Are Jared Kushner’s Saudi Billions The Biggest Trump Election Story Hiding In Plain Sight? Q&A With Vicky Ward

Veteran investigative journalist and best-selling author Vicky Ward joined Mediaite for an in-depth discussion about Jared Kushner’s private equity firm, Affinity Partners, which has raised alarm bells and led to investigations by Democrats on Capitol Hill. Ward has long followed the business dealings of Kushner and his family in the New York real estate world and wrote the 2019 New York Times best-seller Kushner, Inc. about Kushner’s time in the White House and how he appeared to parlay that position into ever-increasing wealth.

Ward published a follow-up series in 2022 on her Substack Vicky Ward Investigates and dug into the $3 billion of foreign investment that flowed into Affinity Partners almost immediately after Kushner left the White House – including $2 billion from Saudi Arabia, a country to which Kushner developed deep ties while working for his father-in-law, then-President Donald Trump.

Senate Democrats have an ongoing investigation into the alleged quid pro quo between Kushner and his foreign investors, with Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) publicly alleging that Affinity Partners acts as “a workaround for foreign governments to pay Trump officials without disclosure.”

During the conversation, Mediaite asked Ward to break down the history of dealings between Kushner and Saudi Arabia before the billions were put under his control — for a reported $25-million-a-year management fee. What exactly were those billions for? What should voters know about Jared Kushner’s business dealings before the 2024 election? And what’s going on with the current investigations into it?

Below is a transcript of the conversation (lightly edited for brevity):

Mediaite: Vicky, you have spent years covering Jared Kushner, the real estate scion, who married Ivanka Trump, which led to him having a senior adviser role in the White House for four years. In 2019, you published the bestselling book Kushner, Inc., which was a deep dive into the Trump administration, as well as Jared and Ivanka’s role in those four wild years. Can you talk about the book and what “Kushner, Inc.” really means?

Ward: Sure, Alex. Actually, it’s an interesting question with an important answer I think, given what may happen if Trump wins the election in November. So I came to Kushner, Inc. because I had written two books prior to that. My first book was about Lehman Brothers, which Trump loved. He told my children that, you know, your mother is the best writer in the world. They were somewhat flummoxed by that. And they were reading Harry Potter. They said, Mr. Trump, what about J.K. Rowling? I’m not sure he knew who that was.

But my second book was about the world of New York real estate. It was called The Liar’s Ball, and it told the history of the General Motors building in New York because that at the time was the most valuable piece of commercial real estate in America. And Donald Trump, his history with that building didn’t end up being a good one. He had first dibs on it and he ended up not being able to purchase it when it came on the market. And there was no way to whitewash — that was just a fact. And had he bought it, he would have made billions of dollars. So he was extremely annoyed by this book and tweeted very helpfully for marketing purposes, “Just finished really boring book by third rate author,” but because of that, I had a background. I knew the world of New York real estate and I was also very familiar with the Kushners’ real estate business.

And in 2016, I wrote a story for Esquire magazine about the Kushner brothers. And I was very struck. And this was while the Trump campaign, run by Jared and Steve Bannon at the time, was gearing up for the, you know, Trump’s first election race. I was really struck when writing that piece for Esquire at sort of how Jared Kushner had changed. And I had known him when he first moved to New York when his father was put in jail. I had actually met him and I had some you know, back then, I had quite a soft spot for him. He was a kind of vulnerable, soft-spoken, intelligent guy. And I had a lot of time for him.

What was super interesting was sort of over ten years later, he had morphed into someone that, according to my reporting, was very vengeful, very petty, didn’t think the rules applied to him, and he wasn’t that interested in the details of his own real estate business. He didn’t know his numbers. He was very interested in having lunch with Rupert Murdoch and so — with various people, you know, power brokers. But he was less interested in the nitty-gritty of his business.

So because I had been focused on the world of New York real estate and on Jared and the Kushners’ business, I was paying close attention, possibly unlike anybody else, to the fact that the Kushners had this real problem. When Jared went into the Trump White House, the Kushners were sitting on a ticking time bomb where they had this trophy building, 666 Fifth Avenue, and they had a massive $1.4 billion loan that was coming due. American buyers and investors had long ago said, “This is a piece of dirt. This is garbage.” Nobody would touch it. Which meant they were entirely dependent on foreign investment. And so it seemed to be a no-brainer that we should be looking very closely at what Jared Kushner was doing in terms of his dealings with foreign countries, particularly rich foreign countries, and to look at what was going on, you know, how the Kushners were going to solve this problem. And right — and that said, right from the get go, as the time ticked on and you saw the headlines appear about Jared Kushner suddenly being, quote-unquote, “secretary of everything.”

And you saw the headlines about him meeting with the Russian ambassador, taking a meeting during the transition with the Chinese, a possible investor who subsequently went to jail. You saw the headlines about the White House logs being closed. You saw the headlines about how Jared hadn’t managed to divest properly from his own businesses. You saw the headlines that he didn’t get — he wasn’t cleared for a top security clearance. And, you know, I was going, “My God.” And then obviously, you know, in the nick of time, 666 Fifth Avenue was bailed out in an extraordinary way by a 99-year loan — a lease, rather, with a 99-year lease with all the money paid upfront.

…

This is the problem with the way the media operates a little bit. I mean, look, there are amazing beat reporters covering the White House. There were then, there are now in Washington, but they weren’t covering the Trumps or Jared and Ivanka particularly, who, I would argue the real appearance of grift that went on in that White House was led by those two.

They weren’t looking at their businesses. They weren’t covering the White House as a kleptocracy — focused on them. I think I was lucky because I had this background where I knew a lot about New York real estate. I had lots of sources. And that’s what, you know, I sort of got impatient. I kept waiting for The Washington Post or The New York Times or somebody to write about this, and they didn’t. So that’s why I wrote Kushner, Inc.

Mediaite: I spent the Trump years on a news desk in Tel Aviv. I know very well the Qatari blockade and, of course, the sale of 666. And we looked at your writing quite a bit to try to understand where this web all connected. And it’s so complicated. There really would need to be individual point people at large publications to unravel it.

So, in the years after the book, you followed the story and you published a three-part series on your Substack, Vicky Ward Investigates. And since then, in the year after Kushner left the White House, he raised over $3 billion from these foreign governments, the Saudis and the Qataris included.

So, just to give a brief overview of where the conversation’s going. What I wanted to know and really talk to you about is, what were those billions for? What’s he now doing managing this money? And what should voters know about Jared Kushner’s business deals? Is this really something that should be an electoral issue for the public?

You wrote in your series in 2022 that the $2 billion the Saudis invested in Kushner’s private equity firm, and this is a quote, “was an IOU for US foreign policy led by Kushner during the Trump years and also a bet by MBS, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, on a return to the White House by Kushner’s father-in-law, Donald Trump.” You could help us unpack that IOU, what was the relationship between them?

Yeah. And obviously, this isn’t just my opinion, Alex. I mean, this is based on reporting from many of the sources, both in our intelligence agencies and around those countries that were very helpful to me in the reporting of Kushner, Inc. So sort of to break that down, Congress were late but at least — they were late to the party, but they finally arrived, once the Saudis who kicked this off, you know, invested in Jared Kushner’s new fund and investing $2 billion over the advice of top advisers. Who made the very reasonable point that Jared Kushner doesn’t have any experience in private equity, his experience as a businessman is in real estate.

Which wasn’t the best experience as it was, he wasn’t a wildly successful developer.

Correct. So, when MBS, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia overruled his his financial advisors and invested this, it was initially 2 billion. Now, five other countries have come in, including the Qataris and the Emiratis and the Taiwanese. And it’s now 3 billion. But once the initial money was there, Congress began to investigate the case. Clearly, this was an appearance of a quid pro quo.

Now, Kushner has always completely denied that. At some point, Congress also unearthed emails to Jared’s father, Charles, around the, about 666 Fifth Avenue, emails between the Qataris and Charles Kushner around the time the Saudi sort of, the foreign policy around Qatar that I just talked to you about was unfolding on Jared’s watch. But, you know, without a smoking gun, without an email that says specifically, you know, if you do this deal, there’ll be a quid pro quo. It’s really hard to get beyond this idea that there’s just an appearance of self-serving of of grift. But so — but your question, though, was really about what did Jared do for the Saudis to get this money.

There is that famous I think it was a State Department cable that was intercepted where MBS said, you know, Kushner was “in his pocket.” There have been all of these many stories over the years about their close relationship, texting late at night, etc.

Right. So what I reported after Kushner, Inc. that wasn’t known then, that is known now, is that MBS, it’s thought by — I mean, not just by me, but by people like Bruce Riedel, John Brennan — yes, serious people with a lot of US security expertise. That so people forget, Mohammed bin Salman was not the crown prince of Saudi Arabia when Trump became president in 2017. The crown prince was a guy called Mohammed bin Nayef, who was considered a hero by the US intelligence agencies. He had been incredibly helpful in warning us when terrorists were getting on planes and things like that after 9/11. And he was considered such a valuable ally of the United States.

And in fact, in the early months of the Trump White House, Mike Pompeo, who was then CIA director, gave him, Mohammed bin Nayef, a medal — the George Tenet medal. I mean, he was he was really considered a great ally and a great hero. But he reckoned with Jared Kushner and MBS made a very early and unusual visit to Washington. And given that MBS wasn’t even the crown prince was very strange, he and Jared Kushner roughly the same age, met and began a relationship, formed a friendship.

And, Mohammed bin Nayef. And we’ve seen this because I’ve seen text messages that are now part of litigation. So, again, this is not opinion. It’s based on reporting. Mohammed bin Nayef realized that he needed to sort of get in front of Trump. He was planning, he wanted to take over from the king, but legit, who’s very old, but legitimately and needed the back of America. And all the reporting suggests and he even hired a Washington lobbyist to help him do this, who is close to Trump. A guy called Robert Stryk.

And the reporting suggests that Jared, obviously got wind of this and warned MBS. And very quickly, Mohammed bin Nayef was, sort of, thrown in jail and the guy who was helping him wound up fleeing to Canada where he’s lived in exile. And, you know, and again, court papers show that Mohammed bin Salman, he’s locked up his children and he wants him to return to the country. And for obvious reasons, he’s not planning to do that. So before you, but my point is, Mohammed bin Salman owes Jared for helping him become crown prince before you even get to any of the other issues on the table. So and that’s something that I think people really don’t realize.

And Jared helped him become crown prince against the advice of the American intelligence agencies who wanted the other guy. We thought the other guy would be would behave in America’s interests. Okay. So that is a big deal. And then the second point, which is more discussed in Kushner, Inc. and is more widely known, is that, you know, that they were sort of caught having WhatsApp exchanges. And the one big reason that Jared was denied a security clearance and that, you know, when the blockade of Qatar failed in that reason, one of the big reasons that the Saudis and the Emiratis did it is Qatar is very, very rich. When no money was coming, MBS needed another way to get money, which is when he locked all his relatives up in the Ritz Carlton.

And it was sort of, again, widely reported at the time that Jared Kushner was very helpful to him. And he maybe he’s denied this, but in providing US intelligence around that. But the reason MBS locked his relatives up in the Ritz-Carlton was to basically be able to control all their money. So there is that. There’s also you know, we did an arms deal with Saudi Arabia before, and let’s not forget that Jared persuaded his father-in-law, the president, to make the US’s first state visit of the Trump administration, not to a country with shared democratic values, but to Saudi Arabia.

And it was so egregious because the point of that trip was supposedly the theme of it was cooperation in the Gulf. Which is why it’s so ironic, for want of a better word, that a few weeks later, you know, well, Rex Tillerson and James Mattis were minding their own business at a conference in Australia. They woke up to read that the Saudis and the Emiratis were blockading Qatar when we just led an entire state visit that was supposed to be about all these countries getting along.

When you fast forward, it all kind of then culminates, obviously, in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

Right. And then again, I mean, how helpful was Jared to Mohammed bin Salman about that? You know, if anybody tried to lead the whitewashing of that in this country, it was Jared Kushner.

Exactly. So I think kind of moving forward a bit into the election, we’re two weeks out now until we will decide who our next president is. What do you think are the political implications of this for Trump come November? Is this something people should be talking about more, or is it just kind of old news? 

Frustrating to me that yet again, I feel like we’re in Groundhog Day here. Because what happens is that Trump, who operates in plain sight, for better or worse, whatever you think of him, he is, Trump is who he is. But he is so larger than life that he takes up all the focus and even when he was president, I would argue that, what Jared and Ivanka to a lesser degree, but what Jared was doing in terms of self-service as opposed to public service was in plain sight. And people did not pay attention in the way that they should have because everybody was so focused on Trump.

And what he and his unpredictability and what he was going to do minute to minute. And now there is the same focus on Trump, the same sort of breathless, “My God, can you believe he’s done this?” When actually and you know, I understand, you know, people talk about the risk of dictatorship. Just look at Jared and what Jared is doing. There is a massive risk of kleptocracy — blatant, blatant kleptocracy. Jared Kushner is right now and Ivanka are investing in properties in the Balkans.

The Balkans are Putin’s front yard. We have no idea who the bulk of the money coming into these projects is — it’s dark money. The likelihood that that Putin is in there, I would argue, is enormous. And so far the only reporting around this has been very benign. And, you know, Jared gives lots of quotes about, well, you know, I run sort of the gold standard of businesses. But really. Whether he goes into a Trump administration, which he may, never say never with these guys.

He clearly wants a sort of senior statesman role, but he may not need to join a Trump administration to have that. I mean, which is even worse. He can run a kitchen cabinet from Miami. And so I would argue that we should 100% be focused on Jared’s business interests because what it means is that these are all the people who’ve invested with Jared. These are Trump’s IOUs before he even begins. And it’s really, really important. And all the other things, domestic issues that he talks about. But this is I mean, these are creating vulnerabilities for him before he even begins.

The Senate Democrats have opened an investigation. Ron Wyden, senior senator from Oregon, the chair of the Finance Committee, put out a press release in which he laid out some of the allegations that they’re investigating. He wrote that Kushner’s Affinity Partners, which is the private equity firm which now sits atop $3 billion. He called it “a workaround for foreign governments to pay Trump officials without disclosure.” What do you make of the Wyden investigation? Do you think he’s asking the right questions? 

I think he is asking the right questions. But, I think potentially, I think it’s very difficult. There are two problems in getting anywhere. And, you would need, I mean, and especially if Jared Kushner doesn’t go into the White House. I mean, were he to go into the White House, there are obviously there are very clear laws prohibiting him from doing business for himself with foreign countries while he’s there.

But even then, as we’ve seen in the investigations of 666 Fifth Avenue, you need a smoking gun. There is a massive stench around this, but no email that says this specific quid pro quo. So I think Ron Wyden is on a fishing expedition, but I’m not sure he’s going to, unfortunately, I’m not sure he’s going to be able to hook anything. I think he’s absolutely asking the right questions. But the other problem that you have is that there’s going to be or that know there is currently limited interest in Congress to go after this. And that is because of Hunter Biden. Which is very unfortunate because really, you know, you’re comparing apples to oranges, but it is it that does impede I think it dampens the Democrats’ interest from really going full bore after this in the way that I think they should.

The Democrats seem very likely to lose the Senate, which is also what happened to the Democrats’ initial investigation in the House into Kushner. They lost the gavel and therefore, the investigations just stopped.

Exactly.

James Comer subsequently then led his investigation against Hunter Biden. You’ve done quite a bit of investigative reporting into Hunter Biden. As you said, it is not exactly a very clear comparison. But do you think surrounding the congressional investigations into Hunter versus Kushner, has there been a double standard in the media for the amount of attention that they’ve been paid? Each investigation? 

I actually think. There was a double standard. It was wrong. I think I wanted to pursue Hunter Biden actually much more aggressively back when I was at CNN. And I wish I had. That wasn’t the appetite for it. And I find that very frustrating at that time.

What do you attribute that to, do you think? 

I think I attribute it to the fact that Hunter Biden, unfortunately, seems to be one of these presidential relatives in the mold of Tony Rodham or Billy Carter, you know, you know, slightly sad, sad people who who are not affecting foreign policy in real time. I mean, having said that, you know, there was a bad meeting that Joe Biden, when he was vice president, showed up to that Cafe Milano with Hunter that he should not have gone to, in my estimation.

But the, I think that the double standard is that Hunter Biden is clearly so troubled as a human being and is geographically on the other side of the country from the White House. And that is possibly why the media gave him more of a pass, but I wish they hadn’t. I think that was wrong. Actually, I really do.

And so I think, again, just looking forward now, when you did your research for Kushner Inc. and you spoke extensively to White House insiders, to people who were in that orbit. Pondering a second Trump administration, are there figures around Trump now who are akin to Kushner? How do you think the administration will be staffed? Are there any red flags of who might have similar needs maybe to try to make money off of their official position?

Well, sure. I mean, you know, don’t think for a second that Jared and Ivanka won’t find — I mean, they’ll be, they’ll get so rich. I mean, unimaginable wealth. And they, you know, they don’t even need to be in the government. But I wouldn’t underestimate just because they don’t go in. I mean, there’s a lot of talk about and by the way, they may, I wouldn’t — nothing with these two should be off the table.

I mean, we’ve learned, you know, last in 2016, they said they weren’t going to get in and yet they did. So. But you know, but the people who are loyal to Trump, you know, are often the same people who’ve been loyal to actually to Jared and Ivanka. Rick Grenell is in the middle of this, these Balkans deals for Jared, and he is said to be very high up on the candidate list for secretary of state.

And he’s the person who put Jared and Ivanka’s new business deal together. So, I mean, yes, and, you know, and Jared has been openly saying that, you know, he is advising the Trump campaign from afar and that he’s taking people’s calls from around the world. So, again, you know, this is what I talked about, kleptocracy. You know, it’s sort of like “1-800 Jared” — if you’re if you’re a foreign leader who’s got some cash, you want to invest in the new Trump administration, phone Jared.

The accusation around Kushner that, just as you kind of laid out where there is no maybe direct evidence linking this quid pro quo that we can absolutely point to. But the idea that he has been kind of selling foreign policy favors is such an easy concept to digest. Is it a failing of the media that this is not out there? It’s not something that is being discussed? I mean, $3 billion should capture the imagination of the public, you would think. And it just seems like it hasn’t.

Right and it hasn’t, Alex. And what’s even more extraordinary is it’s really not like this couple hides the money. I mean, they are blatantly ostentatious, putting photos on Instagram of all the wealth, the clothes and the parties and the planes. I mean, they’re not hiding a thing. And, you know, I think what worries me a bit is that, you know, in times like this with an election on the doorstep, you know, we tend to be myopic. We tend to look in and not out. And it’s much easier, you know, I mean, people care less about what’s going on in places that that they’re not physically in. So, you know, where, you know, immigration feels so pressing. And so that’s what everybody talks about, the economy.

But, with this, but this — right? It’s too far out. You know? I mean, what has kept America great for so long was, was that the systems of democracy were thought through. I mean, you can hear from my accent, I grew up in England. And, you know, it always strikes me how hard the Americans, the founding fathers, thought to put the wheels, the systems of government in place that we have. But bound up in all of that, it is just as important as our dealings with foreign countries, and it’s just as important that we are not seen — we are not run by people who are for sale, open to the highest bidder. It’s really dangerous when that happens. And it’s really, you know, that is global security at great, great risk. And yeah, I wish people paid more attention to it.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you laid out so well what Kushner potentially did do with the Gulf States, was not in the interests of the United States. I remember so well when Rex Tillerson was pushed out and later spoke publicly, that he accused Kushner of running his own foreign policy behind his back. And, when Rex Tillerson kind of ended up being the voice of reason — it was something really surprising. But he really wanted to try to have America’s best interests at heart and it’s definitely a very concerning topic and it’s hard to know kind of where it goes, especially if Trump is successful in being reelected.

It’s just, well, I think it’s a really — I mean, people just don’t talk about it. But you know what Jared has ultimately proven. You know, in a sense, I hate to say this, the theme of Kushner, Inc. is that all along, for some albeit tragic reasons in his life, he’s thought the rules don’t apply to him. And one could say Trump similarly thinks rules don’t apply to him.

But, Jared, and the optics of what he’s done since leaving the Trump White House, the money he’s made from all the people he sucked up to while he was running America’s foreign policy. And now it looks like he ought to be able to do it again. It’s sort of, I hate to say this, it shows that for Jared Kushner, at the very least, going into government is a very profitable enterprise. Well, that’s not, that’s not how it’s supposed to be.

I saw you were pretty critical of a New York Times profile of Kushner.

Yes, I was. Because they paraphrased some of his quotes. And, you know, I know Jared Kushner and I know that his words, his specific word choice often has meaning. And what that means is he, I suspect, is that he asked to go on background for a reason. And, you know, look, I just think that we need to apply the most rigorous journalistic standards possible to these people that shouldn’t be background. I mean, this is we’re past the point where access is what we’re seeking. We want accountability.

Absolutely. Especially I think I kind of went back through there — one of the most kind of telling and really surprising parts about Affinity Partners was at the beginning Kushner was just sitting on the money. He wasn’t really investing it. The people who had given the money weren’t seeing any kind of return. Parking it anywhere else would have. And he was taking a $25 million a year fee to sit on the money.

Yeah. Well that’s what led, as I think I’m right in saying — Ron Wyden, this latest letter is like, how can anyone, you know, be forgiven for thinking that this is the exact appearance of quid pro quo, that you get all this money invested on a management fee and you’re not doing anything with it.

So that’s nonsensical.

Yeah. I mean, is there any way to entertain that there is some plausible explanation for it?

No. No. And I’ve you know, I’m plugged into — I mean, I’ve written books about business as well as books on politics and real estate. No, I mean, there’s nobody in the private equity world to whom that makes any sense whatsoever.