God bless America that Herman Cain will never, ever be the president.

i will say i will not vote for this man…….that was a tasteless campaign ad

This is one of those, “You did what?”
I like Cain, but this was so bad, on so many levels.

ps) If only Obama would have done it!

Why is it a big deal?  If you are indifferent you’re repulsed?  Really?  or is indifferent the same as being against him?  were you equally as repulshed when a journolist from msnbc recorded his own song about 9/11?

A positive, patriotic song sung during a tragic event — one that features the destruction and demise of the U.S. — is beyond being an oxymoron. It’s idiotic. And the Munster Cain should be ashamed. It subconsciously appears as though he’s cheering the deaths of thousands. Time to fire those campaign advisers – they’re not thinking with their whole brain!

I get it the Republicans are just really good trolls and they are laughing at the sane Americans who aren’t in on the joke. Also would explain Mediaite becoming FoxNation.com Jr. the past couple of weeks and all the new writers they obviously hired from World Nut Daily like this joker who wrote this piece.

I don’t know why this ad is that bad. I don’t think of it as an ad. I merely think of it as an homage. Not something I would’ve done as a campaign, but I don’t see the problem.

You are a sick fuck.

You are a sick fuck.

Herman Cain will never forget 9-11 and Rick Perry hates cancer. 

You’re outraged about this?  Are you outraged about this?:

“It begins: Egyptian mob breaks into Israeli embassy in Cairo”

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/09/it-begins-egyptian-mob-breaks-into-israeli-embassy-in-cairo/

Talk about having messed up priorities.

Thank you.

You fucking Obama-gargling left-wing fruitcakes can eat shit!

Can’t. You’ve gorged it all.

you do realize cjd is a conservative right?

lol….i am what most here think center-right……but tasteless is tasteless, if you are to blind to see that go join gordon bloyer in the hate warehouse

its cool…..some people just hate……i rarely agree with you nationman, but i dont hate

I think his intent was good. I watched the video and I thought of it as more of an homage than a campaign ad. I wouldn’t vote for Cain for other reasons, but honestly…how is this not worse than someone having his book co-written by a terrorist?

WOW!

And HE, HE is the A-HOLE the teabaggeds were praising not long ago.

You sure know how to pick your representatives, teabag MORONS.

I’ll concede it was lame, but I think his intentions were good. He’s a passionate individual; just the type to make a video like this and be totally serious. That said, I think it could have been improved with the lyrics at the bottom of the screen and a little Cain head bouncing across them as he sang.

Whoa dude.

He also said that to someone else.

He rarely adds anything to this site. I think he just swears a lot.

I’ve been trying to decide whether or not I was going to vote for Obama again. This beautiful tribute has convinced me that if Herman gets the nomination, he has my vote. Was a fitting and heart felt memorial.

Not really repulsed by this video, but if I came up with a Youtube video of 9/11 footage to “God Bless America” I think a lot of people would think that I’m mocking America, 9/11, and the song.

“The internet.”

Great supportive evidence you gave us there, Phillip Bump.

FoxNation jr?  You really don’t know what’s going on around here, do you?

The thought of dear leader singing a song such as God Bless America is a non issue- he’d never do it, at least not without either choking on the words or forgetting the lines- so what’s your point to this story?  I thought it was beautifully done-

Why, are you racist too?

Can’t watch it.  Taught children that day.  Had to explain it the best I could.  God Damn it all.  That day was hell.

are you capable of coming up with a comeback or is that sentence the limit of your ability?

The US is destroyed and Herman Cain is cheering the deaths of thousands?  And they say intellectualism on the left isn’t dead.  Rather, it’s a tribute – a form of respect – from a guy who isn’t going to be president (and moreover, knows it himself) to those who were lost and those who survived.  And you’d begrudge him his respect and call it cheering.

Besides, since in your eyes the US is already demised, why do you care?

You’re weird.  And not too nice.

an homage to people being murdered?   that sick video didn’t honor anyone.. it was much more exploitive  
if anything else… poor form and poor taste .. very unbecoming… if i was gonna honor these mothers fathers children and heroes .. i wouldn’t show them in their last horrific moments on earth.. 

So then you are also just as angry that Obama hung out with a terrorist prior to his Presidency and also that he went to the church of a pastor that said that he hated America?

And please, capitalize where appropriate. Sheesh.

Since we know Herman loves america we take it in the spirit he sang it.   He expressed his heartfelt wish that god would bless America.    If Barack Obama sang it there would be that element of “your trying too hard” with the underlying feeling that deep in the recesses of his mind he was truly thinking of the words of Reverend Wright  ”God D**n America”

 I guess to me it’s a lot like doing Hava Nagila to this video:

http://vimeo.com/277047

But to each their own.

how can you be racist against a stupid person?

Americanbornincanada is a coward with no balls.

Actually you’re right- I have no balls.  I’m glad for that, since I’m a woman.  However, to address your first point, I was being sarcastic, as people who can’t stand dear leader’s policies are deemed to be racist by those who love him.

Honestly, I don’t even know what that means in context. That’s either sarcasm or the chatterings of a blithering idiot. If it’s the former, sorry. If it’s the latter, insert shoehorn in anus, remove head.

Honestly, I don’t even know what that means in context. That’s either sarcasm or the chatterings of a blithering idiot. If it’s the former, sorry. If it’s the latter, insert shoehorn in anus, remove head.

Herman Cain is using 9/11 for personal partisan gain.  9/11 was neither a Democratic or Republican tragedy. It was an American and a world tragedy (foreign nationals died inside the towers as well). This video is not by Cain the man. It is by Cain the politician. Disgusting!

. 

Can’t you pick a less partisan news source?

I’ll give you that it’s not a big deal to someone who thinks ‘repulshed’ and ‘journolist’ are real words.

It wasn’t about honoring them, it was about Cain getting votes.

“Dear Leader’s” policies are the same as Bush’s policies. We now recognize that the “hatred” of “Dear Leader’s” policies is actually the hatred of his skin color. Thats no leap of logic! This man could cure cancer and you would still hate him! 

I didn’t vote for obama and Im no democrat party affiliate.  I do, however, recognize the visceral hatred of this man from my own party. I don’t hate him, I support my nation no matter who is president! when Bush stabbed us in the back with more free trade, I supported my country, when Bush nominated the closet lib Harriet Miers, I supported my country, when Bush decided he wanted to bankrupt the US by bleeding us dry with two wars against countries that never attacked us, I supported my country. You don’t support your president and you believe that he is ruining a country you immigrated to. How so? You’re still here. We should deport you. Real Americans need jobs! you can’t even say what is wrong with obama’s policies without spouting “fox consumer” talking points.

Remember this: Conservatism is NOT hatred. and if indeed you were born in canada, why do YOU have an opinion? keep silent. don’t comment, keep your opinions to yourself or go back to your own country and fix the problems there before you comment on ours!

AMERICA FIRST! LAST! AND ALWAYS!

All the Leftists who are freaking out over this video…how did you react to this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnlRrxXv-v8

We all know how you embraced that video and it’s anti-American 911 message…so GFY’s

Ron Paul essentially predicted 9/11;

Here’s Ron Paul from 1997 to 1999 warning us repeatedly;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6hxE3mPgtM

Ron Paul is against our foreign policy because it’s expensive, immoral and dangerous. 

9/11 and other events are responses to our actions over-seas.

If you think our foreign policy is “worth it” then tell it to those who died on 9/11.

I used to think like a pro-war neoconservative.  I now agree with Ron on this.

After years of intervention in the middle east, what do we have?  Chaos.

This is not to say we should not fight terror – we should.  

But we need to reorganize our foreign policy to be more peaceful and then one day.. 

One day that war may be over.  Until then it’s just an unsustainable game of whack a mole.

Look at how they got New York, spending millions jumping around looking for a vehicle with a bomb in it.

If they came here to “destroy our freedoms” then, “mission accomplished”.

Wow !  So much hate for an American paying tribute to fallen Americans . 
 

No Philip you are not indifferent, you are a full blown left wing bigot that is too far gone to know it….or quite possibly just full of sh*t.

Want proof? 

Your headline would read ” SOME ON INTERNET DON’T LIKE “, not the left wing bomb thrower headline you’ve profered. 

Then you write only those who personally ” like ” Cain ” alot ” could feel  it’s a perfectly fine expression of a man’s feelings about an American tragedy.

While those ( you and the other left wing zealots ) who in cowardly fashion claim to be ” indifferent ” find it to be the worst video commemorating anything ever.

Just for fun I’ll throw it back to you………what if this WERE President Obama singing? Could you honestly state you would have presented your article  in the same way……..or at all even.

No Philip you are not indifferent, you are a full blown left wing bigot that is too far gone to know it….or quite possibly just full of sh*t.

Want proof? 

Your headline would read ” SOME ON INTERNET DON’T LIKE “, not the left wing bomb thrower headline you’ve profered. 

Then you write only those who personally ” like ” Cain ” alot ” could feel  it’s a perfectly fine expression of a man’s feelings about an American tragedy.

While those ( you and the other left wing zealots ) who in cowardly fashion claim to be ” indifferent ” find it to be the worst video commemorating anything ever.

Just for fun I’ll throw it back to you………what if this WERE President Obama singing? Could you honestly state you would have presented your article  in the same way……..or at all even.

herman cain you are a discrace to the lives lost in this sinceless attack.how can you as a suposed american mock the country in theese trying times we all live in?if you dont like this country get the hell out.we do not need any more of your parties negitivity and hatered your party has showen nothing but disrespect for the american people as well as for our president of theese united states of america.it is very discusting that you and your party an fox so called news always disrespects the middle class and the poor of this great country .but none of you can give one instance where giving tax breakes to the wealthy actually work at all in fact there are studies  showing that it does not work .it only lines your parties pocketts and lets the rich get richer while everyone elese just struggles to survive.now thats very unamerican.

herman cain you are a discrace to the lives lost in this sinceless attack.how can you as a suposed american mock the country in theese trying times we all live in?if you dont like this country get the hell out.we do not need any more of your parties negitivity and hatered your party has showen nothing but disrespect for the american people as well as for our president of theese united states of america.it is very discusting that you and your party an fox so called news always disrespects the middle class and the poor of this great country .but none of you can give one instance where giving tax breakes to the wealthy actually work at all in fact there are studies  showing that it does not work .it only lines your parties pocketts and lets the rich get richer while everyone elese just struggles to survive.now thats very unamerican.

Wow. Sanctimony to the nth degree coupled with a deep creepiness. Cain is . . . odd. 

“Internet Repulsed By Herman Cain’s ”

Well thanks for telling everyone how they feel. 

Completely inappropriate response.
From where does all the anger come? You might need some help.

Completely inappropriate response.
From where does all the anger come? You might need some help.

WOW – massive use of foul language in this thread….Hey moderators, since when is it OK to call other posters “sick fuck” on this board?  I know you ban folks for a lot less than that (at least I know you ban conservative commentators for calling out your staff for this biases, but you allow the lefties on board to throw around the “fuck” this and “fucking” that terminology?)

Come on; clean up the board please.

And just how do we “know” the Mr. Cain loves America?
Also, the word is “you’re” not “your”. “Your” is the possesive, as in “Your head is up your ass.”
“You’re” is a contraction of the words “you” and “are”, as in “You’re probably a bigot.”

http://youtu.be/bV-oI__bHA4
Watch more, don’t take things out of context.
I’m not a fan of Rev. Wright, but he’s not wrong.

http://youtu.be/bV-oI__bHA4
Watch more, don’t take things out of context.
I’m not a fan of Rev. Wright, but he’s not wrong.

I knew it already but this just confirms that Uncle Ruckus has absolutely no class.

as you can see, omar loves freedom of speech

except when he needs to post his real name besides his comments

and

except when a person has opinions he disagrees with

LOLZ

but WcINwi IS too afraid to provide any proof that he hung out with a terrorist.

WCinWI,  are you a cowardly conservative or a strong conservative? i guess you’re just a coward. bawk bawk bawkawk!

why are you a coward?

I think his intent was good, but I would have left off the Campaign plug at the end. Mixing the two makes it inappropriate. If he just did it as a tribute, it is no different than all the other vids by singers paying tribute to 9/11, like Joe Sco, and others. But…with the Cain for Pres plug – not the best idea.  No reason to be repulsed, though. He no doubt was affected deeply by the tragedy, as were most Americans, and this was his way to pay tribute. He seems like a good man.

If these morons had just cut out the 1st minute of the video, and extended the 2nd minute it wouldn’t have been tasteless.

yea, i agree. would have been much better.

We know he loves america from his actions and words.  In similar fashion we know Obama dislikes America from his actions and words.  Remember his refusal to wear a flag pin and him being the only democrat candidate for president to not put his hand over his heart during the pledge?

If Obama did this, I wouldn’t believe him since he doesn’t like the USA. Herman likes the USA, so I don’t mind him doing this.

Sharpo is an asshole with no Brain!

love the video and from what i can see from all the social networks, people are very touched by it.  what’s repulsive is mediaite claiming people are repulse when they are not.  besides, what is repulsive about seeing 911 play out as it did and the song really captured the patriotism and somber emotion that we all possess on that day.

Not that I want to interrupt your tiraid, but unless you/I/we/they descend from Native Americans, ie; Cherokee, Sioux etc, etc.  you/I/we/they, “Real Americans” descend from immigrant stock.  

You/I/we/they, may have been born on American soil, but our first ancestors, were born elsewhere.  

Which in turn makes your outrage at AmericanborninCanada’s daring to have an opinion on anything to do with America, because his/her birthplace was elsewhere, quite silly.

I liked this song a lot after 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f39Zs0gB87c

Didn’t end on a positive note, otherwise okay. 

I love how all of you change the subject when someone calls your cards! you know I’m right. and I’m sure you hate that! 

you hate obama because his skin is darker than yours, none of you would vote for cain and you would rationalize it by saying: “he can’t win a general election”, I hope that makes you sleep better, bigot!

And Jayson, you can stow that argument because I will blast you with it!

The only silly thing is that Republicans have replaced “Conservatism” with “fox consumer” talking points and hatred.

lots of luck with that!

where’s the birthcertificate?

You watch way too much Fox News.

People who watch Fox News regularly are the least educated people in society.

Why is everyone so angry about this? This video may be exhibiting that maybe because God has been shunned by Americans He has taken His veil of protection away and this is the consequence.  If you read the bible god gives us detailed instructions on how to be sure He blesses us.  Follow His commandments, which includes obeying your parents etc.. Many Americans have become very cocky and seem to feel they don’t need God anymore.  Maybe it is because they have money, power, and life has become to darn enjoyable to include God.  Yes, I’m being a bit sarcastic, but this is painfully true.  For those who don’t believe in God they can not understand this, but for those who really do want to serve God they know what I’m talking about.  Hermain Caine seems sad in this video and may be asking God to replace His veil of protection over America, but this can’t be done until most Americans realize they need God again.

My theory on display, conservatism appeals to blacks only on the most visceral of feelings, hate of the “other”, being adept at classifying groups as the “other”. Cain is a renowned anti-muslim xenophobe and this one here threatening deportation of a naturalized citizen on account she exercised her constitution-given & the most basic of human rights, freedom of speech

For one thing mr. bigoted ignoramus, a naturalized citizen cannot be deported and is afforded the same rights a naturally-born citizen is afforded. Except running for president. Which judging by your simplistic writings, you too would apparently be disqualified from. So you have nothing on her or anyone else to demand ‘silence’ from

No those of us who don’t believe, don’t because the bible, and all the rest are painfully full of shit. 

Republicans are so full of shit. The love and deep embrace of absolute kitsch is hilarious. Don’t you people see he is using 911 for political gain, you rubes just swallow it up like its medicine. You deserve your leaders. 

Damn……..after going through all the bullshit comments from both sides in this thread, wish the fuck he would have sang Rama Lama Ding Dong!
 
Christ!
 
Herman, don’t mind these freaks – you the man!

This is truly disgusting. Herman’s Cain’s “Daisy Girl” ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExjDzDsgbww

Your claim that “the president doesn’t like the USA” is just so bogus and full of bull pucky it barely merits any response. The president has always loved this country, even when his country hasn’t always been so nice to him and so many others with dark skin. No one would put themselves or their families through the hell that has become our politics if they didn’t love this country. You should stop lying. 

No matter how you feel about it, it makes no logical sense. Are you supposed to vote for Herman Cain because 9/11 was bad? Why?

You are spreading a bogus lie. The president didn’t “refuse” to wear a flag pin and he has demonstrated his love of this country even when the right spreads lies and untruths about him. Some idiot makes up a lie on the Internet and the sheeple spread it like jam.

I think you might be schizophrenic.

Herman Cain is stupid? How many successful companies have you run? How many Federal Reserve Banks have you been Chairman of?

Can you click links in agrregators you don’t like?

You don’t try to fundamentally transform that which you fundamentally adore.  Also, I should think he who was elected president of the country ought to be past using skin color as an excuse for those hellish things that prevented him from succeeding (Here’s a hint where I’m going with this.  He’s president of the freakin’ country).  Why don’t you?  Politicians don’t serve out of love, anyway, though they may have it.  And they don’t begrudge politics, for they entered it willingly.  They serve for a feeling of responsibility towards those things which enabled them to enter the field of service. What was that again in Obama’s case?

I was amazed at Herman Cain’s voice and thought it was a very appropriate tribute.  Why does everyone look for an ulterior motive.  Have you ever listened to the man?

Exactly.  Had he wished to use personal money to memorialize the event in some way, for example Shanksville site is still way behind budget, or even paid for the spot as a citizen; I would not be offended.  The Herman Cain in 2012 tag line at the end made me gag, literally.  Used contributions and any public funds he might qualify for to add this puke to our national conversation.  Doesn’t anyone remember the Republican National Convention using just a couple of seconds of the New York skyline in its prepared piece.  It dropped llike a bomb.  Not about Cain to begin with, but now  planning to use energy to spread the word to my potentially sympathetic colleagues.  Insensitive, self-serving piece of crap, he is.

I may be an Obama-gargling left-wing fruitcake.  You can wish that I eat shit; but you are shit.  Hope you’re one of the rich guys, too; there is no hope for the rest of us under your man Cain.  Cain, the fucktard.

I may be an Obama-gargling left-wing fruitcake.  You can wish that I eat shit; but you are shit.  Hope you’re one of the rich guys, too; there is no hope for the rest of us under your man Cain.  Cain, the fucktard.

jalmos – I sure hope FUCKTARD counts as a real word –  TINA_TAMPA is a fucktard.

fucktard.

Probably the Herman Cain for President 2012 at the end. It’s obvious Uncle Ruckus is exploiting the tragedy as a very bad campaign ad, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could both see it. 

I just love the way Phillip Bump expresses things: “Internet Repulsed.” What does that mean? I’ve been online screwing around for hours and I haven’t heard a word about this BS “scandal.” I kind of hope Herman Cain will be on the ticket with Rick Perry. Brother, can you just imagine how Phillip Bump and the rest of the Mediaite gang would react if they won? Ever heard of the word “paroxysms?”

Absolutely nothing is sacred any longer. Negative political ads are all over the place. While I haven’t been following Cain’s campaign he seems like one of the biggest schmucks the Republicans are parading before us. Judging from the comments here most people don’t have a problem with this ad. It’s bad enough that the hapless Giuliani has wrapped himself around 9/11. At least he had something to do with the event. Cain’s use of 9/11 imagery is just about as low as one of these super patriot types can go. It’s really cheap stuff and indicative of a third rate character with poor judgment. Also, watching the current flav of the month, Rick Perry, who appears to be a total fraud, self-destruct, makes me wonder where Republicans are coming from. Dismantle Social Security and Medicaire. This is the type of idiocy that will get a lot of people, and not just senior citizens out on the streets. Then we’ll discover what a real Tea Party is like!  

Ignore the crazies who post negative thoughts to your very correct ones.

What a load of nonsense.  You are so clueless.

That crap has been debunked so many times and I know you must spout it so often that you think it is one word , it is actually two words.

Ah, you know that some people think ” the internet” is the ultimate authority.

For years Bernie made people millions and all thought he was a money powerhouse.

You are correct! Did you ever notice all this anti-American spew is “always” unproven.

You don’t even care about being proven wrong anymore, do you? I know, I know,… now the name calling begins. Everybody loves the video!

Disgusting, offensive exploitation of other people’s tragedy he had nothing to do with. Just terror porn. The way the right fetishizes the most painful, troubling and disturbing images is disgusting.

What an affront to the families who suffered that he’s using their pain just to get his name in the news and resuscitate his flatlined campaign.

You have an “ordinary day” tomorrow, Ganymede.

NOT an NICE day, just an “ordinary” one…

The Purveyor of Rhetoric

You see. I was one of those kids that believed George Washington told his Father: “I cannot tell a lie sir, I cut down your cherry tree.”

I believed in Davey Crockett: “The man who don’t know fear.”

And I believe Abraham Lincoln grew up in Cabin and learned to read by candlelight, and split rail fences during the day.

And, I believe the “Greatest Generation” saved the World from evil, during the Second World War!

And I BELIEVE, THAT GOD BLESS[ED] AMERICA, and that the world would be a bleak place indeed, were it not for this great Nation.  

Furthermore, I no longer have a problem saying : “America, love it or leave it.”  Go somewhere, go anywhere, but I am sick of your incessant whining!

Purveyor

Curiously, in your dark world, devoid of any semblance of Nationalism, you could only see “disgusting, offensive exploitation of other peoples tragedy.”

Conversely, I saw a man and images coupled with a beautiful American ballad that conjured scenes of brotherhood, compassion, empathy, camaraderie and, hopefully, esprit de corps.  YES, “tragedy” that has historically brought many great peoples together, not caused their demise.

We have a fight before us America, not only from without, but also, from within?

The Purveyor of Rhetoric

I believe the man was paying homage, in his own way, to those who perished on 9/11.  Apparently, there are still some people left, (Mr. Cain) who are not crippled with cynicism?

Are you WISCO, “crippled”?

Purveyor

My only note would be that a Godfather’s Pizza coupon on the slate at the end and the VO tagline, “Godfather’s Pizzaaaaa, the pizza you can’t reffffuse…Do ittttttt” would have been an effective measure to increase pizza awareness. As recent polls no doubt have proved (and Candidate Cain has no doubt been informed about), Americans love pizza, gospel, branding, and 9/11 remembrances. Kudos Mr. Cain and the low level operatives who cut this together. 

Asshole

so every national tragedy should be turned into a campaign ad in your world?   I must have missed the OKlahoma politician using the Ok city bombing footage and turning into a campaign ad.. or i guess some colorado politician should use the footage of columbine kids hunted down and murdered in school?  Never forget right…purveyor we won’t forget any of these things.. this isn’t a documentary this was a campaign ad and it was exploitive and sick… 

I’ll give you credit, at least you wrote more than one sentence.  

Unfortunately, in your morose world, you’ve become paralyzed by misery.  Had I perished in one of the attacks on 9/11, I’d have gone to my death hoping, praying that American’s have the fortitude to more than get even with bastards who killed me!  

Sadly, I suspect you’d prefer dialogue and collaboration?  Furthermore, you appear to be part of the NEW plurality of American’s that prefer to whimper and cower before evil.Lastly, regarding writing mechanics, your use non sequitur, (Going from 9/11 to Oklahoma, then Columbine) made for one heck of a leap(s) from one subject to the next!  LOL

I bet you make a wonderful dinner guest?

Pardon me, but, you left me somewhat perplexed?  I caught some of the imagery, (the coupon) but, missed your context? Etc…

Also, your signing your own letter “Asshole,” leaves me a bit mystified, could you clarify your comment with a quick: “in conclusion”…, so I may be sure about your political attitude/persuasion and opinion regarding Mr. Cain’s piece?

Respectfully,  Purveyor

Attention all you Obama loving liberals….Do you smell that?  It is the revolution that is coming your way in Nov.2012.  Your beloved “Usurper In Chief” is going to be sent back to Chicago where he belongs.  He is, without a doubt, a clueless, narcissistic empty suit that is hell bent on the destruction of the Republic.  I hear many of you liberals scream racism every time someone tells the truth about Obama.  I find that ironic since the ONLY reason he was elected was because of his skin color.  I understand many people voted for him to prove they are not racist.  To vote for him again would only prove your ignorance.

How does it feel to be racist?  If anyone who says anything negative about a 1/2 black man (Obama) is racist, then logic would dictate you are really racist since Cain is a black man.

this guy is trying to make money on this video they have no shame

GOD BLESS HERMAN CAIN FOR CARING FOR HIS COUNTRY AND THOSE KILLED ON 9/11!!  There is a TRUE patriot, and he brought tears to my eyes.

All those who think there was ANYTHING wrong with this video are anti-American and should be ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES!!

He is a good man and those who criticize him are the morons.

No you don’t think THAT was a racist remark?

The author of that remark certainly has no clue as to how large the Internet is.  I suspect I know who EVERYONE” is.

You certainly are an expatriot.  No true patriot would have any problem with Cain’s video.

Who, exactly, is doing the mocking here?  It sure wasn’t Herman Cain.  Just read some of these obnoxious post.  Cain is a patriotic American who is being mocked for what every news media and politician is doing this weekend.  He’s reminding us of that horrible day when we were attacked and yet how re remain strong and standing.

If that offends anyone, then they are NOT Americans.

Oh, and incidentally, tax breaks worked for JFK and for Ronald Reagan. YOU show me where throwing good money after bad worked. It certainly did NOT work for FDR, but I don’t blame him for trying something..anything. It was WWII that turned the economy around. Not fake and temporary jobs programs.

where’s the birthcertificate?

Ask your mama.

We all know how you embraced that video and it’s anti-American 911 message…so GFY’s

I embrace this one…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGZ3v-74Ro&list=FLbdwi3G8jJUCTS3RsEsKtUg&index=31

Now that’s an angry black man!

He’s not WRONG???????  Then don’t PRETEND that you give two sh*ts for the US or that you are a patriot.  You most certainly are NOT.  You simply take up space here in this country, and if you really want to damn it or believe it’s damned, then move somewhere that will welcome you like Venezuela, Cuba, Russia or somewhere in the Middle East…pick a country.

Since we know Herman loves america we take it in the spirit he sang it.

Well, we know he loves right-wing, racist whites. Ah, I get it…to you, they are America.

We know he loves america from his actions and words. 

I see…you feel him licking your ass, and you just know he loves America:).

Perhaps with the exception of those who read Mediaite!

I’ll take Fox News anyday, as will most cable news viewers 3 to 1.  Just follow the daily ratings on this web site.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/

Your’e such a tough guy eh?.the footage doesn’t bother me..it’s  the way it was used  that does.*Watch people being murdered then Vote for Me*… speaking of dinner guest.. I make a great dinner guest because I have taste.. something you obviously lack..

Honestly, I don’t even know what that means in context.

It’s just an anti-black racist playing tit-for-tat-. 

Actually he did, but came around when he saw how bad it made him look.  Now sometimes he does wear it and sometimes he does not.

As I said above, she’s just an anti-black racist playing tit-for-tat.

The video in question speaks for itself and for Herman Cain. THAT’S how we know.

Some people hate anything that’s patriotic or American.  But thank heaven, most of the country does not.

LOL…your name says it all!  At least you got that right! 

And thanks for the compliment….I’d take Herman Cain  or any of the Republican candidates over the current incompetent moron sitting in the WH.

Why is it that Democrat Presidents since Jimmy Carter always seem to betray their friends and help their enemies?

I assume you’re talking about Mediaite.

Pablo, Disqus on this site works oddly.  You post, someone answers your post, but then you cannot reply to their answers.  Not like some other sites that use Disqus.

No, he wasn’t wrong. He was just as right as Martin Luther King was in the clip I linked to above. They are both saying the same thing, and they are both equally angry. 

Jerry Springer gets great ratings too…just saying

I don’t watch Springer, but I suspect you do.

There’s a reason that serious people who want the news are turning more and more to Fox News.  They get it fair and balanced and allow their viewers to decide for themselves what’s true or not true.  And that’s the reason for their growing influence.  Try it sometime..you may like it.

Another conservative presidential lunatic speaks or sings…at least makes an attempt.

I’m crippled by cynicism? Last time I checked, I wasn’t the one doing a song and dance routine on the graves of 3,000 people to score cheap political points. That’s the definition of cynicism.

Wingnuts. Always the first out of the gate with the victim card.

Wave that bloody shirt!

In this case, Cain’s rendition of the song was properly, respectfully, somber and therefore sincerely prayerful.

The same song is normally sung in the bright, cheerful, upbeat mood that we normally associate it with, and that would be totally wrong for this situation. Simply reading the headline and thinking of how God Bless America is normally presented gives the wrong impression, so I’m glad I took the time to listen to Cain’s rendition and understand that when sung in the somber manner Cain presented, it can be appropriate for this situation.

If this were merely a campain ad, it would be in poor taste. If the song were sung in the ”normal” bright, cheerful, and uplifting manner, it would be in even poorer taste.

But that is not how I percieve Cain did it. His rendition was prayerful and sorrowful, and therefore fitting to the somber occasion. It is not appropriate to attack him on this one. I am willing to set aside politics on this, and I hope others will, too.  

If this were merely a campain ad, it would be in poor taste. If the song were sung in the ”normal” bright, cheerful, and uplifting manner, it would be in even poorer taste.

But that is not how I percieve Cain did it. His rendition was prayerful and sorrowful, and therefore fitting to the somber occasion. It is not appropriate to attack him on this one. I am willing to set aside politics on this, and I hope others will, too.  

Dispicable rant. Take your meds.

Insane comment from Alex911.

With the greatest of pleasure!!  God Bless America!!!

He would be a thousand times better than the one we’ve got now!

Come, come, Omar..who do you think you’re fooling?  You don’t have a conservative bone in your body..or a conservative thought in your brain.

You call us who watch Fox News as “consumers”.  You are right on that point, we consume truth that is otherwise denied us on most other TV media outlets and newspapers and magazines.  We are HUNGRY for truth and don’t need supercilious, elite, insulary academics telling us how and what to think since they, so long ago, gave up that very ethic by engaging in group-think.

Bush had many faults, but also many virtues.  It would have been better for you to have supported his virtues…like honesty, compassion, steadfastness, honor, character, faithfulness to his duties and vows to Preserve and Protect, love of country,..rather than those decisions you disagreed with.  I too disagreed with several policies of Bush but am not blind to them….such as his NOT vetoing spending bills that should have been vetoed or his stance on illegal immigration.

You are correct, however, that Conservatism is not hatred,… certainly not for fellow Americans or Obama.  Conservatives believe strongly in Freedom of Speech and the Constitution, and that includes everyone who posts here.  But we can adamantly disagree with Obama’s policies which we believe will bring down this country to its knees and we aim to fight him tooth and nail to prevent that happening, and to keep him from “fundamentally changing” this country as he promised.

“God bless America, land that I love . . .” – Herman Caine

Which “god” would that be Mr. Caine? Yahweh? Allah? Shivah? It sure would be nice if you “Christian Nation” advocates would tell the rest of America which “god” it is that you’re referring to when you sing that song.

Like our Founding Fathers, I’m a Deist, so it really concerns me that you might secretely, as a potential President, be favoring one diety over another. The primary Founding Fathers – Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and Benjamin Franklin – would not look fondly on what you are doing Mr. Caine.

Aunt Zeituni and Uncle Onyango seem to have a greater love for America than you and Rev Wright do. 

…Me, Rev, Wright, and Rev. King?:)

I am not so sure that you can speak for the founders, I would rather read their words than have you speak for them.George Washington”While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.” –The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.John Adams 
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence”Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God … What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.” –Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.”The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” –Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.”The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever.” –Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.Thomas Jefferson 
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence”God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.” –Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.”I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.” –The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.John Hancock 
1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence”Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.” –History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.Benjamin Franklin 
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution”Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.” –Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

How so? Yet another bigot! If Cain were president you would rationalize your hatred for him, too!

You pointed out all the virtues Bush displayed and I might agree with some, that doesn’t mean I’m not a Conservative. Fox is NOT the Republican Party. You don’t realize that and that is pathetic! It’s a sitcom that seeks to affect US public policy. The individuals that consume fox consumer talking points are the mindless. There is no truth from fox or any other cable network. What you want to hear is what fox relishes in peddling, LIES. They lie to you and you like it.

Yet, most people know the truth. There is no need for you to say it. Here I’ll write it for you: You can’t handle your president being black. And that is SHAMEFUL!

It’s disgusting to read what you write. Attempting to mask your bigotry in “hatred of obama’s policies” you don’t hate his policies you hate his skin color and his tone. A little too uppity for you! I will say that I appreciate people like you, people who won’t hide it. I like that! Don’t hide it. It’s better for everyone to know where you stand so we know what “this” (bigotry) looks like when we see it.

I was moved by Cain’s rendition.  Moreover, for once we, (American’s) saw what we have been asking for, begging for–a look inside a Presidential candidates heart and soul.  Then when he shows his humanity, pain and patriotism, and he is criticized?  Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!

I really don’t think Mr. Cain cared what his detractors thought, rather, he simply expressed himself as he felt…

Thank you for you truly insightful comment(s)

Purveyor

You need to organize your thoughts and writing.  I did not say, (perhaps alluded) you are “crippled by cynicism.”  

Rather, I asked you: “Are you WISCO, “crippled?”"  You see I am well studied in argumentation and whether you know it or not, you diverted the question and issue away from you, thus placing it elsewhere. (on Mr. Cain?)

In a debate, you have lost the point, so to speak.

Also, regarding “cynicism,” defined as: ‘believing that people are motivated by self interest, distrustful of human sincerity.’  (Apparently you need to purchase a dictionary, or, at least, pick one up occasionally?)

By the way, I grew up in Oshkosh.

Purveyor

Wait a minute!  I play in the world of logic and I haven’t thought of this before?

In the second sentence–”logic would dictate YOU are really racist”  Who is the “you” in that sentence?

I am interested in your logic.  Could you clarify, even if you are trying to be humorous?

Purveyor

“Prayerful and sorrowful.”  I know, it really sounded good!  You just felt the need to make sure others read it.  The comment was well written.

Typically, mine tend get nasty comments back.  I can’t imagine why?  LOL  

You are a lot smarter than I thought!  LOL

Those are all potent pieces of writing that I would love to include in a seminar on “Neutral Principles.”

Dear Lord you are Cynical:

The Founding Father’s wer NOT Deists!  That is a myth.  The Founders were men of their time and Men of their time were Religious, to greater and lesser degrees.Furthermore, had I, or perhaps “Joe the Plumber”, put together that same rendition, of God Bless America, would you find it so offensive?Purveyor

Fedup in Florida, let me see if I have this straight, You would like to use quotes, of the Founding Fathers, to argue that America is a “Christian Nation”, right?

I’m afraid that you’ve only offered very weak examples. Your last example, actually proves that Benjamin Franklin was a Deist, so you’re hardly making your “Christian Nation” case.

I have dozens, maybe hundreds, of Founding Fathers quotes that will tell a very different story.

If you leave this post as is, I will start to reply with the Founding Fathers quotes that you don’t America to see.

What GOD was Obama referring to last Thursday ?

“TMP”

What GOD was Obama referring to last Thursday ?

“TMP”

Lets have em’

“TMP”

Lets have em’

“TMP”

This was sincere and from the heart and if you know anything about Herman Cain you wouldn’t view it any other way.  This was his personal tribute to those who lost their lives on 9/11 and his love of country.

You’re sick if you see it any other way and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

“TMP”

Look around you at the responses on this site.

Sorry. I do not neutrality is Christianity. I would think that the two can exist side by side, but not as one united concept. That is, a Christian may be neutral about many aspects of law, but not about faith in God as described in the bible.
Example, a Christian could be neutral about tax laws. or the need for one-way streets.

Considering that 67% of Americans could care less about swearing, that leaves roughly 33% who do … fail.

Considering that 67% of Americans could care less about swearing, that leaves roughly 33% who do … fail.

With that said, Scott Walker is going to lose his fucking ass in the recall.

See, the problem with rhetorical points is that they completely sidestep the logical ones. You’ve won nothing, except the coveted Nitpicker of the Year Award. Congrats.

1. Cain did not create a moving tribute to the victims of 9/11, he created a campaign ad. This is an undeniable fact. Cain is exploiting a tragedy for political gain.

2. As a campaign ad, it makes no sense. What’s the argument here, that 9/11 was really bad, so Herman Cain deserves to be president? It’s practically a non non sequitur.

3. 9/11 isn’t the exclusive domain of conservatives. You guys act like it happened to you, but not to liberals. Newsflash: it happened to everyone. Liberals were just against panicking and overreacting to it by invading countries that had nothing to do with it, torturing people because we’re scared, and hating other Americans who happen to be Muslim (like a certain candidate named Herman Cain). The people who came away from 9/11 with courage and a renewed commitment to liberty and justice were most definitely NOT conservatives, who were ready to throw every freedom away for a little security and to embrace a fear-based prejudice.

4. Would you be sitting there crying your eyes out over the exact same ad from the Obama campaign? Somehow, I doubt it. You’d be positively outraged and we both know it.

Just because my philosophy is “neutral principle,” does not limit my interest or ability to find wisdom or the profound in places one might least expect, even religious writings.  St. Thomas Aquinas, St Paul, in fact, most (all?) of the great philosophes of the enlightenment had been given religious educations. 

Ergo, how could I not connect the dots, as Neutral principle was born in the writing and thoughts of men such as Locke, Rousseau and Jefferson.Religion is history and philosophy…

Purveyor

It hurts having your ego handed to you, doesn’t it?  I too have had the experience, only I accept it, and learn from it.  Ouch!

I have encountered people such as yourself, all my life, they just don’t know when to call it quits.  frequently they end up in jail for taking a swing at a Cop?

Purveyor

I’d like to think that it was the “nature’s god” that the Founding Fathers described in the Declaration of Independence.

Let’s start with Benjamin Franklin and work our way backward. Keep in mind that, in my post that have commented to, I expoused that the Founders were “Deists”. Before I post some of the quotes that strongly indicate this, in Franklin’s case, let’s take a closer look at the quote that you have provided.

“Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them. As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see; But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.” – Benjamin Franklin

This quote by Franklin, that you have provided, indicates “Deism”, a belief in Providence, and a disbelief in “orthodox” Christianity.

Here are some some other quotes from Franklin that illustrate his position on “orthodox” Christianity.

“My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the dissenting [puritan] way. But I was scarce 15 when, after doubting by turns of several points as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation it self. Some books against deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at [Robert] Boyle’s lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist.“( Benjamin Franklin, Autobiography; from Autobiography And Other Writings, New York: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 58. )

“I oppose my Theist to his Atheist, because I think they are diametrically opposite and not near of kin, as Mr. Whitefield seems to suppose where (in his Journal) he tells us, ‘Mr. B. was a Deist, I had almost said an Atheist.’ That is, Chalk, I had almost said Charcoal.”
( Benjamin Franklin, letter to Thomas Hopkinson, Oct. 16, 1746; from Albert Henry Smyth, ed., The Writings of Benjamin Franklin, Volume II 1722-1750, New York: MacMillan, 1907, p. 322. )

“Upon one of his [Reverend Whitefield] arrivals from England at Boston, he wrote to me that he should come soon to Philadelphia, but knew not where he could lodge when there, as he understood his old kind host Mr. Benezet was remov’d to Germantown. My answer was; You know my house, if you can make shift with its scanty accommodations you will be most heartily welcome. He reply’d, that if I made that kind offer for Christ’s sake, I should not miss of a reward. — And I returned, Don’t let me be mistaken; it was not for Christ’s sake, but for your sake.”
( Benjamin Franklin, Autobiography; from Autobiography And Other Writings, New York: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 110. )

Clearly, when you look at Franklin’s letter to Thomas Hopkinson, Franklin did not like being called an “Atheist”, but was very proud of calling himself, a “Deist”.

“Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.”
 –History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

I’m going to withhold comment on this quote until you provide some context. It appears to be a piece mealed compilation that distorts the original context. I’d like to see what comes before, and after, “Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … ”

Besides, Hancock was a minor player in the “founding”, though he did have a huge… signature.

Jefferson and Adams are next, and I think it’s safe to say, that you’re not going to like seeing how these two “primary” Founders felt about America being a “Christian Nation”.

My comment stands.

Since this is a site openly tilted to the left, is it any wonder that most people who come here are Liberal?

Amazing!!  I support Herman Cain, a black man, yet I’m a racist bigot!  You’re logic is astounding.

From your comments, I must assume that you are a black man yourself who defends Obama ONLY because he’s black.  And don’t try to tell us that you did not vote for him in 2008.  Obama’s policies are DESTROYING this country and if you do not see that, you are a dwindling minority…and I don’t mean your color.

As for Fox News, I stand by what I said.  They are the go-to network for fairness, balance and truth.  Their audience grows every month because the public has come to realize that.  Yes, they tilt to the right, but they give the left a chance to express their views openly…as they say, “We report, You decide!”

And SHAME ON YOU for accusing anyone who disagrees with that incompetent Obama as being racist.  That Racist bullshit has worn itself out on most Americans BECAUSE of people like you who use it where it makes no sense.  It’s lost its meaning and its punch.  So, if it makes you feel better to think of me, and the millions of others like me as Racist, then I’m truly sorry for you.  If that’s all you’ve got, it’s pathetic.

Why are you questioning Cain’s God, and not Barry’s??? Herman’s middle name isn’t Hussein!

You can be a Deist till the cows come home, that doesn’t make the Founding Father’s–not even what you call the primary Founding Fathers–Deists. In fact:

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers# of
Founding
Fathers% ofFoundingFathersEpiscopalian/Anglican8854.7%Presbyterian3018.6%Congregationalist2716.8%Quaker74.3%Dutch Reformed/German Reformed63.7%Lutheran53.1%Catholic31.9%Huguenot31.9%Unitarian31.9%Methodist21.2%Calvinist10.6%TOTAL204
None of the Founding Fathers were Deists.

How would you know what the Founding Fathers would approve or not approve of today?

There is one GOD, but many religious faiths.

But how would you know, you don’t believe in a living God.

Now let’s look at Jefferson. Again, keep in mind that, in my post that you have commented to, I expoused that the Founders were “Deists”. Before I post some of the quotes that strongly indicate this, in Jefferson’s case, let’s take a closer look at the two quotes, by him, that you have provided.

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.” –Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

Good grief! Let’s look at what this cockamamie concocted quote was mined and built out of…

“God who gave us life gave us liberty”, isn’t even from the “Notes on the State of Virginia”, it’s actually from Jefferson’s A Summary View of the Rights of British America, a publication that he wrote to King George III, in 1774.

. . .This, sire, is the advice of your great American council, on the observance of which may perhaps depend your felicity and future fame, and the preservation of that harmony which alone can continue both to Great Britain and America the reciprocal advantages of their connection. It is neither our wish, nor our interest, to separate from her. We are willing, on our part, to sacrifice every thing which reason can ask to the restoration of that tranquillity for which all must wish. On their part, let them be ready to establish union and a generous plan. Let them name their terms, but let them be just. Accept of every commercial preference it is in our power to give for such things as we can raise for their use, or they make for ours. But let them not think to exclude us from going to other markets to dispose of those commodities which they cannot use, or to supply those wants which they cannot supply. Still less let it be proposed that our properties within our own territories shall be taxed or regulated by any power on earth but our own. The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. This, sire, is our last, our determined resolution; and that you will be pleased to interpose with that efficacy which your earnest endeavours may ensure to procure redress of these our great grievances, to quiet the minds of your subjects in British America, against any apprehensions of future encroachment, to establish fraternal love and harmony through the whole empire, and that these may continue to the latest ages of time, is the fervent prayer of all British America! . . .

“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence!”, is indeed from the Notes on the State of Virginia, but Houston, we have a problem. Here’s the full, unedited quote:

. . .The man must be a prodigy who can retain his manners and morals undepraved by such circumstances. And with what execrations should the statesman be loaded who, permitting one half the citizens thus to trample on the rights of the other, transforms those into despots and these into enemies, destroys the morals of the one part and the amor patriae of the other. For if a slave can have a country in this world, it must be any other in preference to that in which he is born to live and labor for another: in which he must lock up the faculties of his nature, contribute as far as depends on his individual endeavors to the evanishment of the human race or entail his own miserable condition on the endless generations proceeding from him. With the morals of the people, their industry is also destroyed. For in a warm climate, no man will labor for himself who can make another labor for him. This is so true that, of the proprietors of slaves, a very small proportion are ever seen to labor. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure, when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of god? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice can not sleep forever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! . . .

There are two huge problems with the “mined”, compiled quote that you offered up. First, Jefferson was not talking about the virtues of religious morality, he was talking about the evils of slavery. Second, look at the last word of your “mined” version. “Supernatural interference” has been replaced with “Supernatural influence”.
Fedup in Florida, you really need to dig a little deeper into your “sources”.
Now, how about this gem?

“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
–The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Here’s the quote, in context:

“I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to Charles Thomson, January 9, 1816; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, pp. 1372-1373. )

This is a quote mined from Jefferson explaining why he created “The Jefferson Bible”. Jefferson had taken a pair of scissors to the New Testament, of the Bible, removing all of the religious dogma and supernatural events, while retaining only the teachings, or philosophies, of Jesus Christ. He titled this edited version”The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth”.
I’ll let Thomas Jefferson explain, in his own words, why he compiled the teachings of Christ to comport to his Deism, and why he could call himself a “real Christian”.
Letter To Dr. Benjamin Rush.Washington, April 21, 1803.   
DEAR SIR,

In some of the delightful conversations with you in the evenings of 1798-99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you that one day or other I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other. At the short interval since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs, the subject has been under my contemplation. But the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. In the moment of my late departure from Monticello, I received from Dr. Priestley his little treatise of “Socrates and Jesus Compared.” This being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection while on the road and unoccupied otherwise. The result was, to arrange in my mind a syllabus or outline of such an estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity as I wished to see executed by someone of more leisure and information for the task than myself. This I now send you as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. And in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make every word from me a text for new misrepresentations and calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public, because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that inquisition over the rights of conscience which the laws have so justly proscribed. It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. It behooves him, too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independent opinion, by answering questions of faith which the laws have left between God and himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Next: The Jefferson quotes that America’s “Christian Nation” advocates don’t want America to read.

They do see it ‘any other way,’ which makes them sick and should be ashamed of themselves.

I believe in the “nature’s god” of the Founding Fathers. And, like the Founders, I believe that that deity is intertwined with Life, and the Universe, through the ”laws of nature”. I’d call that a “living” entity. Some people, like Einstein, call it “Spinoza’s god”.

I’ve seen that “religious affiliation of the Founding Fathers” stats before. It’s totally bogus. President Obama has not tried to intermingle his Christian faith, CHURCH, with STATE. It’s obvious, from this campaign ad, that Herman Caine plans too.

Both “Devil Spawn” and I, wrote comments on this thread that shared your sentiments.  Thus, how we America’s have been searching for an “honest man.”  Then, when we may have found him, we are so jaded by our own cynicism, we cannot recognize him, when he is found?

An allegory: Diogenes, the Athenian and “cynic philosopher,” walked the streets of ancient Athens, carrying a lit oil lamp during the day, searching for an “honest man.”  Something Diogenes, never found.

Say Hi to Melissa for DEVIL and I 

Purveyor

Bullshit!On all counts.

Looks like you detected your own Treason and now you’re out to bring others down with you.

It won’t work.

Nice work, my compliments. (quick research)  

I have concluded that the Founders were desirous of a separation of church and state as a codified portion of Governance.  Such is an easy case to make as the Founders were men who knew well the problems associated with Theocracy and/or Monarchies.

However, The Founders were sure protect against the imposition of Religion, as well as the free exercise there of.

However, I would like Mr. TREASON to define “deist,” as well as what is the rub?

Purveyor

I have decided that I dislike you.  Your condescension toward FEDUP was unnecessary.  You had the makings of thoughtful dialogue then, in your unfounded conceit threw the exchange to the wind.  Moreover, you post lacks a point, a reason, and even a definition.  Rather, seems only to be an exercise in futility.

Regardless, all too often people improperly use the word “deist” when they really mean “agnostic? Why don’t you start over and: “DEFINE YOUR TERMS?”

Out of curiosity, have you ever heard the theory that some Founders were influenced by the Iroquois Indian Nation, (Hau de nau sau ne)?  There is even a book(s) Titled “The Forgotten Founders” by Bruce Johansen, specific to the subject. 

 Furthermore, a Senate Resolution in 1987 recognized the possibility. (note: another book “Indian Givers” on the same subject)

So, were Doctor Franklin and a few of his contemporaries Pagans, or deists?

Purveyor

Here’s a lesson, for Mr. Caine, about the truth of America’s “founding”, and why “Christian Nation” advocates, like Governor Rick Perry, are trying so desperately to revise America’s history books to minimalize the influence of Founding Father, Thomas Jefferson.
Keep in mind, Fedup in Florida, that I gave you a chance to take down those mined and piece meal manufactured quotes, and that I was challenged to produce the quotes that I said proved them to be incorrect. If you want to keep believing that the “Father of the Declaration of Independence, and third President of the United States, was attempting to create a “Christian Nation”, read no further…

“It is not to be understood that I am with him [Jesus Christ] in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, of so much absurdity, so much untruth and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross, restore to him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some and the roguery of others of his disciples.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820, Works, Vol. 4., p. 320. )

“It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself. Subject opinion to coercion: whom will you make your inquisitors? Fallible men; men governed by bad passions, by private as well as public reasons. And why subject it to coercion? To produce uniformity. But is uniformity of opinion desireable? No more than of face and stature. Introduce the bed of Procrustes then, and as there is danger that the large men may beat the small, make us all of a size, by lopping the former and stretching the latter. Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a Censor morum over each other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”
( Thomas Jefferson, “Notes on the State of Virginia,” 1782; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, p. 286. )

“The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words.  And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a Virgin Mary, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823; from The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence, Chapel Hill and London: University of North Carolina Press, 1987, p. 594. )

“For if we could believe that he [Jesus] really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods and the charlatanisms which his biographers father on him, and admit the misconstructions, interpolations and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and fanatics of the latter ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind, that he was an impostor.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, August 4, 1820; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, p. 1435. )

“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
( Thomas Jefferson, “Notes on the State of Virginia,” 1782; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, p. 285. )

“To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820; from The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence, Chapel Hill and London: University of North Carolina Press, 1987, p. 568. )

“It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [Revelation], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, January 17, 1825; from Fawn M. Brodie, Thomas Jefferson, An Intimate History, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1974, p. 453. )

“In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371. )

“I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to Charles Thomson, January 9, 1816; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, pp. 1372-1373. )

“History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 370. )

“I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789; [ Richard Price had written to Jefferson about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?" Oct. 26, 1788.] from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, p. 935. )

“I join you therefore in sincere congratulations that this den of the priesthood is at length broken up, and that a protestant popedome is no longer to disgrace the American history and character. If, by religion, we are to understand Sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, ‘that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’ But if the moral precepts, innate in man, a made a part of his physical condition, as necessary for social being, if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism, and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth in which all agree, constitute true religion, then whithout it, this would be, as you again say, ‘something not fit to be named, even indeed a Hell.’”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, May, 5, 1817; from The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence, Chapel Hill and London: University of North Carolina Press, 1987, p. 512. )

“Nor did the question ever occur to me before Where did we get the ten commandments? The book indeed gives them to us verbatim. But where did it get them? For itself tells us they were written by the finger of god on tables of stone, which were destroyed by Moses: it specifies those on the 2d. set of tables in different form and substance, but still without saying how the others were recovered. But the whole history of these books is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been plaid with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts are genuine. In the New testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have been proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814; from The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence, Chapel Hill and London: University of North Carolina Press, 1987, p. 421. )

“The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power and preeminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, July 5, 1814; from The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence, Chapel Hill and London: University of North Carolina Press, 1987, p. 433. )

“I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor.”
( Thomas Jefferson, notes for a speech, c. 1776; from Gorton Carruth and Eugene Ehrlich, The Harper Book of American Quotations, eds., New York: Harper & Row, 1988, p. 498. )

“The hocus pocus phantasm of a God, like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Smith, December 8, 1822; from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents: From Washington to F.D.R., New York: Prometheus Books, 1995, p. 104. )

“If anybody thinks that kings, nobles, or priests are good conservators of the public happiness send them here [to Paris]. It is the best school in the universe to cure them of that folly.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to George Wythe, August 13, 1786; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, p. 859. )

And, finally, here’s the bulk of Jefferson’s letter to his nephew, Peter Carr…

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first, the religion of your own country. Read the Bible, then as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The facts which are within the ordinary course of nature, you will believe on the authority of the writer, as you do those of the same kind in Livy and Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor, in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature, does not weigh against them. But those facts in the Bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from God. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong, as that its falsehood would be more improbable than a change in the laws of nature, in the case he relates. For example, in the book of Joshua, we are told, the sun stood still several hours. Were we to read that fact in Livy or Tacitus, we should class it with their showers of blood, speaking of statues, beasts, etc. But it is said, that the writer of that book was inspired. Examine, therefore, candidly, what evidence there is of his having been inspired. The pretension is entitled to your inquiry, because millions believe it. On the other hand, you are astronomer enough to know how contrary it is to the law of nature that a body revolving on its axis, as the earth does, should have stopped, should not, by that sudden stoppage, have prostrated animals, trees, buildings, and should after a certain time gave resumed its revolution, and that without a second general prostration. Is this arrest of the earth’s motion, or the evidence which affirms it, most within the law of probabilities? You will next read the New Testament. It is the history of a personage called Jesus. Keep in your eye the opposite pretensions: 1, of those who say he was begotten by God, born of a virgin, suspended and reversed the laws of nature at will, and ascended bodily into heaven; and 2, of those who say he was a man of illegitimate birth, of a benevolent heart, enthusiastic mind, who set out without pretensions to divinity, ended in believing them, and was punished capitally for sedition, by being gibbeted, according to the Roman law, which punished the first commission of that offence by whipping, and the second by exile, or death in fureâ.…
“Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it ends in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe there is a God, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, and that he approves you, will be a vast additional incitement; if that there be a future state, the hope of a happy existence in that increases the appetite to deserve it; if that Jesus was also a God, you will be comforted by a belief of his aid and love. In fine, I repeat, you must lay aside all prejudice on both sides, and neither believe nor reject anything, because any other persons, or description of persons, have rejected or believed it. Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable, not for the rightness, but uprightness of the decision. I forgot to observe, when speaking of the New Testament, that you should read all the histories of Christ, as well of those whom a council of ecclesiastics have decided for us, to be Pseudo-evangelists, as those they named Evangelists. Because these Pseudo-evangelists pretended to inspiration, as much as the others, and you are to judge their pretensions by your own reason, and not by the reason of those ecclesiastics.”
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, August 10, 1787; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1984, pp. 902-904. )

Here’s a link to the letter in its entirety:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_carr.html

Here’s a quick cut and paste definition of “deism”, from Wikipedia - it’s close enough.

Deism in the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is a creation and has a creator. Furthermore, the term often implies that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending to assert that a god (or “the Supreme Architect”) does not alter the universe by (regularly or ever) intervening in the affairs of human life. This idea is also known as the Clockwork universe theory, in which a god designs and builds the universe, but steps aside to let it run on its own. Deists believe in the existence of a god without any reliance on revealed religion, religious authority or holy books. Two main forms of deism currently exist: classical deism and modern deism.

The “rub” is Hermann Caine’s video, which is an advocacy, and endorsement of, the intermingling of CHURCH and STATE. The post that you are responding to, was a spin-off of a conversation, in this thread, about the beliefs of the Founding Fathers, that was started by Fedup in Florida. You can read that conversation starting here…

http://www.mediaite.com/online/internet-repulsed-by-herman-cains-911-singalong-video-featuring-twin-towers-attack/#comment-307414032

Bullshit!On all counts.

= Ad hominem + Begging the question.

Looks like you detected your own Treason and now you’re out to bring others down with you.

= Ad hominem + Red herring.

It won’t work.

Time will tell.

Why don’t you start over and: “DEFINE YOUR TERMS?”

I already did in response to another of your posts. To keep from repeating myself, go here…

http://www.mediaite.com/online/internet-repulsed-by-herman-cains-911-singalong-video-featuring-twin-towers-attack/#comment-307847425

So, were Doctor Franklin and a few of his contemporaries Pagans, or deists?

They were “Deists” in my book. Most Christians, on the other hand, when faced with unrevised history, would consider that “primary” Founding Fathers “Pagans”, because they didn’t believe in the Judeo-Christian “God”. 
 

Mr. Bump,  Your test is faulty.  If you read Obama’s books, you’d realize he hates what the U.S. stands for and as his wife Michelle stated, prior to being elected they were never proud of their country.  So if it was “O” singing, I’d know what he sang was a lie. Here, Herman Cain shows his love for the United States. 

You keep that thought Pal. Maybe you could post where the Founding Fathers described “natures god” or the “Earth GOD” in the Declaration of Independence. I’d really like to see that one.

“TMP”

The only way Purveyor “won” is if this was a track meet.  Because he/she couldn’t run away from your valid points fast enough.  Well said, Wisco.

Well, I’m not sure where you came with “Earth God”, but the DOI source for “nature’s god” is the Preamble:

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,…

It’s not a lenthy description, by any means, but it’s there… “natures god” is the “creator” of the “laws of nature” and the “unalienable rights” of men. Or, in other words, the god of deism.

“To assume among the powers of the earth”

means the people join the world powers not earth powers.

“the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them”

Again giving praise to God who created nature, not a natures GOD.
Man are you mixed up.

Nice try at mixing up the meaning of the Declaration of Independence but a classic atheistic failure.

LMAO

“TMP”

So There and I ran out of “reply”s in our discourse about the “nature’s god” in the declaration of Indpendence, so I resume it here…

“To assume among the powers of the earth”
means the people join the world powers not earth powers.

Nonsense. 

“the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them”
Again giving praise to God who created nature, not a natures GOD.Man are you mixed up.

Psyhochological projection.

Nice try at mixing up the meaning of the Declaration of Independence but a classic atheistic failure.
LMAO

Thomas Jefferson, a “Deist” like myself, would find your LYAO sad.

We’re at the base of this comment’s nesting, so there’s no “reply” option on your latest comment. I’ve done a new top tier comment to keep this discourse going…

http://www.mediaite.com/online/internet-repulsed-by-herman-cains-911-singalong-video-featuring-twin-towers-attack/#comment-307958048 

Any chance you’re related to Tiffany? Your logic sucks as much as his does.

Wow!  It looks like you spent a great deal of time putting this together..  

Even so all you have done is challenge Jefferson’s own words with other of his writings.  

“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.” 
–The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

It is no secret that Jefferson had an internal struggle with Christianity, he was a man of faith who spent a great deal of time researching and studying the life of Jesus Christ trying to resolve the mystery of faith surrounding Jesus. Who are you or I to assume that we know how Jefferson resolved his struggle.  

Your original post was;

“Like our Founding Fathers, I’m a Deist, so it really concerns me that you might secretely, as a potential President, be favoring one Deity over another. The primary Founding Fathers – Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton,John Jay, and Benjamin Franklin – would not look fondly on what you are doing Mr. Caine.” 

Then you went on to argue that;

“I believe in the “nature’s god” of the Founding Fathers. And, like the Founders, I believe that that deity is intertwined with Life, and the Universe, through the ”laws of nature”. I’d call that a “living” entity. Some people, like Einstein, call it “Spinoza’s god”.”

The quotes I provided should show that the god our founders spoke of was not the god of nature but rather the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible.  You have listed a great many quotes here of Thomas Jefferson and you fairly document his struggle with his faith, but you do nothing to defend your theory as to the other founders.  

I will give you more to consider,

“No country upon earth ever had it more in its power to attain these blessings than United America. Wondrously strange, then, and much to be regretted indeed would it be, were we to neglect the means, and to depart from the road, which Providence has pointed us to so plainly; I cannot believe it will ever come to pass.” 
-George Washington

“It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”-George Washington

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports.”-George Washington

“No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand, which conducts the affairs of men, more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent Nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency.”-George Washington

“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand.”-John Adams

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”-John Adams

“Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right, from the frame of their nature, to knowledge, as their great Creator, who does nothing in vain, has given them understandings, and a desire to know.”-John Adams

“If you carefully fulfill the various Duties of Life, from a Principle of Obedience to your heavenly Father, you shall enjoy that Peace which the World cannot give nor take away.”
-Samuel Adams

It may surprise you to when I tell you that I am an agnostic, so for me to understand the struggle that our founders as Jefferson and to some extent Franklin had in accepting Jesus Christ as the son of God is not so hard…  but I remain of the firm belief that the founders in reference to god were speaking and writing of the same god that we find in the Judeo-Chirstian religions, the same God of Islam as well..  I will leave you with this…

“James Madison was one of the pillars and ornaments of his country and of his age … he nobly fulfilled his destinies as a man and a Christian. He has improved his own condition by improving that of his country and his kind.”  - John Quincy Adams

TrueDat. (With apologies to the guy who used that as a screen name.) :-)

I never said that the founders wanted to intermingle church and state, but the founders also had a firm belief that without a belief in providence in our society that our republic would be lost.

Cain has done nothing to make me believe that he would advocate for a national religion, all of our presidents Obama included have expressed a faith in God…  It has only been in the last few years that it has become fashionable to excoriate candidates for their religious beliefs..

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
-John Adams

The quotes I provided should show that the god our founders spoke of was not the god of nature but rather the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible.  You have listed a great many quotes here of Thomas Jefferson and you fairly document his struggle with his faith, but you do nothing to defend your theory as to the other founders. – Fedup in Florida.

I was just getting started, and I thought that you had “bailed” on the debate after seeing Jefferson’s quotes. I’ll be gone for a few hours but, when I get back, I’ll russle up some of quotes from Deist, John Adams. 

Sorry but your post was so ridiculous that it doesn’t need further comment.

“TMP”

Your Natures GOD crap is nonsense. 

Go bother someone else. You seem to be terribly confused.

“TMP”

He ran out of replies? That’s the excuse?

He didn’t have much of a case to begin with.

He ran out of intelligence when he tried this crazy “Earth God” nonsense.

“TMP”

WTF are you even talking about?

While I do appreciate your response regarding my request to “define your terms,” respectfully, I could have, in fact did, look up up the various definitions.  What I was looking for from you, is YOUR definition, how you use the word and in what contexts?  

Also, I read, thoroughly, and with interest, FEDUP’s lengthy and thorough post. (Also, BOBBY McGEE’S)  

So, that is what this is all about, is your objection to a private citizen’s, (who is running for President) alleged “advocacy, and endorsement of, the intermingling of CHURCH AND STATE?”  Hmm. 

After all the chit chat and correspondence between the various Founders, where in America’s Governmental Treatises can a citizen find the end result of all the wrangling over positions of church and state?  I suggest that everyone has discussed the journey, perhaps now, the arrival, the conclusion to our journey toward secularism, or not to secularism, would be appropriate?  Ouch!

IS THERE A CODIFIED, SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE?

Indulge me with a question(s): Can a man, philosophically, be a deist, yet also be religious?  Can a nation be Governmentally secular, yet, still be religious?

Purveyor 

Just a brief note to tell you how thoughtful the passages you posted are/were.  TREASON,DETECT, I am trying to find a little more about.  HIs thoughts, not just the thoughts from a particular ideology?  Where he’s coming from and going too, so to speak.  

Anyway, Thank you.

Purveyor

I apologize for saying “I dislike you.”  Sincerely.  (Only to give you a reason and NOT an excuse, I thought I saw a more substantive conversation with FEDUP, etc., and I perceived you were dismissing such?)

Regardless, I admit to being intrigued by some of your thoughts.  Perhaps, the esoterica of the subject matter requires more clarity in the discourse?

Anyway, I am offering to start over again?  Perhaps starting with legal philosophy (deism and the Constitution)?

Purveyor of Rhetoric

I think that you have made a case for your opinion, I think that Jefferson was an agnostic, I think that the research he did on Jesus Christ and the bible showed his search for faith, when I could not find it he still felt that even if he could not have faith in Jesus as his savior he still felt that the teachings of Jesus and the christian bible were of value hence he wrote the Jefferson Bible which incorporated those teachings.

As for your assertion that our founders were Deist, I think that you probably would be correct about some of the founders as it can be seen in their writings as well as it was a topic of discussion between the founders..  But I would also argue that it is still widely believed that the majority of the founders were Christians.  

I can see that you have done much research on this issue and it occurs to me that this has been more than a topic of discussion for you but more of a matter for study.  Not so much for me and the issue is more one of passing interest and of respect for the role that religion plays in our society, as I said earlier I consider myself to be Agnostic.  

But I will leave with with a few quotes as you may enjoy reading them, I can see that you have spent some time on the founders so it may be that you have seen all these before, but these quotes would support their allegiance to the bible if not the Christianity of the founders who made them.  

*****************************
“The religion which has introduced civil
liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles…to this we owe our free
constitutions of government.” – Noah Webster
“Suppose
a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law book,
and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there
exhibited…. What a utopia, what a paradise would this region be.” – John
Adams

The
Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student’s perusal of the sacred volume
will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband.” -
Thomas Jefferson

“The
Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests.” – Andrew Jackson

“We
have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” -
James Madison

“He
who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of primitive
Christianity will change the face of the world.” – Benjamin Franklin

“It
can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was
founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the
gospel of Jesus Christ.” – Patrick Henry

“I have tender
reliance on the mercy of the Almighty; through the merits of the Lord Jesus
Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.” Alexander
Hamilton’s last dying words, July 12, 1804

“Oh, eternal
and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in
the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit. Daily,
frame me more and more in the likeness of thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in
thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the
resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race
of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of thee and thy son,
Jesus Christ.” – George Washington”Providence
has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well
as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer
Christians for their rulers.” John Jay the first Supreme Court Justice Take care…  and lighten up on Rush…  He’s just having a little fun… and making a little money..LOL I have not heard him in years, but even right wingers like myself know that he is just a blow hard…

Depends on what your definition of “left” and “right” is.

Not to mention “up” and “down.”

I really regret not having been on site when this conversation was taking place.  I have had some contact with you and read some of your posts.  But, during this conversation I saw the depth of your intellect.  My compliments.

TREASON, is smart also.  Sometimes, it is can be difficult to reach that conclusion because they appear to disagree with you, hence, one dismisses them out of course? (Also obnoxious? LOL)

Religion and Governance is a subject I have devoted much time too.  I believe that TREASON would have made a superior case were he to have asserted that “Deism” is NOT a religion , per se.  Rather, a philosophy.  By definition, deism does not quite equate with a “religion,” yet, proffers a way or path of existence and life, hence, a philosophy.

Such would be compatible with the concept of a “separation of church and State.” (note: I am aware such is not codified in our Governmental treatises)

Purveyor

I really regret not having been on site when this conversation was taking place.  I have had some contact with you and read some of your posts.  But, during this conversation I saw the depth of your intellect.  My compliments.

TREASON, is smart also.  Sometimes, it is can be difficult to reach that conclusion because they appear to disagree with you, hence, one dismisses them out of course? (Also obnoxious? LOL)

Religion and Governance is a subject I have devoted much time too.  I believe that TREASON would have made a superior case were he to have asserted that “Deism” is NOT a religion , per se.  Rather, a philosophy.  By definition, deism does not quite equate with a “religion,” yet, proffers a way or path of existence and life, hence, a philosophy.

Such would be compatible with the concept of a “separation of church and State.” (note: I am aware such is not codified in our Governmental treatises)

Purveyor

What the heck was wrong with that. Maybe less direct sound from actual people in the beginning, but this is why people luv this guy. Or maybe many of u do not like the song let alone Herman.

Omar Locke, a feminine personality, seeks to divert our focus from the catastrophe that is Obama, by fixing our attention on Dubyas alleged faults. Omar, Honey, Oscambo don’t get no better ’cause Dubya has only a two digit IQ. Obamas behavior certifies him(or it) as a psychopath; a communist-moslem America hater. He does not belong in the White House. He belongs in an asylum for the criminally insane. And the sooner we put him there the better off we will be. You pretend to he horrified that a half-black man is vilified; even when the derrogations are well deserved. But he is also hal white. How do you know which half, if either, is the focus of your alleged “racial hatred”? Do blacks hate him because he is half white? Do those who despise asians hate him because he is the adopted son of an Indonesian man? Or do many of us despise his conduct because it is so egregious?