Atlantic Writer Pushes Back On Tim Miller’s Digs At JD Vance – Who Ends Up Calling the VP a C*nt

The Bulwark’s Tim Miller interviewed George Packer, a staff writer at The Atlantic, this week about his recent profile of  Vice President JD Vance titled, “The Talented Mr. Vance.” Miller and Packer spent a good chunk of the conversation debating whether or not Vance’s many evolutions in public life, from liberal literary darling to MAGA culture warrior, were authentic or craven political moves.

Miller laid out his theory, arguing that he believes Vance has simply “mirrored” powerful figures close to him, from David Frum to Peter Thiel to now Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump.

“That’s a legitimate story that you just told. And there’s a lot of truth to it. I don’t know quite how to say this,” Packer pushed back, adding:

Because I feel like as a writer, I need to allow for some degree of good faith in what I hear. I don’t want to just assume every word out of his mouth is cynical and opportunistic. I don’t think it is.

I don’t think people are that way. People convince themselves of things. And as I wrote in the piece, ventriloquize long enough and your voice changes.

The mask becomes your face. And so if he imitated the way of speaking, he heard from David, from Peter Thiel, Tucker Carlson. It has become him.

That’s who he is. He’s not going home and saying to Usha, ‘I can’t believe I just used the phrase childless cat ladies.’

“Oh, I agree with that. He’s convinced himself that it was a conversion,” Miller replied.

“But I think there may be, there may be one other thing to it, Tim. I’m agreeing mostly with what you say,” Packer continued, adding:

I think it’s possible he’s decided tariffs are the way to bring back manufacturing. I think that’s quite possible. I think he’s quite possibly decided that the open border was a disaster for the working class.

He may well have decided those things. I can’t know for sure. But here’s one thing that I think has been at work.

The new JD Vance, aggressive, vitriolic, combative, getting into Twitter fights with not particularly famous journalists and using a lot of inflammatory language about groups like immigrants. I think it’s been a sort of relief because think about what it took to make himself acceptable at Yale Law School. He writes about this at length in Hillbilly Elegy.

His girlfriend, now wife, Usha, became his Yale Spirit Guide. She taught him how to use the silverware at a fancy dinner party and what seltzer water was, for Christ’s sake, and how to take advantage of office hours and go to the right interviews and behave correctly.

As the conversation progressed, Packer returned to the idea that Vance’s current behavior is rooted in his actual life experiences, adding, “I thought of calling the piece, it’s not up to me what to call it, but my working title was, ‘Tthe Return of the Repressed’ – because he repressed that angry combative, you challenged my honor, I’m gonna take you on, hillbilly culture that he writes about. And now he’s been rewarded beyond his dreams for that very same attitude. It’s the attitude of MAGA.”

“MAGA and how he describes, I don’t want to insult hillbillies, I’m going on his description. His description of in-group, out-group, you’re the enemy, we have to go after you, reminds me a little bit of MAGA, and he’s been rewarded with the vice presidency. And that might be in some way more satisfying than going around telling rich CEOs about all the pathologies of the white working class,” Packer added, asking Miller, “Does that make sense?”

“Yeah, it does. I don’t mean to pick on you in my responses because I should just, in the interest of transparency, I find JD Vance to be the least appealing person in all of public life. Like if I had to spend the rest of my life with Ted Cruz, living in an apartment, I would rather do that than have to go on like a single road trip with JD Vance,” Miller replied, as Packer pressed, “Why?”

“I think it’s all bullshit. I was interested in your piece. I read it,” Miller replied, sounding off again on Vance:

I’ve watched him. And I think he’s a sociopath and I think he’s mean. And he’s very condescending.

And I listened to that little trajectory that you laid out. And I’m like, who doesn’t want to be a cunt? I mean, I say that in the British sense.

Like, who doesn’t want to be Liam Gallagher from Oasis and just say whatever the fuck you want and make fun of people and be a star? Everybody does. Wouldn’t that be satisfying for– Doesn’t everyone have that inside them a little bit?

“Yeah, but my super ego would be crushing me at every step of the way,” Packer replied.

“Okay, so maybe not everybody. Maybe this is why my JD Vance feelings are, because I have that. I have that little strain inside of me,” Miller responded, adding:

I also, again, everything JD Vance wrote in 2015 could have been me. He is a little bit better of a writer than me, so not quite, and he has a little more fake formal than me, so it wouldn’t be exactly the same, but mostly it would have been similar. So maybe there’s a personal feeling to it, but you have an obligation when you hit the lottery like he did and become Vice President of the United States to not let your inner hillbilly, not let your worst instincts take you.

Packer jumped in to make clear he was not excusing Vance’s behavior and that he finds his public behavior “morally cretinous.”

Watch the full conversation above.