Tucker Carlson Palled Around With Alex Jones in 2016 to Pick Up ‘Tips and Tricks About How to do his Job,’ Says Charlie Warzel

Charlie Warzel, a former technology writer for the New York Times and Buzzfeed, joined the Bulwark Podcast on Tuesday and was asked by host Charlie Sykes to explain the relationship between Fox News’s top-rated host Tucker Carlson and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

“So Jones has just gone from an absolutely absurd figure who should, in a rational, you know, completely fictitious Earth 2.0 be a pariah to being a role model, even for Tucker Carlson. What is the relationship between Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones?” Sykes asked Warzel about halfway through the podcast.

“Yeah, it’s I mean, and there’s a lot we don’t know that may actually be revealed from the messages in his phone, which have been turned over to certain committees,” Warzel began, noting that during Jones’s recent defamation trial, where he was found liable for some $49 million in damages, his text messages were inadvertently handed over to the plaintiff’s lawyer.

Those text messages were then requested by the House Jan. 6 committee, in which Jones has been a central figure.

“Carlson and the raving Infowars ranter trade text messages on a daily basis, according to two people familiar with their relationship,” the Daily Beast reported last week, adding, “If made public, these sources said, the text messages would be ‘highly embarrassing’ for Carlson.”

Warzel went on to describe a source of his who worked at Jones’s conspiracy theory show, InfoWars, and noted that the source, name Josh, once told him about a visit by Carlson.

“And he, during that time, told me sort of out of the blue that, you know, one time in, I want to say it was 2016, I might have that wrong, it’s in my notes, Tucker visited the InfoWars offices in Austin, Texas, and kind of palled around for the day with Jones,” Warzel said.

“And Jones was showing him 911 videos trying to get him to, you know, to come around to the 911 conspiracy theory. But as it was described to me, it was this sort of, kind of friendly, collegial time. And, well, Josh, the former Infowars employee, isn’t sure whether, you know, Tucker was there to like, pick up, you know, tips and tricks about how to do his job. It’s very clear that he sees Alex as some kind of contemporary,” he continued,

“Right. Like he might not say that, but it’s very clear that, you know, they’re in the same general business,” Warzel continued, adding:

And so, you know, what Josh told me is he sees bits of Alex in what Tucker does, and he sees it increasingly, which I think is important, that there’s more and more being cribbed from that playbook.

And the thing that I pointed out was Alex is popular, or Alex gets his popularity to crossover sometimes to the mainstream when he’s outlandish.

Right. So it’s almost like this Trojan Horse for some of the ideas. You know, Alex Jones’s most famous clip is he’s yelling about chemicals in the water that are turning frogs gay. Right. And he’s screaming about it. And it’s it was for a very long time on the Internet, this viral clip, because it’s ridiculous. But at the heart of it is a conspiracy theory

“And Tucker sometimes is the same way. Right. He will throw up some ridiculous chyron on his show and or, you know, he’ll have that ridiculous face as he interviews somebody about, you know, gypsies or, you know, what have you. And people will screenshot that and say, meanwhile, on Fox News, you know, put that on Twitter or, you know, some of his ridiculousness just kind of comes out and that does the job of actually spreading Tucker around. You know, the kids, his message is, is sort of quietly being spread as people are trying to say, look at this ridiculous guy,” Warzel concluded.

Sykes then asked Warzel, “Why does it work?”

“Because I mean, Tucker looks at Alex Jones and goes, okay, this works. How if I am like slightly more, you know, uptown on this, you know, how can I profit from it? What is the appeal?” Sykes added.

Warzel answered by explaining the basic appeal of conspiracy theories, arguing that what Jones or Carlson are promoting are ideas more easily digested than an actual policy discussion.

“I think if I had to narrow it down to one thing, it would be simplicity. I think that life is very difficult for a lot, most people, surely for most people life is difficult,” Warzel responded.

“It is complicated. It is shades of gray. It is sometimes, some people, sometimes your worst enemy has a good point. You know, like it’s the world is complex. And people especially like Alex, offer absolute simplicity. Right? You feel magical,” he concluded.

Listen to the clip above or hear the full episode here