Seriously?  This guy is running for President?  

i dont agree mr.cain, if a group wants to build a church or mosque in their community for themselves to worship its fine with me

“First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me —  and there was no one left to speak for me.”
[Martin Niemoller]

Absolutely heinous.  

100 years ago the people trying to have mosques banned would have strung ole Herman up from a tree. Now he’s on their side. Look how far we’ve come as a nation.

Cain!  He’s a “real” black man AND a real bigot!

We may not agree on the definition of Christianity, but on this, we are in 100% agreement.  How tragic.

Oh man, this guy should be toast but the scary thing is there is in fact a large group that he is pandering to that loves the shit that he’s shoveling.

How many times have people said over and over again, people that support him that America’s laws were based on Christian values.  This guy is so selling his soul he doesn’t even know what he’s talking about.

Mr Cain, The Americans do and have used Religion to elect officials for a long time, although the constitution says do not do such a thing we ignored it. now you see why it was there!  Always asking and wanting to now a persons Religion and beliefs to vote on them was wrong from the start. At which point Church has entered State in my opinion and one Religion is at right as any other. like it or not Americans have allowed church to creep into Politics and State….karma once again…

Isn’t it amazing?  We go from being a country based on a certain religion’s values to being one built on separation of church and state, depending on which religion is being discussed.

The hypocrisy knows no bounds.  The fact that this comes from a man who, 60+ years ago, would have been the target of this kind of bigotry is just tragic.  The more things change, the more they stay the same, no?

When I hear one of these right-wing ignoramuses call themselves a “Constitutional Conservative” I know they have never read it and certainly don’t understand it.

 You libturd Morons want “separation of church and state’…until there is ‘separation of church and state’

If you wanted to fix the health insurance crisis for about a third the cost of Obamacare, just build free government clinics in poor neighborhoods for primary and ER care, and send patients to the VA Hospital for specialist care.  And put someone like Herman Cain over it.  I hope he gets a cabinet post.  For the uninitiated, this is what a bad MF looks like.

 Seriously? Are you a racist?

I’m just amazed how much you right-wing morons hate the Constitution you claim to worship.

you hate-

Eminent Domain
Birthright citizenship
incorporation of Bill of Rights to states
Establishment Clause
ban on poll tests
womens suffrage
direct election of Senators
Supremacy (of federal govt) Clause
Tax and Spend Clause
Freedom of Press/right to blaspheme

I could go on and on but you wouldn’t recognize most of the arcane Constitutional arguments

You know that is actually a very good plan… applauds..can we now have all in congress also use the VA? as their health insurance or allow them to buy their own out of pocket?

 You really are a cubicle, diaper wearing Moron.

Herman Cain can eat a dick!

The fundamental flaw in Obamacare is the Utopian idea that all people are entitled to the same quality of care regardless of their financial means.  The Brits created a serious of cheap government clinics at the end of WW II that morphed into their current system.  All government agencies, state and federal, go through changes over time.  A massive program like this has to walk before it can run.  What we will see with Obamacare if it is not halted is an ocean of red ink when those who are supposedly “forced” to buy into the healthcare system don’t pay, regardless of the best efforts of the IRS.  By the time this happens, Obama will be working with Rachel on his memoirs and how grand it has all been.

As a life long Democrat I say ALL republicans should die!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy is a contender for a major-party nomination, has appeared in nationally-televised debates, and invited to appear on a major Sunday talk show, and yet he doesn’t have the foggiest idea what the free exercise or establishment clauses of the First Amendment mean. Last I checked, the mosque is not a government entity, so how the establishment clause applies is anyone’s guess.

The one inspiring thing about Mr. Cain is that it demonstrates that ANYONE, no matter how ignorant, can still run for president in the U.S.A.!

Ridiculous.  The new health insurance system is tiered.

1- private insurance at the top
2- Medicare
3- Medicaid

As has always been the case providers can choose which payers to accept.   The big flaw in the new system will be the lack of docs for the newly eligible Medicaid patients.

This guy is a contender for a major-party nomination, has appeared in nationally-televised debates, and invited to appear on a major Sunday talk show, and yet he doesn’t have the foggiest idea what the free exercise or establishment clauses of the First Amendment mean. Last I checked, the mosque is not a government entity, so how the establishment clause applies is anyone’s guess.

The one inspiring thing about Mr. Cain is that it demonstrates that ANYONE, no matter how ignorant, can still run for president in the U.S.A.!

 Am I the only one to ‘flag’ this?

What kind of America Does Mr. Cain want???????  This SOB!!!should remember what happened to the African American churches in the early days of our America….What a pathetic individual!!!

He’s just mad that Muslims don’t buy sausage pizza.

So if a black guy is on the right, you can disagree with him without it being racist.  

Um, no.  If a black guy is a bigot, you can call him a bigot no matter where he falls politically.  

That’s actually not the same as holding protest signs that accuse him of being foreign or depict him as an African witch doctor, believe it or not.

I helped!

I did.  I also flagged one of yours as the guidelines here are clear that it’s not okay to post

“Any posts that are personal insults directed at another commenter”

The concerns of the people of Murfreesboro that the Islamic Center has ties to Hamas and terrorism weren’t mentioned here. Sharia law would interfere with others right to practice their own religion, for which we have that right by our laws.
I think the folks in Murfreesboro have every right to ban organizations involved in those types of activities, religious or otherwise.
If the organizers of the center reject the elements who believe in imposing Sharia Law and it has been proven that there are no ties to Hamas and terrorism, then there should be no complaint. Right now that proof does not exist.
I think Herman Cain could articulated it a lot better.

Um, how on earth is a mosque being built any sort of infringement on that?  When is the last time any “libturd” decried a church’s existence as a violation of the separation of church and state?

Oh, what’s that?  Never?  Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Moreover, using the power of the government to prevent a mosque from being built is the PRECISE sort of infringement that Cain claims to be decrying!

What stellar debating skills you have.

So that also counts with Obama, since he spent twenty years listening to a racist pastor. 

Still trying to figure out when he personally adopted or perpetuated any of those views…

Look, I think all religion is ridiculous, so I’m not going to get into this.  But by your argument, Mitt Romney is racist for being Mormon, Michele Bachmann hates Catholics, and Sarah Palin is a misogynist who despises women in the form of “witches.”

Since Obama called Wright his mentor, I’d say yeah, he accepted Wright’s racist views.  But of course, after he started campaigning, he threw him under the bus, so all is good. 

Mr Cain, I’ll bet you have some wonderful qualities, but this isn’t one of them. You’re dead wrong. The Muslims in that community have been there for decades and been good citizens. They have a constitutional right to worship and build a place of worship. IF and only IF and when , they make a move to cross the line and try to impose Sharia law on the local legal system then liberals will stand beside conservatives to prevent that, just as we fight to prevent Christians from trying to make their religious beliefs into law.
Until that very unlikely event, it is absolutely unAmerican to deny them their place of worship based on some irrational unsubstantiated fear.

As I said, this applies to everyone I mentioned.

Then they should be required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the local Muslims are trying to do that. Even then, Christians have been trying to get their beliefs to be law since this country began and we have prevented it fairly successfully. The fear of Sharia law is irrational paranoia, and should not be used as an excuse to practice religious bigotry or deny people the rights our soldiers have died to defend.

Let’s take a look at your tiered system, starting at the bottom.  Where do you think Medicaid patients go for treatment?  To private hospitals who bill the government outrageous sums for care.  Anyone who has ever had an uninsured hospital admission knows what I mean.  Don’t try to tell me different.  I work in an office that pursues Medicaid reimbursement.  Millions of dollars spent by taxpayers for one unfortunate case. The idea that the government is now going to let these private hospitals bill the government for caring for the poor scares me to death.  Medicare has been teetering on insolvency for years.  And private insurance?  They are in hog heaven with Obamacare.  They get to bill the government for all the indigent ER expenses they used to absorb as a humanitarian requirement on the face of things but actually imbed into the health insurance rates to be paid by others. I say send the night fighters and indigents to a cheap government clinic, with cheap government doctors so these expenses are removed from the rate base.

only the people he mentioned, not obama lol

Hopefully For people like you life will be short

I don’t think they have anyone working on weekends.  Lizzie will show up to work tomorrow and hold up half the comments in moderation in reaction to what people posted over the weekend.

Mr.Cain’s is right on point. The argument with Islam in this country is not religion, it’s Sharia law. Everyone is free to worship in their own way but, that’s as far goes. If you want to live in this country you abide by our Constitutional and Statute law or you don’t live here!  

Those rules about attending intolerant churches don’t apply with Obama, and should be overlooked.  

And Michelle Bachmann just quit her church that believes the Pope is the anti-christ:

“We identify the anti-Christ as the papacy. This is an historical judgment based on Scripture.”

–Website of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the church to which Presidential candidate Michele Bachmann belonged until one week before her campaign began.

 Talk about politically expedient.

Apparently he is competing with Bachmann for the crazy vote.

Would Dan Savage be forced to wear a burqa under Sharia Law?

Muslims just love gays.  That’s why the left is always speaking up for them.

Today it is banning Mosques just because you disagree with Islam..
What is next?
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not very popular.
They knock on my front door all the time. This annoys Nature Freak.
Should we ban their Kingdom Halls?
Herman Cain obviously does not believe he has a chance in Hades to become POTUS. Expect Cain to now say more and more outrageous things just to get attention.
Sad.

Um, how on earth does building a private mosque equate to Sharia law?  Do you even think about what you say before you say it?

Out of curiosity, is it safe to assume you have been equally outraged every time Mr. Cain, or any other conservative, begins waxing eloquent on the Christian nature of this country, and how its laws should reflect the same?  Or is your constitutional fidelity limited to Muslims?

Thanks for speaking up.  It’s an important issue, and all Americans should be troubled by this, not just liberals.

Sharia Law is already illegal in the USA – whether its Christian Sharia or Islamic Sharia.

For instance, both religions call for death to blasphemers.  But killing a blasphemer is clearly murder. 

So… Judaism isn’t a religion because it has the 10 Commandments?

So… Christianity isn’t a religion because it relies upon Judaism for (some of) its morality rules and more that were provided but its prophet? 

This is a non-argument. All religions have a moral code. Some forms of Islam incorporate something called Sharia into their legal code… much like the United States of America has incorporated aspects of some Christian sects into its legal code. You know, like blue laws, limits on abortion and contraception, fighting marriage equality, etc.

The big joke, of course, is that many elements of Sharia are part of the moral code of ultra conservative Christians. The only real difference between ultra conservative Christians and ultra conservative Muslims is pork, fashion, number of wives, and how many of them get caught paying for prostitutes or cheating on their spouse(s).

Eminent Domain stinks!
Why did you add this?
BTW, I am no Conservative.

What a crock of shit. The bad is starting to outweigh the good when it comes to this guy, which is a shame because he has some really good ideas and makes the best case for the fair tax over the flat tax that I’ve heard. Cain screws up on two fronts here:

1.) The Constitution does not separate church and state, that’s a phrase from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury baptists; the First Amendment prevents the government from ESTABLISHING a religion.
2.) That same First Amendment protects the right to build a mosque by preventing Congress (and vicariously the state legislatures) from passing laws that infringe on free speech and expression.

I haven’t been able to find convincing evidence of any actual ties to Hamas among the folks working for the Murfreesboro Islamic Center. The ones I’ve met so far seem like perfectly nice folks. I thought in this country, we treat folks as innocent until proven guilty, but you’re advocating the opposite: they’re guilty until they’re proven innocent. I have never heard an American muslim suggest that Sharia law is to be imposed on any non-muslim. I think Herman Cain is pandering to the paranoid right-wing.

Yes, Sharia law is unlawful in this country but, that is not stopping some Muslims from trying to force this country to honor Sharia law. That was Mr.Cains point, and I agree with it.

Let’s see..
Savage wishes death to the Republicans…

Meanwhile…
Muslims not only wish death upon, but also kill gays.

Savage appears to be on the correct side once again !!!

Maybe you should re-read Mr.Cain’s remarks. That’s what I’m directing my remarks to.

And don’t forget that Obama’s ‘mentor’, Rev. Wright, is best friends with the leader of the Nation of Islam.  And they don’t like gays at all.  And the left never makes any connection to any of this. 

 Is this really the direction for the country the GOP envisions.Cain is despicable,we know that but Bachmann doesn’t care to correct her lack of history,therefore leaving many misinformed.The republican party today represents everything that is wrong with America.

So, somehow, in your view, a religion, any religion has the right to overrule the people of that community?  

You are an imbecile.  To use the term racist so willy-nilly is disgusting and ignorant, which the video above illustrates.

Keep acting like rednecks Conservatives, you’ve lost the good will of the American people and you’re going to continue to lose elections.

 *LOL* You do know that people can look at your DISQUS profile, right? You’ve posted over 2100 comments on Fox News websites.

You suck at life. Get a job.

When did Obama’s church oppose others practicing their own religious beliefs?

Where?  Where has Sharia law taken hold?  Where has it even been attempted?  

In Dearborn, Michigan, where there are liquor stores and strip clubs on every corner?  Is that where?

I read his remarks.  I still fail to see the leap from mosque to Sharia law.  

He thinks that taking issue with the bigotry of a black man is *just like* depicting a black man as an African witch doctor, or spitting on black civil rights heroes.  Don’t mind his ignorance.

Why do you mind when Republicans attend ‘intolerant’ churches, but don’t mind when Obama does it? 

Now, this is an excellent example of the Straw Man fallacy.  Um, no, if you disagree with someone on a matter of policy that goes against your core beliefs, you are not a racist if the person you disagree with is black.  Pretty much, anyone who gets up there and says that mosques should be banned from communities, I’m going to be against regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.  Anyone who thinks its cool to deny Americans their right to build a house of worship I will argue against.  If Cain comes out and says that he has a financial plan that lines up with the left and the left comes out and says, No, we don’t like that plan anymore, that’s a little bit closer to racist (though not exactly).  It’s not like suddenly the left is against the building of mosques.

Wow. This must have the GOP longing for the good old days of Alan Keyes–you know, when their attempts to pander to get a share of the black vote were only channeled through a wingnut rather than a racist wingnut.

I don’t know if you know this, but all religions are made up of laws.  The funny thing is that I live in Brooklyn, and the bar I frequent happens to be next to a mosque, been there since 1980 I think.  Neighborhood still has bars, women still wear shorts, and there’s a church right next to them.  But that is New York, I know we do things differently here. (Please don’t look behind the curtain to see at the Ground Zero Mosque).  Do you have a lack of faith in our Constitution, in our set of American laws to think that we can’t prevent Sharia Law from coming into practice?  Because that’s what it sounds like.

Muslim is a race? 

I am against (1) birthright citizenship, (2) direct elections of Senators, and (3) a ban on poll tests.
(1) Birthright Citizenship, on it’s face is moronic. The 14th Amendment clearly states that you must be under the full jurisdiction of the U.S. to be a citizen. I suggest you look up the term “jurisdiction” and how it applies to this issue. This issue was corrupted by the Supreme Court and must be corrected by Congress. 
(2) Direct elections of Senators, striped away the States only direct restraint on Federal overreaching. The 17th Amendment must be repealed.  
(3) Poll Test: You damned right a poll-test, in the respect that all who vote must be able to prove that they are a legal citizen of this country and therefor, eligible to vote.

I am against (1) birthright citizenship, (2) direct elections of Senators, and (3) a ban on poll tests.
(1) Birthright Citizenship, on it’s face is moronic. The 14th Amendment clearly states that you must be under the full jurisdiction of the U.S. to be a citizen. I suggest you look up the term “jurisdiction” and how it applies to this issue. This issue was corrupted by the Supreme Court and must be corrected by Congress. 
(2) Direct elections of Senators, striped away the States only direct restraint on Federal overreaching. The 17th Amendment must be repealed.  
(3) Poll Test: You damned right a poll-test, in the respect that all who vote must be able to prove that they are a legal citizen of this country and therefor, eligible to vote.

I love the new flag feature.  There have been some pretty outrageous comments directed at posters here.  Perhaps this will curb that kind of behavior.

There is evidence that there have been links to Hamas and Jihadists which have not been disproved. They have had Jihadist and other pro terror reading material.
So, you’re OK with Sharia Law? Here are some of their tenets.

Shariah on family law:

Women are eligible for only half of the inheritance of menVirgins may be married against their will by a father or grandfatherArab women may not marry non-Arab menWomen may not leave the house without a husband’s permissionMuslim men may marry 4 women, including Christians and Jews; Muslim women may marry MuslimsMen may beat insubordinate wives

Shariah on Jihad and religion:

Offensive war (military Jihad) against non-Muslims is a religious obligationApostasy from Islam is punishable by death without trialNon-Muslims ruled by Islam must follow including discriminatory “dhimmi” taxes and laws.Non-Muslims may not receive Muslim charity “zakat”, but may be bribed to convert to Islam butLying to infidels during Jihad, or to promote Islam, is permissible

Shariah on human rights:

Homosexuals and lesbians must be killedSlavery is permitted and legitimateMuslim men have unlimited sexual rights over slave women, even married slavesFemale sexual mutilation (cliterectomy) is obligatoryAdultery is punished with death by stoningWomen’s testimony in court is worth half that of men (and is permitted only in property cases)Non-Muslims may not testify in Shariah courts.

I didn’t serve in the Army to protect any of that.

Why are you taking down straw man arguments?  No one is saying Islam should be imposed on the community, but surely its adherents should be allowed to practice their religion?!?  

I mean, after all, there is that whole Free Exercise Clause thing…

But silly me.  Here I thought that conservatives honored the Constitution!

As long as it doesn’t affect Obama’s policies as they regard the LGBT community, why on earth should we care?

Glad to see you’ve gotten a new title along with your promotion.  lol

The courts have held that cities and states can regulate strip clubs and adult businesses, but they can’t ban them or prohibit them from operating because that would infringe on the business’ first amendment rights. I’m not sure whether we can take from the above segment that Mr. Cain believes government has the right to ban businesses and places of worship, or if he just thinks a mosque is less than a strip club.

As I thought, you can’t answer my question.  

And when did I say it bothered me?  The only thing that bothers me is when religious teaching translates into governmental policy, and as a white woman, I can assure you that the racism of Obama’s former pastor has not.

Cruel and unusual punishment

The “Establishment Claus”, applies only to the Federal government. It does not, nor has it ever applied to the States.

Just how are you making the connection?

Conservatroll. He’s just a plant from FoxNation

It’s the only rhetorical device s/he has.

I can’t dispute anything you’ve said EXCEPT for “Obamacare is the Utopian idea that all people are entitled to the same quality of care regardless of their financial means”.

That is clearly not true.   Some private insurers will cater to well-to-do patients as will some providers.  You are looking only at the hospital side just as some plans are HMO vs traditional now.

Yeah so?it’s my profile I comment where ever I want.

What I find funny is his statement that we have separation of Church & State in America. I will admit it’s in the Constitution, but I need to mention that the Conservatives are trying to make this nation a Theocracy. Thereby making us no better than what he calls Islam. Funny but I know Turkey is a Muslim country they elect their government, Lebanon is a mix they elect their government, Algeria is a Muslim country they elect their government, Malaysia is a Muslim country they elect their government, Indonesia is a Muslim country and they elect their government, Bangladesh is a Muslim country and the elect their government-they have even elected women to lead their country. Funny that they all do not have Islam as their “State Religion”. But if you check some of the Scandinavian country’s as well as the “Low Country’s” do have a “State Religion”. They even have tax money going to pay for their “State Religion”.

Um, that poll test thing already exists.  That’s why there is a crime called “voter fraud.”

Or his votes from the Black Evangelical Community ?

Seriously, are you a jackarse? Cain is a typical ‘tard clown-what he really means is, “We shouldnt have to put with anyone we dont like.” What a joke, and indicative of the state of the ‘tard Party in 2011.

And the worst part is hes TOTALLY OBTUSE TO THAT FACT, as are ANY minoritis in the ‘Tard Party.

Lets see, im guessing your about 70, Depends wearing, no family contact, and ANGRY at the world. It figures.

Project much?

The very same day one of your kind attack one of these Moslem churches call me back you ignorant Fool!!!

Another ‘Tard Poophous lawyer telling all how it should be-with a 3rd grade education. Im guessing youre in the same boat as Paul G.

Talk impresses ya dont it? Cain is a p*ssy. As are most ‘tards.

Didya mess yer Depends?

That´s how much the Constitution is worth for quiet a few conservatives. When it doesn´t fit it is treated like it was never written.

You suck at presenting an argument. Get a brain.

What did you do in that office? Sweep and vacuum? Towl boy? Many of your points are dead wrong but ive given up trying to educate cretins like you long ago-i prefer to amuse myself by ridiculing you as you spew your lies and 1/2 truths-with all the pompousity of a drag queen. “Dont try to tell me different…” Lololol, i JUST did-now what?

And your legal expertise is based on what? Glenda? Limpy the Molester?  Your own personal 2nd grade edumacacion?

Pretty apparent to everyone else, im sorry for you.

Or holding up Curious George hanging by a noose. A lowpoint, even for ‘tards.

Uh, no genuis. Try again to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I don’t want any Baptist churches in my neighborhood.  

Link please, liar. Gawd you tards will lie on your mother.

Sharia law would interfere with others right to practice their own religion, for which we have that right by our laws.
How so? You know, i take non-elite to mean shoddy. How appropos.

I just did, not so much for his comment but for his screen name. Not that I appreciated the comment.

Youre a fool. None of that crap you just spewed has been shown to be a goal of the mosque in question. Only in your feeble lil mind. BTW, i DID serve to protect FREEDOM of RELIGION, even though i think its nonsense and some of the most hateful people ever are religious. But its an important tenet of a nation. But thats to hard for most ‘Tards to figure out.

So, I’m not supposed to speak out in support of a community that seem to have valid concerns about their neighbors? Am I supposed to jump on the band wagon against them despite the apparent evidence?
I have plenty of faith in the Constitution, but very little faith in lawyers, politicians and the media with agendas,

Cain is a fool. Prove where the attendees of this mosque want Shaaria law? PROVE IT or shut up. You ‘tards are the most scared bunch of p*ssies, EVER. Scared of MOOSLIMS, MESSICANS, “MUD PEOPLE, EDUCATION, MANNERS, TOLERANCE…i could go on all day.

Actually, I don’t like it. I thought you were being sarcastic at first, but now I realize you agree with him.

Not sure what you are trying to insinuate.  

As a staunch LGBT ally and advocate who volunteered for months in the nation’s first public-private partnership aimed at improving the economic well-being of transgender people, I can assure that this president has done more to advance LGBT rights than every other president combined.

I would if I could.  Maybe you two doing it is enough.  At any rate I have no flag to tag next to F’s post

I notice you didnt answer lilly-c’mon Depends-Boy. Give us a link or SOMETHING to show youre just not pulling this out of yer Depends…But you wont because you cant. Its just more FEAR. Sad.

Youre off topic, nonexistant.

The privilege can be abused though. Personally I want the thumbs-down feature back. That ultimately serves the same purpose if a poster gets enough of them

Um, no one is promoting any of that.  Luckily for those of us with actual knowledge of the Constitution and constitutional jurisprudence, Sharia law would be blatantly unconstitutional and stands absolutely no chance of being imposed, even if it was attempted (which, for the record, it has not been).

Now if only conservatives could acknowledge what the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses actually mean, they wouldn’t have to worry about it either.  

Sadly for them, they are too concerned with imposing their own form of Christian Sharia law to do such a logical thing.

Thank you thank you thank you.  For your service, and for your defense of the most critical of American ideals.

Youre just being yourself, now, arent you? No argument, so you just spew. Republitards LOVE pedophiles, thats why they invite them over to watch their kids. See how easy that is? Just any ole random bs off the top of the ole nugget… 

That’s how much the Constitution is worth to ALL Progressives. When it doesn’t say what you want it to say, just say we’ve “evolved” beyond it.

Less than 100 years ago, those degenerate blacks constituted the same imaginary threat as peaceful Muslims do today.

And lets not forget youre a class A liar. But that doesnt matter to ‘Tards. When your ideology is full of holes and nonsense..why they just go a toe-tappin’ at the nearest airport bathroom. Or get a Rent Boy for the weekend. Or a massage and meth package deal….Or ALL three!!!!

Whats your point? You can add 1+1? Congratulations, Genius! You passed the 1st grade-60 years too late!

There’s also the whole vandalism/threat connection…

Gawd yer dumb. Ill just start gibbering back at ya Gramps…GET OFF MY LAWN!

Ya, I know but, I liked the chance at sounding impressive.

I mean, wow. Have you any clue how ignorant you are????

The Establishment Clause has been held to apply to the states since 1947.  And I quote:

“The ‘establishment of religion’ clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will…” Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947). 

Quitter was allowed to run. And Witchie-Poo, too!

Maybe you could expand on your comment enough to make it comprehensible.

He should be forced to wear a burqa for his mouth

You’re half right.  That phrase may not appear in the Constitution, but it most certainly appears in the Supreme Court jurisprudence interpreting the Constitution.  

If Supreme Court cases were a dictionary (which, in a sense, they are), the definition of “Establishment Clause” would be “separation of church and state.”

“Doc P?”  You must be some sourpuss doctor who is upset at the prospect of losing all that billing for unnecessary tests.  Or maybe a physical therapist with delusions of grandeur.  Do you have the temerity to put forth a substantive statement, or are insults the extent of your repertoire?  Just like I thought.

Your welcome, ma’am.  The funniest thing of all is amidst all the hate for PO, its lost that hes not even liberal. Hes middle of the road. But most dont get past his skin color. NOW, if Hillary were elected…

That’s your connection? Try to concentrate on the issue. That would mean, don’t run off on some nonsensical tirade to try and underscore your already ignorant opinion.

It would be much more likely for one of “your kind” to do so. 

I do.  I love my country enough to acknowledge when it’s gone off the rails.  It’s called patriotism.

Your right, it’s not apparent to me! Explain it.

Sweet!  A perfect example of redundancy (ignorant fool) being appropriate!

Doc P, are you capable of disagreeing with someone without acting like an uncivilized buffoon? It sure doesn’t seem that way from your posts.

Especially when the signs are the result of liberal plants.

Are you really “Rokker” who could not figure out the new system ?

So you’ve never heard of Van Jones or Eric Holder?  

??

And based on you rant.. you’re an eighth grade girl?

How does that apply to this issue? We’re not talking about the physical slavery of people, we’re talking about a religious ideology that is unwanted in a particular community. No one is trying to get rid of their religious ideology as a whole, this community is saying, that ideology is unwelcome in their community for obvious reasons.   

Doc P,  all you’ve got is insults.  You far lefties are all for the Muslims, and only like to bash Christianity.  Yet Islam has the most intolerance of all, and we never see you mentioning it.  Why did Islam become your politically correct darling?  

Maybe when he started thinking that taking from those that work, and giving to those that don’t was OK.

Of course I have.  What on earth is your point?

I can’t keep up with all the stupidity and venality coming from the right. Maybe,,just maybe, we’re witnessing the collapse of these retrograde forces. I mean, how idiotic can they get, and, now, with the implosion of the main backer of all the rightwing forces, Rupert Murdoch, the whole kit and kaboodle could be winding down. If that happens, the whole world will rejoice.

Isn’t it crazy???  It’s Bill Clinton all over again–when he was president, he might as well have been the anti-Christ.  10+ years later, he’s one of the most popular former presidents in modern history.

Our troops died protecting our right to worship however we desired. They did not die to protect Sharia law, or any law dictated by any religious order.

Evidence?

I mean, that’s A LOT of liberal plants–numerous ones at nearly every Tea Party rally across the country for over a year.

This guy is not a serous candidate, and I hope Bachmann isn’t either.  If she gets the nomination, I’ll feel worse than when Casey Anthony was acquitted.  I’ve always thought the opposition to the “Ground Zero Mosque” has been misplaced. Who cares if the Arab world thinks they planted their flag at the 911 site?  That’s not who we are or who we have ever been. In America, everyone’s money is just as green as everyone else’s.

hello

Ditto on the thanks for your service.  Hope we just caught you on a bad day and you are not this angry all the time.

How on earth does any community have the right to dictate what its members believe?  

And yes, this is EXACTLY like Jim Crow.  Sixty years ago, those communities were “just” saying that black people were unwelcome in their community for “obvious” reasons (i.e. bigotry).  I mean, you essentially make my point for me.

How on earth does any community have the right to dictate what its members believe?  

And yes, this is EXACTLY like Jim Crow.  Sixty years ago, those communities were “just” saying that black people were unwelcome in their community for “obvious” reasons (i.e. bigotry).  I mean, you essentially make my point for me.

Push everything aside but the location of this Mosque and then ask yourself why the community, and the vast majority of Americans are against it? It has nothing to do with religion, or slavery. It’s matter of common decency. An ideology lost on this group of Muslims.

Push everything aside but the location of this Mosque and then ask yourself why the community, and the vast majority of Americans are against it? It has nothing to do with religion, or slavery. It’s matter of common decency. An ideology lost on this group of Muslims.

Hahaha you’re right.  It’s liberals who have been vandalizing mosques across the country, just like it was liberals who bombed black churches in the 50′s and 60′s.  Because we love to threaten the very people whose rights we defend.

lilly, I don’t care either.  Let them open a mosque, a baptist church, whatever.  Don’t care.  Just seems like when the left mentions religions that don’t like gays, they stress Christianity and always seem to overlook Muslims.  And Muslims are the least tolerant of all.  Just a reminder.

You got it, friend.  The Christian theocrats “hate” theocracy.

Doc, was that on topic? 

This is the kind of thing that drove me nuts during the Bush years.  I remember voting for Gore and Kerry back then, and when I’d discuss the state of nation with my right-wing-GOP relatives and ask them what they thought were the most important issues facing the nation, they’d say “homosexual marriage.”  With the Iraq War, the soaring deficit and waning economy, I thought homosexual marriage would be pretty far down the list (provided you were not a homosexual who wanted to get married in a state that prohibited it).  Now we have a new set of false issues to distract us.  The way I see it, the big issue is still the economy.  Once it gets going great guns again, all these problems wont seem so dire.

Herman Cain is nothing but a fear monger. He want’s to convince everyone that all Muslims are evil so don’t let them come near.  What bullcrap. There’s good and bad in all religions, in all colors of skin. Condemning a whole race/religion for the evil some of that race/religion does, is not the answer.   

Cain needs to step back and think about his own roots. Of the hell and hard times his parents &  grandparents especially, went through for him to be where he is today. 
 
I wonder what his grandparents might think if they’d heard him condemning Muslims, like whites had condemned them their entire life, because they were black? 

I’d love to hear Cain’s thoughts on that.
 

Herman Cain is nothing but a fear monger. He want’s to convince everyone that all Muslims are evil so don’t let them come near.  What bullcrap. There’s good and bad in all religions, in all colors of skin. Condemning a whole race/religion for the evil some of that race/religion does, is not the answer.   

Cain needs to step back and think about his own roots. Of the hell and hard times his parents &  grandparents especially, went through for him to be where he is today. 
 
I wonder what his grandparents might think if they’d heard him condemning Muslims, like whites had condemned them their entire life, because they were black? 

I’d love to hear Cain’s thoughts on that.
 

No, liberals are just much more violent generally.  There are nuts on both sides, like Tim McVeigh on the right and Jared Loughner on the left. For the record, I don’t think anyone I’ve read on this site fits the profile of a church bomber. 

Should the people of San Francisco should be able to ban the Southern Baptists from building a church?
Should the people of Provo be able to ban a non affiliated/ “apostate” LDS group from building a temple?
Should the people of a small Mississippi town be able to ban a Unitarian center?
Should a blue blood community on Long Island be able to prevent a Jewish synagogue being built.

Religious houses of worship in America need to get approval by community activists, plebiscite or a city council?
Welcome to the Balkans.
The former Yugoslavia is not a role model.

You know, you make a fair point.  

Absent any snarkiness, can I explain to you why?  Contrary to hysterical claims, there is no movement to impose Muslim religious ideals on the rest of us through the machinery of the state.  There are MANY, on the other hand, that seek to do so with “Christian” ideals, which almost universally involve limiting the rights of demographics they dislike.  The SECOND the momentum changes, I will be political Islam’s greatest critic.  But considering the fact that we live in a country where some 80%+ percent identify as Christian, this is a less than real possibility.

Got as much evidence as you do.  I don’t buy the presumption that just because the sign is at a TP rally that some TP member necessarily produced it.  Back in the 70′s, I was a liberal dirty trickster who did things like this.  I thought the ends justified the means. But I drifted toward the political center in later years, like most people do.  In my estimation, Clinton would have been the best President of my lifetime (and I once waived at Ike in a parade) had he been more assertive militarily and had he not embarrassed himself and his family with the Lewinsky episode.  I was for Hillary.  I think she was treated shabbily by the Democrats.

Cain is against Freedom of Religion
and will not Appoint any Muslims if he becomes President. Perhaps he should
read the Constitution of the United States of America:

Article Six: The Senators and
Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State
Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United
States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to
support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a
Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

 The Second Amendment states: ““Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”.

As long as they meet certain zoning laws, there is nothing one can do.
One can not have a different set of laws for different religions.

What does that have to do with what I said?

Obama went to Wright’s church, and Wright is best buds with Farrakhan and gave him an award. Where were the lies?

Again, you need to learn to argue against points actually made, not imaginary ones.  

I’m still waiting for you to show me where in this country Sharia law has even been attempted, let alone met ANY success.

Xenophobia?

No, my evidence is that they appeared at every single rally sponsored and attended by Tea Party activists.  Your evidence is nothing but an assumption.

And here’s the thing–you make a HUGE mistake in assuming that the same radical tactics used in the 70′s are used today.  I am a young, hugely passionate, hugely politically-involved liberal, and never has anyone suggested I do anything along the lines of what you are suggesting.  Not once.  Never have I even heard someone joke about such a thing.

By extending tax cuts for the rich….?  By maintaining the lowest tax rates in modern American history…?

Baptist Churches don’t condone “honor killings”, “jihad”, “burkas” or killing homosexuals, buddhists, Christians and Jews….all of which EVERY MOSQUE typically preaches throughout the World.  

Any Muslim that condones ANY of the above,should immediately be deported and any property confiscated.  As some Mexican once said to Humphrey Bogart ….”we don’t need no stinkin’ mosque in Tennessee”…..[grin] 

david;

Do you have ANY evidence that liberals–who generally support gun control, oppose the death penalty, and deplore violence of any kind, to the point of pacifism–are “more violent generally?”  Is this again going back to your 40-year-old experience?  Because A LOT has changed.  

Nothing informs my liberalism more than my antipathy for violence of any form.  Nothing.

You are also making an assumption, and are overgeneralizing, but just as you don’t want to be in the position of defending religion (and BTW I am also “unaffiliated”) I refuse to be defender of the TP.  I have seen the notion of “no new taxes!” do terrible damage here in Texas.  I wont elaborate since I know most all of you hate Texas and Texans as a matter of course, but it has been very harmful.

you hit the nail right on the head….but you are wrong about one thing….its not just arcane constitutional arguments that these morons dont understand….its anything constiutional at all

 You’re obviously just another penny a poster Moron here…Don’t patronize me. You sir, are a Moron…Get over it…..

damn youre stupid…..if there was poll testing guess who wouldnt get to vote…….YOUR DUMB ASS THATS WHO

What a filthy little mouth you have. Nothing but insults.  Lizzie needs to zap you.

Unless your post was a bit of sarcasm. You missed the point of my post at least the Christians, mainly the Evangelicals and their republican base are trying to turn this nation into a theocracy. Have you not watch/read the coverage of nearly 75% of the States trying to outlaw abortion. They also have decided to defund Planned Parenthood mainly because they give out condoms, *Abortions although carried out there are NOT paid via funds received but cost the patient.
   The money that they’ve cut will only pay for the education of only 9 children.(K-12+4) I’m fairly sure they get a bulk discount on condoms so they probably only cost about 99 cents each. 200,000 times the cost of a condom is what the taxpayer will end up paying for the education of one child.

Well done.  You managed a post that does not violate Mediate policy.

Stay classy Cain!
Cain is becoming more like Alan Keyes.
Keyes is a zealot of the worse kind.

Recently read “Night” by Elie Wiesel.  Very moving.  It’s short, about the length of Old Man and the Sea, but it haunts you for days.

I know you meant this sardonically, but if you lived through the days of segregation like I have, this fact actually makes you feel a bit better about the country.  We still have quite a ways to go.

Like Robert Bork, right ?

This if for David..Just how is Jared Loughner on the “left” he’s a man that has mental issues.

He’s for  banning bills that are over 3 pages, discriminating against Muslims in the workplace, calling Obama a A fake black man, or accusing Muslims of Sharia law with no evidence. Herman Cain bathes in ignorance. 

Sure, speak out all you want.  I’m not stopping you.  That’s another thing that I love about our country, you have the right to speak out.  Now, l have the right to speak out against this “apparent evidence.”  The leader of the Islamic Center had a pro-Hamas posting on his myspace page.  That is all I’ve found so far.  Um, that’s the evidence?  This is what you are basing the refusal to allow Americans (again these are Americans) the right to worship?  And that’s a tenuous connection at best.  If there’s more evidence, please supply it, but if FOX News doesn’t even say there’s a connection or at least report on one, then I’m not sure there is one.  In fact, the Hamas connection came about after the Department of Justice told the community leaders against the Mosque told them that Islam was an accepted religion.  See, there chief argument is that Islam isn’t a religion and therefore doesn’t have first amendment rights.  This is really the horse you want to back?

Now as far as Sharia Law goes (and I’ve done a lot of research today on it, thank you), it seems that those that are scared of it, doesn’t know anything about it whatsoever.  It’s not law as we understand it.  It’s essentially a set of principles and rules and even some precedent rulings set into place by Islamic leaders.  Basically, it’s if we called everything Jesus and Moses said as law.  But since much of the Ten Commandments aren’t even in our laws (I can call my dad a d-bag and cheat on my wife (I won’t) and not go to jail.  Also, I can party on Sundays as well) and this is our dominant religion, why do you think Islam law is going to get into our Constitution or our laws so easily?  Plus, did you know this, that according to Sharia Law, Jews and Christians are exempt because they are part of the Abraham religions just like Islam.  So, if Sharia Law becomes the law of the land (it won’t), if you are a Christian, you can continue to be a Christian.  It’s part of Sharia Law.

The thing is, and here’s the messed up part, during a 2009 Tornado, the Muslims of the community opened their doors to help the non-Muslims of the community.  They sent out meals and even had the Jews and Christians share in their holidays.  And this is how they get repaid.  Ladies and gentlemen, that’s not America.

I wonder if Herman Cain’s plan is to run as an independent candidate for POTUS.
The more I think about it, it would not surprise me.
Cain is motivating his “base”.

So Herman Cain was the CEO of Godfather’s Pizza. Maybe Americans should be able to ban lousy pizza. Is that Okay Cain? Just askin’.

God forbid society progresses and evolves. Let´s please stay in 18th century forever. The Constitution doesn´t present any problem for progressives since it was written by progressives.

I just watched the interview again,and it still puzzling why anyone would dare cast a vote for this guy.He literally said”there is freedom of religion” but “ONLY if the community agrees it should be there”.This guy is a danger to the sanctity of the American constitution.He is leaving freedom of religion up to however decides to object to where mosques should be.

I was acknowledging that I was agreeing with GGAS and I was giving you my reasons as to why I am motivated to agree.  What doesn’t it have to do with what you said? 

 Hey Dow..I was on the floor at the CME from 79 to 85….then retired. I knew when to hold them…knew when to fold them….lol…..Just went back last Nov to the BOT…..not the same…ALL puter now.

Cain, seems to be a decent guy that gets in over his head and can’t get out! He referes to the constitution, as he should, yet uses the “key point” that proves him wrong, to agrue the case! When you’re in the south and a local judge rules for Muslins, what would he think a higher court would do?

Honestly, I appreciate your perspective.  I don’t hate Texas, and I certainly do not hate Texans–I do, however, hate the state’s politics.

“spitting on black civil rights heroes”

The $100k reward for any proof that actually happened is still valid. Seeing as you present it in your argument I am assuming you have said proof. Have you collected the reward yet?

No religion on earth holds to the principles of murder and oppression quite like the barbaric cult Islam.( I’m saying this as an agnostic who dosen’t belong to any organized religion, btw) However, religous freedom was one of the reasons for America’s founding. So I must disagree with Mr. Cain, It’s never ok for a town/city to force any religion out. Even if that religion does condone mass murder, enslaves women and believes the Crusades are still going on.

So you support the tenants of Sharia, such as stoning homosexuals and adulters and not allowing women unescorted by a man in public? Are THOSE the positions of the Democratic part in the ’12 election, as you have put forth?

Can I get that on a t-shirt?

The 17th Amendment should NEVER be repealed. The people have a right to elect those who would represent them and their state. Before the 17th was enacted the was no way to make sure people didn’t become Senators because they paid enough money to the state legislators.

I plan to vote for Herman Cain solely for the fact that our Business, The United States of America, is failing, and he has about 50 years of experience more than Obama when it comes to saving businesses ran into the ground by long-previous management.
We will not make any progress of any kind, besides in reverse, on social issues of any kind if the economics aren’t solid first. For example, why are we borrowing billions and billions from the Chinese, and then sending many of those billions back to china in the form of foreign aid? That makes as much sense as you sending an e

Abortion is kinda violent….

“The one inspiring thing about Mr. Cain is that it demonstrates that
ANYONE, no matter how ignorant, can still run for president in the
U.S.A.!”

Very true. Many displays of ignorance inspired my decision to vote for anyone-but-Obama in ’08. Point proven

moderator flagged as hate speech…

I as well

He is wrong.
Otherwise, wouldn’t white bigots have banned A.M.E. Zion churches long ago?

Al Queda please fly planes into the Fox News studio for airing this garbage. 

Let’s see that evidence in regard to the Muslim’s in Murfreesboro TN, Please provide a link or something credible besides an unfounded assertion.
Where did you get your information about Sharia law?
 FTR; I never even implied I was okay with it. What I said was there should not be persecution or denial of rights based on what you think somebody might do somewhere down the road. IF and only IF they attempt to influence our legal system by claiming Sharia law I’ll oppose them just as vigorously as I do Christians trying to do it. Until then there’s no excuse at all for denying them the right every other religion has, as described in our Constitution. How can conservatives keep screaming about returning to Constitutional principles and then be willing to violate it so quickly when it suits them? 

Spoken like a true Obamacon. This is just a guess mind you but, I have a feeling you didn’t excel at reading comprehension, did you! Read what I said, not what you THINK I said.

I thought I was ‘right-wing’, but I’m only on board with about half of those. Guess I’m finally in the majority: an Independent. It’s nice here. I get to ridicule the absurdity of both sides.

I feel the exact same way every time I hear our President referred to as a “Constitutional Scholar”. Nice catch.

That could be easily remedied by the State Legislature. The whole purpose of a State Legislature appointing a Senator was to maintain a balance in Congress by ensuring that the State Senator was doing the bidding of the State and it’s priorities and not the Party! Once elected, they know that their constituency is too large to directly control them.

well, seeing as he is 65 or so, HE WAS the target of the bigotry you discuss, an issue he has mentioned more than once in his many speaking engagements. Go online, open your mind somewhat, and at least listen to the man speak for a few hours to get a feel for his views.
Or can you just not accept, in your obviously bigotry-free heart, that a Black man can be something other than a hardline Democrat? Whether you like it or not, Black persons are quite capable of independent thought.

True and that’s my point. Trying to deny Muslims in TN who have lived and worshiped there for 20 years the right to build a new house of worship is denying them their constitutional right. I’ve seen zero evidence that those TN Muslims are trying to impose Sharia law on our legal system. Christians try to influence policy and law all the time based on their religious beliefs. Nobody denies them the right to build a church. It’s about as direct a violation of the Constitution as you can get and damned UnAmerican.

What arcane Constitutional arguments are you talking about?

I think you had better recheck your facts because they are 180 out from reality.  The fund DOES pay for abortions.  The fund DOES NOT do the prescribed care that it would like the public to believe.  Do your own investigation and call and ask if they cover sonograms or ultrasounds.  Ask for your self.  As an investigator for  fraudulent cases you will be surprised at what you find!  Don’t take my word for it ask for yourself.  Make a list of as many clinics in various states, call as a patient and then you will know the truth.  The fund does double billing of costs through a variety of means that would surprise you.  It has nothing to do with theocracy but double dealing and bureaucracy.  (money and greed and power) 

Uh oh, a black man thinking independently! Don’t let the Dixiecrats find out.

And here I was told, BY DEMOCRATS, that criticizing a Black man was racist, re: Obama.

BUT, special thanks to progressive_kitty for now making it ok to criticize Obama regardless of how many melanocites he possesses.

True. Heaven and Dixicrats forbid that a Black man would be capable of independent thought. That IS what you were trying to say, right?

See if you are still holding that line when a Church of Satanism wants to move into your town and must be allowed to perform animal sacrifice on the front lawn every Christmas. it sounds absurd, but following your logic is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

Separation of Church and State= Protection of religion from the State. It is only recently that clause was basically reversed to make religion functionally illegal in public, due to fear of “offense”.

I take issue with Obama’s bigotry quite often. I’ve been called a racist many times due to this fact. That is why I now only criticize, as Bill Maher so eloquently put it, “his white half”.
Interestingly enough the majority of people who participate in knee-jerk racism accusations fail to comprehend that the definition of racism does not specify ONE color over another. White racism is equal to Black racism is equal to Brown racism is equal to Yellow racism. To look at it any other way would both illogical and unequal.

No, we don’t need that kind of posting.

You can’t be implying that it’s okay for a state to decide how people can worship in their state, can you?
freedom of worship, freedom to worship , is basic to our sense of liberty and religious freedom.

Flagged!

I’m sorry, I was refering to “original intent” of the Constitution. I neglected to finish the statement.   

What? Are you still talking about the Mosque in TN?

WHERE”S THE EVIDENCE? You haven’t provided one iota of anything like evidence.

Remember the Christian who murdered Dr Tiller, and those who have bombed or plotted to bomb abortion clinics. Let’s board up every church they ever attended , and the churches of all their friends and neighbors because of their association with known Christian terrorists. Then let’s see how quickly conservative Christians start screaming about how awful and unfair that kind of religious persecution is. There’s no decent rational argument to defend the actions against these American Muslims. If there’s evidence to the contrary then produce it.

No he absolutely is not on point. You do not deny anyone the right to worship or to build a house of worship simply because you’re paranoid about something you suspect they might do. That’s ludicrous.

Incorrect. He claimed the people in Murfreesboro are within their rights to deny those Muslim citizens their right to build a house of worship. They are not.

They should have the same rights as the other religions and other religious citizens in that community and the freedom to worship that is a basic constitutional principle. 

I’m going to make a guess here that these comments get so much negative attention that Cain will be backtracking soon and either admit he was wrong, {that would be refreshing in any candidate} or claim he was misunderstood.

Our secular laws do not use the Bible as the final authority to enforce laws. We are a fundamentally Judeo-Christian nation and saw that the individuality of man and the freedoms we wish to grant for each citizen required enforcement of laws based on the rights of citizens under our freedoms.

Shariah law uses the Koran as it’s final authority and thereby constitutes a violation of freedom of religion and state.

Herman has forgotten not to long ago blacks could be forbidden to use the same restroom as whites. This man and his tea party ilk are dangerous to themselves and democracy. Democracy is takes a lot of work to keep it and requires some things you may not like as an individual.

Racism has a component of advantage to it. It’s impossibe for African-Americans to be racist in a white society where they have no economic or numeric advantage. There’s no equivalent to Caucasians running around insisting on taking “their” country back in the African-American community. There’s a reason for that. No African-American in his right mind sees himself, his ancestors or his children as in possession of this country. We don’t think that way. It’s not reality. Only Caucasian do.

They not only think that way, they act on it. Caucasian congressmen are withholding payments to African-American farmers this very minute. Racism is about advantage. I group with 13% of the population can’t be racist in any meaningful way.

Cain pulled his legal expertise….right out of his rear end, where his common sense and intelligence lurks.

Cain grew up when, in his native GA, he had to go in the woods rather than use the a white restroom, if he was traveling on the highway, if a “colored” one wasn’t available; when African-Americans were being murdered over their civil rights; when African-Americans couldn’t live or worship where THEY chose. By his logic, temples could be rejected, too. Halakah, the laws for observant Jews, also violate the Exclusion Clause, according to his sloppy construct.

Caucasians would have been within there rights objecting to African-American institutions in the 60s, when some African-Americsn were at war with the US. Caucasian, therefore should have spoken out against institutions in African-American communities because they might spread Black consiousness. Oh, that’s right, they did.

Herman Cain’s inability to understand this historic context disqualifies him for any office. We can’t put the safety and security of ALL the people in the hands of a man so deeply in denial.

I hope so, but I suspect he was pandering to the far right. I think Cain knows what he is doing.
 Cain wants to be the darling of WND, Canada Free Press, and Free Republic. I am disappointed in Cain.

There is a difference between Islam and so called “Radical Islam”.
Islam, like Christianity is complicated and diverse.
Most American Muslims want nothing to do with “jihad” or “terrorism’.
Many Americans need to get out and meet others different than themselves.
They may find those “different” are not so different after all.
I am against radical Islam. I am also against Radical Christianity, Radical Judiasm, Radical Hinduism, Radical Atheism and so on. Why are Americans so fearful?

This is so ridiculous and beyond the pale of rational discussion, this man should never be put into a position of power. 

The reason this sounds absurd is because you reference something that is illegal in most states! The act of the the sacrifice is where, they lose part of that protection. This is why banning Sharia law is reduntant. It is, in part against the law already! Those parts of Sharia, that would violate rights or result in violence, are already illegal. This would be like having a law on the books alreay of “breaking and entering”, now there is a movement to also ban b and e, with a hammer, next a stick, then etc.. The law is in place already. Cain is playing to a rage section from the zealot side that always wants to rally around the constitution, (good), but  you can’t pick and chose which parts you follow!

Might be indecent, but it a’int illegal. It’s totally thoughtless. It will probably cause the police a lot of grief with the emotions running wild right now.  But these turds are free to build a church anywhere they want.  Who cares what the Arabs think?  If this is their idea of a success, it’s pitiful.  I’d rather take pride in my society’s values.

I live in Austin, which has its own politics.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Austin_Weird

Unlike many churches of ANY other world religion, Islam preaches, incubates, and encourages hate for all things American and the West- as has been documented many many times. The most memorable end product was 9-11. Islam finds a free society as a slap in the face to their laws and instead of assimilating into society as a whole, they insulate themselves and cry foul under OUR laws that happen to provide the right to worship and freedom from religious persecution. So it begs the question-why shouldn’t we return the favor with the same tolerance they provide for other religions throughout the ME? Where is the American Muslim outcry when daily Christian, Buddhists,Hindus, Jews, even other Muslin Sects are murdered in the name of Allah Every.Single.Day?
We don’t tolerate racism, (hate crimes) we don’t tolerate sexism, spousal abuse, we don’t tolerate stoning gay people, we don’t tolerate the chopping off of any body parts, so why should a community under the Constitution and laws of America tolerate a church that preaches what is basically a criminal acts under their state law? 

I don’t think Cain is a fear monger or xenophobic.

I think he’s just trying to say what he thinks the f*cking lunatics that he is soliciting to want to hear.

Saying Sharia is not a threat is not supporting it.

Sharia has been used as a scare tactic.  Our legal system is stronger than the influence of religious moral codes, especially the Sharia codes that people have used to scare you.

The terrorist have won, you live in fear.

Your response to mine is very juvenile and doesn’t even address anything I said. I hardly live in fear, actually quite the opposite- understanding those who oppose your way of life and why, gives you a better perspective in discussing differences- I live in reality. I just had coffee with a Muslim woman the other day, we were discussing how many of the other wives do not go out, have a job or attend classes. Tolerance does not necessarily mean compromise of one’s belief -just ask a Muslim.

I understand your objection to shariah law, and do understand your concerns about activities that have been reportedly taking place in some mosques, be it in the forms of education, or the political arms seeking for the so called right to practice shaiah within their own so called communities, but how do you propose to balance acting on those fears with the first amendment?

Whether you like it or even they like it, They are Americans first and Muslims second. They must abide by America’s laws first and those of the religion second.

They are also Americans protected by the constitution, whether they personally like it or not.

You are attempting to make a rational argument out of hatred and fear, whether you are aware of it or not.

Cain another Republican that doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming President.

No religion on earth holds to the principles of murder and oppression quite like the barbaric cult Islam.( I’m saying this as an agnostic who dosen’t belong to any organized religion, btw) However, religous freedom was one of the reasons for America’s founding. So I must disagree with Mr. Cain, It’s never ok for a town/city to force any religion out. Even if that religion does condone mass murder, enslaves women and believes the Crusades are still going on.

There was a video posted just yesterday that shows it pretty clearly.

Ouch, to true.

I think Cain is an otherwise decent man, who just happens to be completely wrong on this issue

My suggestion is in 2012 we elect as many independents as we possibly can just to show both parties they are on thin ice.

You will not find a single instance of any court applying Sharia law in the United States. (If there is a situation where Sharia law matches US laws, such as you cannot murder people, then is US law that is being applied.)
Our laws are based on English Common Law. Period. The fact that a particular Muslim family may choose not to take full advantage of the freedoms available to its women, that is none of YOUR business.
Have you not noticed that there are variations “our” Christian churches, some of which teach hate as much as any Muslim does? Think of the “church” that protests at the funerals of fallen military. Think of the “nationally respected” preacher who said hurricane Katrina was God’s response to American sinfulness.
Your spread of hate talk is every bit as bad as the hate talk you claim is being spread by Muslims.

Can we shut down every church that the murderer of Dr Tiller attended because he must have gotten his ideology from them?  Irrational paranoia is not a sound reason for denying someone the same rights you have. Freedom of religion is basic to our national identity. Adding, except for the people we don’t like or agree with, is a clear violation of that principle.

Is that what mentor means?  You agree with them on everything?  Maybe you could check that again.

Well, that could be arguable..from the crusades thru world wars, hitler used the bible quite often. persecution through religion has killed more people than any plague , disease, addiction or natural disaster. let’s please be honest of what religion really is..

We are not a business. No country is a business.

thisexists ;

Currently it’s large conservative Christian groups in this country that are campaigning against gay equality. If Muslims organize into activist groups or join activist groups they’ll get the same

Accidental “Liked.” Actually, hate your post, but hate is such a bad word. I will just say you are crazy stupid. I think I can get that on a t-shirt.

The last terrorist attack i seen was a President of the United States come on TV to tell Senior Citizens they would not be getting their checks next month even though the funds are there to pay them. Now that’s a terror on the American People. I wonder if any of them had heart attacks etc from his words alone? Very poor judgement for a President to use.

It was good to see a right-wing conservative admit the “separation of church and state”.  But, they continue to want to take over all aspects of our government, so they need to quit being hypocrites and believe what Cain just said :  “separation of church and state” -in other words their damn religion and idiotic family values should play no part in our laws, including their rants about same-sex relationships.

I would like to see as one of the big cuts in the deficit, anything pertaining to “faith-based initiatives”.

And, I would also like one of these right-wing weirdos to explain to the American people what “sharia law” is.  Since they are trying to pass laws against “sharia law”, surely they know what it is.

The problem is he doesn’t really understand how this particular business works,

 Many Christians will tell you the Bible is the final authority. It’s the nature of dogmatic belief. But so far no TN Muslims are trying to impose Sharia law on anyone. Instead the Christians are reacting as religious bigots in judging them and denying them the same rights the Christians enjoy.

Not so, a judge in New Jersey ruled that a Muslim man who had kidnapped his estranged wife, held her hostage, and repeatedly raped her was acting in accordance with the laws and beliefs of his religion and therefore should not be charged with having committed a crime…  There have been a few others, as well as there are very organized pushes by groups similar to CAIR to allow Shariah to be used in deciding Civil matters within the Muslim communities in our country, Some politicians have seemed amenable to the idea. The Jersey decision was later overturned in a higher court, but it is interesting that it even got that far… 

1 Lumping all Islam as the same is like saying all Baptists are like the Westboro Baptists.
2. You have no idea what the Muslims of Murfreesboro teach and preach.
3. Freedom to worship is a basic founding principle that should not be violated because of irrational paranoia. It’s shameful.

Something really good came out of this. All of a sudden, ultra-conservatives are defending gay rights!

did you tell her your insights into Islam? I’m sure she’d love to hear them.

Cite the case. Otherwise, you are just spreading a rumor.

>________________________________
>From: Disqus <>
>To: geoangle@yahoo.com
>Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:31 PM
>Subject: [mediaite] Re: Herman Cain On Communities Banning Mosques: 'They Have A Right To Do That'
>
>
>Disqus generic email template
>
> Fedup in Florida wrote, in response to Devils_Spawn:
>Not so, a judge in New Jersey ruled that a Muslim man who had kidnapped his estranged wife, held her hostage, and repeatedly raped her was acting in accordance with the laws and beliefs of his religion and therefore should not be charged with having committed a crime…  There have been a few others, as well as there are very organized pushes by groups similar to CAIR to allow Shariah to be used in deciding Civil matters within the Muslim communities in our country, Some politicians have seemed amenable to the idea. The Jersey decision was later overturned in a higher court, but it is interesting that it even got that far… 
>Link to comment

Planned Parenthood has a separate entity that accepts donations that go toward abortions.  No public money is spent on abortions.  That is the law and those who contribute to the separate entity for abortions would not be contributing if it weren’t to help others obtain legal assistance for their abortion.

For those hypocrites like yourself who thinks government should stay out of the lives of people but then you feel it is your right to look up the vagina of a poor woman is nothing but disgraceful.  Go pray to your God, and leave women’s health to them and their doctors.

I never once mention Sharia Law in my original comment. The assumption that I am responding out of fear is absolutely silly. I don’t have to “balance” acting on my “fears” because no one lives in an autonomous community, no matter how much they wish to do so.

To Nacho- I am not attempting to make an argument out of hatred or fear that is a cop out reply. They do not view themselves as American first and Muslims second- they are the first to admit it is the other way around.

To Devils Spawn- “Our laws are based on English Common Law. Period. The fact that a particular Muslim family may choose not to take full advantage of the freedoms available to its women, that is none of YOUR business.”
No it is not my business, never said it was. BUT if those freedoms are being suppressed against someone’s will -what do you call it? And exactly WHAT have I said that is “hateful”? 
Hate is a very provocative accusation, but you clearly feel the need to toss it out there as some sort of defense, because it is clear you have no understanding of Muslims nor their communities.
I have some dear Muslim friends, of which we had over for dinner 2 days after 9-11. I was setting the table as their nephew was kneeling and praying towards Mecca in my dining room. Trust me, I understand their religious convictions without any hatred, as well as their political agenda for America and believe at times they are not mutually exclusive. 

As long as none of these Christian Theocrats impose their Biblical laws on homosexuals, atheists and those of other religions, then i have no problem with them fearing Sharia Law gaining popularity in the US.  Sharia Law has no place in a democracy.  I have no problem with this dufus of a candidate espousing separation of church and state (which is usually rare, as most Christians say that there is NONE).  But most of the time, these Christian Theocrats want only Christian values and laws to be imposed on the minority (of course, for our own good), just like they do in Saudi Arabia and the Taliban does.  The Christian fundies are slowly turning into the American Taliban, which is scary.  I am a die hard liberal but I have to let the rest of you liberals know, who are posting on here defending the rights of the mosque to be built, that we cannot ignore Islamic fundamentalism.  Sure, most American Muslims probably don’t believe in following their Koran’s laws here to a T and hanging homosexuals and stoning adulterers, but the fact is that the Koran DOES prescribe the death penalty and harsh judgments towards “infidels”.  The Christian Bible, even though it can be just as harsh and violent, preaches love and non-violence and most Christian churches preach “love the sinner, hate the sin” and I have yet to see mainstream denominations preach killing gays.  Islam preaches a lot of intolerance and violence against sinners, hence Sharia Laws in many Muslim countries.  And unfortunately, Islam, unlike modern Christianity, has not made much progress in terms of reinventing itself to suit modern times.  There have been no reformations in Islam since its inception and most Islamic countries don’t believe in democracy. That should scare liberals.  I am not preaching hatred of Muslims, but we do need to be aware that we need to question Islam and Sharia Law.  If not, our unflinching devotion to Islam gives ammunition to conservatives who continue to say we are Sharia lovers who love fundamentalist Islam and defend veils for women, and support Hamas.  

All links I found to the case are no longer available. Only the Fox News article and some hate sites still mention it. Even Fox News admits that the judge's ruling was overturned as not compatible with American laws.

>________________________________
>From: Disqus <>
>To: geoangle@yahoo.com
>Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:31 PM
>Subject: [mediaite] Re: Herman Cain On Communities Banning Mosques: 'They Have A Right To Do That'
>
>
>Disqus generic email template
>
> Fedup in Florida wrote, in response to Devils_Spawn:
>Not so, a judge in New Jersey ruled that a Muslim man who had kidnapped his estranged wife, held her hostage, and repeatedly raped her was acting in accordance with the laws and beliefs of his religion and therefore should not be charged with having committed a crime…  There have been a few others, as well as there are very organized pushes by groups similar to CAIR to allow Shariah to be used in deciding Civil matters within the Muslim communities in our country, Some politicians have seemed amenable to the idea. The Jersey decision was later overturned in a higher court, but it is interesting that it even got that far… 
>Link to comment

@ Devils Spawn..  I think that the higher court ruling was addressed in the last sentence of my post..  but if you are really interested you will find about 50 cases in this link, the Jersey case is one of them..  My concern about these cases is that once the door is opened even a crack, it somehow always continues it’s swing open…  I believe our country already has its system of laws…  and given the seperation of church and state provided by the first amendment I see no room for shariah in any area of the courts, criminal or civil.

http://shariahinamericancourts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Shariah-Law-and-American-State-Courts-1.2-05182011.pdf/

So, I wonder how he himself can turn around and target others who have a different religious view than he does.  But, that is exactly what he is doing.

You are partially wrong about that.  Perhaps up until John F Kennedy ran for president and if you recall, Catholics were regarded as less than qualified to run for office- more or less like the Mormons are felt in disdain by the religious right fanatics now.  We got past that – or so I thought.  Then, when Ronald Reagan was running for president he figured he would be able to get the support of all these religious right fanatics if he sucked up to Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson.  Ronald Reagan was not a religious man at all, but soon had the support of the religious right nuts if he would come out against abortion, which he did.  Remember, abortion wasn’t even a political issue until then.  In fact, Betty Ford supported the right to choose right along with most women in the republican party – a good many who left the party to join the democrats because of the right wing views. 

The truth sometimes hurts?

Emminent domain is a necessity of government, but should be focused only for government needs like public roads, railroads, highways, transmission and gas lines etc.  To abuse the emminent domain clause to remove residences for the purpose of constructing expensive condos or casinos is absolutely a viola ftion of the US Constitution.  Shame on the SCOTUS for their wrong decision on emminent domain.

Maybe you need to ride away on a white horse to another country that has a different US Constitution.  Poll test by the way, is not the same as showing proof of citizenship.  Poll testing is how the republicans would like to eliminate a lot of legitimate people from voting.

OK. So you know and are even friends with some Muslims. Do you actually believe that they hate all things American? Clearly not. It must be that you believe they are taught that, but don’t really believe what they are taught.
As with any common prejudice, you are finding that when you only hear or read about the actions and beliefs of another group (race, religion, or sex) you form one opinion, but meet a few of “them” you find that the negative generalities are almost always fasle.

You are right, I did not read your post closely and projected into it..  thanks for correcting me.

Actually, maybe they should get some of Paul Ryan’s vouchers in lieu of medicare.

 Just with this comment Cain has proven how ignorant he is about the constitution. He’s done stick a fork in him. Seems like a nice guy but needs to do some research on this subject and many others before he can be considered serious.

Of course you don’t think your argument is based on hate, you don’t think your disfavor for their views are the same as hostility towards or hate.  Alot of racists truley believe in their mind that they aren’t

The fact the legal system does not agree with you should make you do some inner searching and wonder why you were wrong but thought you were completely right.

I know it is tough for Republicans to even admit that even Nixon and Reagan had similar ideas as to the healthcare system and of course the blueprint for the Affordable Healthcare Bill came fromMitt Romney.  And, of course, the Affordable Healthcare plan didn’t have the public option which it should have in order to provide competition for private insurance companies who as Sarah Palin would say “are the true death panels” for everyone.  A prime example of the current situation came in Arizona when the republican governor there refused a vital organ transplant for a young man in his 40′s.  To me, SHE became the death panel by refusing a medical need which had a real good chance of giving this young man years more of life.  Not the same as giving a transplant to a 70 year old.

Everyone should have a right to basic healtlhcare and the opportunity to pay more for specialists if they can afford it.  Canada and the European countries have a government healthcare system that most of their citizens would never give up.

People have to recognize that the reason our health care is so expensive is that the healthcare industry has no competition and is more interested in returning dividends to their stockholders than providing care to their patients. 

No, I did too.  And I’m a demcorat.

He was asked if he could guarantee it, and he really couldn’t do that.  You know what guarantee means, right?  That means without a doubt, a sure thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/13/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-social-security-and-other-federa/

What do you mean in the early days of our America?   Heck, someone was burning black churches in rural Georgia in the last couple years.

Something you failed to mention when you say it was the”democrats”.  Actually, it was the Dixiecrats who later became the republicans.  These were the democrats who didn’t want integration so they went to the political party that would accept them.  Jessie Helms, Strom Thurmond to name a couple.

Haha, Yeah, that’s might white of them.

Something you failed to mention when you say it was the”democrats”.  Actually, it was the Dixiecrats who later became the republicans.  These were the democrats who didn’t want integration so they went to the political party that would accept them.  Jessie Helms, Strom Thurmond to name a couple.

Re Sharia law in the US. One case found by Fox News gets constant mention. It is an interesting case in that it was a Family Court case in New Jersey and the plaintiff, a Muslim woman, and the defendant, a Muslim man, were not US citizens. The man was demanding sex from a woman who wanted to divorce him. They were both still citizens of Morocco. The judge thought that mattered, but it did not, and that is only part of the reason that the judge’s decision was OVERTURNED. The other thing is that the judge did not say he was basing his decision on Sharia law. The judge stated that the man did not INTEND to violate US laws, and without INTENT, there was no crime. That was what really got the case overturned.

You see, had the suit been brought by a Christian woman against a Christian man and Michelle Bachmann were the judge, Bachmann would have ruled exactly the same as that New Jersey judge did under “Christian law” in which a woman must OBEY her husband, and that includes sex on demand. Ms. Bachmann did say as much (minus specific mention of sex) recently, and you can find the quote in a Mediaite article.

It was not that long ago that any US court would have ruled the same, so the New Jersey judge was only being ultra-ultra conservative in applying old common law. He should be accused of sexism, not Islamic sentiments, and by the way, his name indicates that he is/was no Muslim or Muslim sympathizer.

Now. Can Sharia law be applied in the US?
 Absolutely!
Under what conditions?
First and foremost, it must NOT violate US law. Second, both parties to a contract must agree in advance that if there is a conflict, it will be settled according to Sharia laws THAT DO NOT VIOLATE US LAWS.
You and I could enter into a commercial contract that we agree will be decided under German law if we want to.

 In no case will a US judge order that a thief’s hand be cut off or a gay man be stoned to death. Sharia law will never be applied in a criminal case in the US.
Sharia laws can still apply to commercial contracts, and even a Christian may find that using the Sharia law may be financially advantageous to him/her without violating his/her Christian values.
You will be able to accept this if you can get beyond the belief that all Sharia laws are necessarily barbaric and archaic.
Just remember that so long as you are in the US, no one will be able to impose Sharia law on you.

Under the Islamic calendar, the year is 1432. What were the Christians doing in their 1432?
We all have a pretty good idea of what the Big Three, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are “about” right now, but there are and have been many other religions that have been every bit as bloodthirsty as SOME Muslims are today. 

Look, I’m an atheist, so all religions look equally preposterous to me, but Herman Cain is the most vile sort of religious bigot that I can remember ever floating up in America’s political fever swamp. He is also intellectually dishonest, apparently ignorant of the specifics of the constitution, and a low character not morally qualified for the presidency.

Republicans, you need to banish this goniff to the far reaches of your big tent and get someone to tell him to STFU. He is doing you no favors.

It depends. If Cain actually stays in the race, he will have to say he was misunderstood. If he drops out soon, he will just hang out with the folks who still agree with him as they lounge around at the country club that recently accepted blacks as members, not just caddies.

In a way, I agree with you. There is clear wording that the federal government cannot ban any religion, but it is not that clear that the federal government must avoid any religious activity. It is not unconstitutional for the House of Representatives to start each day with a prayer and there is no requirement that the various religions have equal or proportionate representation at prayer time.
The US military has chaplains and chapels and supports the distribution of any religious text a service member may want. The one rule is that the government cannot force anyone to attend such services, whether in a military chapel, in the House of Representatives, or in a public school.
On the other hand, I have no problem with saying Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. That much PC is over the top repression.

Fact? All politicians are community organizers. Think about it before you answer.

On the subject of Herman Cain, he was also the Chairman of the Kansas City branch of the Federal Reserve. If he gets on a roll in his presidential bid, Ron Paul will bring that up real quick. That alone should destroy Cain’s chances with a lot of anti-government folks, so it is no wonder Cain down-plays it. It is strange that both Fox and the “liberal media” are quiet about that.

For those interested in educating themselves here’s an excellent Q&A
by the BBC on Sharia law and it’s practice in the UK. It’s more like
arbitration done by the church.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7234870.stm

If you haven’t explored this issue much this is very helpful in dispelling paranoid myths.

You are partially wrong about that.

Im trying to find your point..it evades me..as you mention nothing but religions webbed into politics.

If you believe im wrong and religion has no basis in past and current politics well..
You keep believing that princess, and please support your local Muslim’s right in this free country that does not try to use religions in politics..as they are so far apart.

Let’s not forget Robert Byrd…  You know the one whose life and legacy was celebrated by the president last year…

“I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side … Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.”     — Robert C. Byrd

In writing to a Grand Wizard…

“The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation.”

If you are interested in learning about truth in civil rights maybe this will help..

http://www.black-and-right.com/the-democrat-race-lie/

Conservatives have never stood in the way of civil rights…  to the contrary.  What conservatives have stood against are programs that lead to dependency on the state…  and yes they are not afraid to continue that fight today..  If you want to call that racism then so be it..   But I would ask you to explain why this is racism, could it be that these programs have been so successful that they have collected a large segment of an entire race into a life of dependency?  

If you are truly interested in the beginning of the origins of racism in our country you might start with the progressive administration of that great Democratic President…  Woodrow Wilson

Courtesy of PBS..

“During his first term in office, the House passed a law making racial intermarriage a felony in the District of Columbia. His new Postmaster General also ordered that his Washington offices be segregated, with the Treasury and Navy soon doing the same. Suddenly, photographs were required of all applicants for federal jobs. When pressed by black leaders, Wilson replied, “The purpose of these measures was to reduce the friction Ö It is as far as possible from being a movement against the Negroes. I sincerely believe it to be in their interest.”

We’re not criticizing Cain because of something a friend of his Pastor’s said or did, but something he said himself.  See the huge, elephant in the room, difference?Guilt by association is intellectually and morally lazy and we should very much object to the media and politicians playing this game. I have people I love as friends and family that I very much disagree with on specific issues. I won’t stop loving them or spending time with them because of our disagreement.

okay, that was pretty funny

It will be so refreshing if you finally offer anything of substance.

Sorry , you are not following anything similar to logic.

Wow, you’re wrong.  It actually goes both ways, and has been interpreted as such since at least 1947.  Moreover, NEVER has it been interpreted to ban religion in public–merely religion sponsored by the government in public.  

It is for this reason that schools are more than welcome to practice “moments of silence” during which students are free to pray, but are simply not able to hold prayers as such.  There is a huge difference between allowing religious practice and coercing it.

Precisely, CosmosDan.  Precisely.

While it’s good to look at our history and learn things it seems like a waste to me to keep arguing this point. Racism existed in both parties and there is currently good and bad in both parties. It’s not a contest to measure the unmeasurable and try to determine who’s better or worse. We sink or we swim, together. Personally I do not see the GOP or conservatives in general as racist toward blacks.

I agree with you, I was responding to Georgegirl who wants to propagate the lie that conservatives are racists. I just find it intellectually dishonest that contemporary politics is so willing to paint the republican party as a party of racists when it is the republican party who can honestly lay claim to a record of fighting to insure that the same human rights our constitution grants to any citizen be available to all our citizens..  This long fight has been recorded by history…  Now comes modern day America where Civil Rights have been redefined as Federal dollars… a leap of faith that I do not think can be rationalized.

So I’ve heard–I’ve heard it’s one of the most amazing cities in the US!  Kudos to you!

please progressive Kitty and others who “liked” this comment. Let’s not encourage posters who seem unable to post without including childish insults.

Not just every church he attended, but every church that paints doctors like him as “baby killers.”  Heck, we’d have to shut down Bill O’Reilly as well…

What an awesome example.

“…does not, *nor has it ever*…” Straight up falsehood, no matter how you choose to spin it.

But, in that case, I assume you don’t support the Second Amendment as containing a personal right to bear arms?  

Because the Supreme Court refused to interpret the Constitution that way until…wait for it…2007.

This has nothing to do with his political leanings.  Many conservatives on this very site have decried this sort of bigotry.

What it has to do with is cynically attacking an easily marginalized demographic for political gain.  And, as someone who has been the victim of that sort of politics, he should understand this as well as anyone.

But you’re right. Black people are just as capable of being bigots as anyone else.

Out of curiosity, how would you describe me—an atheist—if I decided to go around and decry the existence of any and every church, as well as their adherents?  If I insinuated that, merely because of their religion, church-goers were less worthy, less American than me?  As bigoted?  Because that’s exactly what it would be.

Agreed…  It is funny to me that Republicans just don’t know when to leave some things alone…  There are so many issues that he could discuss…  Instead he picks a fight on the wrong side of the first amendment…  I say this as a conservative…  haha and let’s not overlook Michelle Bachmann who had begun to rehabilitate her image only to lend her own hand in tearing it down…  she should have been able to forecast this and just stayed out of the process…  They are damaging their own party.

I read that years ago, but I should re-read it.  I remember it being wonderful and awful and, well, haunting, as you say.

Irony alert :)

You couldn’t be more wrong.  

Planned Parenthood bills the government like any other Medicaid provider–for each individual service rendered.  Seeing as how the Hyde Amendment explicitly prohibits Medicaid paying for abortions, PP is strictly forbidden for billing the government for any such thing.

I think all far to broad brush strokes painted on groups is intellectually lazy and unhelpful, regardless of the group being aimed at.

Herman Cain is confuse of who he is or  he probably has  amnesia, it is sad to see him  trying to prove himsel like a loyal house negro in this century.

I like both the points that you and Dik have both made…  I can’t forget Oral Roberts decrying to the nation that if he did not recieve his $8,000,000 in 3 months time that god would call him home…  Only one of hundreds of examples of blind faith that one could point to in calling out extremism in christianity in our country, I respect christianity but I also believe that it can be carried too far…  Nor will I ever forget the cover of Time Magazine of a beautiful young Muslim girl with a hole in her face where her nose had once been…  which had been cut away in accordance with religious belief and law… the story went on to described a young woman had tried to flee what was abuse by her husband and in-laws..  it is my belief that it is stories such as these give rise to fear in this country to the spread of muslim faith in some of our communities..  I do however believe it was Benjamin Franklin who cautioned the following…  ““Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”  I agree with Franklin and the first amendment…  In the last several years we have already allowed to many of our freedoms to be stripped away in the name of security…  We should have more faith in our ability to fight against those who would do us harm, while preserving the freedoms we have cherished in the past.

One can not turn to the consitution for an understanding of what that document means……  you must read the substaintial case law surrounding the constitution for it’s modern meaning.   

Communities ban stuff all the time. Why are mosques so goddamn special? In some dry counties you can’t even buy booze yet you’re gonna tell me that Muslims have the right to build a mosque wherever they want? Really? Ok. I’m starting a new religion, The Church of Babes, Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms or CBATF for short. My religion is gonna feature girls in bikinis shooting firearms while men smoke and drink whiskey. I’m sure my church is going to be welcomed in every neighborhood. No? Then screw the Muslims!
http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

Communities ban stuff all the time. Why are mosques so goddamn special?

It’s called religious freedom and guaranteed in the Constitution. I see by your icon you must be familiar with it.

There’s a difference between saying “I don’t like that idea” and having actual legal grounds to shut it down. .

I’m with you all the way, in fact I have an idea, let’s ban christianity and judaism and americans and australians.

Let’s do it man

I don’t think any belief is preposterous (not even atheism) but I agree iwth you on herman cain, he’s horrible

Thank God for people with brains

uhhhh why???

that seems really racist man….

I can respect a position different than mine as long as it doesn’t infringe on human or civil rights
I can respect an opposition to gay marriage if they allow civil unions
I can respect an opposition to the ground zero mosque as long as they understand that they are allowed to have one

but I can’t respect someone who is so bigoted that they will make something up just so the can pervert the Constitution of The United States of America.
Herman Cain has tried to say that Islam isn’t a religion and that is a lie.

hahahahaha…terrorists are trying to kill us…hahahahaha.. its funny when they have no other excuse they say some s@#% like that to scare the S@#% out of old people to make them comply with their F@#%ed up agendas