Rule 1: When your enemy is busy destroying himself, don’t interfere. It was politically stupid for Republicans to release a policy agenda. What is driving the 2010 election is the American electorate’s reaction to the destructive legislation of the Democratic Party. However, I doubt this bit of foolishness will have a significant impact on the election.

It’s hard to understand how this pledge could be described as fiscally irresponsible. It repeals the stimulus (that’s a cut in spending), it repeals Obamacare (there’s another cut in spending), it keeps the taxpayer from being on the hook for Fannie & Freddie (that’s a BIG reduction in future outlays).

I guess some people (like Andrew Sullivan & Erick Erickson) read the part about not allowing tax rates to rise and stopped reading about the compensating cuts in spending. I guess that means we can dismiss their conclusions.

As for the pledge containing “requisite mentions of the Constitution”, a lot of Americans take the Constitution pretty seriously (as more and more Americans do every day). This used to be the tradition among elected officials (although few are alive today who can remember it). So despite what Ms. MacNicol implies, the reverence for the Constitution and its constraints upon gov’t are more than pro forma.

I like it. I’ll vote early and often.

So basically the argument on the left is that adhering to the constitution, and it’s limits, letting people keep more of their money, getting government out of their way and securing the borders is irresponsible.

Let the Democrats, leftists and progressives run on that objection and their worldview that the constitution is an antiquated obstacle to their gaining power, higher taxes and invasive government are good and the borders are meaningless. Good luck selling that load of crap.

meanwhile, the democrat party has responded with it own pledge:

We democrats pledge to take all your money! All your money!

Azarkhan says: “Rule 1: When your enemy is busy destroying himself, don’t interfere. It was politically stupid for Republicans to release a policy agenda.”

1) You listen to too much Beck; your/our countrymen are NOT enemies.

2) It’s the R’s destroying themselves with their civil jihad between the mainstream conservatives and the extremist Tea Party.

3) R’s are often politically stupid; it comes with the IQ.

Compound, nice lie. You come off as a bigger liar than Beck, and that’s saying a lot.

Beck’s lies are destroying people’s minds and our country.
http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/09/bias-vs-truthiness-analyzing-media.html

GBR:
You really need some help. Your obsession isn’t cute, it’s psychotic. You are a loon.

“Allow small businesses to take a tax deduction equal to 20 percent of their income.”

And if their profit margin is 1%, they get to deduct MORE than their net. Sounds pretty fiscally irresponsible to me.

“Require congressional approval for any new federal regulation that would add to the deficit.”

Already exists.

“Repeal small business mandates in the new health care law.”

Real small businesses, not the hedge funds these guys are talking about, are already seeing the benefits of being able to offer affordable health insurance for the first time. Sell it, Orange Man!

“Repeal and Replace health care”

Yeah, cause one knock-down drag-out political fight resulting in watered-down legislation isn’t enough, let’s do it again!

“Roll back non-discretionary spending to 2008 levels before TARP and stimulus (will save $100 billion in first year alone)”

And cut everyone’s COLA back two years, reducing Social Security checks, and so on. Super big winner here.

“Establish strict budget caps to limit federal spending going forward.”

Hey, where were you in 2001? LOL

“Cancel all future TARP payments and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”

Reform of anything to the GOP reactionaries is defined as “abolish.”

“Will require that every bill have a citation of constitutional authority.”

Good luck with that, Patriot Act lovers. LOL

“Give members at least 3 days to read bills before a vote”

See above

“Provide resources to troops.”

Could’ve started by voting for the defense appropriation bill the other day. LOL? Yeah, LOL.

“Fund missile defense.”

Done

“Enforce sanctions in Iran.”

And done.

OK, we’re done here, folks. The GOP officially has nothing. Thanks and drive home safely.

lonestar77 said:
GBR:
You really need some help. Your obsession isn’t cute, it’s psychotic. You are a loon.

You’d like to believe anyone who goes after Beck is psychotic, because it would make you feel better about your own psychosis for listening to him.

lonestar77 said:
GBR:
You really need some help. Your obsession isn’t cute, it’s psychotic. You are a loon.

He’s just soliciting for his site. He gets enough page views, he can sell the data to advertisers and make a buck or two.

What I’d like to see in there is specifics, but we won’t because these knuckleheads are just as screwed up as the current party in power.

Give me specifics like dissolving the Department of Education, dissolving the Department of Energy, pushing a Fair Tax, things like that. Talking in generalities is just another way politicians BS us.

GlennBeckReview said:
Azarkhan says: “Rule 1: When your enemy is busy destroying himself, don’t interfere. It was politically stupid for Republicans to release a policy agenda.”

1) You listen to too much Beck; your/our countrymen are NOT enemies.

2) It’s the R’s destroying themselves with their civil jihad between the mainstream conservatives and the extremist Tea Party.

3) R’s are often politically stupid; it comes with the IQ.

Compound, nice lie. You come off as a bigger liar than Beck, and that’s saying a lot.

Beck’s lies are destroying people’s minds and our country.
http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/09/bias-vs-truthiness-analyzing-media.html

Whatever dude. You’re just trying to get traffic for your dumb webpage. I caught you making false claims about me, what else are you making false claims about?

More Liberty said:
Whatever dude. You’re just trying to get traffic for your dumb webpage. I caught you making false claims about me, what else are you making false claims about?

You’ll have to go to his “dumb web page” to find out. Its kind of genius.

I encourage the Left to continue calling attention to the Republican pledge. These commitments of fiscal responsibility and government accountability are exactly what the voters want right now. The more the Left publicizes them, the better it will be for the Republicans on November 2.

No more tax and spend. I want cut and gut.

Paul,

There was no COLA this year for those receiving Social Security. Congress, however, did get a raise.

No one that I know who owns a small business is happy about ObamaCare.

What does 2001 have to do with today? If you are saying that one party rule is bad regardless of which party is in power, I agree.

You are just another party hack, aren’t you?

I’m shocked, shocked, I say that the Republicans came up with a stale reactionary plan, an early 90′s redux which failed then and will fail again. Can’t these people come up with any new ideas which might have some chance of working?

felixw said:
I encourage the Left to continue calling attention to the Republican pledge. These commitments of fiscal responsibility and government accountability are exactly what the voters want right now. The more the Left publicizes them, the better it will be for the Republicans on November 2.

Well, you’ll have to dig up Raygun and re-do the 80′s. He pretty much killed fiscal responsibility and governmental accountability in the Republican party, and I haven’t seen any evidence of a resurrection.

gordonbloyershow said:
No more tax and spend. I want cut and gut.

Brilliant, Marceaix, I say brilliant. The Japanese did just this in their 90′s recession and extended it for 10 years. Thanks, Basil, I mean Gordon. You can always come up with the hare-brained idea of the day.

The Real Royal King said:
I’m shocked, shocked, I say that the Republicans came up with a stale reactionary plan, an early 90’s redux which failed then and will fail again. Can’t these people come up with any new ideas which might have some chance of working?

Actually you’re wrong. The 90s were very prosperous after the Republicans took control of Congress.

GBR must be a magician-

This time he went from GOP + Pledge to America + John Boehner + Party of Undo = Glenn Beck.
ta da!

RichS said:
There was no COLA this year for those receiving Social Security. Congress, however, did get a raise.

True, but not by an act of Congress. From FactCheck.org – http://factcheck.org/2009/09/social-security-cola/

“Social Security checks have gone up automatically every year since 1975, when the first automatic cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) took effect. Prior to that, a separate act of Congress was required to grant any adjustment to compensate for inflation. But this January, there won’t be any COLA, for the first time in the 35 years the system has been in operation.

The reason is simple: The official measure of the cost of living has gone down, not up.

And the major reason for that is that oil prices plunged from the peaks of the previous year.”

RichS said:
No one that I know who owns a small business is happy about ObamaCare.

Yes, I base all my macroeconomic analysis on the anecdotal surveys I do around my neighborhood, too. And, perhaps surprisingly, every single one of those one-off conversations came to a different conclusion. ;-)

RichS said:
What does 2001 have to do with today? If you are saying that one party rule is bad regardless of which party is in power, I agree.

You’re kidding right? We had one party rule, during a time when Democrats were weak and used the filibuster as often as any other modern Congress, with a rubber stamp leadership that practically could have outlawed the color blue if they wanted. And absolutely ZERO fiscal responsibility when it counted. The EXACT same people finally come to Jesus and I’m supposed to care? Big, laugh-out-loud funny on that one.

RichS said:
You are just another party hack, aren’t you?

I’m a Democrat, you betcha. ;-)

Oh and Congress’ raise THIS year was approved LAST year. That’s the way it works. And talking about salaries is SO non-partisan. They’re all assholes on THAT front.

Rally, wail, push, pull, fight, lie, decieve, destroy. These ill-born,ill-bred, mal-educated, mal-adjusted GOPster misfits have been “un-doing” this nation for decades. Scum de terre.

Ezra of journolist complains that by being detailed and specific it’s going to hurt the GOP. We’ve been dealing with an administration that’s been the complete opposite and look at the results. Wasn’t it Pelosi who said “We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it”. Details and specifics are the HARD WORK on anything in life. That’s why lefties hate them.

From the Daily Beast and lib Gail Sheehy.

Six weeks before the election, President Obama couldn’t fill the ballroom at the Roosevelt Hotel, despite cheap tickets on offer. And then he was met by hecklers.
Who would have thought that six weeks before a cliffhanger election, President Obama would have to reach down to the D list to fill a room to listen to him? Most of us low rollers arrived early to see President Obama up close and personal. Our tickets for the general reception at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York were only $100. Some thought the email invitation was a joke. Some bought tickets for $50 from their desperate Democratic committeeman. Some bought the same day.
“It’s Filene’s,” enthused Sharon Douglas, reliving her heady days as a volunteer in Obama’s 2008 campaign. The doorman beckoned conspiratorially and ushered us out one door and in through another to stand at the back of the $500 line. Their crowd came from Wall Street in car services and killer heels. Our crowd came on subways in flats and scuffed teacher’s shoes.
Only after I received four email invitations and two personal calls imploring me to come did I call Speaker Pelosi’s office to check the admission price. “You mean, to be in the room with the President of the United States is now on fire sale for $100?”
”Yup.”
“How long do we get?”
“Half hour.”
“How many $100 givers have rsvp’d?”
“Mmmm 250.”
“Do we need to line up early to get in?”
“That’s not necessary. Everybody will get in.”
And everybody did—450 people in a room that holds 650. Even Obama’s fire sale didn’t sell out.

The new TEA-Republican Party is just more filled with hate filled loonies, and racist pigs. Maybe if we throw enough spaghetti in the road and see if these pigs can be led. They don’t seem to have any cohesive argument, but NO!

Paul Westlake said:
Oh and Congress’ raise THIS year was approved LAST year. That’s the way it works. And talking about salaries is SO non-partisan. They’re all assholes on THAT front.

Actually Congressman Vetter (R) tried to over turn the automatic pay raise enacted in 1989.

Paul Westlake said:
True, but not by an act of Congress. From FactCheck.org – http://factcheck.org/2009/09/social-security-cola/ “Social Security checks have gone up automatically every year since 1975, when the first automatic cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) took effect. Prior to that, a separate act of Congress was required to grant any adjustment to compensate for inflation. But this January, there won’t be any COLA, for the first time in the 35 years the system has been in operation. The reason is simple: The official measure of the cost of living has gone down, not up. And the major reason for that is that oil prices plunged from the peaks of the previous year.” Yes, I base all my macroeconomic analysis on the anecdotal surveys I do around my neighborhood, too. And, perhaps surprisingly, every single one of those one-off conversations came to a different conclusion. ;-) You’re kidding right? We had one party rule, during a time when Democrats were weak and used the filibuster as often as any other modern Congress, with a rubber stamp leadership that practically could have outlawed the color blue if they wanted. And absolutely ZERO fiscal responsibility when it counted. The EXACT same people finally come to Jesus and I’m supposed to care? Big, laugh-out-loud funny on that one. I’m a Democrat, you betcha. ;-)

As to the COLA comment, you talked about rolling back two years worth of SS COLAs, I let you know it would be only one year and you tell me I should check my facts? And Congress did get their raise, however. No chance of rolling that back. They get an automatic raise unless they take action to stop it. Do you know anyone else who has that arrangement?

You didn’t mention your source for your statement about small business’ being happy. Forgive me from actually talking to people, what an affront to you!

Your answer to my comment about one party rule makes no sense. Did you go off your medication?

More Liberty said:
Actually Congressman Vetter (R) tried to over turn the automatic pay raise enacted in 1989.

And Paul is someone who demands others check their facts. Do you think he knows what a fact is?

Paul checking facts, “Hello, DNC, what should I say today?”

gar said:
“We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it”

No, she said, “we have to pass the bill so YOU can find out what is in it, away from fog of controversy.” [emphasis added]

Since you cannot or choose not to understand what she meant, I’ll spell it out for you:

“You,” in this case, refers to the American people and their alleged guardians, the media. Since nobody seems to be able to sort out the facts from the lies (death panels, govt bureaucrats making medical decisions, etc), YOU will have to learn the truth on the ground, when the provisions take effect. THEN the facts and the fictions will become apparent. See? Not so bad. Cognitive skills are fun!

gar said:
Details and specifics are the HARD WORK on anything in life. That’s why lefties hate them.

Details are also where the Devil is allegedly found, and could explain superstitious neo-con vacillation on the subject – details that make liberals look bad = good, details that make liberals look good = bad. Tough call! Why must the Devil plague the neo-cons so? Why? Why? Why?

Muuhahaha

RichS said:
And Paul is someone who demands others check their facts. Do you think he knows what a fact is?”

See above, chuckles. ;-)

murphy0071 said:
The new TEA-Republican Party is just more filled with hate filled loonies, and racist pigs. Maybe if we throw enough spaghetti in the road and see if these pigs can be led. They don’t seem to have any cohesive argument, but NO!

Typical issueless talking points direct from the DNC headquarters. How is it that when Americans feel that maybe, just maybe the federal government should not spend trillions of dollars we dont have those Americans are some how “racist” and “hate” filled or “loonie.”

Is it nuts to believe that it is irresponsible to pack more and more debt onto the shoulders of our children’s children?

Am I a lunatic to believe that maybe the federal government should enforce our national laws?

Are Americans crazy because they feel that the federal government should at least be able to balance a check book?

I’ll tell you what is crazy – spending over $360 billion a year on interest payments on our debt. Now that is “loonie.”

RichS said:
As to the COLA comment, you talked about rolling back two years worth of SS COLAs, I let you know it would be only one year and you tell me I should check my facts?

I didn’t say anything about two years. I said it would reduce the amount of checks that would normally get a COLA. I didn’t realize the forecast had been updated to include no expectation of a COLA THIS year, too, but I never claimed anything about two years worth of checks. And I didn’t tell you to check your facts, I showed you THE facts in my comment.

RichS said:
And Congress did get their raise, however. No chance of rolling that back. They get an automatic raise unless they take action to stop it. Do you know anyone else who has that arrangement?

Hey I’m not happy about automatic pay raises either, but that wasn’t the point you were trying to make. You were trying to suggest that the Democratic majority was more interested in sitting around voting themselves pay raises than doing anything about anything else. You may BELIEVE that, but your snide little factoid about pay raises doesn’t PROVE it to be true.

RichS said:
You didn’t mention your source for your statement about small business’ being happy. Forgive me from actually talking to people, what an affront to you!

My source is the remarks by several governors, mostly Democratic, but a few Repubs, who have state unequivocally that the majority of small businesses in their States are happy with the new provisions, even though they hope the costs come down sooner than later. And I talk to people in small businesses all the time. I live in Brooklyn, where mom-and-pop shops are still the rule, all over the place. Most of them are THRILLED with the prospect of being able to provide affordable health coverage – even those that don’t find it very affordable yet. They like the idea and have put a little faith that prices can come down over time. That’s real.

RichS said:
Your answer to my comment about one party rule makes no sense. Did you go off your medication?

It made perfect sense, as evidenced by the fact that it obviously scrambled your brain. ;-)

[ding]

More Liberty says: ” I caught you making false claims about me”

YOU ARE A F#$KING ASSHOLE. HOW MANY F#$KING TIMES DO YOU NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I CONFUSED YOU – YES, YOU F$%KING ACKNOWLEDGED THIS ALREADY – WITH LIBERTY HOUND, HUH?

I’M NOT GOING TO REPEAT MY ERROR, BECAUSE YOU KNOW GOD DAMNED WELL THAT I ADMITTED MY ERROR, BUT YOU KEEP ON REPEATING THAT I LIED BECAUSE IT SERVES YOUR BULLSHIT, LAME AND MORALLY EMPTY CAUSE OF SUPPORTING THE LIAR AND HYPOCRITE, GLENN BECK.

THAT YOU KEEP TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO “FALSE CLAIMS” INSTEAD OF A MISTAKE THAT I ADMITTED TO AND APOLOGIZED FOR ONLY CORRUPTS YOUR INTEGRITY, NOT MINE.

MORE LIBERTY; KEEP IT UP! SHOW THE WORLD JUST HOW MORALLY CORRUPT THE FAR RIGHT IS.

Paul Westlake said:
I said it would reduce the amount of checks that would normally get a COLA.

Actually, I didn’t say that either! LOL Bad edit.

I said, people wouldn’t get COLAs in their checks, but I didn’t realize, at the time, that they probably won’t anyway. So not AS politically risky. But if people are expecting one, taking it away by an act of Congressional budget voodoo would go over like a lead balloon.

Paul said:

“Hey I’m not happy about automatic pay raises either, but that wasn’t the point you were trying to make. You were trying to suggest that the Democratic majority was more interested in sitting around voting themselves pay raises than doing anything about anything else. You may BELIEVE that, but your snide little factoid about pay raises doesn’t PROVE it to be true.”

You had no idea about COLAs not existing this year and no idea about automatic raises for Congress but you can tell me what I meant? You are delusional and not making any sense. Call your doctor, have him increase your dosage!

GlennBeckReview said:
More Liberty says: ” I caught you making false claims about me”

YOU ARE A F#$KING ASSHOLE. HOW MANY F#$KING TIMES DO YOU NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I CONFUSED YOU – YES, YOU F$%KING ACKNOWLEDGED THIS ALREADY – WITH LIBERTY HOUND, HUH?

I’M NOT GOING TO REPEAT MY ERROR, BECAUSE YOU KNOW GOD DAMNED WELL THAT I ADMITTED MY ERROR, BUT YOU KEEP ON REPEATING THAT I LIED BECAUSE IT SERVES YOUR BULLSHIT, LAME AND MORALLY EMPTY CAUSE OF SUPPORTING THE LIAR AND HYPOCRITE, GLENN BECK.

THAT YOU KEEP TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO “FALSE CLAIMS” INSTEAD OF A MISTAKE THAT I ADMITTED TO AND APOLOGIZED FOR ONLY CORRUPTS YOUR INTEGRITY, NOT MINE.

MORE LIBERTY; KEEP IT UP! SHOW THE WORLD JUST HOW MORALLY CORRUPT THE FAR RIGHT IS.

Maybe he just didn’t accept your apology.

Rogue-Comic said:
Maybe he just didn’t accept your apology.

fits your name today
did not see the original exchange, but your presentation (Rogue-Comic)
still laughing

murphy0071 said:
The new TEA-Republican Party is just more filled with hate filled loonies, and racist pigs. Maybe if we throw enough spaghetti in the road and see if these pigs can be led. They don’t seem to have any cohesive argument, but NO!

blah blah blah blah…hate..blah blah..racist…blah blah…pigs…blah blah… Murphy that crap simply doesn’t work anymore. You’ll be crying in November because the Progressives are about to take the beating of their lives and its only the beginning….so keep it up…blah blah..stupid…blah blah..ignorant…blah blah..

i just love the use of Media Matters research to run down Glenn Beck. A total progressive in the tank hit site. Im sure everything they do is credible. It must be driving them nuts (see glennbeckreview) that they are being ignored. Boycott..FAIL..Discredit Campaign..FAIL…Classes all over the Country about the founding fathers and the real history..Discredit Campaign against David Barton..FAIL….you’ll need your free obysmalcare before it gets repealed to get some psychotherapy.

RichS said:
You had no idea about COLAs not existing this year and no idea about automatic raises for Congress but you can tell me what I meant?

Normally I would point out the fact that I openly corrected myself when I realized I was wrong about the expected COLA next year. But that doesn’t mean I was wrong my other points and I think I’ve seen a conservative admit to being wrong a total of once on these boards and that honor goes to FearMonger. Neither you nor your reactionary friends are capable of pushing your egos out of the way long enough to admit a mistake, so throw all the stones you want, glasshouse boy. And by the way, the main point still holds true, and is, in fact, exacerbated by the lack of an increase two years in a row, but go ahead and defend future freezes. I’m sure that will be a very popular GOP plank in 2012.

RichS said:
You are delusional and not making any sense. Call your doctor, have him increase your dosage!

How clever the little urchins think they with their third grade-level insults…

Oh, OK, Sheriff! Ima gonna call right now.

LOL

I don’t know why I said, “normally I would,” when clearly I did. LOL Bad edits today. ;-)

Big surprise, never saw this coming…

I’m unclear, which part of healthcare does the tea partry want to change. The benefits for children or the benefits for college students that stay on the family plan. It could be the Angle plan that gets rid of benefits for children with mental disabilities, Does Sarah know about this?

timcajun said:
I’m unclear, which part of healthcare does the tea partry want to change

All of Obamacare has to go. Clear enough for you?

GlennBeckReview said:
YOU ARE A F#$KING ASSHOLE. HOW MANY F#$KING TIMES DO YOU NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I CONFUSED YOU – YES, YOU F$%KING ACKNOWLEDGED THIS ALREADY – WITH LIBERTY HOUND, HUH?

Someone forgot his Midol.

Paul Westlake said:
“Allow small businesses to take a tax deduction equal to 20 percent of their income.”

And if their profit margin is 1%, they get to deduct MORE than their net. Sounds pretty fiscally irresponsible to me.

“Require congressional approval for any new federal regulation that would add to the deficit.”

Already exists.

“Repeal small business mandates in the new health care law.”

Real small businesses, not the hedge funds these guys are talking about, are already seeing the benefits of being able to offer affordable health insurance for the first time. Sell it, Orange Man!

“Repeal and Replace health care”

Yeah, cause one knock-down drag-out political fight resulting in watered-down legislation isn’t enough, let’s do it again!

“Roll back non-discretionary spending to 2008 levels before TARP and stimulus (will save $100 billion in first year alone)”

And cut everyone’s COLA back two years, reducing Social Security checks, and so on. Super big winner here.

“Establish strict budget caps to limit federal spending going forward.”

Hey, where were you in 2001? LOL

“Cancel all future TARP payments and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”

Reform of anything to the GOP reactionaries is defined as “abolish.”

“Will require that every bill have a citation of constitutional authority.”

Good luck with that, Patriot Act lovers. LOL

“Give members at least 3 days to read bills before a vote”

See above

“Provide resources to troops.”

Could’ve started by voting for the defense appropriation bill the other day. LOL? Yeah, LOL.

“Fund missile defense.”

Done

“Enforce sanctions in Iran.”

And done.

OK, we’re done here, folks. The GOP officially has nothing. Thanks and drive home safely.

It’s the GOP so what you didn’t hear was.

1. Stop the flow of American Foreign aid to middle east countries like Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia ect.
2. Completely withdrawl ALL troops from Iraq and Afghanistan
3. Immedately STOP BUILDING billion dollar embassies in foreign lands.
Pull all american troops abroad and bring them home (this includes, troops stationed in Turkey, German, UK, Korea, Japan, Kuwait. ect)
4. Cease operations of all Military bases built in foreign lands.
5. Adopt a foreign policy of NUETRALITY (Shout out to Ron Paul)
6. cut the military budget by a 1/3
7. effectively END the American Empire.
8. STOP Trying to POLICE the world.

all of the above would limit us from fucking with anyone we wanted to and limit us from sticking our noises in other countries internal affairs. BUT on the same note, would save this country TRILLIONS each year, trimming the deficit and keep us Americans safe.. THEN you can turn your full attention to securing borders, immigration reform ect ect. But if you are making a case for “Fiscal responsibility” and you leave out the above, you shouldn’t be taken serious.

Paul Westlake says:

“Normally I would point out the fact that I openly corrected myself when I realized I was wrong about the expected COLA next year.”

We were talking about the past two years.

By the way, you were the only one being a party hack. I said one party rule was bad for the country, doesn’t matter the party. I also pointed out that Congress gets automatic pay raises. That was both Republican and Democrat controlled Congresses.

You are so busy projecting your party hack approach to these boards that you don’t realize that the majority of the country, myself included, aren’t interested in one party or the other getting their perqs and trappings of power. We are interested in running our own lives without an overbearing government. Now, go a sooth your fevered breast and leave the adults alone.

Azarkhan said:
All of Obamacare has to go. Clear enough for you?

So exactly what do you propose be put in its place to keep the insurnace giants in check, to look out for the policy holders and make sure they aren’t being denied services to save said insurance companies profit… Lets hear your idea, and don’t even say “tort reform” because it’s already been said it’ll save a few billion a year about 2%, thats NOT good enough. what do you propose to ease the burden on the families who are shelling out $500+ a month in premiums?

the Gop wants to repeal healthcare; they want to make the clusterfuck Bush taxcuts permanent; oh yes, of course -go back to the days of fattening the insurance companys……back to the days of giving billionaires tax cuts (they really need it)………..its funny how the GOP baggers are trying to save the world in a month or so–when they had 8 years to pass everything they are proposing now —and didn’t do it.
All these WASPS and old white people need to get their head out of Rush WindBaugh’s ass and face reality…..HEY GOP: ITS TOO LATE!!!!! – CLUSTERFUCK BUSH FUCKED IT UP FOR ALL OF YOU!!!!!!

jooce81 said:
So exactly what do you propose be put in its place

This may come as a shock, but prior to Obamacare, 85% of Americans not only had health insurance, but were happy with it. BTW, that was as recently as 2008.

jooce81 said:
what do you propose to ease the burden on the families who are shelling out $500+ a month in premiums?

Another shock. Thanks to Obamacare, health insurance premiums are going up, in some cases as much as 20%.

I don’t need to have proposals, I’m not a politician. (I do, but you wouldn’t go for them anyway, so I’m not going to waste our time.) But I can tell you what I do not propose.

I do not propose bankrupting the country to provide government health insurance for everyone, including illegals (after passing the disingenuous Comp Imm Reform). Or lying to the public about the cost of this new entitlement. Or passing the biggest entitlement since the 1960′s despite the fact that the majority of Americans opposed it. Or passing said biggest entitlement in the midst of a great recession.

All of that seems kind of stupid to me.

You see Jooce81, when you do shit like that, you lose control of the House and maybe, just maybe, control of the Senate. And just possibly, you wreck your chances to win reelection in 2012.

But, ideologues on the Left got what they wanted. However, I doubt they’ll be smiling on Nov 3.

Why does Congress need to take a pledge to do their job??? This is so Laughable. I boggles my mind that they think people take this serious! This party as well as the Democratic Party is why this country is in the shape its in!
Ya, go ahead and vote thiese crooks back into office. Then when you see nothing has changed. Or God forbid gets worse. Then maybe people will wake up and realize their must be a Party that will give back their freedoms and most of all their money! Click on my Avatar for more info…..

Azarkhan said:
All of Obamacare has to go. Clear enough for you?

So exactly what do you propose be put in its place to keep the insurnace giants in check, to look out for the policy holders and make sure they aren’t being denied services to save said insurance companies profit… Lets hear your idea, and don’t even say “tort reform” because it’s already been said it’ll save a few billion a year about 2%, thats NOT good enough. what do you propose to ease the burden on the families who are shelling out $500+ a month in premiums?

Azarkhan said:
This may come as a shock, but prior to Obamacare, 85% of Americans not only had health insurance, but were happy with it. BTW, that was as recently as 2008.

Another shock. Thanks to Obamacare, health insurance premiums are going up, in some cases as much as 20%.

I don’t need to have proposals, I’m not a politician. (I do, but you wouldn’t go for them anyway, so I’m not going to waste our time.) But I can tell you what I do not propose.

I do not propose bankrupting the country to provide government health insurance for everyone, including illegals (after passing the disingenuous Comp Imm Reform). Or lying to the public about the cost of this new entitlement. Or passing the biggest entitlement since the 1960’s despite the fact that the majority of Americans opposed it. Or passing said biggest entitlement in the midst of a great recession.

All of that seems kind of stupid to me.

You see Jooce81, when you do shit like that, you lose control of the House and maybe, just maybe, control of the Senate. And just possibly, you wreck your chances to win reelection in 2012.

But, ideologues on the Left got what they wanted. However, I doubt they’ll be smiling on Nov 3.

You bring up very valuable concerns, you really do, but this talk about bankrupting the country.. where was all this talk when we invaded iraq, and went to war with afghanistan?? where’s that talk when every year the amount of financial aid we send over seas grows by the billions (currently send over a trillion EVERY year) where is that talk? you wanna have a conversation about getting the deficit in order and financial responsibility that’s fine, but these are points that need to be made, its funny there aren’t ever mentioned…. whoa don’t talk about the 100+ billion we give to Israel every year or the hundreds of billions we give to SA and Jordan, or the cost of operating multiple wars, building useless embassies & airbases, don’t talk about any of that, those arent a problem, but trying to make healthcare affordable too all who want it is… the 700billion in tax cuts to the rich tat was forced on the middle class to foot the bill, thats not a problem.. see I’m open to conversation because thats what needs to happen to get this country out of the funk its in, the problem is the elected officals don’t want to talk, they dont wanna work together, they wanna wave their respected flags and only do what they want to do, and thats just not how this country operates. I don’t know if people just aren’t aware their tax dollars are being funneled overseas or what, but I see the road to a smaller deficit starting with our foreign policy as well as the smaller gov’t, only following thru on one of those, isn’t going to change much

jooce81 said:
So exactly what do you propose be put in its place to keep the insurnace giants in check, to look out for the policy holders and make sure they aren’t being denied services to save said insurance companies profit… Lets hear your idea, and don’t even say “tort reform” because it’s already been said it’ll save a few billion a year about 2%, thats NOT good enough. what do you propose to ease the burden on the families who are shelling out $500+ a month in premiums?

nothing in obysmal care addressing anything in the way of costs or savings. it was a pure lie and shell game. Instead of doing away with consumer driven healthcare because the dems don’t like people to actually think for themselves, you actually use incentives so people can ease into those type plans, whether its a tax or payroll credit. If you put consumer in charge and accountable, they negotiate, shop around and get the best deals. You can’t eliminate pre-existing clauses because people will only get coverage when they need it and all insurance products are based on spreading the risk around. Stop drinking the business hating progressive kool-aid. profit margins for the large insurance companies are not out of line with any other business and actually are less than most. Also, most medium to large employers are self insured. You can also allow for people to pick the type of benefits they want. Most states and some federal guidelines mandate coverages for things people may not want to cover. someone has to pay for that. i think you can ban any insurance product individual or group plan from being able to drop someone until they hit the plan max or stop paying premiums. that wouldn’t take a 2500 page bill. You can also increase the preexisting exclusion period from the current 63 day waiver to 120 days or something in that range.

I also think states can have high risk pools to ensure that people have some sort of coverage and pay premiums based on income. If they are in the pool for a year than they would qualify for the preex exclusion at their place of employment if they can become employed. There are ways to spread risk that will help drive costs down.

The current plan is basically a setup to drive the insurance industry out of business. They will be demonized by the Democrats for needlessly increasing premiums when the fact is the law is designed to flood the market with the sickest people in the beginning and will only add sick people to the rolls because there isn’t any danger in not having insurance because you can just sign up when you get sick.

jooce81 said:
It’s the GOP so what you didn’t hear was.

1. Stop the flow of American Foreign aid to middle east countries like Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia ect.
2. Completely withdrawl ALL troops from Iraq and Afghanistan
3. Immedately STOP BUILDING billion dollar embassies in foreign lands.
Pull all american troops abroad and bring them home (this includes, troops stationed in Turkey, German, UK, Korea, Japan, Kuwait. ect)
4. Cease operations of all Military bases built in foreign lands.
5. Adopt a foreign policy of NUETRALITY (Shout out to Ron Paul)
6. cut the military budget by a 1/3
7. effectively END the American Empire.
8. STOP Trying to POLICE the world.

all of the above would limit us from fucking with anyone we wanted to and limit us from sticking our noises in other countries internal affairs. BUT on the same note, would save this country TRILLIONS each year, trimming the deficit and keep us Americans safe.. THEN you can turn your full attention to securing borders, immigration reform ect ect. But if you are making a case for “Fiscal responsibility” and you leave out the above, you shouldn’t be taken serious.

Right freaking on. I agree and happily associate myself with every one of your points. Avoiding foreign entanglements used to be a conservative ideal – now it’s “being naive.” Funny how the people who defend American imperialism can never really articulate the benefits of this endless warfare. All they think is, let’s bomb them there so they don’t bomb us here – as though everyone that isn’t sufficiently bombed into submission will seize the respite to hurls bombs at us, much smaller bombs, of course. We faced down the entire Soviet machine with little more than bungling clandestine services and shrewd economic policy but chasing (and still not catching) Osama Bin Laden takes ten times the resources, and that’s A-OK with the neo-con apologists who, it seems, care more about having Bin Laden to use as a bogieman than having him brought up on charges in an American court.

What a world.

musiccityvic said:
obysmal care

musiccityvic said:
it was a pure lie and shell game

musiccityvic said:
because the dems don’t like people to actually think for themselves

musiccityvic said:
Stop drinking the business hating progressive kool-aid

musiccityvic said:
current plan is basically a setup to drive the insurance industry out of business

musiccityvic said:
will be demonized by the Democrats

How can anyone possibly disagree? Those buzzwords are strong magic. mmm

a

Paul Westlake said:
How can anyone possibly disagree? Those buzzwords are strong magic. mmm

and none of it is incorrect.

jooce81 said:
1. Stop the flow of American Foreign aid to middle east countries like Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia ect.
2. Completely withdrawl ALL troops from Iraq and Afghanistan
3. Immedately STOP BUILDING billion dollar embassies in foreign lands.
Pull all american troops abroad and bring them home (this includes, troops stationed in Turkey, German, UK, Korea, Japan, Kuwait. ect)
4. Cease operations of all Military bases built in foreign lands.
5. Adopt a foreign policy of NUETRALITY (Shout out to Ron Paul)
6. cut the military budget by a 1/3
7. effectively END the American Empire.
8. STOP Trying to POLICE the world.

Jooce81, even if we did all of what you suggest, the US would still be in trouble. The growth and mandatory spending required on entitlement programs (even without counting Obamacare) is what is killing the US Treasury. You can google it, or look at the IRS booklet you get at tax time. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veteran benefits, interest on the debt, etc.–those are the big money items. I don’t have time to verify it now, but an educated guess is that entitlement programs and financing the debt take up approximately 70% of the US budget.

And with the baby boom generation beginning to retire, those costs are going to skyrocket.

Azarkhan: keep the hate alive! 85% had healthcare where did that number come from, its not true! Health insurance has went up because of Obamacare? Heath insurance has increased in cost every other year for the last 60 years! This was before Obama was trying to fake his birth record, knowing he would become pres. Lets make sure we take away heathcare from the children, those dirty little bastards! Lets make sure and praise the second republican contract with American, the first one worked so well! Keep them mad, scared and tell them what they want to hear!

The Real Royal King said:
Well, you’ll have to dig up Raygun and re-do the 80’s. He pretty much killed fiscal responsibility and governmental accountability in the Republican party, and I haven’t seen any evidence of a resurrection.

You gotta love the Left. They worry about balancing the 1980 budget, but don’t want to talk about the disastrous budget for 2010, and the huge projected deficits for 2011, 2012, 2013, etc. Have you ever seen such feeble spin?

Look at the beautiful fiscal performance of your bumbling leader in the White House.

http://www.gaypatriot.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/wapoobamabudget1.jpg

timcajun said:
85% had healthcare where did that number come from, its not true!

From the US Census:
Overall, 45.7 million people, or 15.3 percent of U.S. residents, did not have health insurance in 2007, the bureau said in releasing reports on poverty, income and insurance. That represents a decrease from the 2006 level of 47 million, or 15.8 percent.

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-26/health/census.uninsured_1_health-insurance-health-care-system-families-usa?_s=PM:HEALTH

timcajun said:
Health insurance has went up because of Obamacare?

…The state’s largest health insurer was granted rate hikes Friday that will be well over 20 percent for some plans, drawing sharp criticism from the attorney general.

Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield in Connecticut requested a wide range of premium increases, which will take effect Oct. 1, to cover the costs of new benefits required by federal health reform. Higher prices mostly affect new members shopping for a health plan on the individual market rather than people who have group plans through an employer or some other organization…

New provisions mandated by federal law to start Thursday include allowing young adults to stay on their parents’ plan until they turn 26, eliminating annual and lifetime limits on the amount of money an insurer spends per customer and mandating that insurers cover the full cost of preventive services, such as mammograms and colonoscopies.

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-anthem-rate-hike-0918-20100917,0,2399459.story

There are many other examples, but you can do your own research. BTW, when the goverment imposes mandates on insurers, who do you think is going to pay???

GOP Pledges To America To Become The Official ‘Party Of Undo’
by Glynnis MacNicol

… So, in case you missed it, here is what the GOP is promising you America. Spoiler alert: It has failed to dazzle.
Read More »

We are used to that. When it says “by Glynnis MacNicol” at the top, we know it’s already spoiled.

I stand corrected Blue Cross and 90% of all health insurance companies, seldom have rate increases. What was I thinking?

timcajun said:
What was I thinking?

You were thinking that none of the rate increases were caused by the Obamacare mandates. You were wrong.

timcajun said:
What was I thinking?

BTW, you were also wrong when you disputed my statement that 85% of Americans had coverage prior to Obamacare. It’s OK to be wrong. Just don’t stay wrong. We already have enough dumb leftists who do that.

Azarkhan said:
You were thinking that none of the rate increases were caused by the Obamacare mandates. You were wrong.

Over a year ago, long before health care reform passed, Blue Cross wanted to hike the rates of the small company I worked for 19%. They negotiated down to around 13% increase, but still a large increase for a small business trying to grow.

CosmosDan said:
Over a year ago, long before health care reform passed, Blue Cross wanted to hike the rates of the small company I worked for 19%. They negotiated down to around 13% increase, but still a large increase for a small business trying to grow.

No one is disputing that something needed to be done to try and control health care costs, the problem is Obamacare may actually make it worse. It really did next to nothing to address the costs of the actual care. It piles huge unfunded mandates on the states at a time when none of them can even come close to paying it without giant tax increases.

That is what this bill is all about. Taking money from one segment and giving it to another. Look at the bill and the resulting damage it will do. Read studies from all sources and just not the DCC talking points. It really is a horrible bill with untold ramifications both financial and physically.

musiccityvic said:
That is what this bill is all about. Taking money from one segment and giving it to another.

That redistributionist class warfare meme is both old and wrong. First, when it comes to redistributing wealth, nobody does it faster or more than conservatives sucking wealth out of the middle working class – fact! Second, while most agree that the financial provisions of the bill are far from optimal, the bill actually lowers the deficit, contrary to GOP talking points, and the main points had more to do with things like pre-existing conditions and covering more of the 47 million Americans going without coverage and care. And even the most ardent champions have made clear that it’s incomplete and requires follow-up legislation to fix the financial issues.

Your advice to look at more than one set of sources is actually a two-way street, buddy. But you keep hammering away at those falsehoods, they may stick someday.

felixw said:
I encourage the Left to continue calling attention to the Republican pledge. These commitments of fiscal responsibility and government accountability are exactly what the voters want right now. The more the Left publicizes them, the better it will be for the Republicans on November 2.

It’s amazing how ironic that statement is, because I think it fiscal irresponsibility and lack of government accountability that lost the 2006 and 2008 elections for the Republicans, and now they are an insignificant minority in the house, and a pain in the Senate. I think the Republican pledge is a rehash of the 1994 promises that they did not keep, and they are asking us to trust them this time.

How does that Bushism go, “fool me once, shame on — [pauses] — shame on you. Fool me — [pauses] — You can’t get fooled again.”

Rogue-Comic says: “Maybe he just didn’t accept your apology.”

He acknowledged it. Made it clear that he understood that I had made an error. When he continues to claim that I lied about him, then he’s just being a sleazy a-hole, amoral a-hole.

The fact that this group of Republican politicians felt the need to put forth a “pledge to America”, tells me their just as scared as the Demo-Rats. Everything in their pledge should be the norm, they live by daily. Instead, they have to tell us what they intend to do?! Where the hell have these clowns been? Their just now recognizing that they owe us their full attention to the priorities that should have had their attention without having to write a pledge too do?!
Look at everyone on that stage, and ask yourself, do these people need to be representing us, or are they just more of the same?

Azarkhan, has corrected me again! There has never been an insurance company that raised their rate, that was not Obamas fault. We must also tell all insurance agents in this country, we don’t need them anymore, 85% of all persons have healthcare now! Thanks, I didn’t want to stay wrong.

timcajun said:
Azarkhan, has corrected me again! There has never been an insurance company that raised their rate, that was not Obamas fault. We must also tell all insurance agents in this country, we don’t need them anymore, 85% of all persons have healthcare now! Thanks, I didn’t want to stay wrong.

Have you ever looked at the profit margins of major insurance companies? It’s usually <2%, but never over 5%. You may not have ever run a business but these are miniscule margins and insurance companies are extremely competitive. What's really important to ask yourself is WHY do we need insurance? Could it be tort law? I believe you will find that's a huge part of the costs. Did you know there are FOUR separate FEDERAL laws (and numerous state laws) that require hospitals and doctors to provide healthcare regardless of the patient's ability to pay for it? The point is, everyone–even criminal aliens–already HAVE "free" healthcare. Oh, yeah, and by the way, there is no such thing as "free." For every dollar provided by the government, there is a dollar confiscated from someone who had to work for it.