tommy i think you need to go back to journalism school….oh wait

I’m not a big fan of Beck, but I found it hilarious that “liberal-open-minded” Bill Press would slander Mormons in his failed attempt to make his point. Classic progressive.

Press needs to wait till after the show to pull out the flask . Is this Christopher the lousiest writer on the Internet , or just this site ? Big Eddie says ” No offense ” .

If Glenn is sensitive about attacks on his religion, let’s hope he doesn’t read Valkyrie’s hundreds of posts here on Beck and Mormonism.

Beck just needs new material. He is always playing the victim–throwing red meat to his fans, who also feel like victims.

$100 says Beck barely read the article.

Tommy, let me get this straight:

Beck describing Obama’s religion as a “perversion of the gospel” IS attacking his religion.

But you, in article Glenn referenced, saying “observing the absurdity of magic underwear is immediately undercut when you follow it up by pointing out that it’s the wafers that are magic” was NOT attacking his religion.

And you saying all religions “have no rational basis” is NOT an attack on all religion

First, you are obviously a hypocrite for attacking Beck for attacking a specific religion when you attacked his religion, and all religion (albeit subtly).

But then on top of this, you are a hypocrite again, for demonizing hypocricy in that article, and then being a hypocrite yourself!

Mediatite can do much better than you.

At least Mormonism has been distracting valk from talking about Rev. Moon.

Bill Press, the crazy old uncle in he attic. Who gives a crap what that silly old
drunk thinks about anything ? Well he acts drunk !

At least Christopher is a gentleman . On his big date the other night , he said ” Cousin Aggie , can I carry your tray ? “

This is crap, Tommy. It was from your original article.

It make more sense for Press to have criticized Beck, if Beck was straying from the tenets of Mormonism.

Beck ventured forth his opinion that the president’s religious dictates are centered in liberation theology, a theology that is at odds with the United Church of Christ (the president’s denomination) and mainline Christianity, in general.

To suggest that Press insulting the Mormon Church is on par with Beck criticizing the president for what Beck believes is an aberration to the president’s own professed religion (the religion of mainline Christians) is nonsense.

In his column today, loyal Glenn Beck Radio Program listener, Tommy Christopher, attempted to explain how when he demonized all religion in a previous column that he wasn’t actually attacking religion and further he tried to discredit Gleen Beck and make it appear that Mr. Beck does attack religion by quoting Mr. Beck as having said that Black Liberation Theology is a ‘perversion of the gospel’.

…………Mr. Christopher: it’s not an ‘attack’ if it is simply stating the truth. BLT IS a perversion of the gospel. Mr. Obama is entitled to subscribe to whatever perversions he so desires. ……If not for the tiny little fact that the Prez is trying to force it on the rest of us via policy……. it wouldn’t be an issue. Mr. Beck has never tried to force his religion on anyone to my knowledge and Mr. Beck’s religion does not shape policy.

Matt Herrick said:
I’m not a big fan of Beck, but I found it hilarious that “liberal-open-minded” Bill Press would slander Mormons in his failed attempt to make his point. Classic progressive.

How exactly did he slander Mormons?

And Eleventy million billion old right wing nitwits were at Beckapalooza to see their messiah , to them there is no religion except the nonsense beck pulls out of his behind,

WideAwakeNow said:
In his column today, loyal Glenn Beck Radio Program listener, Tommy Christopher, attempted to explain how when he demonized all religion in a previous column that he wasn’t actually attacking religion and further he tried to discredit Gleen Beck and make it appear that Mr. Beck does attack religion by quoting Mr. Beck as having said that Black Liberation Theology is a ‘perversion of the gospel’. …………Mr. Christopher: it’s not an ‘attack’ if it is simply stating the truth. BLT IS a perversion of the gospel. Mr. Obama is entitled to subscribe to whatever perversions he so desires. ……If not for the tiny little fact that the Prez is trying to force it on the rest of us via policy……. it wouldn’t be an issue. Mr. Beck has never tried to force his religion on anyone to my knowledge and Mr. Beck’s religion does not shape policy.

Neither does the president’s. He has been very clear that he will not allow his religious beliefs to dictate policy.

Which is why he stated personally he doesn’t approve of same-sex marriage, but he would not do anything to prevent it.

..and talking about “perversion of the gospel” do you know ANYTHING about Mormonism?

and “never tried to force his religion on anyone” did you read, go to or watch anything regarding his rally last Saturday?

Crawl out from under that rock and join 2010 buddy.

SpineCrusher said:
and “never tried to force his religion on anyone” did you read, go to or watch anything regarding his rally last Saturday?

Crawl out from under that rock and join 2010 buddy.

Did YOU watch the rally? He never mentioned Mormonism and never encouraged any specific religion. He only encouraged Judeo-Christian values in general. He even quoted Jefferson saying: “question with boldness the very existence of God. . .”

Doesn’t sound like forcing his religion on anyone to me.

jess5691 said:
But you, in article Glenn referenced, saying “observing the absurdity of magic underwear is immediately undercut when you follow it up by pointing out that it’s the wafers that are magic” was NOT attacking his religion.

And you saying all religions “have no rational basis” is NOT an attack on all religion

A. No, I wasn’t attacking Mormons, I was referencing a popular attack used by LDS opponents. I have consistently held that such attacks are unfair and unacceptable.

B. No, as I explained in my original story, if you have a rational reason to believe something, it isn’t an article of faith, it’s a theory, or a hypothesis, or something else.

Cecelia said:
This is crap, Tommy. It was from your original article.

It make more sense for Press to have criticized Beck, if Beck was straying from the tenets of Mormonism.

Beck ventured forth his opinion that the president’s religious dictates are centered in liberation theology, a theology that is at odds with the United Church of Christ (the president’s denomination) and mainline Christianity, in general.

To suggest that Press insulting the Mormon Church is on par with Beck criticizing the president for what Beck believes is an aberration to the president’s own professed religion (the religion of mainline Christians) is nonsense.

Let’s see if your comment holds up to a simple test:

Bill Press ventured forth his opinion that Glenn Beck’s religious dictates are centered in Mormonism, a theology that is at odds with mainline Christianity, in general.

To suggest that Beck is insulting the President’s church is on par with Press criticizing Beck for what Press believes is an aberration to Beck’s own professed religion (the religion of mainline Christians) is nonsense.

Big Eddie said:
At least Christopher is a gentleman . On his big date the other night

he inflated her before he had sex with her.

jess5691 said:
Tommy, let me get this straight:

Beck describing Obama’s religion as a “perversion of the gospel” IS attacking his religion.

But you, in article Glenn referenced, saying “observing the absurdity of magic underwear is immediately undercut when you follow it up by pointing out that it’s the wafers that are magic” was NOT attacking his religion.

And you saying all religions “have no rational basis” is NOT an attack on all religion

First, you are obviously a hypocrite for attacking Beck for attacking a specific religion when you attacked his religion, and all religion (albeit subtly).

But then on top of this, you are a hypocrite again, for demonizing hypocricy in that article, and then being a hypocrite yourself!

Mediatite can do much better than you.

I think both articles are quite good. He wasn’t attacking religion. He simply noted that all religions have articles of faith that others might see as silly. His comments about not being rational was preceded by an explanation of Faith similar to the one in “Hebrews 11: 1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” I think he meant it as an observation about faith rather than a blanket insult. He even says he does it too. He quoted a biblical passage for his overall point and called it a great lesson. He made a valid point about Beck. It’s a little bizarre for him to describe someones religion as a perversion of the gospel when so many would consider his religion the same thing. He’s got a right to his opinion but it sure seems like he’s missing the bean in his own eye.

Tommy Christopher said:
A. No, I wasn’t attacking Mormons, I was referencing a popular attack used by LDS opponents. I have consistently held that such attacks are unfair and unacceptable.

B. No, as I explained in my original story, if you have a rational reason to believe something, it isn’t an article of faith, it’s a theory, or a hypothesis, or something else.

First, You said the Mormon belief in magic underwear is “absurd” and called the Catholic belief in transubstantiation “magic” in order to insult it. Anyone reading the paragraph containing that line would correctly claim you were insulting those beliefs as stupid, silly, or in your words, “absurd.” Please note that I agree with you about the merits of those religious beliefs, and it is certainly your opinion to call them absurd, really I’m commenting on your hypocrisy, as I stated before.

Second your are correct in saying “rational” does imply theory or hypothesis. But you said in your article that religion implies irrational, which IS an attack on religion These are two very different things.

I wouldn’t cut Beckerhead any slack here. He has been on a lying spree since Friday night that would make Nixon blush. The monument story, the inaugural address story, the Mediate story, the crowd size. Lie. Lie. Lie. Lie.

Even the National Archives had to say he was a liar on the inaugural address, like i said his minions will beleive anything he literally pulls out of his behimd

Of course, we have the problem that the elements becoming the Body and Blood is Scriptural whilst magic underwear is simplu false doctrine.

Attacking Beck as a Mormon doesn’t address the issue of how Obama’s church perverts the gospel. Beck’s Mormonism is a red herring.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/obama_black_liberation_theolog_1.html

When Barack Obama spoke to the graduates of Wesleyan College last week, taking the place of ailing Senator Edward Kennedy, he gave a commencement address not unlike those anywhere. I, like others, read the transcript.

And here are the words that gave me a shudder:

It’s because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition. (emphasis mine)

“Collective salvation” is an idea that comes from Marxism, Liberation Theology in particular, and is absolutely antithetical to traditional Christianity. When it comes to facing God on one’s own judgment day, there is no hiding in groups, no “collective” anything.

The idea of “collective salvation” or “collective redemption” is pure Marxism; there is nothing whatsoever Christian about it.

As Pope Benedict XVI has warned about Liberation Theology:

Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes, not divine, but demonic.”
– Truth and Tolerance; p. 116

Cecelia said:
This is crap, Tommy. It was from your original article.

It make more sense for Press to have criticized Beck, if Beck was straying from the tenets of Mormonism.

Beck ventured forth his opinion that the president’s religious dictates are centered in liberation theology, a theology that is at odds with the United Church of Christ (the president’s denomination) and mainline Christianity, in general.

To suggest that Press insulting the Mormon Church is on par with Beck criticizing the president for what Beck believes is an aberration to the president’s own professed religion (the religion of mainline Christians) is nonsense.

Cecelia, I respectfully submit that with so many denominations and different beliefs in Christianity it’s hard to call anything mainline Christianity. Beck , a Mormon, believes Jesus is savior. So do the churches Obama has gone to and liberation theology. Liberation Theology believes in helping the poor, so do Mormons, Baptists, Catholics etc. If you get down to examining doctrine more than that, Mormonism will probably look pretty different than most denominations with their present day prophet, 12 apostles, other books of scripture, etc. That’s why Beck is being criticized for calling some other theology a perversion or referencing the Pope’s quote of demonic.

Big Eddie said:
Press needs to wait till after the show to pull out the flask . Is this Christopher the lousiest writer on the Internet , or just this site ? Big Eddie says ” No offense ” .

He’s not a BAD writer, just the most biased writer on this site, with the exception of that snarky douche Bershad.

Tommy Christopher said:
Bill Press ventured forth his opinion that Glenn Beck’s religious dictates are centered in Mormonism, a theology that is at odds with mainline Christianity, in general.

To suggest that Beck is insulting the President’s church is on par with Press criticizing Beck for what Press believes is an aberration to Beck’s own professed religion (the religion of mainline Christians) is nonsense.

My statements more than hold up to your “simple test”, Tommy.

Beck didn’t criticize an entire religious sect. He criticized ONE man for harboring beliefs that run counter to the doctrine of THAT SAME MAN’S OWN professed denomination within the man’s own professed religion.

On the other hand, Press didn’t criticize Beck for harboring ideas that are alien to Mormonism. Press insulted all Mormons by implying that the whole of Mormonism has nothing relevant to say about Christianity in general.

That is NOT tit-for-tat.

WideAwakeNow said:
In his column today, loyal Glenn Beck Radio Program listener, Tommy Christopher, attempted to explain how when he demonized all religion in a previous column that he wasn’t actually attacking religion and further he tried to discredit Gleen Beck and make it appear that Mr. Beck does attack religion by quoting Mr. Beck as having said that Black Liberation Theology is a ‘perversion of the gospel’.

…………Mr. Christopher: it’s not an ‘attack’ if it is simply stating the truth. BLT IS a perversion of the gospel. Mr. Obama is entitled to subscribe to whatever perversions he so desires. ……If not for the tiny little fact that the Prez is trying to force it on the rest of us via policy……. it wouldn’t be an issue. Mr. Beck has never tried to force his religion on anyone to my knowledge and Mr. Beck’s religion does not shape policy.

You may not agree with liberation theology but it is no more a perversion than Mormonism, Catholicism, or the 100s of Christian varieties. I think the Bible says, “All have fallen short” doesn’t it? Christopher was right in quoting the passage he did in the last article.
Matthew 7:3″Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Christians have been using their beliefs to try and establish policy for some time and are still doing it. I’d rather judge the issues on their merits and the Constitution. I’d rather judge a person by their character and actions than some religious label.

CosmosDan said:
Cecelia, I respectfully submit that with so many denominations and different beliefs in Christianity it’s hard to call anything mainline Christianity. Beck , a Mormon, believes Jesus is savior. So do the churches Obama has gone to and liberation theology. Liberation Theology believes in helping the poor, so do Mormons, Baptists, Catholics etc. If you get down to examining doctrine more than that, Mormonism will probably look pretty different than most denominations with their present day prophet, 12 apostles, other books of scripture, etc. That’s why Beck is being criticized for calling some other theology a perversion or referencing the Pope’s quote of demonic.

That’s simplistic to say the least, CosmoDan, but MORE TO THE POINT, it has nothing to do with Tommy’s argument that Press did no worse that Beck.

The Real Royal King said:
Of course, we have the problem that the elements becoming the Body and Blood is Scriptural whilst magic underwear is simplu false doctrine.

In my book, so is the Immaculate Conception.

jess5691 said:
Did YOU watch the rally? He never mentioned Mormonism and never encouraged any specific religion. He only encouraged Judeo-Christian values in general. He even quoted Jefferson saying: “question with boldness the very existence of God. . .”

Doesn’t sound like forcing his religion on anyone to me.

He actually got that quote wrong and has got it wrong before as well. It’s nice that he had his black robe group representing so many different religions and praised Judeo Christian values.He even had John Hagee up there. It seems he violated the spirit of his what he said on Saturday when he described liberation theology as a perversion the very next day.

Tommy, enjoyed both of your articles and will look for more in the future. Keep up the insightful work.

Mr B said:
And here are the words that gave me a shudder:

It’s because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition. (emphasis mine)

There’s nothing about that phrase that is out of line with the teachings of Jesus. Jesus did say we should care for one another and help those in need right?

Cecelia said:
In my book, so is the Immaculate Conception.

It is a complex and widely misunderstood doctrine, even in the Church. I have worshipped with many RC’s who believe that the doctrine concerns Jesus’ birth instead of Mary’s.

jess5691 said:
First, You said the Mormon belief in magic underwear is “absurd” and called the Catholic belief in transubstantiation “magic” in order to insult it. Anyone reading the paragraph containing that line would correctly claim you were insulting those beliefs as stupid, silly, or in your words, “absurd.” Please note that I agree with you about the merits of those religious beliefs, and it is certainly your opinion to call them absurd, really I’m commenting on your hypocrisy, as I stated before.

Second your are correct in saying “rational” does imply theory or hypothesis. But you said in your article that religion implies irrational, which IS an attack on religion These are two very different things.

I really think you missed the point. He wasn’t personally saying he thought those beliefs were absurd. He was saying everyone, including himself has some things we accept on faith that others would consider absurd. That was the point of this sentence from the previous article.
“Unfortunately, observing the absurdity of magic underwear is immediately undercut when you follow it up by pointing out that it’s the wafers that are magic.”
His reference to religion being irrational was linked to his definition of faith.{ Belief without evidence.} Because it is without evidence it can be described as irrational. It’s not an insult but an observation. It’s strange for one faith based belief, having no evidence , to describe another evidence free belief as a perversion. That was the point. It’s like saying praying with beads is fine but praying on a rug is a perversion. Doesn’t make sense does it. That’s essentially what both Beck and Press did.

Cecelia said:
That’s simplistic to say the least, CosmoDan, but MORE TO THE POINT, it has nothing to do with Tommy’s argument that Press did no worse that Beck.

How exactly is it simplistic?. My point was that the term you chose, “mainline Christianity” is too simplistic , considering how Christian doctrine varies from denomination to denomination.

Tommy’s right. Beck has a right to his opinion about what is a perversion and so does Press. Saturday Beck was celebrating Judeo Christian beliefs by having his black robe group representing a wide variety of beliefs. Sunday he was calling Liberation theology a perversion. To use my previous analogy, it’s like saying praying with beads is okay but praying on a rug is a perversion. It doesn’t make much sense.
Let’s stick to discussing the issues , with the relevant facts, and leave religious doctrine out of it.

CosmosDan said:
His reference to religion being irrational was linked to his definition of faith.{ Belief without evidence.} Because it is without evidence it can be described as irrational. It’s not an insult but an observation.

First, I’d like to say how nice it is that we can have such an exchange of ideas without insults, which usually happens on this and other comment sections.

You are making this too complicated. Tommy implied that religion (and thus followers of religion) is irrational. Calling someone Irrational is an insult. Ergo, Tommy insulted those of religion.

And as I said before, it is impossible to read the “magic underwear” paragraph without perceiving Tommy as calling those religious beliefs absurd, silly, etc. (attacking them).

Once again, this really doesn’t bother me as he is entitled to his opinion (I myself think atheism is irrational); it is the hypocrisy that bothers me.

jess5691 said:
First, I’d like to say how nice it is that we can have such an exchange of ideas without insults, which usually happens on this and other comment sections.

You are making this too complicated. Tommy implied that religion (and thus followers of religion) is irrational. Calling someone Irrational is an insult. Ergo, Tommy insulted those of religion.

And as I said before, it is impossible to read the “magic underwear” paragraph without perceiving Tommy as calling those religious beliefs absurd, silly, etc. (attacking them).

Once again, this really doesn’t bother me as he is entitled to his opinion (I myself think atheism is irrational); it is the hypocrisy that bothers me.

Irrational isn’t an insult if it’s accurate. His point was we all {he included himself} believe some things without any evidence. We are all irrational about some things. I believe he was using a mild version of the term recognizing it as a trait most humans share in common about one thing or the other. All religion is faith based, believing without evidence, right? In Tommy’s view that by definition is mildly irrational. I’d agree he wasn’t very tactful in his choice of words but I think his larger point is correct.
Wouldn’t you say it was absurd for a Catholic clinging to rosary beads to describe a Muslim’s prayer rug as a perversion? I would, and that’s essentially what Beck and Press did which Tommy was trying to point out.
We can respectfully disagree, and thanks to you to for polite reasonable discussion.
I like Mediate and it’s disturbing how often comments are just an exchange of insults rather than ideas.

So now it’s a wash right Tommy? Beck questions Obama’s faith and Press insulted his (and all Mormons) religion. So now BOTH sides are playing the “your religion isn’t good enough game”. Soooooo there BOTH kinda scummy in your book RIGHT? Now all those feeling you had for Beck… you surely have for Press RIGHT. Is Press dealing in “Toxic Talk”… I think so… do YOU??? As a non-believer I say a pox on both there houses. But I have to wonder if you truly feel the same disgust for your buddy Press that you reserved for Beck? That religion insulting, faith questioning, judgmental, holier-than-thou, scumbag Press should rot in hell… if I believed in such places.

Is Beck becoming vulnerable to a persecution complex? Or just looking for ratings?

CosmosDan said:
How exactly is it simplistic?. My point was that the term you chose, “mainline Christianity” is too simplistic , considering how Christian doctrine varies from denomination to denomination.

Tommy’s right. Beck has a right to his opinion about what is a perversion and so does Press. Saturday Beck was celebrating Judeo Christian beliefs by having his black robe group representing a wide variety of beliefs. Sunday he was calling Liberation theology a perversion. To use my previous analogy, it’s like saying praying with beads is okay but praying on a rug is a perversion. It doesn’t make much sense.
Let’s stick to discussing the issues , with the relevant facts, and leave religious doctrine out of it.

Well, since YOU are the only one (aside from The Real Royal King) who is discussing doctrine, your last sentence is a puzzle.

Again, Beck criticized ONE man (NO MATTER whether you agree with Beck’s criticism or not).

Press said, “We don’t need a Mormon to teach Christians what the Gospels are all about”– thus insulting the ENTIRE Church of Jesus of the Latter Day Saints, by implying that they aren’t Christians.

Surely, that’s not too difficult for you ascertain.

The Real Royal King said:
Cecelia said:
In my book, so is the Immaculate Conception.
It is a complex and widely misunderstood doctrine, even in the Church. I have worshipped with many RC’s who believe that the doctrine concerns Jesus’ birth instead of Mary’s.

Huh? I thought it always concerned the birth of Jesus.

Cecelia said:
Well, since YOU are the only one (aside from The Real Royal King) who is discussing doctrine, your last sentence is a puzzle.

Again, Beck criticized ONE man (NO MATTER whether you agree with Beck’s criticism or not).

Press said, “We don’t need a Mormon to teach Christians what the Gospels are all about”– thus insulting the ENTIRE Church of Jesus of the Latter Day Saints, by implying that they aren’t Christians.

Surely, that’s not too difficult for you ascertain.

Actually Cecelia when you said

Cecelia said:
Beck ventured forth his opinion that the president’s religious dictates are centered in liberation theology, a theology that is at odds with the United Church of Christ (the president’s denomination) and mainline Christianity, in general.

you are talking about doctrine.
Since quite a few people accept liberation theology when Beck calls it a perversion he is not just talking about one person is he? He’s doing the same thing Press did. He’s implying something negative about a groups beliefs.
Lots of Christians don’t think Mormons are really Christians just as Beck thinks liberation theology is a perversion.The point Tommy was correctly making is that both remarks are equally inappropriate.

@ Cecelia

Additionally when I said Let’s stick to discussing the issues , with the relevant facts, and leave religious doctrine out of it. I meant You, me, Beck, Press, and everybody. Beck could have just apologized for calling our President a racist, but instead he chose to make doctrinal comments about a particular theology. He may be completely sincere but it strikes me as a contradiction to what he was preaching about only a day earlier.

MR.B….”Collective salvation” is an idea that comes from Marxism, Liberation Theology in particular, and is absolutely antithetical to traditional Christianity.”

It also comes from Mahayana Buddhism.

A bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. In other words these enlightened beings hold off their final stage of awakening, NIRVANA, to help and guide all sentient beings reach this level collectively.

I knew it! obama isn’t a Muslim, hes a Buddhist Maoist!!!! quick everybody hide your white women and git yur guns!!!! lol,..,hmmm i guess the plan is still the same.

As for collective salvation being antithetical to christianity. Cmon, your not that stupid are you. If that was true i wouldnt get all those damn christian missionaries at my door. Use your brain jackass

Mr B said:
Attacking Beck as a Mormon doesn’t address the issue of how Obama’s church perverts the gospel. Beck’s Mormonism is a red herring. http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/obama_black_liberation_theolog_1.html

American Thinker saying collective salvation is Marxist doesn’t make it so. From http://www.marxist.com:

“Marxists stand on the basis of philosophical materialism, which rules out the existence of any supernatural entity, or anything outside or “above” nature.”

Salvation and eternal life, collective or otherwise, goes against basic tenets of Marxism. These aren’t the first critics to equate liberation theology with Marxism, notably the Catholic Church has done so too, but that’s the real red herring, not Beck’s mormonism. Marxism doesn’t have a copyright on the idea of class struggles. Class struggles have existed throughout history in all civilizations, and equating anyone who talks about them to Marxists is a transparent appeal to spite.

nicely done dave!!!!

-note…..more specifically, marx coined this philosophy as dialectical materialism

CosmosDan said:
Actually Cecelia when you said

you are talking about doctrine.
Since quite a few people accept liberation theology when Beck calls it a perversion he is not just talking about one person is he? He’s doing the same thing Press did. He’s implying something negative about a groups beliefs.
Lots of Christians don’t think Mormons are really Christians just as Beck thinks liberation theology is a perversion.The point Tommy was correctly making is that both remarks are equally inappropriate.

I’m sorry but iterating Beck’s argument as contrasted with Press’ is not “talking about doctrine”.

Equating a particular tenet such as liberation theology as being tantamount to an entire Christian sect ( such as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints) is a false comparison.

With your logic, no one could voice any opposition to a Christian doctrine as being outside of and unrecognizable with historical Christian faith, without implying that its adherents (with their entire scope of beliefs) were not Christians.

Suggesting that Americans do not recognize traditional Christianity in liberation theology (or any other particular doctrine) is a bit different from suggesting that an entire sect is outside the parameters of “Christ’s Body” (the Church)

Press didn’t say that a particular doctrine was completely incompatible with Christianity, he implied that the whole of Mormonism is that.

It’s like equating

CosmosDan said:
@ Cecelia

Additionally when I said Let’s stick to discussing the issues , with the relevant facts, and leave religious doctrine out of it. I meant You, me, Beck, Press, and everybody. Beck could have just apologized for calling our President a racist, but instead he chose to make doctrinal comments about a particular theology. He may be completely sincere but it strikes me as a contradiction to what he was preaching about only a day earlier.

Why would Beck “leave religious doctrine out of it” when to his thinking it had a direct effect upon why he felt as he did?

Why did you call the president a racist? Because I mistook the president’s as having a person-of-color vs a caucasian bias, rather than his having a victim-vs-oppressor focus in his theology.

In a week where the media has been focused on nothing more than the public perception of the president’s religious beliefs, Beck answer was not only honest, but pertinent to the public discussion.

“Beck answer was not only honest, but pertinent to the public discussion.”

Really?!?!?! sounds like tabloid politics to me

@cecelia..do you think collective salvation is antithetical to christianity?

Oops…

To finish my last sentence in my 12:28am post:

It’s like equating the remark “Unlike Pentecostals, I see nothing that is recognizable to historical Christianity in the doctrine of the Rapture”, to the statement, “We don’t need Pentecostals to teach Christians what the Gospels are all about”.

nrgetick said:
@cecelia..do you think collective salvation is antithetical to christianity?

Yes and no.

who cares!!! My boyfriend thinks the same with me. He- is a black man, lol. We met online at an interracial dating site_________ **** B l a c k W h i t e C u p i d (C o m) ***** ______—a nice and free place for singles- black & white, to interact with each other. Maybe you wanna check out or- tell your friends. ;) ;)ljpo

@cecelia……thanks for elaborating on that

Glenn Beck is trying another publicity stunt by giving a right wing tea party rally on Martin Luther King’s i have a dream speech on August 27th.
http://naturacoloncleanse.org/

Beck has parsed, researched, discussed and analyzed statements and beliefs of the POTUS. He has discussed and investigated statements and stories that don’t jive with facts. He has informed on the foundations of BLT and Obama’s path to his faith. He stated that BLT is a perversion of the gospel.

Bill Press insulted Mormons with his comment. “We don’t need a Mormon to teach Christians what the gospels are all about.”

Tommy Christopher seems to mock all religions with his comments: “observing the absurdity of magic underwear is immediately undercut when you follow it up by pointing out that it’s the wafers that are magic”

Obama put his religious beliefs out there for examination. When the tapes came out, and Obama’s flip flopping started, it went under a microscope. His stories don’t jive with facts. That’s newsworthy. And that’s kinda Beck’s job, isn’t it?

I don’t see how Beck owes Obama an apology for that.

Dave Be said:
American Thinker saying collective salvation is Marxist doesn’t make it so. From http://www.marxist.com:

“Marxists stand on the basis of philosophical materialism, which rules out the existence of any supernatural entity, or anything outside or “above” nature.”

Salvation and eternal life, collective or otherwise, goes against basic tenets of Marxism. These aren’t the first critics to equate liberation theology with Marxism, notably the Catholic Church has done so too, but that’s the real red herring, not Beck’s mormonism. Marxism doesn’t have a copyright on the idea of class struggles. Class struggles have existed throughout history in all civilizations, and equating anyone who talks about them to Marxists is a transparent appeal to spite.

Thanks Dave. That’s some good info. It’s good to see people supporting rational arguments with facts.

Cecelia said:
Why would Beck “leave religious doctrine out of it” when to his thinking it had a direct effect upon why he felt as he did?

Why did you call the president a racist? Because I mistook the president’s as having a person-of-color vs a caucasian bias, rather than his having a victim-vs-oppressor focus in his theology.

In a week where the media has been focused on nothing more than the public perception of the president’s religious beliefs, Beck answer was not only honest, but pertinent to the public discussion.

The discussion wasn’t about Obama’s religion. Beck brought it up on his own.
Yes he has a right to his opinions. Others have a right to point out apparent contradictions in his words and behavior. Saturday he has a giant rally that honors MLK and civil rights about helping our country by returning to God. He has his black robe group on stage to signify the unity of religious thought and purpose , including the controversial John Hagee. Then Sunday, when asked about calling our president a racist, {which seems to contradict Saturdays event} he claims the presidents theology is a perversion.{it should be noted he really doesn’t know what the president believes. He’s guessing} That also seems to contradict the spirit of his black robe society. I hope you now see that by making such a statement about liberation theology he was commenting on a lot more people than just the President. It seems a little strange considering his own denomination is a lot more doctrinally at odds with most Christians than liberation theology. Then he claims his religion is being attacked when someone does,..exactly what he did.

I don’t find Beck to be an honest person in the way he handles facts and his approach often smacks of hypocrisy {just my opinion} Saturday , it’s “let’s heal our nation by returning to God and let’s get all these religions together to celebrate God regardless of creed”. Then Sunday it’s “except for the president , because his is a perversion” Then Monday when people are pointing out this contradiction he claims his religion is being attacked while also claiming that calling liberation theology a perversion and using the Pope’s demonic quote isn’t attacking the Presidents. It seems fairly obvious to me that he is playing to his fans rather than showing any real concern for principles or the truth which he also kept talking about on Saturday.

He can talk about doctrine all he wants but that leaves Mormon doctrine open to discussion. Personally, I think the specifics of doctrine should be left out of politics and policy.

Azarkhan said:
Huh? I thought it always concerned the birth of Jesus.

No, the doctrine says that Mary’s conception in Anne was without the stain of original sin. Just how that happened is a bit less clear. From the early days of the Western Church, the Curiate felt that if we were to affirm our faith by saying that Jesus Christ was begotten and not made, we had to be certain that the “begotteness” was free of sin. With Mary’s conception of Jesus, no problem. It was a Virgin Birth, and Mary remains Perpetual Virgin. But what of Mary’s birth? Since Jesus was begotten of Mary and the Spirit, wouldn’t Mary’s stain of original sin, if any she had, be passed on to Jesus? How to avoid that? Declare Mary’s conception Immaculate. Both the Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility were mid-19th century ex cathedra pronouncements. They are recent, misunderstood and adherence to either is somewhat lukewarm and sketchy. Like many Catholics, I don’t get overly concerned with the IC. I don’t question the full divinity and the full humanity of Christ, so all the rest can sort itself out. Similarly, like many Catholics, I think Inafallibility is nice if you can get by with it. To my knowledge, the only infallible men are Dick O’Morris and Gle(n)n O’Beckerhead. The Pope leads by his faith, his learning and his moral suasion. Presumably, when we get a female Pope, as will happen well into the future, she will lead by the same qualities, plus her shared feelings.

sarainitaly said:
Bill Press insulted Mormons with his comment. “We don’t need a Mormon to teach Christians what the gospels are all about.”

No, he did not.

Press was simply stating the position of his Church and all mainline Christian churches with reference to Mormonism. Those outside the Church cannot proclaim the Church’s teachings. It is very simple, and I am sure you would agree that while Zoroastrianism is a fine belief system and a fine ethical model for living a righteous life, it is not a Christian faith. Zoroastrians don’t set themselves up as interpreters of Christianity. Press recognizes this, and his objection is not to Mormon “theology” or practice, but to the Mormon presumptiveness of telling Christians what Christianity is. That is far from an insult. Indeed, the only insult is to Christians in the Mormon presumptiveness.

THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,
FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,
EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

The Real Royal King said:
No, he did not. Press was simply stating the position of his Church and all mainline Christian churches with reference to Mormonism. Those outside the Church cannot proclaim the Church’s teachings. It is very simple, and I am sure you would agree that while Zoroastrianism is a fine belief system and a fine ethical model for living a righteous life, it is not a Christian faith. Zoroastrians don’t set themselves up as interpreters of Christianity. Press recognizes this, and his objection is not to Mormon “theology” or practice, but to the Mormon presumptiveness of telling Christians what Christianity is. That is far from an insult. Indeed, the only insult is to Christians in the Mormon presumptiveness. THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

I probably should add that “Mormon presumptiveness” may be overly broad. Much of Mormonism exists in the shadows, and much Mormon history and practice cannot be discussed with we mere “Gentiles”. O’Beckerhead is uncharacteristic of Mormons and somewhat outside Mormon practice in his loud, brassy and brash proclamations of his faith. I am sure the Mormon fathers do not welcome this light upon their history and practices, much as they dislike the recent attention to the Mormon Massacre of the Gentiles at Mountain Meadow.

THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,
FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,
EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

CosmosDan said:
I hope you now see that by making such a statement about liberation theology he was commenting on a lot more people than just the President. It seems a little strange considering his own denomination is a lot more doctrinally at odds with most Christians than liberation theology. Then he claims his religion is being attacked when someone does,..exactly what he did.

How was his condemning “a lot more people than just the president” in any sense, even close to Bill Press’ implication that the entire Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints is not a Christian entity?

If you got five people who admitted to being influenced by liberation theology, they would very likely describe it in terms that were different from each other. They do comprise a Christian sect in the way that Mormons do that.

Beck saying that Obama’s personal version of Christianity (swayed by liberation theology) is not representative of average Christians, is NOT analogous to suggesting that an established religious sect (with set tenets and doctrines and composed of millions of people) is not a Christian body.

Press did not give Beck tit-for-tat. He gave the entire Mormon Church the finger.

rather– They do NOT comprise a Christian sect in the way that Mormons do that.

The Real Royal King said:
I probably should add that “Mormon presumptiveness” may be overly broad. Much of Mormonism exists in the shadows, and much Mormon history and practice cannot be discussed with we mere “Gentiles”. O’Beckerhead is uncharacteristic of Mormons and somewhat outside Mormon practice in his loud, brassy and brash proclamations of his faith. I am sure the Mormon fathers do not welcome this light upon their history and practices, much as they dislike the recent attention to the Mormon Massacre of the Gentiles at Mountain Meadow.

THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,

I have no doubt that you’re right. Beck does not believe that the Mormon Church is a Christian entity.

FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,
EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

Let me try this again too. ( It’s hard concentrating with a crew of painters in the background.):

I think you are correct, The Real Royal King. Bill Press does not believe that the Mormon church is a Christian entity.

Cecelia said:
How was his condemning “a lot more people than just the president” in any sense, even close to Bill Press’ implication that the entire Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints is not a Christian entity?

Why the dance, Cecelia? That wasn’t Press’ implication that is the teaching of all mainstream Christian churches and has been since Mormonism came along, fairly recently. The Church, or, if you prefer, the churches, is or are very clear: Mormonism is not a Christian denomination, and it is not Christian practice. You can bemoan that if you wish, but I don’t think it fair to attack Press simply for stating conventional Christian wisdom and teaching.

THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,
FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,
EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

Cecelia said:
Let me try this again too. ( It’s hard concentrating with a crew of painters in the background.): I think you are correct, The Real Royal King. Bill Press does not believe that the Mormon church is a Christian entity.

I just had the carpet ripped out of the carpeted areas of the house and tile laid in its place. I’m hoping to alleviate some allergies. I understand the disconcerting racket. I hope your results are as lovely and as santisfactory as mine seem to be. By the way, a bit early to tell, but I stopped taking allergy medicine five (5) days ago, and I feel great.

—

Thanks for the clarification. As I said, Press is simply echoing the Church’s or the churches’ long-standing teaching. He was a bit snarky in his phraseology, however.

THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,
FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,
EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

The Real Royal King said:
Why the dance, Cecelia? That wasn’t Press’ implication that is the teaching of all mainstream Christian churches and has been since Mormonism came along, fairly recently. The Church, or, if you prefer, the churches, is or are very clear: Mormonism is not a Christian denomination, and it is not Christian practice. You can bemoan that if you wish, but I don’t think it fair to attack Press simply for stating conventional Christian wisdom and teaching.

THE INAUGURAL SPEECH – JUST ONE OF BECKERHEAD’S LIES,
FROM LAST SATURDAY’S DIMWIT AND HERETIC RALLY,
EXPOSED TO US ALL, THANKS TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
SOON, WE’LL NEED A SPREAD SHEET FOR AN ACCURATE TALLY.

Well, I don’t know what the Catholic Church teaches about Mormonism, but we Presbyterians consider them to be part of the Body of Christ, though in error in some of their doctrines.

The only protestants I’ve heard saying otherwise are some branches of the Baptists and some charismatic non-denominal types. They all say the same thing of the Catholics.

Thank you for your kind wishes over this business going on at my house. I’m sure things will turn out as satisfactory as they did for you, but right now, since I’m the orderly type, I’m sorta pulling my hair out…

Cecelia said:
I’m sorry but iterating Beck’s argument as contrasted with Press’ is not “talking about doctrine”.

Equating a particular tenet such as liberation theology as being tantamount to an entire Christian sect ( such as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints) is a false comparison.

With your logic, no one could voice any opposition to a Christian doctrine as being outside of and unrecognizable with historical Christian faith, without implying that its adherents (with their entire scope of beliefs) were not Christians.

Suggesting that Americans do not recognize traditional Christianity in liberation theology (or any other particular doctrine) is a bit different from suggesting that an entire sect is outside the parameters of “Christ’s Body” (the Church)

Press didn’t say that a particular doctrine was completely incompatible with Christianity, he implied that the whole of Mormonism is that.

It’s like equating

I listened to the Beck/Wallace interview again for reference. I was incorrect in saying Beck brought it up. He was responding to a direct question from Wallace. My bad.

Cecelia; I think I understand your point now better then I did and it is a valid one. I do see the difference between disagreeing on a point of doctrine and implying that an entire sect are not Christians. That said, in light of the black robe brigade on Saturday, calling liberation theology a perversion and then quoting the Pope calling it demonic rather than divine is essentially claiming it isn’t Christian isn’t it? He did say, I’m not calling it demonic but the Pope did. That’s splitting hairs. It seems odd that when discussing civil rights he talks about a shot at justice for all, and doesn’t seem to understand that liberation theology is all about that. Even the superficial study I did made that obvious. His comments about collective salvation are misinformed at best. What liberation theology focuses on is fulfilling Christ’s instructions to care for the poor and less fortunate. Something most Christians ought to agree on. If you’re not actually out there doing something to help others in need and seeking justice then your Christianity is superficial. Something Christ says over and over. I find it hard to understand how Beck can make one point on Saturday and then so easily overlook it on Sunday.

Cecelia said:
Oops…

To finish my last sentence in my 12:28am post:

It’s like equating the remark “Unlike Pentecostals, I see nothing that is recognizable to historical Christianity in the doctrine of the Rapture”, to the statement, “We don’t need Pentecostals to teach Christians what the Gospels are all about”.

If Beck had put it that mildly I’d agree with your point. Calling it a perversion and then quoting the Pope’s use of “demonic” is essentially claiming it’s not Christian. It’s hard to use those terms and then claim, “but I’m not judging”

sarainitaly said:
Beck has parsed, researched, discussed and analyzed statements and beliefs of the POTUS. He has discussed and investigated statements and stories that don’t jive with facts. He has informed on the foundations of BLT and Obama’s path to his faith. He stated that BLT is a perversion of the gospel.

I don’t see how Beck owes Obama an apology for that.

IMO his research is very poor or his conclusions are made out of his desire to criticize the president. My own cursory study of BLT tells me he’s incorrect. Another poster here correctly pointed out that the comparison to Marxism is a bogus one since Marx denounced a deity entirely. Check out Dave Be’s excellent post on that subject. Beck doesn’t owe Obama an apology for having an opinion. The question was holding one opinion up to an apparent contradiction to his grandiose platitudes of Saturday. People are just noting that contradiction.

Cosmo Dan, well, I see your point that a call to national unity one day is not compatible with dissing the president’s religion the next.

I don’t think it’s illogical though. A call for the nation to seek God, is certainly different as seen by those who, (like the pope) emphasize personal repentance as being the ultimate call from God, from those who feel that the quintessential call of God lies in social action.

However, your argument that Beck would have done well to …not go there….at this particular time is a point well taken.

Especially since it’s difficult to the point of being almost unreasonable of both Beck and Palin to demand that they be separated at the rally from their daily role as political polemicists.

Cecelia said:
rather– They do NOT comprise a Christian sect in the way that Mormons do that.

I think this is splitting hairs with a technical definition rather than looking at the principle involved. Beck referred to a theology embraced by a significant number of people {official sect or not} as a perversion, and selected a quote about it being demonic, and commented {incorrectly} about it being Marxism disguised as religion. If it’s not a religion how can it be Christianity? If it’s demonic, how can it be Christianity? His protests of “I’m not judging” don’t ring sincere in light of his choice of words and the principles he claimed to embrace on Saturday.

I appreciate your thought provoking input even if we disagree. It’s a nice standard to set for these often abused comment threads.

BTW– The Real Royal King, once when we discussed this in the past, I’ had some confusion over the term “cult” from the term “sect”.

I think that’s why you characterized me as “dancing” and it’s understandable.

sarainitaly said:
He stated that BLT is a perversion of the gospel.

Every denomination of Christianity views the other denominations as ‘perversions of the gospel’. They may not use such strong language, but that’s the reason why there are denominations in faith. You will find the same in nearly every faith.

Beck is engaging in the same actions as the people who criticize his faith. And, frankly, he does not have a very good understanding of Black Liberation Theology. He would be more honest if he focused on Wright. Wright’s sermons are just as inflammatory as Pat Robertson’s or John Hagee’s.

CosmosDan said:
I think this is splitting hairs with a technical definition rather than looking at the principle involved. Beck referred to a theology embraced by a significant number of people {official sect or not} as a perversion, and selected a quote about it being demonic, and commented {incorrectly} about it being Marxism disguised as religion. If it’s not a religion how can it be Christianity? If it’s demonic, how can it be Christianity? His protests of “I’m not judging” don’t ring sincere in light of his choice of words and the principles he claimed to embrace on Saturday.

I appreciate your thought provoking input even if we disagree. It’s a nice standard to set for these often abused comment threads.

Beck said it because he believes that the influence of liberal theology is a demonic perversion of historic Christian teaching in the way that someone else might say it about the influence of prosperity theology upon Christianity.

Does that mean that the Pope and Beck are saying that any Christian adherent who has been effected by such teachings is riding the express train to hell, it does not.

Cecelia said:
Cosmo Dan, well, I see your point that a call to national unity one day is not compatible with dissing the president’s religion the next.

I don’t think it’s illogical though. A call for the nation to seek God, is certainly different as seen by those who, (like the pope) emphasize personal repentance as being the ultimate call from God, from those who feel that the quintessential call of God lies in social action.

However, your argument that Beck would have done well to …not go there….at this particular time is a point well taken.

Especially since it’s difficult to the point of being almost unreasonable of both Beck and Palin to demand that they be separated at the rally from their daily role as political polemicists.

Thanks for this. I was a bit slow but I think I now understand your point as well and it is something to be considered. Personally , I’m not sure how anyone can read the words of Christ and not see it as a call to social action. Not that salvation depends on it, but that the call for justice and outreach to the needy is the telling byproduct of the true spirit in our hearts. That was my understanding of Black Liberation theology , taken in it’s historical context of the 60s when so many white Christians did not practice what Christ preached.
Luke 4:18
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,

Stephen Hogan said:
Every denomination of Christianity views the other denominations as ‘perversions of the gospel’. They may not use such strong language, but that’s the reason why there are denominations in faith. You will find the same in nearly every faith.

Beck is engaging in the same actions as the people who criticize his faith. And, frankly, he does not have a very good understanding of Black Liberation Theology. He would be more honest if he focused on Wright. Wright’s sermons are just as inflammatory as Pat Robertson’s or John Hagee’s.

But IMO, no more so. And Hagee was sitting right behind Beck on Saturday.

CosmosDan said:
Thanks for this. I was a bit slow but I think I now understand your point as well and it is something to be considered. Personally , I’m not sure how anyone can read the words of Christ and not see it as a call to social action. Not that salvation depends on it, but that the call for justice and outreach to the needy is the telling byproduct of the true spirit in our hearts. That was my understanding of Black Liberation theology , taken in it’s historical context of the 60s when so many white Christians did not practice what Christ preached.
Luke 4:18
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,

I don’t mean to suggest that feeding the hungry and “setting the captive free” are not commandments of Jesus and the natural outworking of a Christian life. However setting the captive free and the hungry being fed with the Living Water and Living Bread, are spiritual concepts that CANNOT take second place to anything without it being heretical.

Social justice is not the central call of Christianity.

“Glenn Beck gets no fairer a shake than he gets at Mediaite”

Tommy were you refering to “The Blaze” and mistakenly wrote “Mediaite?”

Cecelia said:
Beck said it because he believes that the influence of liberal theology is a demonic perversion of historic Christian teaching in the way that someone else might say it about the influence of prosperity theology upon Christianity.

Does that mean that the Pope and Beck are saying that any Christian adherent who has been effected by such teachings is riding the express train to hell, it does not.

Fair enough, but Press didn’t say that either. Nobody explicitly said, “If you’re not Christian you’re going to hell”

CosmosDan said:
Fair enough, but Press didn’t say that either. Nobody explicitly said, “If you’re not Christian you’re going to hell”

I never charged Press with going so far as to suggest that Mormons were going to hell. I have no idea if Press would judge ANY Christian sect or non-Christian religion in this manner.

great discussion, for once. the attacks on christopher is your usual knee jerk reaction to anything Saint Beck says on this site. but if this site wants to maitain its integrity it ought to call out hypocrisy when its apparent. Beck was on tv bragging about how he got together ppl of all faiths. i have yet to see one imam who was at the rally, nor any other type of religious leader. he wants to paint this picture of unify faiths, but its all a complete joke, see the next day instead of trying to find a common ground with obama (belief in Jesus Christ) he says his religion is a perversion. is a mormon talking about perversion? while people of his faith marry their ten year old daughters? he has nothing to bring to the table but more divisive talking points, under the banner of unity.

the title of the article is almost an apology – tommy might as well say sorry, he copped enough pleas in my observation to fall just short of saying sorry for beck misunderstanding his idea that he’s defeating his rally’s cause by calling obama’s religion a perversion. it was good enuff to get him elected, unlike Romney’s.

Cecelia said:
Social justice is not the central call of Christianity.

It may not be central, but it is most definitely integral.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5),

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs’ is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3)

And the King shall answer and say to them, truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me. (Matthew 25:40)

Cecelia said:
I don’t mean to suggest that feeding the hungry and “setting the captive free” are not commandments of Jesus and the natural outworking of a Christian life. However setting the captive free and the hungry being fed with the Living Water and Living Bread, are spiritual concepts that CANNOT take second place to anything without it being heretical.

Social justice is not the central call of Christianity.

point taken. But social justice should be the natural byproduct of of the spiritual transformation that comes from the living bread and water.
Matt 25:35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
James 2:15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
I think those who might see black liberation theology as stressing social action over inner transformation do not understand it, especially in it’s historical context. What was it that MLK , whom Beck praised so highly on Saturday, stood for and preached?

Cecelia said:
I never charged Press with going so far as to suggest that Mormons were going to hell. I have no idea if Press would judge ANY Christian sect or non-Christian religion in this manner.

That’s correct you didn’t. You did bring it up and I wasn’t sure why.

I’ll add that in contrast to his big rally on Saturday and praising MLK and calling for religious unity, not long ago he told his Christian viewers that if their church preached social justice they should leave the church if their church uses the words “social justice : “economic justice” which were code words. Then held up a communist and Nazi insignia. {Yet Wright was the inflammatory one?}
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/03/08/glenn-beck-urges-listeners-to-leave-churches-that-preach-social/

That’s a pretty dramatic difference from his Saturday message isn’t it?

Tommy:
It is utterly amazing how disingenuous you can be. You say that he gets a fair shake at Mediaite even by his critics like you? That’s nothing but propaganda. At the very beginning you attempted to bully the New Orleans Saints into pulling the donation they gave in support of the SOWF. You continually advanced the notion that the rally would be full of hate & racism. Anybody with an IQ higher than 10 understands the underlying theme of all you have written. The fact that you reported that Ted Nugent wouldn’t be there (whooptie doo) and that Palin wouldn’t receive a speaking fee means nothing. What? You want an “atta boy” for reporting minor facts? That doesn’t change the fact that you were dead wrong in putting forward the notion that Beck is a racist, that the rally would be racist, etc. It’s amazing that you thing people are dumb enough to buy the garbage you’re selling. It’s all there for everyone to see. You want Beck to apologize to Obama? You and the other left-wing media loons who continually said that the rally would a racist political hate-fest owe Beck an apology.

BTW, Tommy, are you disputing the FACT that you constantly put forward the notion that Beck is a racist, that the rally would be political, etc. Please respond, although I know you won’t. You know you spent months attempting to smear Beck & the rally & now you look like a fool because you were DEAD WRONG.

CosmosDan said:
That’s correct you didn’t. You did bring it up and I wasn’t sure why.

Well, if I brought up that possibility, I’d sure like to see where.

Show me.

Cecelia said:
Beck said it because he believes that the influence of liberal theology is a demonic perversion of historic Christian teaching in the way that someone else might say it about the influence of prosperity theology upon Christianity.

Does that mean that the Pope and Beck are saying that any Christian adherent who has been effected by such teachings is riding the express train to hell, it does not.

Here it is. Nobody accused the Beck or the Pope of saying anyone was riding the express train to hell. I wasn’t sure why you mentioned it at all. We were comparing Beck’s comments to those of Press which is why I pointed out Press didn’t do it either. Nobody did it.
I was only saying that Beck’s comments were essentially saying liberation theology was not Christianity.

Stephen Hogan said:
It may not be central, but it is most definitely integral.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5),

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs’ is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3)

And the King shall answer and say to them, truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me. (Matthew 25:40)

Well, no, according to the New Testament, the works of man (and that includes social justice) is only “integral” to salvation if one has first accepted the fact that no atonement can be made to God that is based upon any action other than repentance and the acceptance of Jesus Christ as bearing in His body the atonement for sin for mankind.

There is NOTHING that man can do in his own flesh that will atone for his fallen state. THAT is historical Christianity and the preaching of Jesus Christ on the cross is SECONDARY to NOT ONE THING.

Don’t believe me— google it. Better yet…. read the books of Romans and Hebrews.

Just as prosperity theology contains a kernel of truth about the goodness and provision of God via obedience to the principle of giving, liberation theology contains a kernel of truth about the consequences of following the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Neither SETTLE or atone for man’s fallen state. Only repentance on the basis of Christ’s blood can do that.

That’s real Christianity, folks and Beck is correct in saying so.

CosmosDan, actually Beck thinks that Liberation Theology is a perversion of Christianity. Beck, just like Jesus Christ, has so much concern for the poor.

Oh, right: it’s Glenn Beck’s “Christianity” that is a perversion of Jesus’ teachings. Who does Beck raise money for? Veterans. Did Jesus ever support fighting or supporting the fighters against the Roman Empire? No.

Has Glenn Beck ever used his platform on Fox to raise money for the poor? No. It’s not because Glenn Beck is a Mormon that Beck’s Christianity is a perversion of Jesus’ messages to support and advocate for the poor. It’s because Glenn Beck supports and advocates for the rich that makes Beck’s version of Christianity a perversion of Jesus’ work and message to the human race.

Beck’s “Christianity” is one rife with hypocrisy. To be fair, Beck did say that his flock may have to give up their wealth. I’ll not hold my breath waiting for Beck to give his gold coin collection to the Salvation Army or any poverty fighting organization.

CosmosDan said:
Here it is. Nobody accused the Beck or the Pope of saying anyone was riding the express train to hell. I wasn’t sure why you mentioned it at all. We were comparing Beck’s comments to those of Press which is why I pointed out Press didn’t do it either. Nobody did it.
I was only saying that Beck’s comments were essentially saying liberation theology was not Christianity.

Well good, because liberation theology is certainly not.

Suggesting that the Mormon faith (which believes in Christ’s atoning death on the cross) has nothing to say to mainstream Christianity, is a formulation that is convenient to Press only when there is a Mormon Obama critic by the name of Glenn Beck.

It’s a lie and a ruse perpetrated upon the public by a man who would wax eloquent about “inclusion” were Beck an Islamic cleric.

Press’ objections are not real based upon the dogmas of Press’ own mainstream Christianity. They are merely politically convenient because of Beck’s allegiance to a smaller Christian sect.

Press says that Christians can’t be schooled on the Gospels by Mormons. Press would do well to be schooled by Beck, let alone a Catholic pope…

“His religion”??? Just what sort of Pig God does Beck & his ilk worship??

Beck should become a Muslim. Then the left couldn’t criticize him.

“He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich – both come to poverty”.
Proverbs 22:16

Nachi said:
“His religion”??? Just what sort of Pig God does Beck & his ilk worship??

Oh, my goodness, read the Old Testament and the details of obeying the Old Covenant vs the New covenant and you can see.

Tommy Christopher said:
First, some background.

You’re a liar. Yes, we already know this, Tommy Boy. The point of your article was that Glenn Beck was quoting The Pope on how Barack Obama’s faith is an overt perversion of Christianity and how Marxism in religion is demonic and you just didn’t like that, so you deflected from Beck’s undeniable fact and attacked his own religion instead.

It was a pathetic article, which is par for the course when it comes to your chicken scratchings, Tommy Boy.

writer said:
Beck should become a Muslim. Then the left couldn’t criticize him.

Someone saw Miller Time :-)

Beck, like many others, continues to fog his real issues with talk of religion. His little gathering wasn’t about religion and he’ll answer for his misdeeds. This man is without Integrity. He is a liar and an oppressor. The foundation of his belief system is ‘Himself’. The real issues are ‘Big Money’ and ‘Cheap Labor’. Anything else is the product of the Extreme Right and Extreme Left and their perpetual smoke machines. There is peace in the middle kids.

Tony, I posted it the other day before I saw Miller. Great minds think alike.

Cecelia says: “… Beck is correct in saying so.”

Beck isn’t “correct” about much of anything. If you think he does, you need to do some research about this “recovering” dirtbag (his words just recently), liar, hypocrite and charlatan (my words).

He can’t even give a speech about honor and truth without telling lies, small and whoppers.

BobbysJury said:
His little gathering wasn’t about religion and he’ll answer for his misdeeds.

It undeniably was about religion and that pisses off far left kooks such as yourself. Glenn Beck worships God instead of government, which is inconceivable for people like you.

But by all means, keep deluding yourself. It’s funny :-)

Tony, it’s not inconceivable that Beck worships God, but you’re deluded if you think ANYONE worships government.

Beck’s God and country rally could have been a good thing for the country if Beck hadn’t lied THREE TIMES after saying, “Our sacred honor. It means that you tell the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.” Beck took a massive dump on honor last Saturday.

Rationalize that one wizard: http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/08/during-his-speech-to-restore-honor-beck.html

Tony, You know nothing of my personal relationship with God. Peace be with your soul.

Cecelia said:

That’s real Christianity, folks and Beck is correct in saying so.

So evidently it is a doctrinal discussion. I wonder if Beck felt that way Saturday when he invited non Christians ro share in the unity.

There are different ways of interpreting the Bible and you’re allowed to have yours. I haven’t seen any evidence that BLT does not believe in the atonement of Christ have you? I only said that their beliefs about our actions are in line with the teachings of Jesus. If we are to take Beck’s grand gesture of Saturday seriously it’s not about that the details of doctrine anyway. Surely the Jews and Muslims he professed to have don’t embrace Christ as Savior.

BobbysJury said:
Tony, You know nothing of my personal relationship with God. Peace be with your soul.

No, I don’t know of your personal relationship with your god. But I don’t really care if my soul is at piece with your Marxist god. Thanks for thinking of me though, but your values are worthless to me.

CosmosDan says: “Surely the Jews and Muslims he professed to have don’t embrace Christ as Savior.”

Right, so long as they get down on their knees and pray. Everyone knows that Jesus taught that prayer sitting or standing is just a waste of words. I think it says so in the Book of Beck, verse 9:11.

CosmosDan said:
There are different ways of interpreting the Bible and you’re allowed to have yours. I haven’t seen any evidence that BLT does not believe in the atonement of Christ have you? I only said that their beliefs about our actions are in line with the teachings of Jesus.

It’s quite obvious that Black Liberation Theology is an overt perversion of Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with believing in that perversion of Christianity, but there is something wrong with calling it a Christian religion because that’s false.

And your last sentence that I quote is a complete lie. Black Liberation Theology teaches that there are oppressors and victims and that oppressors must endless give pence in the form of explicit deeds in order for everyone collectively to be saved. Jesus Christ taught no such thing. Jesus teaches that you’re saved by grace, not by deeds. Despite what the Christian perversion of BLT teaches, Jesus does not keep a score card of how many deeds you done for your victims.

Cecelia said:
That’s real Christianity

Statements similar to this have started wars, split churches and led to the execution of innocent ‘heretics’.

Cecelia said:
Just as prosperity theology contains a kernel of truth about the goodness and provision of God via obedience to the principle of giving, liberation theology contains a kernel of truth about the consequences of following the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Black Liberation Theology does indeed believe in the atonement of Christ.

Cecelia said:
There is NOTHING that man can do in his own flesh that will atone for his fallen state. THAT is historical Christianity and the preaching of Jesus Christ on the cross is SECONDARY to NOT ONE THING.

Don’t believe me— google it. Better yet…. read the books of Romans and Hebrews.

Then what say you about Vatican II?

Cecelia said:
Well good, because liberation theology is certainly not.

It most certainly is Christian. I don’t think that you are in a position to determine what is and isn’t ‘real’ Christianity.

Cecelia said:
Well good, because liberation theology is certainly not.

Suggesting that the Mormon faith (which believes in Christ’s atoning death on the cross) has nothing to say to mainstream Christianity, is a formulation that is convenient to Press only when there is a Mormon Obama critic by the name of Glenn Beck.

It’s a lie and a ruse perpetrated upon the public by a man who would wax eloquent about “inclusion” were Beck an Islamic cleric.

Press’ objections are not real based upon the dogmas of Press’ own mainstream Christianity. They are merely politically convenient because of Beck’s allegiance to a smaller Christian sect.

Press says that Christians can’t be schooled on the Gospels by Mormons. Press would do well to be schooled by Beck, let alone a Catholic pope…

So now liberation theology isn’t Christian? Isn’t that exactly what you claimed Beck wasn’t saying just a few posts ago?
It was Beck’s glaring contradiction on Sunday to the principles and platitudes he espoused on Saturday that brought about the criticism. One day it isn’t about doctrine, and the next day it is, when that makes it convenient to criticize the president.

Beck can believe whatever he wants and I have no problem with it. I think a persons character and actions reveals the truth about what spirit they carry inside, regardless of what doctrine, religious label or not, they claim. I’m not defending Press or his comments about a Mormon, or Mormon’s in general. I’m only pointing out that his actions were no different than Becks and Becks were a glaring contradiction of the principles he touted only a day before. For him to describe BLT as a perversion for it’s interest in social justice, while also praising MLK and his work, doesn’t lend him much credibility in my book.

Tony Westover said:
Black Liberation Theology teaches that there are oppressors and victims and that oppressors must endless give pence in the form of explicit deeds in order for everyone collectively to be saved.

What an over-simplified description…

Tony Westover said:
It’s quite obvious that Black Liberation Theology is an overt perversion of Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with believing in that perversion of Christianity, but there is something wrong with calling it a Christian religion because that’s false.

And your last sentence that I quote is a complete lie. Black Liberation Theology teaches that there are oppressors and victims and that oppressors must endless give pence in the form of explicit deeds in order for everyone collectively to be saved. Jesus Christ taught no such thing. Jesus teaches that you’re saved by grace, not by deeds. Despite what the Christian perversion of BLT teaches, Jesus does not keep a score card of how many deeds you done for your victims.

You’ll have to back up your claims about BLT with evidence before I give them any serious consideration. I did my research and that ‘s not how it appeared to me. You, Beck and Cecelia can have your opinions about what is or isn’t real Christianity but ultimately, believers think there is only one real judge right?
The subject here is the glaring contradiction of principles shown by Beck from Saturday to Sunday.

CosmosDan said:
For him to describe BLT as a perversion for it’s interest in social justice, while also praising MLK and his work, doesn’t lend him much credibility in my book.

Agreed. In the same instance, why would Beck not attack the Catholic church or Methodism if his issue is with social justice?

Stephen Hogan said:
Tony Westover said:
Black Liberation Theology teaches that there are oppressors and victims and that oppressors must endless give pence in the form of explicit deeds in order for everyone collectively to be saved.

What an over-simplified description…

Yes, so “over-simplified” that it’s exactly what it’s all about.

What really cracks me up about people who futilely try to call Black Liberation Theology is that it EXPLICITLY creates a class system and we’re supposed to believe that it’s not a form of Marxist social justice? *LOL* Get outta here with that noise!

CosmosDan said:
You’ll have to back up your claims about BLT with evidence before I give them any serious consideration.

That Black Liberation Theology isn’t a Christian religion? Only the Pope said exactly that. If you can’t handle that, that’s your hang up, not mine.

Again, you can be a BLT if you want. But you’re not a Christian if you are. Jews aren’t Christians and they’re perfectly content with that. Why try to characterize yourself as a lie?

CosmosDan said:
I did my research and that ’s not how it appeared to me.

Try harder next time. It’s not that hard find. If you’ve never heard of it before, may I suggest Google?

Tony Westover said:
Yes, so “over-simplified” that it’s exactly what it’s all about.

What really cracks me up about people who futilely try to call Black Liberation Theology is that it EXPLICITLY creates a class system and we’re supposed to believe that it’s not a form of Marxist social justice? *LOL* Get outta here with that noise!

BLT does not ‘explicitly’ create anything. Maybe you should actually read some Cornell West or James Cone.

Tony Westover said:
But you’re not a Christian if you are.

Neither you nor the Pope are in a position to dictate who and who isn’t Christian. BLT believes atonement through Christ. They see Christ as Lord and Savior. To me, that is Christianity.

Stephen Hogan said:
Maybe you should actually read some Cornell West or James Cone.

I’d suggest the same to you. Then maybe you’d know what the hell you’re talking about — especially since James Cone uses the oppressor/oppressed paradigm.

Get a clue. Charlatans like James Cone are such kooks that he believes that Jesus is black specifically because blacks are oppressed by white.

Stephen Hogan said:
Neither you nor the Pope are in a position to dictate who and who isn’t Christian.

Um, no. The Pope is definitely in a position to dictate who is and who isn’t Christian. And he’s clearly said that Black Liberation Theology is a perversion.

Stephen Hogan said:
BLT believes atonement through Christ.

BLT believes that Christ was a victim. Specifically, it believes that white people (or “whites”, which is frequent in the literature) atone to Christ by endlessly giving penance to black people.

Tony Westover said:
I’d suggest the same to you. Then maybe you’d know what the hell you’re talking about — especially since James Cone uses the oppressor/oppressed paradigm.

I have and I actually know quite a bit about Black Liberation Theology. I’ve been fascinated with it for some time. Yes, Cone developed the oppressor/oppressed paradigm. What is your point? Atonement through Christ is still paramount.

Tony Westover said:
Get a clue. Charlatans like James Cone are such kooks that he believes that Jesus is black specifically because blacks are oppressed by white.

No, Cone believed that Jesus was black because he believed God is whatever color God needs to be in order to spread His Word. BLT is a black church, so they worship a black Jesus. Asian churches worship an Asian Jesus. And, at any rate, there’s pretty much no way in hell that Jesus was white. He was a Middle-Eastern jew.

Tony Westover said:
Um, no. The Pope is definitely in a position to dictate who is and who isn’t Christian. And he’s clearly said that Black Liberation Theology is a perversion.

Sorry. He most certainly is not. I am a Christian and the Pope most certainly does not speak for me or my faith. The Pope is not the ‘know-all-be-all’ of Christianity. He hasn’t been since the Great Schism. This sanctimonious attitude about the authority of the Pope and the Church caused that and the Protestant Reformation

Tony Westover said:

BLT believes that Christ was a victim. Specifically, it believes that white people (or “whites”, which is frequent in the literature) atone to Christ by endlessly giving penance to black people.

No. BLT sees Christ as Liberator, that he values justice over victimization and, thus, sides with the oppressed. Christ is not seen as a victim.

Tony Westover said:
That Black Liberation Theology isn’t a Christian religion? Only the Pope said exactly that. If you can’t handle that, that’s your hang up, not mine.

Again, you can be a BLT if you want. But you’re not a Christian if you are. Jews aren’t Christians and they’re perfectly content with that. Why try to characterize yourself as a lie?

Try harder next time. It’s not that hard find. If you’ve never heard of it before, may I suggest Google?

Lots of rhetoric but not one fact to back up your claim.
Jews don’t believe Jesus was savior . BLT does. Only Catholicism presents the Pope as infallible, and I doubt most Catholics believe that anymore. Certainly millions of protestants do not since he would probably claim they are not Christians either. All Protestants are offshoots of people breaking off from the Catholic church. That’s what liberation theology is as well.

As I said, you have your opinion and words but so far, nothing to back it up with. I’ll take my research over that thanks.

“It’s called discernment.” That’s true. I’m glad Beck is talking about discernment because maybe his listeners will figure out to discern when Beck is lying and when Beck is not. That requires skepticism about what is said, and everyone should be skeptical of everything Beck says because I’ve discerned that Beck lies. A lot.

When Beck put the words “honest questioning” in Thomas Jefferson’s mouth (or pen actually) I was shocked. I could not believe that Jefferson would write such a stupid thing. So Monday I Googled Jefferson’s letter to his nephew and read it twice. “Honest questioning” isn’t in that letter. So I Googled Jefferson, honest questioning and found out that Beck changed the quote in his book, The Real America; and he’s been using it ever since.

That was the first of three deceptions Beck used in his speech Saturday. MSNBC and Mother Jones discerned the other two. http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/08/during-his-speech-to-restore-honor-beck.html

It takes a skeptic to discern; Beck’s flock aren’t there yet, and I doubt if they will ever catch on to his deceptions.

Tony Westover said:
I’d suggest the same to you. Then maybe you’d know what the hell you’re talking about — especially since James Cone uses the oppressor/oppressed paradigm.

Get a clue. Charlatans like James Cone are such kooks that he believes that Jesus is black specifically because blacks are oppressed by white.

Well he’s certainly no prophet like Joseph Smith was. I’m not sure the Pope goes along with Joe though.
You may have missed this before but here are the words of Jesus from Luke 4:18
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,

BLT arrived at their beliefs through an interpretation of the teachings of their savior Jesus Christ.

I get what you’re saying but you have to explain Obama’s faith so people can understand where he’s coming from. A lot of what Obama does makes sense in the context of his religious faith. He spent 20 years in a church that preaches Liberation theology. It’s a historical fact that Liberation theology is rooted in Marxism. Marxism is not compatible with Christianity. We wouldn’t have to keep talking about this stuff if the media would have done their job before the election. They chose to investigate Palin (and continue to investigate her) instead of Obama. The American people have a right to know what the president’s belief system is.

Incidentally, I’m not convinced that Beck is really a Mormon. I think he goes to the Mormon church because as an ex-addict he likes the way encourage members to treat their bodies with respect (They don’t drink coffee, etc.) Mormons are also incredibly charitable. I think he just appreciates their system.

The fact of the matter is that Beck attends the Mormon church but he talks like an evangelical Christian. He speaks the way people at my church speak. He doesn’t sound like any Mormon I’ve ever heard.

It seems far fetched to me that Beck would buy into “The Book of Mormon” part of Mormonism. It’s too ridiculous to be taken seriously. Beck is such a logical person I just don’t see him believing that stuff.

It wouldn’t surprise me if somewhere down the road he left the Mormon church and became a born-again Christian.

We would certainly welcome him.

Chris Jones said:
It’s a historical fact that Liberation theology is rooted in Marxism. Marxism is not compatible with Christianity.

That is not historical fact. That is speculative criticism. A historical fact would be that BLT is rooted in the oppression and slavery of black people.

Bob Cesca: ” Beck isn’t a healer or an evangelist or a serious political thinker. He’s a matchstick man. A huckster. To regard him as anything more — to insist that his events are more historic than a rock concert in the park or that his TV and radio shows are more nationally significant than a late night preacher or a morning zoo deejay — is a dangerous mistake.”

“Victimology” is Beck’s specialty. It is a them that appeals to his audience and underlies his philosophy/paranoia.

“Victimology” is Beck’s specialty. It is a theme that appeals to his audience and underlies his philosophy/paranoia. Spell checkers untie!

Quote:
Incidentally, I’m not convinced that Beck is really a Mormon. I think he goes to the Mormon church because as an ex-addict he likes the way encourage members to treat their bodies with respect (They don’t drink coffee, etc.) Mormons are also incredibly charitable. I think he just appreciates their system.

The fact of the matter is that Beck attends the Mormon church but he talks like an evangelical Christian. He speaks the way people at my church speak. He doesn’t sound like any Mormon I’ve ever heard.

“WISHFUL THINKING.”
He cried when his “Prophet” died.
I doubt Beck worships anyone he can’t see in the mirror.

Chris Jones said:
I get what you’re saying but you have to explain Obama’s faith so people can understand where he’s coming from. A lot of what Obama does makes sense in the context of his religious faith. He spent 20 years in a church that preaches Liberation theology. It’s a historical fact that Liberation theology is rooted in Marxism. Marxism is not compatible with Christianity. We wouldn’t have to keep talking about this stuff if the media would have done their job before the election. They chose to investigate Palin (and continue to investigate her) instead of Obama. The American people have a right to know what the president’s belief system is.

It was already pointed out that you’re incorrect about BLT being rooted in Marxism. It’s flawed logic to associate anything that mentions a class system with Marxism. To quote Dave Be’s earlier post in this thread
“Marxism doesn’t have a copyright on the idea of class struggles. Class struggles have existed throughout history in all civilizations, and equating anyone who talks about them to Marxists is a transparent appeal to spite.”
I’m not sure why the details of Obama’s faith are any more important than any other President we’ve had. He professed what he needed to during the campaign and answered questions. People like Beck are purposely distorting BLT in order to discredit Obama, Can’t we just judge him by his own words and actions rather than trying amateur mind reading.

Stephen Hogan said:
That is not historical fact. That is speculative criticism. A historical fact would be that BLT is rooted in the oppression and slavery of black people.

I like your style Steve.

Chris Jones said:
Incidentally, I’m not convinced that Beck is really a Mormon. I think he goes to the Mormon church because as an ex-addict he likes the way encourage members to treat their bodies with respect (They don’t drink coffee, etc.) Mormons are also incredibly charitable. I think he just appreciates their system.

The fact of the matter is that Beck attends the Mormon church but he talks like an evangelical Christian. He speaks the way people at my church speak. He doesn’t sound like any Mormon I’ve ever heard.

It seems far fetched to me that Beck would buy into “The Book of Mormon” part of Mormonism. It’s too ridiculous to be taken seriously. Beck is such a logical person I just don’t see him believing that stuff.

It wouldn’t surprise me if somewhere down the road he left the Mormon church and became a born-again Christian.

We would certainly welcome him.

With all due respect Chris this is exactly what these two articles have been about. You refer to the Book of Mormon as ridiculous. I assume you believe the Koran isn’t scripture either. Yet you believe the Bible is God’s word with no more evidence than Mormon’s or Muslim’s have about those books. Their faith based beliefs are no more , or no less, ridiculous than yours. That’s the point of calling out Beck , as a Mormon, calling a different theology a perversion, or demonic.
We’re free to worship as we see fit and according to our conscience , not harming others. The beautiful thing about America is that when you claim that right for yourself, it creates some moral obligation for you to honor that same right for others.
Beck can have his opinion, but the glaring contrast is the principles he proclaimed on Saturday, compared to his words on Sunday.

CosmosDan says: “I’m not sure why the details of Obama’s faith are any more important than any other President we’ve had.”

It’s not, Dan. It’s Beck’s mission to divide his gullible flock from this Administration any way he can in order to sow fear.

AT that Beck is a master.

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CosmosDan said:
I like your style Steve.

Thanks, Cosmos. I like your’s, as well.

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corvin81 said:
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Author of how to cook salmon

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In this clip from today’s show, Beck never gets around to saying which part of the article he finds despicable…

Probably the author.

“Mistakenly” accuses? Everything except overt remarks. Nice job of skirting the issue MediaLite.

Now, as for “Romney was a candidate who was unfairly persecuted for his religion” (02/08/2008), you are looking at a TRUE statement. (And NO, HELL NO, I am NOT a Mormon.) But I have eyes and ears and the smarmy comments by the left wing underlings (no elected official would DARE come out and say anything negative about the LDS) were so blatantly obvious that Stevie Wonder could have seen it and Beethoven could have heard it.

Nachi said:
“His religion”??? Just what sort of Pig God does Beck & his ilk worship??

If it’s a “pig god” it MUST be your mother. But, I think it’s the same one that all Jews and Christians worship.

Beck lives in a glass house and should not throw religious stones:
http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/09/glenn-beck-admits-ignorance-of-obamas.html

Lets get this straight, Beck questions Obamas religious background, yet with all his own hate, lies, and made up bagger crazy crap, his faith can’t be questioned? That sounds about right! Long live Beck!

Turned around ballcap? gimme a break!

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