No comment required – of the three commentators, Stewart is the only one who makes any sense.

I tend to agree with you, Bill. I can’t figure out the point Levin and Limbaugh were trying to make.

I think Jon Stewart needs some history lessons.

“Free public libraries are the result of the progressive movement to communally share books.”

The Romans beat the “progressives” to the concept by a good 2,000 years and 1850s Boston, with help from that well known and revered progressive John Jacob Astor, by well over 150 years.

Come on, Jon. Beck could have educated himself in that liberal bastion Rome under the Emperor Augustus or in Boston under John Jacob Astor with nary a progressive in sight. Great satire and humor must be based on truth not just your wishful thinking.

Becks dim-witted performance has been universally panned by everybody that can think for themselves.
LOL@ “Erasable Truth Board” !

Wikipedia strikes again.

For those on the left who “can’t figure out the point” Rush and Mark Levine are making, let me explain it to you.

Like me, they have a deep and abiding hatred of the Democratic Party and its sympathizers. Over the years we have seen the Democratic Party lie, cheat, deceive, and exhibit outright contempt for the law, all the while exhibiting a sanctimonius, “holier then thou” attitude. In their arrogance, the Democrats refuse to even entertain the notion that perhaps, just perhaps, some of their prescriptions for America may be wrong.

The words of a professor who witnessed the 1968 student takeover at Columbia University are equally valid today:

“Again and again one is struck by the posture of complete self-righteousness and of unyielding moral absolutism in the attitudes and actions of the radical leaders. “I am totally right and completely moral, and you-if you disagree with me-are absolutely wrong and wicked….You have no rights that I must respect, and you must agree to accept everything I demand….” ”

These same radicals later disrupted the Democratic convention in Chicago and finally, in 1972, with the McGovern candidacy, took over the Democratic Party. Although they have grown older, their juvenile insistence on moral absolutism has never left them. This secular fanaticism is displayed by the radical Democrats in the House and Senate and their allies in various media outlets, ranging from the New York Times to the Daily Kos.

This is why many conservatives do not agree with Glenn Beck’s attack on Republicans. While the Republicans may indeed be corrupt, they are not a threat to the Constitution or our individual freedoms.

On the other hand, the Democrats are “true believers” who will stop at nothing in their drive to impose their values on American society. For the Democrats, the Constitution is a hindrance, a mere scrap of paper to be ignored whenever circumstances dictate. And the only individual freedoms they recognize is their “freedom” to do whatever is necessary, legal of illegal, moral of immoral, to impose their will on the majority.

Um, Rome is not in the United States! Perhaps a geography lesson?

It isn’t just Limbaugh and Stewart with strong reaction to his CPAC speech, it’s everybody. Here’s another short video that features the media debating his role in the Republican party:

http://bit.ly/9DjtWF

You’re a sweetheart Grannie, but as wrong as can be. “Publicly” financed library. Mr Astor donated money to finance libraries in New York, that later merged to become the New York Public Library in 1895. (Wikipedia rules!) So…. If you want me to tell you the difference between publicly funded and privately funded, well, put your snuggie on. We’ll cuddle up and have a good talk.

And you missed the point completely while you were trying to “burn” Stewart. The PUBLIC library is a progressive institution.

Great satire and humor THAT IS based on truth, not just Grannie’s poor research.

Roxsteady, no joke. Next you’re going to be telling me that Scott Brown is not a Republican.

If I must I must go into a long winded explanation which one could only hope would not be necessary IF one were talking with reasonable open minded people who were capable of understanding a point sans a detailed road map.

Jon Stewart said ““Free public libraries are the result of the progressive movement to communally share books.”

I dispute that. The concept of publicly financed open to the public libraries originated with the very early imperial Roman Empire. They did not spring up as an unique concept due to Western/American progressive thought.

Secondly, John Jacob Astor was instrumental and financially backed the Boston Public Library, as best as I could tell the first by ordinance publicly financed open to the public, in the 1850s. If you want to claim that he was a hard core progressive and the idea of open free libraries were born with the progressive movement please do so but note I don’t agree with you.

Although no one brought this up let me put the idea to rest so I can be finished with this. I said “Come on, Jon. Beck could have educated himself in that liberal bastion Rome under the Emperor Augustus or in Boston under John Jacob Astor with nary a progressive in sight.”

I naturally meant that he could have achieved an equivalent body of knowledge based on the knowledge available and in circulation at the time. Can’t too be careful with pack that roams this site sniffing and circling always ready to pounce.

As for my conclusion that “Great satire and humor must be based on truth not just your wishful thinking.” its only an opinion and agree or not but at least you have now been spoon fed the facts that I used to form my opinion.

POUNCE! From our boys over at Wikipedia… Indirectly, John Jacob Astor also influenced the establishment of a public library in Boston. At the time of his death, Astor bequeathed $400,000 to New York to establish a public library there. Because of the cultural and economic rivalry between Boston and New York, this bequest prompted more discussion of establishing a public library in Boston.

As I said earlier, Mr. Astor helped finance the NY Public Library. So, no, he didn’t finance the Boston Public Library. I appreciate your thoughts, but if you’re going to formulate your opinion based on the facts, please make sure they are indeed facts before coming out with a statement about how Stewart’s statement is just wishful thinking. We all make mistakes (well, some of us. This dude ImNotBlue who hangs out around here is flawless), but wrong is wrong. And telling someone else they’re wrong when you in fact are wrong is…wrong. (Too many wrongs make a right. I think it’s 6 wrongs before something becomes right).

Ben Franklin is credited with subscription libraries in the “new world” through his Junto gatherings. not really a progressive idea…but it is a currently a public establishment. so through a hour speech, the gotcha moment was about public libraries. wow.

Wow, Stewarts coup de gras is pointing out that libraries are paid for by tax dollars? OH SHIT HE JUST BURNED GLENN Beck….hey wait. That was a rather weak target.

Actually, Glenn burned himself. And it wasn’t a “gotcha” moment. I love that “gotcha moments” are the right-wings new favorite whine line. It wasn’t like Stewart asked Beck where he does all his learnin’ and Glenn responded “at the library” after denouncing the progressive movement. That, I guess loosely, would be a “gotcha moment.” This is an overused term that just doesn’t fit in most arguments. Get a library card?

Gleen Beck is his own worst enemy. He probably should have put down the Hardy Boys books and picked up something of substance. I think I remember reading that Hardy Boys, though. The one where they rail against progressives and how they’re destroying this country. I won’t give away the ending, but let’s just say that the progressives “win.”

Well, this is not my life’s work. Wiki was the only readily source that gave the date, 1852, and the John Jacob Astor info was in other links. I know it is amazing but I already knew about the Alexandria Library, the Roman libraries and that libraries were a long standing tradition in our country.

What I didn’t know was whether there were any that were open to the public and what type of funding, privat, public or a combination, was used so shoot me.

If you don’t accept Wiki for such basic info perhaps you should confine your endeavors to more intellectually pure sites.

James, thanks for the concise to the point says it all comment.

Not that I give a shit, but:

Andrew Carnegie: Among his many philanthropic efforts, the establishment of public libraries throughout the United States, the United Kingdom, and other English-speaking countries was especially prominent. Carnegie libraries, as they were commonly called, were built in many places. The first was opened in 1883 in Dunfermline. His method was to build and equip, but only on condition that the local authority matched that by providing the land and a budget for operation and maintenance. To secure local interest, in 1885, he gave $500,000 to Pittsburgh for a public library, and in 1886, he gave $250,000 to Allegheny City for a music hall and library; and $250,000 to Edinburgh for a free library. In total Carnegie funded some 3,000 libraries, located in 47 US states, and also in Canada, the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, the West Indies, and Fiji. He also donated £50,000 to help set up the University of Birmingham in 1899.

That’s cute and all, Azarkhan, but you overshot on this one. These libraries don’t run themselves, my friend. I can give you a million dollars to build a library, but that’s not going to get you through the next…. infinity years. The philanthropic donations can get these things rolling, but the public ultimately pays for the library to run.

….Not that I give a shit.

I realize that this is only tangentially related to the Stewart clip, but it marks the third time that I’ve heard Beck refer to prohibition as a “progressive” solution. Two of the times, I’m thinking that his history is suspect and once he just listed it on his blackboard, but I’ve always been under the impression that prohibition was in response to bible-thumpers.

…and for that matter, though I’m reluctant to bring religion into it, but I’m under the impression that Beck converted to LDS which famously forbids the consumption of alcohol as part of their moral code.

Azarkhan: “a deep and abiding hatred”. Wow. With that kind of attitude, no wonder our political discourse is in the state it’s in.

tjl says:
February 23, 2010 at 1:31 pm

That’s cute and all, Azarkhan, but you overshot on this one. These libraries don’t run themselves, my friend. I can give you a million dollars to build a library, but that’s not going to get you through the next…. infinity years. The philanthropic donations can get these things rolling, but the public ultimately pays for the library to run.

….Not that I give a shit.

That’s cute, tjl. But what does that have to do with Jon’s CONTENTION that public libraries were the idea of the progressive movement.

Actually tjl, you burnt yourself. your complaining about the right-wing overuse of “gotcha” is pretty weak when considering your usage of “POUNCE aka GOTCHA.” one in the same so maybe you should come back and try reframing the arguement again. “The PUBLIC library is a progressive institution” is a bold statement…so bold in fact that the Constitution was change or better yet nudged in order to have it established! Yeah. I question your understanding of the connection between public library and progressive institution…please enlighten me. I really hope Wikipedia isn’t your only source of info.

Nice photo.

The worst idiots than the sht flinging Baboon Beck are his followers.

I won’t mention names because I wouldn’t want the risk of offending Mark Koldys, Janet Hawkins, Jeff Merrill, the Assley, Fox Fan, Ricky Retardo, Igotabluearse, Dummy, Blackthong, Cryssyssy, vloodystool and, forgive me because the list so short of clowns that jack off nightly with the “all important demo”

It doesn’t matter what ridiculous lunatic conspiracy the Baboon spins nightly, the unconditional Baboon kissers love him. Because they are morons.

I find it difficult to imagine that all you enlightened and brilliant people have missed the point.

The point is: Glenn Beck brought to our attention that the Republicans have (in far too many ways) acted as irresponsibly as have the Democrats, and that in order to DESERVE AND REGAIN the support of those of us who are tired of their irresponsibility, they must admit they’ve been wrong in the past and they must resolve to not make the same mistakes again. Now, that wasn’t too difficult for you, was it?

What must they do? Again, this is simple: The Republicans must adhere reverently to the Constitution–this document MUST be THE guiding document in all they do! Conversely, if a proposal cannot be supported by the Constitution, such resulting actions must be avoided. Secondly, the Republicans MUST obey the seven tenets of fiscal responsibility. Briefly stated, they are:

1. Never reward bad behavior.

2. Do NOT throw good money after bad.

3. Do NOT try to spend our way into prosperity.

4. Accept and acknowlege there is no such thing as “FREE.”

5. Live within our means.

6. Restore our manufacturing base by elimintating the regulations, taxes, and other causes that have driven manufacturing from our shores.

7. Realize that the free market principles that have made capitalism work must never again be perverted.

As we must apply ALL these fundamental rules to our own lives, our government must apply these principles to our country. If they do not, we are no better than any third world country…and I find that totally unacceptable.

Don’t YOU?

Azarkhan, reading your little hate filled screed there, I was struck by the fact that almost every single thing you accuse “all Democrats” of doing are actually things the REPUBLICAN party does. I have to quesiton what color the sky is in your world? I mean seriously,you are accusing the Democrats of pushing their morals on people? Really?

In fact your statement here:

“Over the years we have seen [them] lie, cheat, deceive, and exhibit outright contempt for the law, all the while exhibiting a sanctimonius, “holier then thou” attitude. In their arrogance, the Democrats refuse to even entertain the notion that perhaps, just perhaps, some of their prescriptions for America may be wrong. ”

may be the best summary of the Bush presidency that I have seen. They did whatever the heck they wanted to, completely disregarding any law because they believed they were ABOVE the law. They used fear to take away personal freedoms and illegally spy on their own citizens. They violated international law and convention due to their own moral absolutism that the ends justify any means. And yet you are railing on the Democrats for these things? Have you no ability to see what is happening right in front of your eyes? Or is it just that you are so blinded by your hatred and so full of your own self-righteousness and unyielding moral absolutism that you have to twist and distort what you see in the world so that it fits into your own worldview?

You need to wake the heck up and take a look at what occurred in the past decade. Because if you can’t see the horrific threat to the Constitution and individual freedoms that occurred from 2001-2008 then you are either blind or intentionally not looking.

Right-wingers AKA conservitards’ first principle: Impose self-proclaimed ‘superior moral system’ on all at any cost.
Say or do *anything* so long as success is in acquiring and retaining power.

Torture-justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Murder- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Larceny- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Industrial scale election fraud- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Demonize and dehumanize as insects and animals any human being that is not in the program- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Hatred and persecution of women- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Hatred and persecution of gays- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Treason- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.
Aggressive war- justifiable in the name of God USA Inc.

@James
Actually a subscription library is not the same as a public library. A subscription requires fees and membership, thus it is generally not available to the entire public, only members who can afford the fees. It would be more accurate to say he developed the idea of circulating libraries in America. Public libraries in America as we know them today were established roughly around the 19th century. Also I do not think pointing out someone’s stupid remark and then pointing out such remark, as stupid, qualifies as a “gotcha moment” (which is what Jon was doing). An example of a “gotcha moment” would be as such: you said “so bold in fact that the Constitution was change or better yet nudged in order to have it established!” So I ask, hmmm Do you think all changes to the constitution are wrong or just this particular change to the constitution? The hope is that you’d say , Yes all changes to the constitution are wrong, then I would prompt you to read article V of the Constitution which allows changes to the Constitution via amendments. In fact the Bill of Rights were changes to the Constitution (original Cons. ratified 1787, Bill of Rights – 1791). The main reason people, legally, cannot own slaves and women can vote are due to changes in the Constitution in the form of amendments (note I said legally, clearly activism played a role too). As a side note, after actually reading the responses carefully, tjl was mocking Grannie with the word pounce due to her saying, “Can’t too be careful with pack that roams this site sniffing and circling always ready to pounce” (which is remarkably paranoid), at least that is my interpretation of his/her use of pounce, which is not the same as gotcha.

ooops, correction: Franklin deserves credit for subscription libraries as you claim, not circulating. Even though if I recall correctly the two are pretty much the same thing. Perhaps more correct to say he popularized the concept of circulating books in America.

@Grannie
I think you misrepresented Stewart’s claim. He did not say the progressive’s invented the library or that it was uniquely their idea; “resulted from” does not mean invented. He was stating that it was during of the progressive movement in America that libraries shifted from subscription to public. It seems fair to say the progressive sentiment influenced both the expansion and conversion of subscription to public libraries. The movement was after all, about giving more power to the public rather than private interests though reform (here’s a short intro to the Progressive Movement’s reforms – http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/modules/progressivism/index.cfm). The reason libraries in America are “free” and available to all is due to the progressive movement (roughly 1880-1920s) and it’s philosophy, along with Andrew Carnigie’s donations (who felt it was the duty of the wealthy to distribute their wealth responsibly for institutions that served the greater/common good). Carniegie’s only stipulation for the libraries was that there had to be a system of taxation to keep them operating. Stewart was talking specifically about libraries in America, which was the context of the clip (both Glenn Beck and Stewart were talking about U.S. History), so U.S. History not World History. A fair critique would be that perhaps the first public library in America was actually opened in New Hampshire, in 1833. Also, libraries have pretty much been around since written civilization and it was the Greeks who propelled the idea of libraries, even though they were private not public. The Library of Alexandria around 300 b.c.e., located in Egypt, was built under Greek rule (not Roman!!!). The Romans seized Alexandria, Egypt in 80 b.c.e.. However, not everyone had access to the Library of Alexandria (only those with proper scholarly or literary credentials), which was generally the same of libraries in the Roman Empire. Typically, the poor, children, slaves, and women did not have access to libraries in Rome, which raises the question if this constitutes a public library (they certainly were not available to all people, thus not open to the public). I think though there were smaller libraries available to the masses in the baths, but the larger more substantial libraries were only available to scholars and the wealthy. My assumption is that because the libraries in the baths were available to all people , the Roman Empire generally receives credit for the first public library. The worst part is that Glenn Beck, if he did his homework, would have known that the Socialist and communist parties actually were opposed to the progressives, as they felt the progressives were not radical enough. The idea that socialism, communism, and progressivism are identical is foolish, it’s almost like claiming Protestants and Catholics are the same. And Progressivism a cancer??!! I mean doesn’t Beck realize his hero, Thomas Paine, supported ideas that the later progressives supported, specifically a progressive tax, women’s voting rights, and welfare programs. You should be chastising Glenn Beck for not knowing his history or don’t claim people need history lessons in general.

This whole debate about libraries seems to be an intellectual’s attack on Glenn Beck for not being college-educated. This argument might have more credibility if America’s colleges and universities were not graduating so many complete morons — and giving tenure to many of them as well.

Armed with the approriate syllabus, and a desire to learn, nearly everyone can learn more about constitutional history and political theory. What is refreshing about Glenn Beck is that he is not just telling his viewers what he KNOWS, he is passing along what he has DISCOVERED.

No one else is doing this, because they are not interested in learning anything that might challenge the beliefs they already hold. I certainly can’t imagine Keith Olbermann or Sean Hannity making a new discovery that would cause them to change beliefs held for decades.

The headline exaggerates Limbaugh’s criticism of Beck’s speech, and BTW that 29-second clip was hardly an accurate summation of Limbaugh’s comments about Beck. But Beck and Limbaugh differ in many respects, so it is natural that they will publicly disagree on occasion. Beck is a libertarian, Limbaugh is a conservative, and while libertarianism and conservatism overlap they are defnitely not the same thing. Additionally, Limbaugh hates RINOs, but he is a Republican; Beck seems to be less fond of the Republican Party than Rush.

Well, I don’t think anyone attacked Beck for lacking a college education.. It is more for generally lacking pertinent knowledge for whatever he is criticizing at any given moment. It is perplexing that you dislike what you perceive as an attack on lacking college education and then proceed to attack those with college educations, Your point I assume is we shouldn’t judge someone based upon education or lack thereof (which is a great one), but by attacking those with college education, you are just as guilty of those you accuse.
The general problem (in my view) is that Beck spent an hour attacking Progressivism when he clearly displayed a lack of knowledge to what it is or stands for. He could have bothered to do diligent research and thus could have made an actual thoughtful and responsible critique. It is intellectually lazy and dishonest to not understand what you critique, blatantly misrepresent it, and then demonize it (Beck appears generally consistent in doing this). This is not the mark of an open-minded or free thinker, nor someone who is open to new ideas beyond their own prejudices.

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