“You can act like a man” Liberals hacks like you Tommy got called out on your lies. Deal with it like a adult instead of a whining p—y (your word right Tommy).

ObamaCare is doing/will do more to kill Medicare/Medicaid than Paul Ryan’s proposal ever could.

Whichever way you slice the factcheck, Ryan’s plan does not END Medicare, so that is a LIE. It is plausibly argued that the ONLY plan that doesn’t end Medicare, due to its inherent and certain insolvency, is the Ryan plan. 

I like this paragraph: 

“The fact that everyone in the world, including Politifact’s own readers, thinks they blew it does not, in and of itself, mean Politifact is wrong. Indeed, the very premise of a fact-check is that facts aren’t subject to a popular vote. What it should do, though, is make them pause to consider that maybe, just maybe, they got this one wrong.”

Defending them for not using ad populum logical fallacy, then turning right around and demonizing the organization for not using it. Double talk anyone?

Nevertheless, I personally find it funny that a man with little to no credibility with his own readers is decrying another organization for serving their purpose, “fact-checking” and not serving nor “subject to a popular vote.”

Heehee.  Tommy’s in a tizzy.  It’s incredibly ironic that someone who writes on a daily basis with their pants on fire is whining about what he perceives as something less than truthful.  But, Politifact is correct on this one despite Tommy using his usual over-the-top rhetoric of “the fact that everyone in the world…”.  No, Tommy, that’s not fact.  You and Mr. Fact have a very strained relationship.  

“conservative National Review ” right! Like conservative Joe Scarburrito and Jeff Glum. Keep swinging Alice.

Most conservatives on this blog have dismissed conclusions reached by Politifact in the past, so the fact they are agreeing with this particular ruling is nothing more than political opportunism.

The fact is, that the stimulus really only saved government jobs in any significant number. It was a failure. I’m sure that as a dedicated liberal progressive it must be a huge embarrassment to see that the cornerstone of your ideology (Keynesian Economics) is an abject failure and fraud. 
Now contrast this with the fact that Republicans are the only party trying to save Medicare. The Democrat position of ignoring it’s insolvency will in fact assure it’s destruction. So in fact, it would be the bigger lie of the year to say that Republicans want to destroy Medicare. 
Wait…it is called Politifact right? Not politi-warped ideolgy?

Politifact has been wrong before, but they don’t generally get called on it because those cases involve Republicans and conservatives.  

And the larger problem with these so-called “fact-checking” sites is that many times the “facts” that they’re passing judgment on are either opinions or interpretations.

 Who gives a fu*k what some random dickheads say about anything? It is not like they know anything we don’t know.

Good one.  That makes up for the ‘Aye of Newt’ pun.

I suppose it’s worth noting that it isn’t “conservative National Review” saying Politifact got it wrong; it’s only poster on their Corner blog, and other posters are disagreeing with him:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286323/re-mediscare-2011-s-lie-year-avik-roy

Sorry, Tommy. I won’t say you’re in “Pants-On-Fire” territory, though; I just chalk it up to your normal fact-checking standards.

Yep. Tommy is an embarrassment in how ridiculously biased he is. He wants to be the next Al Sharpton (a liberal icon) for the left, but he’s not smart enough to qualify.

So we are in an economic crisis, and when Ryan put out a plan (something you’d expect a president to do) the Democrats had no plan of their own and just scored political points criticizing Ryan’s.  There is no easy way out of this economic malaise.  Once Obama gets re-elected and no longer has to worry about his sorry political hide, I’ll bet he has plenty of ideas and won’t be “above the fray.”  In the meantime, he has his apologists fading the heat.

How so?

Another day, another desperate propoganda piece by Tommy Christopher.  Keep repeating your lies Tommy, maybe one day some fool will believe you – its right out of the Goebels playbook.

Politifact has a habit of being more interested in fact checking R’s than they do D’s.  So, when they actually fact check a big D issue it’s worth noting.  

Your argument works the other way also.  There have been numerous rulings that conservatives have found dubious but those rulings didn’t make Tommy’s pee-pee hurt.  

I wonder why Tommy does not bring these issues up…  It seems very dishonest of him, if one studies the projected paths of both Medicare/Medicad and SSI, those two programs alone in out years are projected to consume close to 14% of GDP…  currently Federal Tax receipts are approaching 15.5% of GDP…  It is clear that Both SSI and Medicare will be bankrupted and discarded a long time before this happens unless changes are made to both programs…  why is it that Tommy does not discuss these issues as it is clear that Ryan’s plan is a step in the direction of saving the entitlement programs that the progressive democrats refuse to discuss…. Each year they resend their so called “Doc Fix” that was designed to save the system, and they do this because they know that doctors will simply close their doors to Medicare patients, many already have based on the current rates.  The democratic side of the aisle somehow feels that sticking their heads in the sand and pretending that it is just not happening is somehow not going to end in catastrophe…  It is the Democrats who are lying and the democrats who show no political courage to do what is right for the people of this country.  Currently we are at about 70% privately and foreign held debt to GDP and running Deficits of about 8% of GDP per annum. Our elected officials can not even agree to cut future increases in spending, no less agree to actual spending cuts…  or a tax overhaul that would benefit both the treasury and the economy.  The Bols/Simpson plan calling for both increased revenues and large spending cuts is the first step at correcting this country and our economy, the president and frankly our lame congress disregarded the only good work done by either side of the aisle in years…..  Yet here we a a hypocrite like Tommy fuming over PoliticFact….. this is his third article on this same subject this week!  Can he not report something more substantive?  

Tommy is positively sputtering! Kinda like Barney Frank!

Tommy, you’re talking in circles by trying to explain it too much..basically what is the story?

How so also? Just let insurance companies jack up their rates as high as they want and decide who they should and shouldn’t cover? Funny, why the U.S. is the only industrialized country in the world that profits off of people’s health/.

You’re asking a bagger for facts to back up a claim…Good luck.

Excellent argument, refuting Tommy’s illogical argument, however, I wouldn’t call what the Democrats said a lie. It was a hyperbolic assertion, but, to the extent of a ‘pants on fire’ lie? No. The NRO article was actually fair and dead on in it’s analysis. 

Ryan’s plan does end Medicare.   Medicare is a system where people enroll in a government plans.  Ryan’s plan is a system where people enroll in private plans.  Republicans are too stupid to understand this stuff, no offense.

I disagree. To the extent which the lie was propagated and disseminated, it was wholly deserving of the title “pants on fire.” The lie is, by extension, including “GOP wants to kill Grandma” by ending Medicare.

Had they not been so hyperbolic–if they hadn’t gone so far as to say that the Republicans were ENDING Medicare and therefore wanting to kill your grandparents, it wouldn’t be worthy. But they were–and they did, so they earned it.

This is why nobody takes your side’s argument seriously.

If you’re going to insult Tommy’s intelligence, at least do so constructively and tear apart his fragile arguments like I did.

Medicare is a government-administered health insurance program for seniors.  With Medicare, seniors go to the government for their health insurance needs.

Ryan’s plan is a series of privately administered health insurance programs for seniors.  With Ryan’s plan, seniors go to private insurance companies for their health insurance needs.

Ryan’s plan ends Medicare.  It does not change it at all.   It ends it over time by phasing out qualified applicants.  That is a fact.  There is no debate to be had here.

Please try to remember, Republicans, you have been systematically trained to reject all truth.  They know how stupid you are, so they know they can make you believe ANYTHING.

“This” is why?  What is why?  Because I tell the truth?

Your suppositional “truth” is masqueraded behind a web of deceitful arrogance and ad hominem logical butchery. If you disagree, do so with candor–don’t be a dick about it.

Actually, what you said there is precisely the opposite of the truth.  Please remember that you are a Republican, and all Republicans are systematically trained to believe precisely the opposite of the truth.

I just tell the truth. You are the one weaving “a web of deceitful arrogance and ad hominem logical butchery.” In fact, that’s what you just did.

Please try to remember that you’re a Republican, and all Republicans are systematically trained to believe precisely the opposite of the truth.

ObamaCare pulled $500 billion from the Medicare budgets and transferred it to the ObamaCare system.  According to the Administration this money would not be missed as it would be recovered through more efficient administration of the program and through reducing Medicare fraud and reimbursement rates to providers.  I have not seen any news reports of any actual progress in either the efficiency or in reducing fraud and they keep resending the Doc fix..  

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/19/pf/medicare_proposals.moneymag/index.htm 

Mmhmm. Trolls are cute only when they take themselves as seriously as you do.

I take it you don’t believe that. Have you any facts to back that claim up? Also, you haven’t seen it because much of it hasn’t been enacted yet.

More like Tommy’s blouse is on fire.

You watch, the next time Politifact nails Mitt or Newt, these leftist tools will all be citing them in their shabby blog postings.

I am not sure what claim you are referring to, I linked an article so that you could read about the budgetary cuts and see that it is not just a popular republican rumor…  other than that if you look at CBO reports medicare is in trouble and the program will need an intervention if it is to remain solvent.  CBO reports are somewhat hard to muddle through as many of their projections are often based on proposed changes to law that quite often don’t take place, a good example of which is the doc fix. But you can still get a good idea of what is going on with both SSI and Medicare/Medicad by reading their reports….  I might recommend a bottle of aspirin if you actually decide to read them..  LOL.

It’s privatizing Medicare not ending it. Medicare still covers those premiums. This allows for the benefits of lower private sector overhead costs, coupled with public sector subsidies.

You tool.

IT does end medicare as we know it. It’s a inadequate voucher program.TO SAY OTHERWISE IS A BOLD FACE LIE.Politifact got it wrong, and if they don’t retract this lie they will lose all credability.

Tommy is really trying to say that it is journalisms responsibility to serve the public. 

Certainly there was a time for that, but today’s journalists serve POTUS, their god; they do not speak truth and fact to the public, they defend hehimself.

Suggesting “serving the public” on this board is laughtastic.

According to your logic, if the Broncos trade Tim Tebow to the Jets, he will still be a Bronco because he will still be playing football.

Medicare is a government health insurance program. That’s what it is. It’s not something else.

My word, my house. Buh-bye.

It’s not double-talk to say that they should not change their stance based solely on widespread criticism, but that they should consider the merits of that criticism.

Trevor

The Ryan plan, which you haven’t read, does not enroll people in private plans, it’s s system of premium support. Your side’s arguments are now so laughable that I don’t know why you don’t just drop it and slink away, defeated…

It will continue to be so, but with a system of premium support to try and prevent it from going BROKE, which is what will happen if your logic prevails.

Name calling. Ignored.

Name calling. Ignored.

Umm… The phrase “premium support” means premium support for private plans.

Please try to understand that these people are making a fool of you. I’m not the one doing that.

Wow-  look at you with an axe to grind with Tommy, going from story to story posting your bad feelings about Tommy.  Here’s a solution moron…leave.  Why would you subject yourself to such a bad site if you hate it?  Sounds like you’ve got some brain disorder or you’re hot for Tommy…your pick!

Fact: If nobody does anything about Medicare, it WILL go broke.

Fact: Any plan to prevent that happening is preferable to simply waiting for it to go broke.

Fact: Ryan has the only serious plan, and the criticism is coming from people who have NO PLAN

Fact: Democrats favor Medicare going broke over a plan that involves the private sector (which creates all the jobs, the meals you eat, the clothes you wear, the TV you watch, the hotels you stay in, the gadgets you own, everything). 

The animus toward the private sector is pathological, because….gasp….someone might make a PROFIT providing goods and services that people want……OHHHHH NOOOOOEES.

But you didn’t say that, did you?

Saving medicare by destroying it with vouchers and the poison pill of prescription plan D.Your perception of reality is beyond flawed.

How? That isn’t the logic at hand.

It’s more like NFL profit-sharing if you want to go that route. The NFL collects a substantial amount of money from the league’s business as a whole, and re-distributes it to the teams for them to do with it what they will.

So you don’t understand health care or football. You keep getting dumber the more you post.

Now you’re saying that Coke is Pepsi because people drink both Coke and Pepsi.

Try to think for yourself. You don’t have to be a Republican all you life. You can be anything.

What the hell are you talking about? Those are two seperate corporations.

This is the same damn entitlement distributed in a different (and more efficient) manner.

It must suck to be clueless about foreign policy.

I didn’t say it made it meritorious, I said it made it worthy of considering the merits. ”
What it should do, though, is make them pause to consider that maybe, just maybe, they got this one wrong.” 

I also said they’ve shown little aptitude for this, and they still don’t, by virtue of the fact that they haven’t responded to the merits of any of their critics’ arguments. Instead, they have, as I said in the above piece, tried to cast the criticism as purely partisan.

What’s the point? When a howler monkey wants to fling poo at conservatives, do you really think that a conversation on the perils and uselessness of poo-slinging will be an effective deterrent?

Sometimes, the only rational response is to fling poo in return. That just may be the only method of communication that gets through to the journalistic poo-slinger.

Oh how the liberals loved Politifact before they dared to step off the plantation.  They’ll learn.  Politifact was propped up by the liberal media intelligencia so that it could take marching orders, not so it would begin thinking for itself.  That’s a no-no.  I bet it won’t be winning another Pulitzer Prize anytime soon; those awards are for the media that spouts the talking points without editing them (or, god forbid, disregarding them altogether).

What is the preferred terminology, if not REPUBLICAN?

lol

Yeah, the Repugs are known for wanting Medicare right? Fought tooth and nail did they? The FACT is that Medicare isn’t the problem, but H/C increasing twice as fast as inflation for 20+ years!

Of course as usual the Repugs/CONservatives ignore reality and create their own! ‘save Medicare”? lol

Fact: NO PROBLEM WITH MEDICARE

Fact: Problems are that H/C costs are and have risen twice as fast as inflation for 20+ years

CONservatives/Repugs solution: Have the private sector take more money from seniors. HaHaHa

The self created reality (Progressives call it myths) that “markets” created TV,hotels, jobs, etc leaves out the important value that government gave towards those things (hint: Roads, NASA, gov funding during PRE WW2 AND SINCE on those “free markets”) Of course in CONservative world government only takes, doesn’t provide the system that creates that market. But EVERY government sets the rules to an economy, unfortunately the last 30 years it’s worked for the top 1% over the bottom 99%!

Who’s watching the watchers?

LOL

Economic crisis? You mean Dubya’s great recession? Or H/C costs rising twice as fast as inflation for 20+ years?

On the crisis on the economy? He stopped Dubya and the Repugs great job losses that were costing US 700,000 jobs a month when he came in (and 4+ million the first 7 months of 2009) AND had the US economy contract by 8%+ in Dec 2008.. If you haven’t noticed, the Repugs have made defeating Obama their #1 goal since the day after the 2010 midterms!

Poster? You mean columnist right?

I think the point being made is that if you change it so that it looks nothing like it does now and doesn’t work at all in the same way, calling it medicare doesn’t count.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/politifact-lie-of-the-year_n_1160576.html

Benefits of lower overhead costs? Than Medicare that is 15%-20% cheaper than the “free markets”?

You wingers and your up is down and left is right BS!

Yep, nothing like costs being driven twice as fast as inflation for 20+ years is the problem right? It’s just broke?

You mean the SAME money that Ryans plan does the same with?

That’s not exactly what happened. He’s saying
“You’re not wrong just because lot’s of people say you are,  but lot’s of people saying you are is a good reason to double check your work”
and that’s correct.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-froomkin/politifact-lie-of-the-year_b_1163268.html

this article suggests they were so concerned about being often critisized for thier liberal bias , that they over compensated.

Yeah, that cash for clunkers program really turned things around.

Except you didn’t. He did not do what you claimed he did.

Yes, Medicare is in trouble, BECAUSE the US is the only industrialized nation with a for profit system where costs have risen twice as fast as inflation for 20+ years!

SS “problem” can be fixed by moving the tax withheld from $106,000 today, to $250,000 and index for inflation. Problem solved FOREVER!

Medicare? Get off this “free market” system that extracts profits over people, where every other nation does it for about half the costs! Of course that would mean guys like Bill McGuire can’t retire with pay of $1.78 BILLION for running an insurance Corp! 

Isn’t Druggie or Beckie on somewhere for you to create your facts with?

Yes, Government is always the answer isn’t it? LOL.

I was asking if you had any reports that mony will be missed and it won’t be recovered by reducing medicare fraud. I know SS and medicare are in trouble, but it has to do more with our government using loopholes to spend it, instead of saving it.

But what was the cost  versus invading Iraq? Medicare part D that Dubya and the Repugs didn’t fund? Unfunded offsets on tax cuts? Or the bailouts?

No, Obama isn’t a miracle worker, 8 years of Dubya isn’t going to be turned around overnight, especially when the Repugs are working against US!

Medicare is going to be in trouble regardless unless laws are changed, something must be done, maybe a combination of means testing and raising the income level of the cut off.. As far as Social Security goes… if the trust were real and not worthless securities(non-marketable) then maybe the system would not face the pressures that I think it would soon face in the near term. I have not seen any articles or reports specifically outlining how the loss of funds will directly impact medicare other than laws passed but not fully implemented to curb the expenses of Medicare which the government says will address the loss of funds from the program… mostly the government looks to lower the reimbursements that it pays to providers… that $500 billion extends over a 10 year period.

They loved the first two Lies of the Year, didn’t they? What they missed is that Politifact is confused about the whole thing. They’re not supposed to be telling the Lie of the Year. But they do.

They loved the first two Lies of the Year, didn’t they? What they missed is that Politifact is confused about the whole thing. They’re not supposed to be telling the Lie of the Year. But they do.

Why did the government start Medicare in the first place? Could it be because private insurers would not insure them? Let’s face it – healthcare costs for those over 65 are generally higher than the younger population. The Ryan Plan wants to use private vouchers. Okay. Can you guarantee me when I am 65 that there will be a private insurance company willing to cover me with a host of pre-existing conditions? I can’t get one to cover me now at the age of 45. Flawed plan, in my opinion.

Yeah, everyone else in the world who works in health care does it for free!

But “If you like your plan, you can keep it!”

Who does that apply to, and for how long?

Quit your freaking whining Tommy.  You sound like a little girl.  Everyone knows you will go to your grave defending this failed president and his policies.  Get over it.  If you think it is bad now, I can hardly wait to see your reaction next November when the dems lose all power.  

Since it’s not a column, no, I don’t.

Medicare was created before the current HMO system started after the passing of the Health Maintenance Organization Act in 1973.

I made this following comment yesterday:

“LOL…Now that’s a very fascinating statement to make about the left-wing politician’s and liberal media’s favorite source of “facts” on virtually every issue they try to shove down the throats of America’s liberal leaning 20% like you KoreanTrevor. Apparently Politifact is only accurate to you left-wing nuts when their fact findings(and opinions) are in favor of your arguments or narrative. The likes of Jon Stewart and the liberal media(including blogosphere) might have to ignore this finding too or even attack/ridicule Politifact; until the next “pant-on-fire” or “false” rating against Republicans or Conservatives that will be touted boastfully as usual by the left-wing politicians and their media allies.

So apparently your favorite source of facts Politifact is not that factual of an organization, considering the prefix(Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checking website) the left likes to use when making reference to their “fact” findings….LOL

I’ll wait till you lunatics start quoting or making reference to Politifact once again, especially after every Republican debate or deliberation in Congress.”

———————–

And left-wing media hacks like Tommy Christopher have proven me right within a 24 hour time frame. Tommy now implies that Politifact are not a credible source of “facts” after all, since they dared to stand against the left-wing narrative and demagoguery, by actually exposing it. Before they used to be the left’s favorite source for Democrat and liberal media talking points, but now according to Tommy they are Politi-f**ked….???

You guys have absolutely no shame…lol

Which, in the context provided, means exactly the same thing. An analogy for you: just because a group of people run down the street yelling there’s zombies afoot, yet call you stupid, wrong, and irresponsible for not just taking their word for it when you will obviously ask them for proof, it doesn’t mean there’s zombies afoot.

If you have a beef with them, point it out logically and don’t rely on sheer quantitative appeal to make some case–something of which your argument here was largely based upon.

No, it’s not. See my example to Tommy, above.

If lots and lots of people are coming up with the same answer with rational, logical appeal, then it’s time to look at what the deal is. But, just because mass quantities of people say something, it doesn’t mean it’s worth a damn.

Except I did and you’re misunderstanding the same basic concepts of logical fallacy that he is.

They’ve lost any credibility they might have on this one. The decision is mind bugling. 

That’s true, but logical rational arguments have been made. Clear explanations have been offered to demonstrate why Politifact is incorrect and they have yet to deal with the speicifics of the arguments.
It isn’t just a quantity of people saying they are wrong. It’s people offering sound reasoning and logical arguments.

The fact that some democrats used hyperboyle as a poltical scare tactic doesn’t make the basic argument a lie, much less lie of the year.

I think I understand your point perfectly and it’s a correct one. Sheer numbers does not make an argument have merit. That’s true. A lot of people saying “we disagree” doesn’t mean anything if that’s all they’re offereing.

That’s not what TC is saying, A lot of people sayong they disgree should warrent a look at their arguments if they have any. The proper response would be, “where is the evidence of zombies being afoot” rather than ignoring them. Politifact isn’t dealing with reaonable logical arguments being offered. That was his point.

Politfact does what their name implies it will do, play politics with the facts, which pleases liberals to no end. As long as their ‘facts’ align with the liberal ‘opinion’, all is well.

Wrong again. They are paid by the government. Just like the FBI, police, on and on. And it must be working because our healthcare is ranked not only very low compared to all of those countries but it costs us (the taxpayer) a helluva alot more too.

And yet the rich and powerful who need major medical services come to America for them. Hmmmm…..

Very few people. It’s bullshit, mostly.

Just deleted politfact from my bookmarks.

Major medical services that almost no Americans can afford to have for themselves. Do you really think that the same doctors and the same procedures foreign heads of state receive are actually obtainable by the average American? Our health care system is great for the rich and powerful. It stinks for the poor and destitute.

And THAT is the argument that should have been focused on in Tommy’s hitpiece.

But he didn’t. You may focus upon what he’s TRYING to say, but I’m focusing upon what he DID say.

That is what he said, down to its very core. If he were making the indicatively logical appeal–that is, explaining said logic before appealing, then explaining how the mass quantity of people is pointing that out–he would have had a much better argument.

But, he didn’t.

He said ”The fact that everyone in the world, including Politifact’s own readers, thinks they blew it does not, in and of itself, mean Politifact is wrong. Indeed, the very premise of a fact-check is that facts aren’t subject to a popular vote. What it should do, though, is make them pause to consider that maybe, just maybe, they got this one wrong.”

In laymen’s terms, he said that everybody thinks they’re wrong ergo, they might not be wrong, but because everybody thinks they’re wrong, it’s worth reconsidering despite the fact that fact-checking is not subject to popularity.

If ad populum appeal alone does not apply to being correct/incorrect, then it has no merit in being solely applied, as he did in his argument, to a reconsideration of being correct, which is, in essence, a derivative of correctness/incorrectness.

Wow, this one’s really got you going, doesn’t it, Tommy?

Come to think of it, Tommy, you might want to have a look at what “The Corner” is: it’s a blog with a bunch of individuals posting individual opinions.  So claiming Verbrueggen’s link as saying “even NRO says Politifact was wrong”, ignoring the fact that he was responding to another post approvingly noting the Politifact choice http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286280/mediscare-2011s-lie-year-tevi-troy
seems a bit questionable.  Why, it might even seem like a lie.

Wow – what rationalization…the government gives value????  LOL!! What a joke!  The government TAKES MONEY FROM THE PRIVATE CITIZEN and SECTOR IN ORDER TO DO ANYTHING.  The government makes nothing and gives nothing that was not already taken from others.

Looks to me that not too many are buying into this story on how wrong Politifacts was….rather how wrong and biased this story is.

so when it dogs republicans it is OKY DOKY but when it criticizes dems gotta pull the plug….  interseting

my god, how juvenile.  slayer?  oh please…just another loser repeating ten year old daily kos insults.  lame

Need I say more?  Thank you MichaelJKeane.

Nice attempt at diversion, but nobody is claiming that the level of medical care available to the rich and powerful is the problem. As MJK said, it’s the rest of us who are hurting. Maybe there’s a reason that you think “Bill Gates gets such and such quality of care” has anything to do with what I receive, but I have no idea what it is.

I run a “Hamburger” stand in which I sell people portions of my own poop smeared on buns. I call them Hamburgers though, and Politifact not only agrees with me but says people who say I’m selling crap sandwiches are the Liars of the Year.

That clear enough?

What’s it like living in a world of made-up facts? Here on Earth Medicare’s overhead is about 1/8 that of the private sector.

“coupled with public sector subsidies.”

Oh, so we can take tax money and shovel it directly into the pockets of healthcare CEOs? What a great idea!

Ryan’s vouchers wouldn’t keep up with the cost of healthcare inflation. Yes, denying elderly people healthcare is a great way to save money on healthcare. Most of us don’t want to live in that kind of country.

“same damn entitlement”

Wrong. The current scheme is one that guarantees medical care to all seniors (and to many disabled people below the regular Medicare age as well). The Ryan version guarantees a certain level of voucher support, but if that subsidy isn’t enough to pay for a policy the Ryan plan says you can suck it.

If you can’t tell the difference between guaranteed coverage and a guarantee of a subsidy that may or may not be enough to buy coverage it might be time to stop talking down your nose to people.

I stole my neighbor’s Mercedes and replaced it with an old golf cart. Before I did so, I broke off the Mercedes hood ornament and trunk badge and glued them to the golf cart. Then I parked it in my neighbor’s driveway.

Politifact agrees that my neighbor’s Mercedes is still there, and have named the local Police Department Liars of the Year for charging me with GTA.

“We’ve read the critiques and see nothing that changes our findings. We stand by our story and our conclusion that the claim was the most significant falsehood of 2011. We made no judgments on the merits of the Ryan plan; we just said that the characterization by the Democrats was false.Our competitors FactCheck.org and the Washington Post’s FactChecker had also said the Medicare claim was false — and this week both picked it for their biggest-falsehoods-of-the-year lists.”

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/22/fact-checking-echo-chamber-nation/ 

But the truth didn’t stop Democrats from misrepresenting the proposal shamelessly to scare senior citizens and win election votes.  

http://factcheck.org/2011/12/the-whoppers-of-2011/ 

We stand with our colleagues at Politifact and Factcheck.org on this one. As we noted at the time, “there’s certainly a worthwhile debate about whether the Medicare changes proposed by Ryan would help or hurt Medicare, and whether too much of a burden would be shifted to beneficiaries.” But that does not mean “killing” Medicare. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-biggest-pinocchios-of-2011/2011/12/21/gIQAzbzFAP_blog.html?wprss=fact-checker 

Just follow the money.

You’ll quickly learn that PolitHack has been receiving big donations from corporations who also support the Paul Ryan “kill medicare” plan

Follow the money. 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it turn down corporate payola.

PolitiHacked was delivering quid pro quo in exchange for corporate “donations”

Ronald Reagansucked:

Actually, you would need to eat the hamburger and then poop it out before your claim would be verified by PolitiHacks.

BTW, what’s a “people portion”?

Actually, instead of the government paying the bill to the private provider, you will be sent a voucher for a set amount.

In the present system, if the government refuses to pay the hospital bill in full, the hospital must eat the cost (ie reduce its costs to the level medicare will pay).

In the new system, if your voucher doesn’t cover what the PRIVATE COMPANY dictates, then YOU will be responsible for paying the rest.

That means there will be absolutely NO incentive for private companies to reduce costs. Instead they’ll hire more lawyers and bill collectors, and pass that cost on to you as well.

You are living in a corporate utopian dream world.

Actually, instead of the government paying the bill to the private provider, you will be sent a voucher for a set amount.In the present system, if the government refuses to pay the hospital bill in full, the hospital must eat the cost (ie reduce its costs to the level medicare will pay).In the Ryan Plan, if your voucher doesn’t cover what the PRIVATE COMPANY dictates, then YOU will be responsible for paying the rest.That means there will be absolutely NO incentive for private companies to reduce costs. Instead they’ll hire more lawyers and bill collectors, and pass that cost on to you as well.

Wrong. What did you pull that nugget out of?

Actually, instead of the government paying the bill to the private provider, you will be sent a voucher for a set amount.In the present system, if the government refuses to pay the hospital bill in full, the hospital must eat the cost (ie reduce its costs to the level medicare will pay).In the Ryan Plan, if your voucher doesn’t cover what the PRIVATE COMPANY dictates, then YOU will be responsible for paying the rest.That means there will be absolutely NO incentive for private companies to reduce costs. Instead they’ll hire more lawyers and bill collectors, and pass that cost on to you as well. 

Wrong. What did you pull that nugget out of?
Actually, instead of the government paying the bill to the private provider, you will be sent a voucher for a set amount.In the present system, if the government refuses to pay the hospital bill in full, the hospital must eat the cost (ie reduce its costs to the level medicare will pay).In the Ryan Plan, if your voucher doesn’t cover what the PRIVATE COMPANY dictates, then YOU will be responsible for paying the rest.That means there will be absolutely NO incentive for private companies to reduce costs. Instead they’ll hire more lawyers and bill collectors, and pass that cost on to you as well.