It is inappropriate to blame the tea party for violence, since it has not been violent. However, the tea party needs to renounce violence, to discourage threats of violence coming from the tea party faithful, vis a vis the signs that some tea party members carry threatening violence.

Fox news seems to be getting this anti-violence message: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/13/fox-news-publishes-semi-c_n_535539.html

I actually fear the American Taliban. Anti-governmentalism is an extremist ideology. Hopefully sooner or later, because most of these people are really old, they will die out and leave room for the younger generations.

Fifteen years after Oklahoma City, we can see that home grown terrorists in the vein of McVeigh are few and far between. There are isolated incidents but nothing organized– kind of along the line of “lone assassin”. A NYT article not too long ago observed that even with all the mouthing off and political dissent, nothing violent comes of it. It’s just that–mouthing off.

I would like to have seen Timothy McVeigh re-animated and put to death over and over for each individual he murdered.

I would also like to see justice on behalf of the 76 men, women, and children burned alive at Waco by Clinton, Reno, and Wesley Clark.

They murdered 76 people. Why are they still walking around free?

Anti-governmentalism is, in its purist form, anarchy. To be sure, the Tea Partiers and the militia members are not anarchists. In point of fact, they seem to espouse a high level of governmental intervention in foreign policy and in internal social policy. One of the greatest falsehoods about the Tea Partiers is that they are libertarian in their views. Far from it. That makes them conflicted, but no less a potential threat. I watched Stewart and Maddow, and I don’t think they were pushing for an equivalency, but for an understanding of McVeigh. I am sure we all hope that McVeighism is sui generis and that Tea Partyism is as well, that Tea Partyism is not a slippery slope into McVeigism. To that end, I do think Tea Partiers and conservatives in general ought to clear in their denunciation of rightist terrorism, not the wink-wink, nod-nod, too cute by half type of Palin and Bachmann response.

I won’t argue with you, Barney With the Highly Offensive Avatar, other than to say in your denunciation of Reno & Company, let’s not exhalt Koresh, a violent, dangerous cultist who routinely physically, sexually and physically abused women and children and engaged in the most sordid perverse, deviant, anti-social behavior. Nor should we diminish his crazed followers.

We all looked on in horror at the Waco tragedy. And though most of us did not feel sorry for Koresh, we did feel sorry for the children that were burned alive. The government most definitely screwed up with that. Government abuse is a problem that we should be concerned about. However, by peaceful and democratic means.

I for one am rather uncomfortable with all the promotions MSNBC is doing for that special. I’m sick of it.
It’s terror-porn disguised as a public service.
A few well placed ads would be far better than the blanket advertising they have been doing to raise their ratings on the back of a mass murderer.
And now Rachel is doing the “talk show circuit” to promote it as well?

It’s overkill (no pun intended).

I agree with you, Valkyrie.

We would have been better served by a more aggressive post-event investigation.

I had hoped that Texas’ Child Protective Services would have examined its policies as well and been more aggressive in protecting children whose parents knowingly and intentionally placed them in dangerous, abusive, cult situations. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen either.

We seem to have learned little and changed less. I suppose the only blessing is that the world does not have to deal with Koresh and his crazed followers anymore.

I think your point is awfully good, Big. In fact, I think it may be the best post of the week.

Waco is a stark warning to these militia lunatics. The US Military will blow the crazies off this planet. They were warned repeatedly. And Rachel is just terrific!

Big_F-ing_Deal says:
April 14, 2010 at 10:08 am
I for one am rather uncomfortable with all the promotions MSNBC is doing for that special. I’m sick of it.
It’s terror-porn disguised as a public service.
A few well placed ads would be far better than the blanket advertising they have been doing to raise their ratings on the back of a mass murderer.
And now Rachel is doing the “talk show circuit” to promote it as well?

It’s overkill (no pun intended).

Wow, Who would have thought I completely agree with this individual. Well said. It’s similar to MSNBC’s obsession with thugs in the prison system (Lock-Up) and Pedophiles (CAP). Is there nothing positive
to report?

Tim McVeigh executed in 2001

First tea party in 2009

Rachel must be running out of tea party smears if she needs to reach for these tenuous connections. Maybe next week she can link the tea partiers to Marie Antoinette or Rasputin.

By the way, I don’t think it’s overkill. You’re not forced to watch it. I’m sure the teabaggers aren’t thrilled because the rhetoric they spew sounds exactly the same as that nut job’s. Not to mention the rally that these gun loving idiots are holding on the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. Very classy. The government is not coming for their guns and they know it. They simply want to flaunt their weapons for us all. The problem is that, as I said, no one has more fire power than the US Military. These loons who can’t get their way by voting, since the sane people out number them, have chosen to try and intimidate the rest of us. It’s not working. They’re just reminding us of recent history.

Well, Felix, you can certainly see an ideological continuity in McVeigh and the Tea Partiers’ anti-government positions. Of course, that is terribly broad and of little value. Also, McVeigh was mild-mannered but dangerous, and the Tea Partiers are loud and obnoxious, but toothless. I don’t think Rachel was making a direct line connection. I believe she was saying there is renewed interest in McVeigh because of the emergence of anti-government groups, all the way from the militia groups, particularly in Michigan and Oklahoma, to the Tea Partiers. To that extent, I think Rachel is correct.

Rasputin, I can see. Marie?

The baggers are a bunch of ignorant racists. I’ve explained this before. They’ve received a tax cut when Obama took office. None of these inbreds makes more than 250,000 dollars a year. Under Regan and Bush, the government was never small yet, where were these idiots? Regan trippled the deficit and Bush nearly trippled it. They seem to have a protest every week now and it’s gotten old. Even that idiot pin up isn’t stupid enough to be seen with these loons. Did you notice how quiet the latest recess was? They’re basically a national joke.

By the way, Oklahoma highschool students couldn’t answer the question, who was the first President of the United States. You would think their states had more important things to do! They’re breeding the stupid.

Denunciation as an entirety is breeding stupid. No hate in the those posts. “inbreds”? What a tragedy.

Could a person be more disgusting than this “roxsteady” person?

oh – hes explained this all before huh?

inbreds?

and people who make less than $250,000 a year are somehow…what..bad? stupid?

And this fool pretends that he is a progressive that stands up for “working americans”?

His reference to Oklahoma students is beyond stupid….and even though Im a labor/leftist – I am disgusted by anyone who uses the word “teabaggers” to insult the new right wing. Its childish and disgraceful – which seems to be this “person’s” M.O. in all things.

My fellow Texans and I always take great solace in the fact that Oklahoma neighbors us. It’s rather like the small town beauty queen whose best friend is inevitably fat with frizzy hair, bad teeth and pimples. How beautiful the queen looks standing next to her.

According to a poll published today:

“Twenty-four percent (24%) of voters now consider themselves a part of the Tea Party movement, an eight-point increase from a month ago. Another 10% say they are not a part of the movement but have close friends or family members who are.”

That means a hundred million people are either planning to bomb Federal buildings or are harboring criminals in their home. I hope Rachel reports on this highly dangerous situation tonight.

roxsteady says:
April 14, 2010 at 10:40 am
By the way, Oklahoma highschool students couldn’t answer the question, who was the first President of the United States. You would think their states had more important things to do! They’re breeding the stupid.

Ask that same question in any NYC public school and see what the results are.

Yes, Felix, and one point in time substantial numbers of Americans were members of Bull Moose Party, the Margarine Producers Association and the Arthur Godfrey Fan Club.

Why is maddow so infactuated with mcveigh, but, totally ignored recent terorrism attacks by hasan, fort dix 6, etc? Answer, it’s a partisan hack!

The obligatory marginalizing statement.

Not you Olby.

I know who you are referring to, penguin60. The olbyloon diversion @ 11:14.

“The Real Royal King says:
April 14, 2010 at 9:31 am
I won’t argue with you, Barney With the Highly Offensive Avatar, other than to say in your denunciation of Reno & Company, let’s not exhalt Koresh, a violent, dangerous cultist who routinely physically, sexually and physically abused women and children and engaged in the most sordid perverse, deviant, anti-social behavior. Nor should we diminish his crazed ..”

Huh? Why is my avatar offensive?/ You don’t like pictures of black people, you racist a-hole??

So..where is the proof behind ANY allegation of abuse, sexual or otherwise, by Koresh?. Who in the hell is “exhalting” anyone.

Clinton, Reno, and Wesley Clark should face the same punishment that McVeigh did.

Because individuals were practiicing their right to live as they pleased, you think they’re “crazed”? And, it was OK to murder them by burning them alive?

I’m not sure what “infactuated” means, perhaps, full of facts. Mr. Wizard? And, why is it you would single out Mr. Wizard for scorn and ridicule.

Might I ask, Jeff, do you have proof that Ms. Maddow “totally ignored” Fort Hood and Fort Dix? If you Google “Maddow Fort Hood” you quickly get more than 50 pages of Maddow talking about Fort Hood or people talking about Maddow talking about Fort Hood. As to Fort Dix, there 43 web pages which deal with Maddow and the topic. I am sure you will recall that the Fort Dix indictments were in May 2007, and Rachel did not get her show until August 2008.

So your point seems wholly incorrect, Jeff. Do you care to explain why you are wrong on this point. Is it intentional or just an example of sloppy grunting on your part?

We have left on the table the question of all your incorrect predictions about the 2008 presidential election, President Obama’s swearing in and the CAIR lawsuit. Amerika wants to know the answers to these questions. Basically, Amerika wants to know how you could have been so consistently and thoroughly wrong. We await your answer.

While you are in the question answering mode: Why are you so “infactuated” with Olbermann?

Many thanks Barney With the Highly Offensive Avatar. You effectively made my point.

“Many thanks Barney With the Highly Offensive Avatar. You effectively made my point.”

Huh?? Seriously..what do you find offensive about the FLOTUS?? Do you hate black people?? If so, would it be OK to murder them in youir view, since you have very strange rationale for the government being able to kill without impunity anyone it chooses?/

felix,
The tea party brings on tea party scorn when it permits or endorses violent signs or language. Of course the tea party can not control its demonstrators. But at least publically, as a matter of stated tea party principle, violence must be renounced. Not with a wink and a nod.

I find your screen name and crown avatar highly offensive since monarchies historically had murdered whomever they wished to without impunity as they considered themselves above the masses

I suppose if someone were to view Waco as essentially a second amendment dispute, then it was somewhat of an Alamo.

Karesh didn’t “rape” anybody. Totally made up by reno and her klub.

The only time maddow brought up fort dix or hasan was to downplay the events.

Olby Sucks says:
April 14, 2010 at 12:08 pm

The only time maddow brought up fort dix or hasan was to downplay the events.

—

Wrong, again. You’re not reading or watching the discussions.

Olby Sucks says:
April 14, 2010 at 12:06 pm

Karesh didn’t “rape” anybody. Totally made up by reno and her klub.

—

Wrong, again, Jeff.

The raid, explosion and fires were precipitated by efforts to serve an arrest warrant for abuse of minor girls and weapons charges. After the tragedy, abuse victims testified as to being raped before Congress. There is some compelling, sobering testimony of the abused girls which you can find readily using virtually any search engine.

To be sure, Koresh wasn’t convicted, but only because he effectively killed himself. In that sense, he wasn’t found guilty, but that would be rather like the Menendez brothers seeking leniency because they were orphans.

How very odd that one would defend the despicable Koresh.

You need t do some reading, Jeff. You are drowning in a sea of ignorance.

philby/robert, you’re a liar.

Olby, when you have sex with twelve year olds, that is rape. And his own ex-members say that he did.

Maddow Complains Labeling Hasan Terrorist’ Would Paint the Democrats as Soft on Terror’ … She even attempted to make the case on Hasan’s behalf against a terrorism label. …

MADDOW: We begin tonight with another deadly act of domestic terrorism.

As Maddow said this, a photo of Tiller was shown situated above the word TERRORISM in capitalized block letters, lest anyone miss the point.

Jeff seems to be copying and pasting anything he can find, however senseless or irrelevant.

Might I recommend that you make yourself a nice mug of Bosco and snuggle up with a comforter?

philby/robert/mark plays the “you’re just copying and pasting” card…LOL!

Clinton, Reno, and Wesley Clark burned 76 men, women, and children alive..

…and this idiot The Real Royal King is defending this based on false testimony of a girl named Kiki Jewell, who is documented to have lied constantly on her stories about the Branch Davidians..

..she was put up by the thugs that murdered the 76 men, women, and children

The left had radical and violent groups in its midst back in the sixties and early seventies. Those forces did not suceed in bringing the left to violent revolution. The mainstream left, the non-violent protester, reigned in the violent element. Likewise, among the tea partiers are some people who are gathering weapons and threatening violence. It is the tea party’s job to disavow violence, or action outside of the democratic process.

Maddow Complains Labeling Hasan Terrorist’ Would Paint the Democrats as Soft on Terror’”

Well, duh? The Christmas bomber was an “isolated incident” in their minds and they couldn’t get him an attorney fast enough.

I wonder when RM is going to do an expose on home grown Islamic terrorists? I won’t be holding my breath. In recent times who have killed more, homegrown Islamic terrorists or militia? I wonder how a poll would come out if you asked the question:
Who concerns you more, TEA Party members or homegrown Islamic Terror?

When will the left “reign” in the Earth Liberation Front? Ever see footage of the G20 or WTO protests? How many were wounded at the last Tea Party protest? How many were arrested? What was the cost of property damage?

Those who pay attention know that the left simply wants to paint the Tea Party as racist, violent, uneducated hillbillies so the average Independent will think twice about showing support. It’s not working, and the more they smear, the more support the Tea Party gets.

Dissention is patriotism, remember? Or is that only when the left dissents?

Yes, Barney, you are clearly establishing your reputation around here. DNA testing established that Koresh fathered 12 children by “women” age 13 or under. That, Sir, even by our lenient standards in Texas, is rape.

Penguin, Brian: Why are you so fearful of a McVeigh expose? What does that do to you?

The Bosco is finished and the comforter is stinky. And, now, Jeff, you have a number of important outstanding questions to answer. Please proceed.

I really have no fear of bringing up that coward. He was a criminal and got what he deserved. I will wait and see how RM plays it. I hope she does not try to link McVeigh and the TEA Party. She, and others, have asserted the TEA Party people advocate violence. How many of these people have actually been to a TEA Party event? I have, and not seen anything close to violence. There was a counter protest at one of the gatherings and even that was handled quite well, nobody said a word to them. I have never been politically active (except for voting). I see many others that are exercising their 1st Amendment Rights having to defend themselves for doing so, and I think that’s a tragedy.

valkyrie101 says:
April 14, 2010 at 9:14 am

You see (and probably have recognized) the catch-22 in the situation. IF the Tea Party says to its members, “Don’t be violent,” the media will report (read: regurgitate from left-wing websites) the, “If they weren’t already violent, they wouldn’t have had to say anything,” line. IF they don’t say anything, then the media (again) will say, “The need to do XYZ!” Either way, the left and the media play “Gotcha!”

Frankly, it’s just another political tactic… but watch how the band of regulars gobble it up.

The Real Royal King says:
April 14, 2010 at 9:31 am

Why is “Barney’s” avatar offensive?

roxsteady says:
April 14, 2010 at 10:31 am

By the way, I don’t think it’s overkill. You’re not forced to watch it.

Yes, this is your approach to Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly, Limbaugh, FOX News, etc. etc. Right?

OH wait… no it’s not.

TRRK, would you please call someone a racist; it’s been one minute. You are behind your daily quota.

Give him a minute. hahaha

I will wait and see how RM plays it.

—

That’s a good decision.

The Real Royal King says:
April 14, 2010 at 9:31 am

Why is “Barney’s” avatar offensive?

—

Let’s get real. I am not going to discuss that in what is suppose to be a civil forum.

I suppose you don’t think the “Little Rascals” has racist overtones.

“That’s a good decision.”
Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg29GWk2nMc&playnext_from=TL&videos=037c9kQKGCg&feature=sub

I know this is Maxine, but it points out perceptions are real.
How do you counter this logic?

The Real Royal King says:
April 14, 2010 at 3:44 pm

Ah… the old, “I’ll call you a racist, but won’t talk about why” canard. Got it.

How about this… I think your avatar is sexist and anti-Semitic. Go ahead, ask me why… shhhh, I’ll never tell!

As for the “Little Rascals,” you mean the show or a comment? I don’t think I’ve ever seen the show, and I’m not sure who made the comment.

This “narrative” about violent Republicans has reached a point of absurdity when the Left needs to drudge out events from Waco and Oklahoma from the last century to distract attention from what is really happening right now with the Obama administration.

The plain truth is that the tea parties have been organized because the government is heading towards bankruptcy. Maddow and company can spin their “narrative” all day long, but they can’t change the reality. The tea parties are about policy not skin color or birth certificates or blowing up buildings. The fact that the left is absolutely unwilling to discuss and debate these policies, and constantly need to “re-frame” the discussion to avoid all policy discussion, tells you how desperate they have become.

I guess folks aren’t up on current events.

From Associated Press:

“A federal grand jury in Detroit has indicted nine people, including Kristopher Sickles, in connection with an alleged plot to kill police and start an anti-government revolution. All are in custody.

Sickles, 27, traveled to Michigan five times to train with the Hutaree, prosecutors wrote in a court document filed Tuesday. They wrote that at one of the trainings, in January, he said he wanted to set off a homemade bomb outside the Huron, Ohio, Police Department. In February, they said, he offered to martyr himself in a “suicide by cop,” taking as many officers with him as he could.”

From Cleveland Plain Dealer Wire Services:

“The number of extremist anti-government groups and militias grew from 149 in 2008 to 512 in 2009, said Heidi Beirich, director of research at the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil groups that monitors extremism.”

I think there’s NO BETTER TIME than NOW to air the Timothy McVeigh tapes and closely examine the militia movement’s rise. It’s a shameful dilemna this nation finds itself in, when we WAIT for tragedies to occur, instead of learning from the PAST in attempts to avert them.

–Cobra

Shining a light on these cockaroaches is a great idea, but don’t forget these are not the only deviants that want to destroy the USA.
Linking these miscreants to Americans peacefully exercising their 1st Amendment rights is a political tool that further divides us as a Nation.

Learning from the past? Let’s point that finger at radical Islam also.
Review the You tube above, “dangerous rhetoric” or Americans exercising their 1st Amendment Rights?
Unfortunately it seems to depend on the little letter after one’s name.

Penguin,

You understand that there have been THOUSANDS of detainments and deportations of Muslims from the United States in the past decade, right? My point is that Muslims aren’t the ONLY folks capable of violent extremism. There are plenty of home grown domestic threats with no ties to Islam. Many of them use the CROSS as their symbol…iron, celtic or burning.

–Cobra

I’m sure there are other elements out there that we have no idea about. I agree the Cross can be perverted as any other symbol.

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this ruins my theory that no one watches MSNBC- but I am still happy. I didn’t waste my time watching under achievers gloat and aimlessly point fingers at others.When they leave the room does the average IQ jump., or is that just an optical allusion…