I think apology is a bit mush. But I do think Obama and his administration should correct a lot of things they said during their 2008 campaign considering the actions that he is taking now.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if one of these reporters could get Eric Holder or someone from the Administration and actually read their rhetoric back to them and then ask them to account for it? 

Also, does anyone else remember the days when a DOJ review of a robust counter terrorism action wasn’t exactly THE definitive word from on high for the media and Bush critics?.  

You know….the days…when specific  people in the DOJ weren’t merely cherrypicked for their particular legal views, but also vetted for the singular corruption that it took to harbor those views in the first place.

The difference now from the media and the majority of former Bush critics is breathtaking.

LOL is this a joke?

Cheney’s right.

This shit is a joke right? No can’t be, cause I watched when he said it. It’s not that Cheney has a weak heart; it’s that he’s got no soul.

First DICK you should apologize for help taking us into the Iraq war…………… Enough with long press tour….   

Obama could apologize in the form of his resignation. Apology accepted.

Waterboarding is not torture? What does that have to do with the drone attack anyways?

Somebody tell this 4 time deferment coward … that it is his sorry administration that needs to apologize for
1) their total incompetence… blowing off warnings that led to 9/11
2) never killing bin laden
3) f**king useless war in Iraq

Did You ever hear Obama promise no drone strikes?

Whoa…

F#$% Dick Cheney… There is your apology.

its just funny you are against torture as you call it on terrorist, but for murder of terrorist

so how did bush *not* overreact to the events of 9.11?

really curious to hear your answer.

interesting to hear cjdohio calls drone strikes “murder”

what a lefty!  or ron paul libertarian……not sure now

Let’s see Obama inherited two of the three longest, most poorly managed wars in American history. Enough said. No apology necessary. 

If 9/11 was an act of war, and thus killing American citizens is reasonable, then the implication must be that WE are all ‘warriors,’ now. Maybe we have always been soldiers from a realpolitiks standpoint, but most of us like to cling to our naive conceptions of ourselves as ‘innocent.’ Cheney, Bush, and Obama, are helping us all realize where we really stand: in a state of permanent, all inclusive, all consuming war. Me against you, Me against BOA, the airlines, Al Queda, my employer, Pablo, 2012Freedom etc. etc.

Instead of the world’s “We are all Americans, now” which suggested that the events were criminal, in nature, and unified civilians all over the world, now we are all soldiers–and thus reasonable targets.

Does that seem like good policy?

and boy, that softball crowley interview

our intrepid beltway media!  oh so LIBERAL!

No question, Cheney is absolutely correct. The Community Agitator should apologize.  While Barry is,  Durbin, Kerry and usual Socialist suspects all should be ready to apologize as well for their treasonous comments during war. How’s that GITMO thing workin’ out Libs?

Are you defending the Bush doctrine? Do you approve of torture? Waterboarding is torture. The US has had WWII Japanesse soilders under trial for war crimes in the past doing the same thing.The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols are
international treaties that contain the most important rules limiting the
barbarity of war including waterboarding!  Has the Obama adminastration ever waterboarded anyone? To compare this with a drone strike is just deflection. Bush and chenney did not do their job and Obama is now doing it.This is a jealous  resentment against a Obama’s success. Sour Grapes. 

RedState?Tea Party Express? Fox News? Where in the world did you find propaganda smearing this DOJ? For heavens sake, Bush’s Department of Justice put forward legislation to approve TORTURE. Bush and Cheney can’t even leave the country anymore. And you’re stating that this DOJ is worse than its predecessor? 

and your call drones strikes what……questioning and a trial?

Apologize from the Supreme court allowing you (Dick) to  be VP should be a required apology that is overdue. 

I’ve never understood how he dodged the draft six times yet he is so quick to send other men to war. It must be because he really does have no soul.

I’m confused.  Isn’t it Cheney and his ilk who have accused the President of being soft on terrorism and exposing the country to danger?  And then he turns around and accomplishes everything they couldn’t?

It’s clear an apology is owed, but it seems that it should probably go the other way.

I’m confused.  Isn’t it Cheney and his ilk who have accused the President of being soft on terrorism and exposing the country to danger?  And then he turns around and accomplishes everything they couldn’t?

It’s clear an apology is owed, but it seems that Cheney is a bit confused as to which direction it should go.

Gitmo?

There’s a bit of a distinction to be had – “murder” is a necessary fact of war, torture isn’t.

Ha.  Hasn’t it been Cheney and his ilk who have slammed Obama for exposing the country to danger, right as he turns around and accomplishes everything they couldn’t?

And doesn’t it seem that Cheney and his ilk should correct EVERYTHING they’ve claimed about the president being weak on security, considering his ability to accomplish everything they failed at?

and we gunned down japanese sailors in the water after we sunk their ships, you know why we weren’t charged with war crimes…..we won

Apparently, while in your irrational liberal cloud of hate for Cheney, you did not hear what he said. He said what Barry did was good.  You did hear that, right?  You missed his entire point.  Go back and listen to it again.  No need for a follow up comment either.

Apparently, while in your irrational liberal cloud of hate for Cheney,
you did not hear what he said. He said what Barry did was good.  You did
hear that, right?  You missed his entire point.  Go back and listen to
it again.  No need for a follow up comment either.

in your eyes i guess, but atleast darla was against both so i will give her credit for that.   killing american citizens is a tricking subject dont you think?

You sound like a proud American!

IAs I said earlier my dear, Sour grapes!

Yes there is no need to follow up with you… You wouldn’t understand it.

just pointing out a flaw in your logic……history is written by the victors

F**K dick cheney, the Son of a Bitch is a War criminal!!!

While Clifford Elisary is merely a common criminal . As a drug dealer , carjacker , thief and smut peddler , Cliff is unmatched. however , the next time this son of a bitch is locked up , it will be for good .

Obama is the war criminal..

It was a back-handed compliment. Do you know what that is? Do you know what a  back-handed compliment is?

skyfet sucking up in his own illiterate way trying to land a job at Obama’s OFC restaurant franchise , if one comes to his village .

And properly disclosed by the scholars.

Broad….Oh?  Don’t think so.  Why not have lilly ‘splain himself?

Give it a shot….Libs are Ignorant.

Dumb Mistake Obama made. He should have never signed a law to close Gitmo, Or he should have closed it after he did. One or the other. Gitmo is a “no win” situation for any president at this point.

I’m proud of my could of hate for Cheney…

cjd–

geneva conventions, convention against torture

what say you?

Dick Cheney needs to apologise for being the final plague facing human existence. He has fubared Planet Earth.

And….Obama is continuing the policy of….. “Rendition” ………Is that really any different than the so-called “torture” policies of Bush?

The ONLY difference………We have foreign agencies doing our  “dirty” work for us!

BTW- I am all FOR the use of water-boarding and other means of extracting information…..

And Al Gore has fabricated evidence and ignored all other sources of possible damage to the environment.

Has Cheney apologized yet for tossing out the intelligence that undercut the rationale for going to war in Iraq?

I don’t think so.

Cheney needs to apologize to all those Americans that died from his made up war.  He’s the real war criminal. 

You mean the Dem intel about WMDs in Iraq. Why did Clinton, Pelsoi, Kerry, etc. say that?

Yes the CIA took out that guy. Barry, do you want to put those CIA operatives on trial like those other CIA operatives or is it different since YOU were president when they did this?

Obama was right that there was an over-reaction on the part of the Bush administration.  the fact is, Cheney wanted the oil in Iraq and Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 although Cheney and his war-mongering friends tried to sell that lie to the American people.  It worked just long enough for the idiots to get over 4,000 of our men and women killed and they sent thousands more to Walter Reed when they failed to supply them with armour to protect themselves.
Who in the world would even listen to this evil man any more?

First, start with the Dems:

“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” – President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” – President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

“Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.” – Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” – Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” – Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” – Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.” – Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

“There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” – Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

Had we taken any of those sailors as prisoners of war (POWS), we would have had to abide by the Geneva Convention agreement which says no torturing of prisoners.  And, waterboarding is torture along with a lot of the other methods engaged by the Bush administration.  In fact, we don’t really know how many deaths their torture methods caused because they were at Gitmo.  I’m sure there are records somewhere in some person’s memory of who died and how.  Someday it will come out.
When you have someone like John McCain say it is torture, there is no other validation necessary.  Which of course brings up the subject of Rick Santorum’s remarks to John McCain that “McCain simply doesn’t know how torture works”.

He wasn’t a “4 Time deferment coward” – he was a SIX time deferement coward.,

love you logic….had we taken any of those sailors……we didnt….we killed them in the water, which is far better than torture…..wow

Gee, how would you like to die? Be shot in the head or pushed off the Sears tower?

He didn’t “toss it out”.   He believed what most leaders  (including Pres. Clinton who had access to intelligence for 8 years prior) that Iraq had WMD.

Sorting through intelligence isn’t as straight forward as mathematics.  It isn’t an exact science.  To suggest that in the process of doing that, elected leaders bring their own selves with all the perspectives built up over years in office, is to suggest NOTHING that should be surprising and nothing that is sensational.  

Neither is the fact that they ultimately answer for it. To imply that the process was somehow corrupt or criminal  (rather than misguided… wrong…whatever…) has more to do with sentiments that defy logic and  that are generally applied one-sidely depending upon partisanship.

Just on the face of it, that comment smacks of idiocy.

You might try reading the piece.

Cheney congratulated Pres. Obama and backed up the DOJ’s arguments for targeting an American citizen terrorist in the way that Democrats in the past have NOT.

Again, I well remember the days when DOJ attorneys arugin such matters on behalf of the Bush Administration were not only cherrypicked.for agreement…. but picked BECAUSE they were corrupt. 

I also remember when the whole concept of the U.S. president having the sort of constitutionally inveighed power that it takes to give such orders, was in hot dispute as well.  Rather torture or holding Americans citizens outside of the regular judicial system.  Let alone targeting them for extermination.

Cheney’s point was that from Gitmo to wiretapping. to “don’t capture alive” edicts, the Obama administration has not lived up to its past arguments evoking the necessity for due process, trials, and the housing of terrorist captures in prison systems on North American soil.

The question is, why is Cheney being asked about this, rather than the people who made such arguments?

Rather, it was—  glad you see it our way….good job… now what were you saying?….

That’s debatable. 

If it’s okay for a political administration to arbitrarily target an American citizen for extermination for spreading terrorist propaganda, because they are so helpful to the enemy’s cause, why is non-lethal waterboarding wrong in order to extract vital info from a few highly significant captures?

What the Obama Administration did is something unprecedented too. 

You called the action wrong just the other day because due process was thwarted.

This due process stuff has been the argument of YOU GUYS for the past eight years.

Just out of curiosity, by your own argument, what do you term the act of targeting and killing an American without trial even in absentia.

Is that sort of power inherent in the office of the presidency?   (Which is what neocons argued in the first place.)

And why didn’t Clinton invade Iraq?  

notice how almost all of those quotes are 1999 and prior…..

Actually, I watched the segment.  

Cheney hardly congratulated Obama, and only did as an opening into criticizing him some more.

Actually, the Bush Administrated not only captured Abu Zubaydah, but the info they got from waterboarding him led to the capture of  Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the “architect of 9.11″.    George Tenet stated that info obtained from both terrorists gave us info on other terrorist plots.

Both these men SURVIVED waterboarding.  American Anwar al-Awlaki is dead.

No, I’m wondering why someone with your opinions would NOW be so credulous toward the DOJ (not to mention any elected official) when it comes to the justification for targeting an American citizen.

By all means he is!
In the words of G. W. Bush.  He regrets the mistakes he made.
These are just a few:

PRESIDENT BUSH:)

Look, I have often said that history will look back and determine that which
could have been done better or, you know, mistakes I made. Clearly, putting a
“mission accomplished” on a (sic) aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the
wrong message. We were trying to say something differently, but, nevertheless,
it conveyed a different message. Obviously, some of my rhetoric has been a
mistake.

I’ve thought long and hard about Katrina; you know, could I have done
something differently, like land Air Force One either in New Orleans or Baton
Rouge. The problem with that and — is that law enforcement would have been
pulled away from the mission. And then your questions, I suspect, would have
been, “How could you possibly have flown Air Force One into Baton Rouge, and
police officers that were needed to expedite traffic out of New Orleans were
taken off the task to look after you?” I believe that running the Social
Security idea right after the ’04 elections was a mistake. I should have —
should have argued for immigration reform>”

Except that the “drone” way is not your way – that would be recklessly invading countries without any thought of the potential consequences. 

Didn’t you tell me not to?

Yea, I approve of waterboarding for high profile terrorists.  Not solely as a decision by a particular administration, but something that would require an intelligence committee of sorts.

Frankly, people survive waterboarding and no one has suggested waterboarding American citizens…

Pres. O is protecting our country for us…the people.   I hope people here know that.  He doesn’t have to start big wars like the Bushies did, phony at that. 

Dick “Deficits don’t matter” Cheney  will get an apology the day he gets down on his knees and apologizes to the families of all the troops he sent to to die in an unnecessary Iraq war based on a lie.

It’s not “jealous resentment” Voltman to ask the same people who for more than eight years have made charges of immense corruption and indignant arguments against the sort presidential power (as argued now by the DOJ) and recently wielded by the president, to account for the difference NOW.

 to quote Hannity:
“Why do you attack our commander-in-chief in a time of war? Why do you hate the troops so much?”

Republicans Take Offense to Obama’s Competence Because It Shows Them Up for What They Are.

Dick Cheney has the gall to speak against our President. He should thank his lucky stars that both he and G. W. haven’t been tried…yet…for war crimes.

Aside,  Pres. O has approved additional security detail/ to guard Cheney at the taxpayers expense.  Does Mr. Cheney know how to be thankful and keep his mouth shut when he should?  Obviously, NOT.

I remember when Bin Laden was killed and how the relics came out to remind us how great Bush was.  Bush.  He disbanded the team he had to find Bin Laden years ago, yet somehow bush was responsible for killing Bin Laden. 

Damn you people dont give up. 

If that’s what you call going into Afghanistan a month after 9/11 and into Iraq almost 2 years later (after going before the U.N. and getting approval from congress)

Again, the sole case made by the Obama administration against Anwar al-Awlaki was that he was damaging the U.S. in recruiting terrorists and that the details could not be publicly addressed due to national security.

Remember AG Holder argued that terrorists need to be treated within our judicial system as any other criminal and that processes could be erected to protect national security in these sorts of trials

It’s astounding to now hear that the president does hold the sort of war time power that progressives had long argued against.

ACTUALLY….not just argued against… but vehemently charged as being the vehicle through which the Bush Administrated sought to strip away constitutional rights on NON-citizens frist and citizens to come.

well is seems to you torture is bad, but  a shot to the head is OK

Again, if you read the piece… Cheney congratulated the president on robustly prosecuting the war against terrorism.

Shouldn’t THAT make your saintly liberal heart shudder…

Yes, the Obama campaign did initially criticize predator drone attacks as being fraught with collateral damage. 

After they got into office and faced the job of killing or rounding up prisoners for Gitmo (which they had promised to close), the predator attacks became “surgical” under THEIR military, with little to no civilian casualties. 

A claim disputed by some human rights groups.

You’ll have to  make the same claim for the NSA wiretapping of American citizens talking to terrorists overseas. 

That was another policy that under Bush was to herald the end of habeas corpus and life as we know it… but was kept by the Obama Administration, with only an occasional squawk by a columnist for The Nation on a slow news week.

You guys have YEARS of hyperbolic rhetoric to explain. 

Enough with the ‘inherited’ already, he wouldn’t have been George W’s choice of beneficiary. Obama spent two years and in excess of 750 million dollars campaigning for his position; he got it, he owns it.

Well, I suppose that such interpretations are as subjective as the issue of just what presidents do have broad constitutional powers to wage war…

THAT answer very much seems to depend on political party in some circles.

Yes.   Yours…

Well, then THAT answer (as superfluous and moot as it is) should continue to stand NOW too, should it not?

You did seem to be just fine that the president the gave the order to send the American military into Pakistan (“with or without permission” from that govt) in order to shoot Bin Laden.

We did recently make strikes in Libya.

 I”m for both.   So is Cheney.

Mind giving us some credit for that?…

You posted this drivel yesterday and I corrected you, apparently you didn’t bother to go back and read that thread.  I find it interesting that in all the years the information has been out there you haven’t bothered to learn the truth, leads me to believe all the other dubious factoids you want to throw out will be just as faulty.

Bush did not disband Alec Station, the CIA restructured the Counter Terrorist Center and reassigned the agents to other areas because the mission changed.  Their focus of finding bin Laden never changed and it had nothing to do with Bush.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washington/04intel.html

So your ok with torture as long as it’s not a American? BTW torture/waterboarding did not get any intel.

Obama’s campaign rhetoric and his early misteps led to him being considered weak on security by Cheney and many others.  Closing GITMO, trying terrorist masterminds on American soil, moving terrorists to the United States, threatening CIA agents with prosecution, nixing the missile defense sheild for Poland, etc.  Then Obama found out you have to wear big boy pants when dealing with terrorists but he has gone from one extreme to another.

IMO, I think he’s been to heavy handed with the drone attacks and we will eventually suffer repercussions.  As I said before, he’s kicking a hornets nest and we will eventually pay for it. 

We now have a world wide alert, American citizens traveling abroad are under threat of retalliation, that would be expected with the two high value hits.  But prior to that, the drones have taken out innocent civilians and have caused major angst for Pakistan’s and Yemen’s governments, Afghanistan’s as well, hundreds of hellfire missiles have been lobbed.  The Arab Fall they would experience would not be what the world wants.

If oil is the reason, we should be paying around 50 cents a gallon. Cheney is long gone and the fact of the matter is we are in Iraq and we won’t be leaving any time soon.

That’s not what the director of the CIA said.
 

When Chickenhawk Cheney and is sidekick, special agent daughter, speak this nonsense there is really nothing to say but laugh. I bet they are really ticked off when they found out Obama got a hat trick yesterday by killing the 3rd badguy in one shot. And all this done without one American casualty.  ouch!

For the second time you state that waterboarding doesn’t kill people.  No form of torture is designed to kill people.  It is designed to inflict a maximum of pain and stress while keeping them alive.  WTF is wrong with you?  You sound like a psychopathic moron when you proudly state that no Americans have been waterboarded.  You were born too late.  You’d have been a great Nazi.

That secret service protection is standard for vice presidents for six months which is what Obama granted after Cheney made the request, that period has since expired.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5177217-503544.html

Gall? What about the gall of Obama throughout his campaign and well into office, he’s blamed everything but his mother-in-laws sore toe on the previous administration.  President Bush has remained silent in spite of all the nasty verbiosity tossed out into the public realm by Obama about him, thankfully Cheney speaks up.
btw, no need for trials, neither Bush or Cheney committed war crimes, that’s just part of the ugly the progressives enjoy tossing out.  You should be thankful they did all they did to protect your sorry rear end.

That secret service protection is standard for vice presidents for six months which is what Obama granted after Cheney made the request, that period has since expired.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5177217-503544.html

Gall? What about the gall of Obama throughout his campaign and well into office, he’s blamed everything but his mother-in-laws sore toe on the previous administration.  President Bush has remained silent in spite of all the nasty verbiosity tossed out into the public realm by Obama about him, thankfully Cheney speaks up.
btw, no need for trials, neither Bush or Cheney committed war crimes, that’s just part of the ugly the progressives enjoy tossing out.  You should be thankful they did all they did to protect your sorry rear end.

perhaps Cheney will get his apology when he and Shrub appologise for their misstatements and war crimes

President Bush is taking responsibility for the mission accomplished banner of which he had nothing to do with, taking it for his team, admirable.  It was sailors on the ship that requested that banner, they asked and advance man that was on board and he forwarded the request to Ari Fleisher and Fleisher gave the go ahead and had the banner made.  One thing I fault President Bush for is regretting the banner as it wasn’t for him, it was for those serving on the USS Lincoln.  I understand why he might think and apology, regret may be in order because the idiot liberals and the LSM used it to go after the Bush administration which took the attention off the message he delivered while on board that ship.

As far as Katrina, landing AF1 would have taken resources away from the rescue and security of the Lousiana people. 

John Kiriakou, the former CIA employee whose claims about waterboarding became an oft-cited defense of the torture practice.In 2007, Kiriakou told ABC News that the waterboarding of Al-Qaida commando Abu Zubaydah produced actionable intelligence that saved American lives. But in his upcoming book “The Reluctant Spy: My Secret Life in the CIA’s War on Terror,” Kiriakou admits — on the second-to-last page — that he essentially didn’t know what he was talking about when it came to waterboarding. Former SpyTalk blogger Jeff Stein broke news of Kiriakou’s confession on Foreignpolicy.com:
Kiriakou now rather off handedly admits that he basically made it all up.”What I told Brian Ross in late 2007 was wrong on a couple counts,” he writes. “I suggested that Abu Zubaydah had lasted only thirty or thirty-five seconds during his waterboarding before he begged his interrogators to stop; after that, I said he opened up and gave the agency actionable intelligence.”But never mind, he says now.”I wasn’t there when the interrogation took place; instead, I relied on what I’d heard and read inside the agency at the time.”
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said that the “magnificent” intelligence work that led to bin Laden isn’t a vindication of the the old torture program. “To the best of our knowledge, as the result of a look, none of it came from harsh interrogation practices,” Feinstein said.

One might as well talk to a post when explaining to you why torture is bad.  You write well enough,so I assume you are reasonably well educated; however it’s obvious that it has had no effect on your moral compass. 

A vice president is not in command of the military, Cheney did not send our troops anywhere but, he supported the troops in the mission they were tasked with.  My nephew had the honor of meeting Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and the CIA director, don’t remember which one…while he served in Iraq, the troops enjoyed and respected both Cheney and Rumsfeld.  My nephew told me their visits were among the highlights of his tour of duty. 

My nephew is also bright enough to know neither theater was “based on a lie.”  He was proud to serve and did his duty honorably.  He was tasked with being one of Saddam’s guards, was part of the group that escorted him to the chambers and guarded his body after the execution,  After that he guarded terrorists during interrogations as abu Gharibe and was privy to the intel that was drawn out of them.  He will tell anyone that Iraq was not an unnecessary war.

Over-reaction?  Tell that to the survivors and family members of the deceased at Ft. Hood.  They had infomation that Hasan was a crazy but nothing was acted upon,  Tell that to those on the plane with the under wear bomber, that episode was botched by the Obama administration, they had warnings about that too. 

So, here we have two examples where Obama’s people did not react…must be a couple of those examples of why Cheney referred to Obama as…soft on security.

The balls on this old man are disgustingly unbelievable.He didn’t do enough to put America on a destructive path, blood of American soldiers on his hands,now he has the audacity to say this.

Seems from all the bitching they are all doing,getting the bad guys wasn’t the plan of attack they were going for.

Stop making excuses, you look like a fool.

Oops,

Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information’ Memo Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html

It’s a memo written by Admiral Blair, the national security director confirming that the intelligence gained by waterboarding yielded………wait for it……….high value information. 

Also, Obama allowed the CIA memos to be released that also confirmed the intelligence gained by waterboarding the three terrorists…….worked.

Marc Thiessen published those same memos in his book for all to see.  The beef Cheney had was that the Obama administration refused to release the memos that outlined what information they obtained.  These memos are like after reports that were written by the agents immediately after the procedures were performed.  Sorry, they are already in the public domain and they prove the information obtained from the dastardly three gave the CIA information that allowed them to capture more terrorists and stop plots in play.

The Obama’s DOJ is mired in scandal.  We lost a border patrol agent and Mexico has had well over two hundred murders due to the gun running, Fast and Furious program that has inched up to the higher levels of the DOJ and into the White House.

BTW, as much as you want it to be, it was not torture, and it was not just Bush appointees in Justice that found it so, that determination included career Justice Dept. attorneys.  The hooplah surrounding waterboarding is due to politics.

Well, actually, we’re talking about something that concerns some finer distinctions than what you imply.

We’re not talking about pulling out fingernails, starving people, breaking bones, or gouging out eyes.  Techniques  that preserve life over time. 

What you don’t seem to “get” no matter your education and obvious lack of significancy is that I’m not talking about waterboarding as a first resort to interrogation. 

I am saying that it should not be completely off the table for high level captives with imminently vital information that would protect the lives of thousands.

That we must talk about this all is a disadvantage of our age.  The dirty little secret of fighting the Nazis was that their victors didn’t talk about their own dirty little secrets.  Back then there was a media and populace who well understood what Chruchill meant when he said that in some catastrophically important instances that “truth is a precious thing and must be protected by a bodyguard
of lies”

I’m really curious, where are you getting your information?  Where did you get your inaccurate talking points?

We did not try “WWII Japanese soldiers,’ we tried and executed Japanese leaders, not for waterboarding alone, it was for the “Rape of Nanking,” the “Bataan Death March,” forced labor where thousands of our troops and civilians died, starvation, beatings leading to death and waterboarding was included in the charges but was not the predominant charge.

Look it up, don’t go to liberal or conservative blogs, there are history sites that give the black and white of who, what and where.  I will give you some names to get you started:

Matsui, Tojo, Hirota, Muto, Itagaki, Dohihari, Kimura

Also see:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=4408l4408l0l6607l1l1l0l0l0l0l78l78l1l1l0&q=cache:wt54-WcF77YJ:http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/index.html+http%3A//www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/index.html&ct=clnk

Pages 1001-1050

Waterboarding; the Japanese method was unlike the procedure employed by our CIA, it was an entirely different method that was beyond what we now consider harsh.  The Japanese did not insert a baggie into the mouths of our soldiers to prevent water from entering lungs, or have a doctor and psycologist in the room.  They also did not have a government system that monitored the whole procedure via closed circuit TV. 

The type of waterboarding used on the three most evil terrorists that gave actionable intelligence was not torture, not related at all to the Japanese method, it was politics that tainted the procedure, not how it was performed.

Yeah, Cecilia would rather kick a kitten than have the man that sawed off Daniel Berg’s head experience less that 3 minutes of discomfort.

My goodness, she hasn’t been the same since that house fell on her sister.

Did you get the chance to see that video that KSM had filmed when he proudly did the deed?  It was all over the net.  I couldn’t bring myself to click onto that video, just thinking about the terror running through the mind of that innocent journalist knowing what was about to happen was enough for me.  I just sat for awhile and stared at that http:// and then shut my computer down.  My imagined image of what I refused to look at has stayed in my mind to this day.

no

“world wide alert”???  

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for not answering the question

and we should simply believe the director of the CIA?!

japanese waterboarding:  bad

american waterboarding:  good

what you don’t seem to get is that waterboarding is ILLEGAL

according to:  geneva conventions and the convention against torture

you know my position

rules are rules cecilia

you can’t just re-write or change the rules

Oh yes.

“The US State Department issued a “world wide” alert Saturday
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-01/middleeast/world_meast_yemen-radical-cleric_1_al-awlaki-drone-strike-jawf?_s=PM:MIDDLEEAST

Until November 30.

You seem to feel Its so much better to send remote controlled aircraft to bomb targets (and anyone else in their vicinity) to kingdom come, as if that makes us the most popular kids on the block.

Two totally different procedures that the left has melded into one in the same to wrongly state their case.

SEAL, you make me laugh, there isn’t ANYTHING Obama can do in your eyes that’s wrong and NOTHING Bush did was right.
You have, what we in the rail/train business say, “a one track mind.”

This old son of a bitch is crazy as hell.

loon logic…gotta love it

A vice president can’t send troops to war.

They didn’t blow off warnings that led to 9/11.  The August 6th pdb did not have actionable intelligence, it was a recap of CIA terrorist warnings requested by President Bush that covered a number of years well into the Clinton administration.  Again, nothing actionable.

He obviously won’t apologize, but he could at least give a public “thank you” for getting the policy right to begin with. 

Load of BS. I trust Scott McClellan who completes disputes this story in his book. Bush was giving a victory speech signaling the end of the Iraq War. Karl Rove was looking for a great photo op for the election.
Ari Fleisher would be defending Bush if he had invaded and started civil wars in five countries not just 2. Ari Fleisher. Andy Card. There are some Bush apologists who will defend Bush regardless of his actions.
As for Katrina. That was the worst photo op in modern presidential history. It was entirely symbolic of Bush’s detached reaction to the disaster.

No, he received the same amount of deferments as did VP Biden

Cheney’s deferments, five:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/01/politics/campaign/01CHEN.html?pagewanted=all

Biden’s deferments, five:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/1/bidens-draft-deferments-equal-cheneys-during-vietn/

Clinton dodged the draft”
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/208296/CLINTON-DODGED-DRAFT-IN-1969-JOURNAL-SAYS.html

Bush served in the Air Force National Guard and Obama the zero did zero.

Because he couldn’t bomb from 30,000 feet.  He wouldn’t allow his legacy to suffer by casualties with boots on the ground.  He just pontificated about wmd and evil Saddam, signed the Regime Change authorization and made himself look like he was really, really concerned without doing anything to prevent the mass murders that Saddam perpetrated, kind of like what he did for Ruwanda that he really, really regretted.  All talk but no cigar, heh.

Just a few points to consider. The explosion in illegal immigration problem occurred under Bush. After the wars, Katrina, the second worst economic crisis in the last century, failure to positively address any entitlement program, among a myriad of other failures, the total neglect of illegal immigration is just another Bush failure that is less discussed. So just think about that next time Fox News or Republican blogs gin up controversy over Fast and Furious which began under Bush.

The only competence President Obama has shown has been in the continuation and escalation of Bush era foreign/national security policy. These actions were dictated by the reality check he got once he had access to the same intelligence President Bush had while candidate Obama was was delivering high-minded rhetorical flourishes out on the campaign trail – and not by his leftist Coke-and-a-smile ideology.

I think the additional 2.5 million jobs lost and gas prices nearly double what they were since he took office – due specifically to the leftist policies he’s enacted – speak to his abject incompetence as a domestic leader.

Believe what you will. ObamaCare will be found unconstitutional next spring, the damage he’s done will be limited to one term and he’ll be remembered (by everyone with the ability to think critically) as a disaster worse than Carter. And, like an adult, his replacement will get to work on solving the problems he created without a mention of the former administration. 

Then he never should have demagogued it either.

hey, that’s Obama’s State Department, isn’t it? Oh, no.

American casualties may come later, hope the bamster is prepared.  You do remember the retaliation SEAL Team 6 suffered after bin Laden?  Might want to hold off on the snark.

The water torture used by the Japanese in WWII was not waterboarding. The techniques are completely different. One who has been waterboarded will recover fully in minutes. One who has undergone water torture – forceful ingestion of water and then having his abdomen stomped – will suffer massive internal injuries and probably death. 

If waterboarding is torture, why weren’t the ANSWER protesters who waterboarded each other in front of the US Capital arrested? 

@darladoon – In order to receive the protection of the Geneva convention, the participants must be Geneva signatories who abide by the convention. Al Qaeda did not agree to or sign the convention pact, but even if they had, they would lose their protections by failing to abide by its stipulations. They wear no uniform or insignia. They randomly attack civilian targets. They attack from non-military locations. They torture and kill captured enemy soldiers and mutilate and booby-trap their bodies.

When US soldiers capture anyone from Al Qaeda, they are within their rights under the Geneva convention to kill them on the spot. The fact that we have a Gitmo, where the captured enemy are allowed to LIVE, play volleyball, pray 5x daily and gain weight on gourmet halal food at the cost of an occasional interrogation is far more than we owe any of them and is proof that the US has not surrendered an inch of the moral high-ground.

If they were after the oil, why didn’t we take it?

The fact is that you’re talking out of your ass.

But…but…but…CHENEY!!!!

Also, ROVE!!!!!!

First, that the Geneva Conventions protect signatories and those who abide by them. Second, we have very different ideas as to what constitutes torture. Mine aligns with the Geneva Conventions.

You’re sure? Well, as long as you’re sure.

Faith is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?

Obama’s ever increasing use of drones to kill both foreigners and Americans is tearing the Democratic Party apart.

reagan was a leftist by tea party standards, sure

that darned convention against torture

what a “leftist” convetion

At the beginning of the first gulf war some American captives were shown on TV.  The administration cried foul, saying it was for propaganda purposes and against the Geneva Convention.  If, during the course of future adventures, some of your American men and women are tortured, it would be a crime.  However, it will be much more difficult to arouse sympathy or aid from the rest of the world due to your government’s past deeds; crimes committed in your name with your approval.  Of course, there is no possibility that you would be captured or touched in any way, so why would you worry about anything so mundane as the morality of your actions and their impact in the future. 
 
After the second world war ended the US was a beacon of hope embodied in the Marshall Plan; a most generous and fair treatment of defeated foes.  It led to the Pax Americana which bonded western Europe to the United States as firm allies for over half a century.  The sympathy and good will offered to America after 9-11 was pissed away in six months in an orgy of hatred, greed, and misdirected revenge.  You and people of your ilk make it extremely difficult for your country regain its standing in the world community.

But then, why would you care?

He can if the president is his hand puppet.

Being an A$$HOLE is bad.  There is no credit for consistency.

Being an A$$HOLE is bad.  There is no credit for consistency.

@059c0e239654b4a25ddfa100b648015f:disqus 
OK Rio, you tell me.  How many wrongs make a right?

As a lefty, I concede Cheney has a point, Obama has to man up and apologize

“I learned it by watching you.”

By going to Congress and having them authorize military action before he engaged in it. Unlike, you know, Obama.

US has had WWII Japanesse soilders under trial for war crimes in the past doing the same thing.

No, not the same thing. The Japanese “water cure” killed people. We just freaked them out. All three (count ‘em!) people we waterboarded are awaiting trial as we speck. Trials that Obama halted, that is.

… and no one has suggested waterboarding American citizens…

True, except for the troops we waterboard as a matter of training. http://tinyurl.com/3mwx7g

No, darla. You should only believe people who tell you what you want to hear. Why change now? It might upset your delicate system.

I wasn’t implying that Cheyney is the anthropogenic cause of Climate Change. But, he has been at the helm of the Big Oil, Big War cartel that has fought two unnecessary Trillion dollar wars to protect the interests of that cartel.

Now, that same “cartel” is demonizing the scientists that are trying to save humanity from a “potential” species eliminating change in the Earth’s biosphere. “Bio” = Life.

So, how’s Libya working out for ya? Feel safer yet?

Yes, we do. If a Democrat does it, it’s perfectly fine and should be celebrated. If a Republican does it, it’s unspeakably evil.

How many wrongs make a right?

How many wrongs does it take to kill the people whose purpose in life is to kill Americans for Allah? That many.

You need to apologize for seek psychiatric treatment.

cute – hiding behind your supposed nephew to defend Cheney. 

How does Afghanistan protect the interests of the “Big Oil, Big War” cartel? There’s no oil there. It’s not Libya, ferchrissakes.

“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors
last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam
Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that
biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back
to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine
delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile
program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United
States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob
Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement
between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by
failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and
refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations
inspections;

Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including
chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress
toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint
resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002
“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all
weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up
to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We
are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical
and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course
to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability.
Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons,
but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” — Robert Byrd, October
2002

“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he
has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But
the United States right now is on a very much different defensive
posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as
we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have
nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our
friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.”
– Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no
evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11,
2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects
American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw
evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from
gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up
and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense
William Cohen in April of 2003
“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades,
Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every
available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He
has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is
trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to
build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to
achieving that goal.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national
security. It should be clear that our national security requires
Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is
united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq’s
weapons of mass destruction.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“I share the administration’s goals in dealing with Iraq and its
weapons of mass destruction.” — Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian
Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his
access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass
destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should
assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al
Gore, 2002
“Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to
deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction.” —
Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction.” — Ted Kennedy, September 27,
2002

“There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious
danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of
mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.” — Ted
Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

“I will be voting to give the president of the United States the
authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because
I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his
hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” — John F. Kerry, Oct
2002

“The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end
of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after
Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has
continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to
reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to
lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of
proliferation.” — John Kerry, October 9, 2002

“(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous
dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his
offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so
consistently prone to miscalculation. …And now he is miscalculating
America�s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for
weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United
Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq
disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam
Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It
has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War.” — John Kerry,
Jan 23, 2003

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant
and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored
the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them.” — Carl Levin, Sept 19,
2002

“Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons,
biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of
danger for the United States.” — Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

“Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and
biological weapons. During 1991 – 1994, despite Iraq’s denials, U.N.
inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear
facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various
reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons
capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear
weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N.
inspectors have said that Iraq’s claims about biological weapons is
neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons
against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While
weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no
inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has
continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction.”
– Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

A favorite talking point is like a zombie. You just can’t kill it.

Let me guess: 9/11 Truther?

Vice President Cheney should apologize for allowing the 9/11 attack.  Then he should apologize for attacking Iraq.  Then he should apologize for outing Valerie Plame and causing the damage to covert efforts to keep nukes out of Iran.

Ill just hold my breath…

What happened to ‘BigEddie’? I bet it’s run its course after several beatings. AHhh. You can change your avatar title as many times as you want, you can’t change your fundamentals, its in you, the crap will still be the same, no matter what name you ascribe to it.

Ironically, it is Obama who, from the beginning, has been protecting Cheney from prosecution for war crimes.

Ask anyone into S&M (not me). If someone agrees to it. It is not illegal.

That’s why included the Big War aspect of the Big Cartel. It’s a bit intertwined “ferchrissakes”.

You need to seek psychiatric treatment get a GOPotomy.

 The two wars this man and his kind, which is still killing people is like what ok with you?Killing American soldiers and innocents for YEARS is like what better to you.? Being the big America cowboys doesn’t sit well with you people now that the big ol American black man is doing the hunting.What a joke you all are.

 The two wars this man and his kind, which is still killing people is like what ok with you?Killing American soldiers and innocents for YEARS is like what better to you.? Being the big America cowboys doesn’t sit well with you people now that the big ol American black man is doing the hunting.What a joke you all are.

 I snarked becausesome phoney American Patriot Obamahater snarked at me. We still are better off with Obama’s hat trick taking out 3 guys at once but I see where you are coming from.

 Had Bush used drones to take out the bad guys in Tora Bora I would be cheering for him as much as for Obama. But everyone knows the biggest blunder in American foreign policy that happened.

“I’m waiting for… the administration to go back and correct something they said two years ago when they criticized us for, quote, ‘overreacting’ to the events of 9/11. They, in effect, said we had walked away from our ideals, taking a policy contrary to our ideals. We had enhanced interrogation techniques, they clearly had moved in the direction of taking robust action if they feel it’s justified. In this case, I think it was, but I think they need to go back and reconsider what the president said when he was in Cairo.” – Dick Cheney

This Last Word video, with Lawrence O’Donnell, is on the serious side, and sheds a little light on the Is waterboarding “torture” or a “enhanced interrogation technique” argument…

DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO SHAME?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdGv5MYdR9c

And this Daily Show video, with Jon Stewart, is on the hilarious side, and sheds a little light on the mentality behind the “waterboarding (not torture) has kept America safe” argument…

Why Are You Such a Dick? – Audio Tape
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-5-2009/why-are-you-such-a-dick—-audio-tape

This Scott McClellan?

White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, told CNN that in preparing for the speech, Navy officials on the carrier told Bush aides they wanted a “Mission Accomplished” banner, and the White House agreed to create it.  “We took care of it,” McClellan said, “We have people to do those things.  But the Navy actually put it up.”

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-10-28/politics/mission.accomplished_1_aircraft-carrier-conrad-chun-banner?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Then we have Cmdr. Conrad Chun weighing in:

The banner was a Navy idea, the ships idea.  The idea popped up in one of the meetings aboard the ship preparing for it’s homecoming and thought it would be good to have a banner “Mission Accomplished.”  The sailers then asked if the White House could get the sign made…The banner signified the successful completion of the ships deployment.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Abraham_Lincoln_(CVN-72)

This is the White House advance man Ari Fleischer writes about in his book, “Taking Heat,” Scott Sforza explaining how the press mischaracterized the president’s speech because of the banner:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/press-missed-mission-accomplished-meaning-says-bush-staffer/

No where in the president’s speech was “Mission Accomplished” mentioned, he declared “major combat operations” over, meaning all the big stuff got to go home.  At that point, we no longer needed the air craft carriers, we controlled areas where we could establish bases and air strips and no longer needed to bomb from warships or launch our fighter planes from  air craft carriers. 

Read the speech, you will not get the impression of it being a “victory speech signalling the end of the Iraq War.”  In the speech he again told us that there is much work ahead.

Karl Rove, Andy Card, Bush, Cheney, none were even in DC when Fleischer gave the go ahead with the banner, as he wrote in HIS BOOK.

The detached reaction to Katrina was from the democrats that ran Louisiana and New Orleans.

“Do it to Julia …Do it to Julia” Winston Smith in Room101 in Orwell’s 1984  

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifical­ly intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentiona­l infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administra­tion or applicatio­n, or threatened administra­tion or applicatio­n, of mind-alter­ing substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personalit­y;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administra­tion or applicatio­n of mind-alter­ing substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personalit­y; and
(3) “United States” means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonweal­ths, territorie­s, and possession­s of the United States.

U.S. Code Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 113C § 2340

I don’t hide behind him, I stand proudly beside him and note there was no….thanks for his service in you miserable little remark, wimp.  He happens to be another outstanding family member that serves this country unselfishly as did and do other family members.  We have a bunch to be proud of.

The drones weren’t armed until Operation Iraqi Freedom:

http://www.iar-gwu.org/node/144

Our commanders, at the time, did not have that capability and did not want to repeat the mistake the Russians did by sending troops into the mountains.  Instead they used CIA and Special Ops, some assisted by Afghanis,  to go in using lazers for air stikes.  As the generals have said, at that time they did not have conclusive proof that bin Laden was there.  Ain’t arm chair quarterbacking great.

Cheney is correct.  An apology is needed.   Obama owes the Nation and the World an apology for not pursuing War Crimes indictments on Cheney and Bush.

What orifice did you pull that inane comment out of? Darla.

You think that was an explosion, just wait….Dream Act…..what party is promoting that?  Whose Justice Department is suing states trying to protect themselves?  If an when the economy improves there will be an explosion like you’ve never seen due to the current policies.

Fast and Furious was controlled under the Bush administration, there were no whistleblowers that came forward to report that they were  not allowed to confiscate the guns, they were forced by Obama’s and Holder’s cronies to let those guns flood into Mexico.  Psst, heard the rumor?  that the program was being used to allow for stricter gun control before those brave agents stepped forward and exposed it.

You mean the war that was voted on in a bipartisan manner?  Who needs a hand puppet when you have a bipartisan Congress in you back pocket, at least until those partisans need an election gimmick to run on, troops be damned.

I will repeat, a vice president can’s send troops to war.

I notice he didn’t respond to this either, I posted less than an hour after “Zombie” Zona did thinking he might want to challenge the information as he is so dedicated to misinformation.

We got to kill it for the children, lol, and all the agents that did dedicate a chunk of their lives tracking OBL down.  What an insult to them for these idiots to assume just  because of GW these agents weren’t on the hunt.  They do their jobs no matter who is in the OO.

Racist alert!

Racist alert!

Well, well, well, here we have a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black, or we could say….people living in glass housed shouln’t throw stones.

I guess you’re going to turn blue, try stomping your feet and sticking your tongue out for effect.

Not a thing you just said has any basis in fact.  Pathetic.

blah blah blah…war crimes…blah blah blah…blood on his hands…blah blah blah…Halliburton….blah blah blah….Darth Vader…blah blah blah….Bush….blah blah blah….wrong war….blah blah blah…no wmds….blah blah blah…all for oil….blah blah blah….blah Bush….blah Bush…..blah Bush…..blah Cheney…blah Cheney…blah Cheney….Obama is wonderful..Obama is wonderful…Obama is wonderful………………

(2) severe mental pain and suffering” means…….”  so tell us, voltman, what prolonged mental harm did the waterboarding cause the three terrorists?  Until you can come up with the answer, the rest of the c&p is moot.

How about prolonged physical harm?  Can you come up with one for that?  I know your c&p doesn’t include “prolonged physical harm” just asking, because you handwringers are whining incessantly about those poor cut throat killers.

carter was the last “great time” regular americans had

once reagan got in……the middle class was finished

travis

WE signed the geneva conventions

WE.  that is the UNITED STATES. 

and reagan signed the convention against torture.  

that’s not my position, pablo

you know my position

yeah, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of those people:

a)  changed their position on the war

b)  apologized for it

i agree, many democrats are war-mongering assholes, but for YOU to post them,
as if they were wrong……it strange as you were/are an iraq war supporter.

so…….what’s your point, pabo?  are these heroic democrats?  or spineless twits?

those democrats also weren’t privy to the same intelligence

this is well known…

You idiots fall for Wilkerson every time.  This from the bastion of conservatism….The National Republic, enjoy:

Delusions Of Lawrence WilkersonJames KirchickAssistant Editor
James KirchickAssistant Editor
On Wednesday, Colin Powell’s former Chief of Staff Lawrence Wilkerson wrote a post for Steve Clemons’s The Washington Note blog which has been attracting some attention (Mike linked to it yesterday). In particular, Wilkerson wrote the following about Dick Cheney’s public criticisms of the Obama administration’s poilcy reversals on enhanced interrogation techniques:   On Wednesday, Colin Powell’s former Chief of Staff Lawrence Wilkerson wrote a post for Steve Clemons’s The Washington Note blog which has been attracting some attention (Mike linked to it yesterday). In particular, Wilkerson wrote the following about Dick Cheney’s public criticisms of the Obama administration’s poilcy reversals on enhanced interrogation techniques:  
My investigations have revealed to me–vividly and clearly–that once the Abu Ghraib photographs were made public in the Spring of 2004, the CIA, its contractors, and everyone else involved in administering “the Cheney methods of interrogation”, simply shut down…. [N]o torture or harsh interrogation techniques were employed by any U.S. interrogator for the entire second term of Cheney-Bush, 2005-2009. So, if we are to believe the protestations of Dick Cheney, that Obama’s having shut down the “Cheney interrogation methods” will endanger the nation, what are we to say to Dick Cheney for having endangered the nation for the last four years of his vice presidency?
There are several problems with this assertion. First is that there is no evidence to substantiate Wilkerson’s claim that, after Abu Ghraib, “No torture or harsh techniques were employed by any U.S. interrogator.” How would Wilkerson even know this? He left the government with Powell four years ago. Oh yes, he has his “investigations.”  And while it’s true that Obama issued an executive order banning waterboarding, he left open the option of continuing the renditioning of terrorists to foreign countries, where, presumably, they will undergo worse ordeals than simulated drowning and being put in a small space with a caterpillar.      The other sensational claim Wilkerson makes is that the Bush administration authorized the Egyptian government to waterboard a senior Egyptian al Qaeda leader named Ibn al Shaykh al Libi with the purpose of ginning up false intelligence connecting Iraq and al Qaeda. But as Thomas Joscelyn points out, al Libi actually divulged information about Iraq-al Qaeda links two months before Wilkerson claims he had been waterboarded. This information is available in a four-year old report, rendering Wilkerson’s ruminations about the “Sith Lord” Cheney less than scoop-worthy, as well as inaccurate.But the more important thing people should know about Lawrence Wilkerson is that nothing he says can be taken at face value.  The man is a third-rate conspiracy theorist and a borderline bigot. Here, for instance, is what he told Robert Dreyfuss, the former Middle East Editor of Lyndon LaRouche’s Executive Intelligence Review and now a Senior Correspondent for the American Prospect and Contributing Editor to The Nation, in 2006, about David Wurmser, Doug Feith and other “neocons” in the Bush Defense Department: A lot of these guys, including Wurmser, I looked at as card-carrying members of the Likud party, as I did with Feith. You wouldn’t open their wallet and find a card, but I often wondered if their primary allegiance was to their own country or to Israel. That was the thing that troubled me, because there was so much that they said and did that looked like it was more reflective of Israel’s interest than our own.
Perhaps the gravest charge that one can make about a government official is that he has dual loyalties. It is usually liberals who complain about being tarred as “unpatriotic” by conservatives, but for the past 8 years, the charge that a set of individuals put the interests of a foreign country ahead of their own was almost exclusively found in the precincts of the left (the exception being in the pages of the American Conservative, no edition of which seems to be hitting the newsstands without at least one story alledging various and sundry Jewish-er-”neocon” plots).  Wilkerson, as the former Chief of Staff to a Secretary of State,has taken this slander to a new level by offering a gloss of official-ness to it.  This wouldn’t be the first time, by the way, that steve Clemmons has handed over his blog to creepy people making outlandish assertions.  A few months ago, he published a letter from Chas Freemon’s grown son addressed to jon Chait, Marty Perez and me in which he accused us of being ‘low-lives,” “schmucks,” and “more loyal to Israel simply for questioning whether his father was an appropriate nominee to fill the position of Chairman of the National Intelligence Council.  (Why is that Wilkerson, Freeman and people of their ilk seem incapable of having debates without accusing those who disagree with them of being traitors?  Another of Wilkerson’s conspiracy theories is that “neocons” in the Bush administration had attempted to push the Taiwanese government of Chen Shui-bien to declare independence from China. Such a move would, of course, precipitate a war with the Communist regime in Beijing, but the possibility of hostilities with a nuclear-armed China was apparently not enough to dissuade the likes of Doug Feith, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton et. al. from their “utopian” fantasies. As with Wilkerson’s other tales, this one similarly disappeared into the ether for lack of evidence.Wilkerson’s post-government career has been one, drawn-out campaign of special pleading. Like his former boss, Wilkerson had ample opportunity to oppose the policies he’s now so resoundingly condemning when he was in the State Department. But like Nancy Pelosi and waterboarding, he chose not to speak out until it became politically convenient. As State Department Chief of Staff, Wilkerson was intimately involved in preparing Colin Powell’s presentation to the United Nations Security Council making the case for war. He was at Powell’s side for four years. Yet only once the war started to become unpopular and he was safely ensconced elsewhere outside of government, did he decide to turn. What we’re seeing here is a particularly nasty iteration of the long-simmering feud between Colin Powell and Dick Cheney, with one particularly hot-headed subordinate picking up the slack for his embittered former boss. Since departing government at the end of the first Bush term, Wilkerson has emerged as the most outspoken member of the Powell faction. One would think that Powell would want someone a little less paranoid and juvenile serving as his primary public advocate; that he would tell Wilkerson to turn the Jew-baiting and hysteria down a notch. That the former Secretary of State seems unbothered by his erstwhile Chief of Staff’s  behavior speaks volumes about his own character. Update: Here’s what Wilkerson told CNN about his allegations (via John McCormack): I couldn’t walk into a courtroom and prove this to anybody, but I’m pretty sure it’s fairly accurate.What a high evidentiary standard!  How unfortunate that a man of such fine ethical caliber works in the State Department.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/the-latest-delusions-lawrence-wilkerson

F**k Dick Cheney.

Carter presided over double-digit interest rates, stagflation, and gas and energy crises of his own creation and a feckless foreign policy that allowed Yassir Arafat to become the leader of a global terrorist movement. Perhaps you’ve forgotten his Misery Index and his Malaise speech. “Great time” indeed. 

Stop listening to the chickenhawks. We had bin Laden.. and from real Commanders . not the chickenhawks where you get your bs from… http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504365_162-5827362-504365.html

and even if they didn’t have 100% proof that bin Laden was there, why would numbnuts go the opposite way and attack another country . makes sense. uh…

http://foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Tora_Bora_Report.pdf   Do you want to apologize now or later.

If anyone should be apologizing Cheney should be for this:    http://foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Tora_Bora_Report.pdf

Illegal, immoral, unpoular war = election gimmick. 

Oh Rio!  You so funny!  You make joke!  Nice to see some original new comedy being written in Amerika during these shitty times you have brought on yourselves.

@darladoon:twitter . Yes, we signed the Geneva conventions. And the Bush administration consulted with experts prior to engaging in any harsh interrogation techniques in order to ensure the conventions were followed. The fact that you other BDS sufferers disagree is irrelevant. You have a better chance of winning the “Bush stole the ’00 election” fight than you do of seeing Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld arrested and tried as war criminals. 

By the way, in 2000, the votes in Florida were counted twice before the election was certified and counted again three more times by independent groups. Bush won every single time. You and your friends on the left can entertain fantasies about how you’re smarter than everyone else and how mainstream your views are, but the facts all point to the opposite being true. 

This sack of crap trying to stay relevant for his book needs to just finish shriveling up and die.

Your link doesn’t open and it was General Franks and his Lt. Col.(can’t remember his name) that I listened to. 

There have been a number of Senate investigations, if this is one the led by the Senate democrats, with information cherry picked, by the democrats, that would be worse than me listening to chickenhawks. 

I have read through most of the material that passed through the investigations and later, the corrections made to what was published and put into the record, you have to be careful to make sure you get the most updated information and at times.  The various committees also pass out different information all relating to the same incidents.

tomregit, when you’ve no where to go, you fall back on incoherent talking points babble.  You are the joke.

It’s a pdf file, sorry.  It’s an official document from Sen. Kerry and Repub. Senator 4get name advising the intellingence on bin Laden. I don’t even know if it is classified stating what I said above but I found it somehow. Very interesting info! on every bomb dropped there and radio transmissions from bin Laden, stating he got hit. When I can I will send you a link to the page. Take care.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/08/opinion/la-oe-kerry8-2009dec08   Sen. Kerry is the last thing from a chickenhawk. lol

“Give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour and I’ll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.”

                                                                                                                                                            – Jesse Ventura -

Hey Darladoon! Someone has some how hijacked my picture (avatar) and my user name (12voltman1) to make it looked like I clicked on the “like” button of messages.When I go to a message board now and before I even read a message It says I liked the post (with my picture/avatar) on messages I do not agree with! This has happpened hundreds of time since last night alone. I have e-mailed and informed Discus. They have not replied back to me yet. Beware-12voltman

Hey Zona! Someone has some how hijacked my picture (avatar) and my user name (12voltman1) to make it looked like I clicked on the “like” button of messages.When I go to a message board now and before I even read a message It says I liked the post (with my picture/avatar) on messages I do not agree with! This has happpened hundreds of time since last night alone. I have e-mailed and informed Discus. They have not replied back to me yet. Beware-12voltman