Kristen Welker Gets in Tense Clash With Head of Pro-Life Organization on Roe v. Wade: ‘Let Me Finish a Sentence’

NBC’s Kristen Welker got in a tense clash pro-life leader Marjorie Dannenfelser on MSNBC’s MTP Daily on Tuesday.

The back-and-forth came in the aftermath of Politico publishing on Monday night a leak of a Supreme Court draft opinion to strike down the landmark abortion cases Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

The segment started with Welker playing a soundbite of former Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards from earlier in the program.

“Abortion didn’t begin with Roe v. Wade. Abortion has always existed. What happened when Roe was passed was that women quit dying in emergency rooms in America,” she said. “So we will continue to have abortion this this country if these justices are successful. It simply will be unsafe and illegal and women’s lives will be at risk.”

Asked for a response, Dannenfelser said, “Our nation’s history from the very beginning under common law did not embrace abortion. And in fact, it was outlawed in all states up until very recently until 1973.”

“But that’s her point. That cost lives,” interrupted Welker. “That’s the point that, I think, you heard Cecile Richards make. That before Roe v. Wade, not having access to safe and legal abortion cost women their lives.”

“I understand her point and if you let me finish I’m going to finish my point also,” said Dannenfelser. “The reason that abortion was rejected historically in our nation is that there was an understanding that in every abortion, every crisis situation there’s a mother and a child to be cared for, assisted all along the way and walked with.”

She continued:

So when I was very pro-choice, I did not see two people in every decision. But most of America sees two considerations every time a woman is pregnant. When you hear somebody’s pregnant, it’s almost always congratulations, unless you decided that that is something other than another human being. That’s the fundamental question that we have before us.

Every state should have the right to allow consensus in its state to make its way into law. The reason we have not had this is that the Supreme Court took away that right because the abortion argument could not win in the court of public opinion. It’s been held for the court for that long and now hopefully we’ll have the chance.

Welker cited an NBC poll showing that 54 percent of adults believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases while 42 percent say it should.

“The public opinion is not with you,” said Welker.

“You know why,” said Dannenfelser. “Because of the worst reporting that has been out there over the last almost 50 years says that Roe only restricts abortion, only allows restrictions in the first trimester. Not true. And that’s not generally known by the public. The public embraces restrictions on abortion that Roe would never allow. Late term abortion, abortion at 20 weeks…”

Welker, talking over Dannenfelser, said, “But it does get far more complicated in later terms. It does get more complicated in the later terms.”

“Fifteen weeks is a great example. The one that is actually been tested by the court is a great example,” said Dannenfelser. “This is overwhelmingly supported by the country, by the nation and the nation and Roe disallows it. That’s why Roe is under dangerous because of the 15-yeek week limit.”

Welker asked Dannenfelser for proof to show the United States is behind a 15-week limit.

Dannenfelser said:

Have you seen polling on 15-week limits? Because every polling polls – left, right, Gallup, MSNBC – polls show that 15 weeks is a limit is embraced by the nation by large numbers, 70 percent by Marist poll shows. If you want the polling, I can send it you, but let’s be honest.

Honesty is that Roe v. Wade is not understood at all. And that people support restrictions that Roe doesn’t allow. Most of America thinks abortion should be allowed in the first trimester. That is a majority opinion. That is consensus in many places. But there’s also a consensus that it should be limited in mid-to-late term because that’s just a humane thing to do for a mother and child.

Welker asked Dannenfelser, “If Roe is overturned, though, do you believe there should be exceptions for cases of rape and incest in the states that will now have to have patchwork of different laws?”

“Every single state will build consensus in that state,” replied Dannenfelser. “So do I support the heartbeat bill in Texas, yes. Do I support the Mississippi 15 limit, yes. Every one of those things is a gain.”

“But do you think there should be exceptions for rape and incest in every state?” Welker jumped in. “You’re talking about individual states. I’m asking do you want every single state.”

Dannenfelser responded:

We’re not going to have every state. We’re going to have, finally, a debate in every single state. Thirty states can move immediately to build consensus to make its way into the law and we’ll see where that lands.

But what I think it’s really important for you to acknowledge that the position of the other side and [Maryland] Gov. [Larry] Hogan, who thinks he might be the president and the Republican nominee, that that is insane thought. Because anybody who embraces abortion up until the end and wants taxpayers to pay for it is not a viable candidate. And I think Democrats are going to start to see this at the polls. In fact, they have in the last several elections. And it’s not true in any way that the abortion issue has in any way diminished the Republicans.

“And they know…,” she continued. “That it brings our field teams across the country are the people bringing that middle America, that middle view to the pro-life…”

“Just to be clear, people are support late term abortions do so only if the safety and the life of the mother is at risk,” said Welker.

“This is not true,” said Dannenfelser. “This is literally not true. And I challenge you. I will send you the objective data on this. It is literally not true. And I challenge you to do that work and not just guess.”

“That is the argument that most people who support late term abortions make. But let me ask you about these trigger laws,” said Welker. “Let me ask you about the trigger laws that would effectively in about half the states across the country would go into effect almost immediately if roe were to be overturned. … “Are you concerned about what will become a patchwork? And I guess the follow up question, what do you think the punishment should be for someone who performs an abortion or who has an abortion in these states?”

“A doctor who performs an abortion or a person who mails chemical abortions through the mail is knowingly circumventing the law,” said Dannenfelser. “A woman will never be a part of the punishment of this. A woman…”

“But how can you guarantee that?” Welker interuppted. “But if this is going to be a patchwork, how can you guarantee that?”

“If you ever let me finish a sentence, I will tell you my actual answer to your question. Women are exploited by this. They are victims of this,” said Dannenfelser. “And they should not be and will not be in any way penalized but the person who is the one who is feeding off her misery, the abortionist, and the one sending her the chemical abortion through the mail, he or she knows what they are doing.”

Watch above, via MSNBC.

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