of violent thugs and bigoted hooligans is also a violation of their rights.

http://tinyurl.com/2ftrocd

Really? So, if someone were pacing back and forth at the site holding a “Don’t build the Church” sign, they’re breaking the law? If someone sends out mailings trying to convince people not to donate to the Church project, they’re breaking the law? Or did you mean to say that if someone in the New York government were trying to use government power against the Church, then they’re breaking the law? That would be correct.

I meant the government, but it would also apply to private citizens under the Klan Act. Given the overt racism and hoodlum behavior of the Ground Zero bigots, this has gone beyond writing letters and holding up signs.

You might have missed this but the GZM project isn’t having any trouble with the government.

Thank goodness for small favors.

Attn.: puck30
Not all to sure just where you live but would almost have to guess that it is not in the NY metro area. That and/ or you have not been been following all to much of what has been going on the Financial District of Manhattan over the past 10 years or so. The re-building of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church’ has nothing at all to do with anything close to this matter. Outside of USC and NYS Laws that is.

It’s re-building “issues/problems” are directly related to and connected to the many issues surrounding the WTC site itself. And its re-development and growth.

And rather sadly, the lack of each.
And realy nothing else.

It appears that the hysteria over the mosque is dying down as more people find out what the real story is. The community center/mosque will be built and it will thrive, partly because of the principled stand taken by credible politicans and public figures like Bloomberg, Obama and, as we’re beginning to see a growing number of relatives and friends of the 9/11 victims. It will become a center where the real and positive qualities of islam will be on full display. There will be sports facilities, lecture halls and films, concerts, and, yes, there will be a place where people can pray. The ignorance and prejudice of so many people, especially on this blog, knows no bounds. It says very little that’s good about the body politic that they can be so easily emotionally swayed by the demagoguery of backward politicians and the propagandists at Fox and other rightwing outlets as well as the most backward American politicians like Ms. Palin and newt Gingrich,etc.. However, we are a sensible, compassionate people and eventually we come around to the qualities that have made this country great. I am not a Muslim and not especially religious but recognize that Islam is just another religion with a checkered history like all other religions. The Islamic terrorists do not represent what Islam is about. They are a fringe group of ignorant fanatics similar to the extremist Christian and Jewish groups who still wield a lot of influence in societies that are a lot more advanced than the middle eastern countries. After all, it was Bush who instigated much of this chaos. It is brutally inhuman to put down well over a billion people because if a small handful of crazies.

murf said:
ReFlex76

Nobody is DENYING them, just ASKING.

Assalamu Alaikum !

Assalamu Alaikum !

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008170044

LLLLLet me be clear: I’m getting a good deal more than peeved with this narcistic blow hard who is the current occupant of the White House talking down to Americans. He may think he’s enlightened and Allah’s gift to the world, but he’s proving everytime he opens his mouth that he is not well-equipped for the duties he has taken on.

That said, I agree that the Muslim CITIZENS have a right to freedom of expression, just as any US citizen. So, then it is up to the rest of the American citizens to deal with it.

The only thing I still want to know is how much Bloomberg shook Rauf down for to make the building permit “happen.”

Stephen Hogan said:
Wouldn’t it make more sense to, in an effort to persuade, appeal to their humanity rather than generalize and attack their faith?

To rational people, yes; it would.

“It’s Not That Hard, People”

I thought that was Michelle -0bama’s line.

Latin & Murf there is one point you are making which seems to be incorrect. You are saying the developers or supporters of this Islamic community center, or mosque, or whatever term you choose to describe it, are showing insensitivity by building it so close to the site of the World Trade Center. Please explain to me why these AMERICAN citizens who are expressing their faith have to apologize for or somehow represent the barbaric acts of 17 Saudi Arabian terrorists? Explain yourselves.
If tomorrow (God forbid) twenty IRA terrorists blow up for example, the Statue of Liberty, should Catholics be banned from building a church on Staten Island? Can you admit that this is a false label of guilt?
The sick individuals who perpetrated the fiendish acts of 9/11 were terrorists. They were members of a terrorist group, Al Qaeda, whose current ranks number less than 300 in the entire world according to recent US intelligence figures. They DO NOT represent the faith of over a billion human beings.
Can you accept that point? Is there any room for dialogue in this discussion group? Can we agree on that?

There are two points that I would like to make clear: 1) we are not at war with Islam. those responsible for the murderous acts of 9/11 were terrorists, acting on behalf of their terrorist cell, named Al Qaeda. They most definitely do NOT represent the faith of over 1.4 billion human beings. More Muslims have died as a result of Al Qaeda´s numerous terror attacks than have Christians or Jews.
2) our country is founded upon a BEDROCK of religious freedom. Our rights as citizens are not dependent upon public opinion polls. In fact, our rights exist expressly as a safeguard against mob rule, to protect the rights of the minority against the majority. Chipping away at our Constitutional rights will do our country no good in either the short or long term.

Are the developers behind the Park 51 / Islamic community center in lower Manhattan / “World Trade Center Mosque” American citizens? Yes

Do American citizens have the right to express their religious beliefs in houses of worship with the complete and total guarantee against bigotry and religious intolerance: Yes

Is this right contingent upon meeting a popularity test or the approval of fellow citizens? No

Are the perpetrators of the vile deeds of 9/11 the official representatives of the Islamic religion? No

Do the vast majority of Muslims, especially those who are AMERICAN CITIZENS oppose and denounce the vile deeds of 9/11? Yes

Did Muslims, among them many American citizens who practiced that faith, die in the attacks of 9/11? Yes

Should all Muslims, and in particular AMERICAN CITIZENS who practice this faith, bear the collective guilt for the barbaric acts of 17 Saudi Arabian nationals who were sick fanatics following the twisted ideas of zealots far removed from the religion´s mainstream? No

Then this Islamic community center should be no more a problem with citizens of lower Manhattan than would a synagogue or a church.

Case closed.

If the relatives of victims of 9/11 are sadly misinformed into thinking somehow the spiritual leaders of Islam in America owe them an apology that is a very unfortunate state of affairs, but it is no less unguided and wrong.

It is almost exactly like asking an apology or sensitivity from the Catholic Cardinal of New York after a vicious IRA bombing in Ireland. The established church has no guilt stemming from the sick acts of individuals who do not represent their faith.

Woah, Woah….didn’t this site get the message?

We only follow the law of this land whenever it benefits right-wingers

If it doesn’t, WE NEED TO STICK WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND THE FOUNDERS!
If it does, it is TIME TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!