I guess there was no need to point out that this same organization has a petition out exhorting Trinity Church to provide sanctuary to OWS, advocates Obamacare, and is firmly opposed to the Keystone Pipeline?

The idea that your average teenage suicide can be chalked up to what a conservative Christian says on a cable network that no one watches is, on its face, retarded. The taunts and torments, the mocking and bullying, the ostracizing is as old as humanity itself. Show me a single society in the last 1000 years that, for the most part, accepted homosexuality as completely normal and I’ll give you a cookie. A teenage male bully does not need any motivation whatsoever to decide being gay is weird, uncool and warrants derision. It’s in their DNA. I doubt religion plays a role in even 1% of these cases. This is another example of a pressure group that has decided the Bill of Rights is old hat and it’s high time we stopped allowing voices, they disagree with, on television.

MSNBC obviously has a conservative bias having Tony Perkins on more than any other network.

This doesn’t have anything to do with the bill of rights…in fact, this is the free market at work. The first amendment guarantees that “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech.” Tony Perkins has every right to say what he thinks, and this petition doesn’t threaten that right in any way. They are, in fact, exercising their own right to free speech in trying to influence the people who make decisions about what goes on TV. Since there is no legislation being proposed, there is no constitutional issue here.

I agree that the Family Research Council isn’t a very influential group, and that their views have probably not incited violence towards gay people…that has to do with other social pressures and societal dysfunctions. It does irk me, though, that a network could put Tony Perkins on the air and then believe that it has heard from Christianity at large; Perkins represents only a small fraction of the Church, and he sure as anything doesn’t represent me. 

Consider, too, how often FRC and similar organizations have used petitions, boycotts and other strategies to influence public opinion and to have things taken off the air. How is that different from what “Faithful America” is doing here?

 Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors,
Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by
the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and
Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of
the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach
U.S. drivers’ tanks.

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers

By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into
export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase
the cost of gas for Americans.TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing
markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest],
are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian
heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone
XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the
Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the
price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The
resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide
an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013
of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.According to an independent analysis
U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see
expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline
goes through. At least $500 million of the added expense would come from
the Canadian market manipulation.

“The Southern Poverty Law Center lists them as a hate group”

There’s no legal definition for “hate group,” which is why even the FBI does not, cannot, designate “hate groups.”

The SPLC uses the deliberately meaningless “hate group” label in its fund-raising materials because it allows then to denigrate any group without accusing them of any actual crimes.

The Boy Scouts of America have stated publicly for decades that gay men “lack the morals” to be Scout Leaders and that “duty to God is an obligation” for those choosing to associate with the BSA.

Despite the fact that the BSA receives public funds,discriminates in hiring gay men and its core mission is to mold the minds and shape the characters of millions of American boys, you won’t find word one about the Boy Scouts on the SPLC’s web page.

So when is a “fundamentalist Christian anti-gay hate group” not a “hate group”?

It’s simple. Many of the SPLC’s mostly elderly donors were Scouts or the parents/grandparents of Scouts. Linking the almighty donors to a “hate group” is bad for business.

http://wp.me/pCLYZ-8u

“Fighting hate” is all well and good, until it cuts into the bottom line.

Some “experts”

The spartans

the athenans

the Roman Empire

I said 1000 yrs.

Everything you said here is completely valid and I agree with it, cheers.
Boycots, in general with few exceptions, bug me. This particular one – essentially saying that MSNBC is helping to encourage teenage suicide – is absurd and unwarranted. Rather than debate Tony Perkins, who I couldn’t care less about, these people prefer to bully, lie and smear. This particular action may not betray a disregard for the freedom of speech, but these folks don’t strike me as the types who would have much of a problem with a speech law aimed at the Perkins’ of the world. But that’s just my $0.02 when I consider the tactics they deploy.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a joke.

It’s in their DNA

No, it’s in their indoctrination , because of “Christian” teachings about homosexuality.
That indoctrination has led to a lot of pain and suffereing for innocent people who did nothing to warrant it.

  Rather than debate Tony Perkins, who I couldn’t care less about, these people prefer to bully, lie and smear.

read it again The quote is

We want you to hear that we would like for other Christian voices to be consulted, even conservative Christian voices,but just not those associated with what is clearly a hate group

“other Christian voices” “not just those”

I feel confident that they’d be more than willing to be on the air debating Tony
They didn’t bully, they organized and expressed themsleves. They didn’t lie or smear, they voiced thier opinion. Whether you give the SPLC credibility or not there are specific reasons they designate groups as hate groups.

So you want an example of 1000 years out of 10000 (or 6 if you believe that sort of thing)? That’s a small sampling. No empire or civilization or what have you has lasted more then a couple hundred years in that time. The Greeks and the Romans both lasted a thousand or so.

No, they smeared. They explicitly insinuated that Perkins and people like him are responsible for the suicides of gay youths. You may agree with that. But it can;t be proven and is therefore a smear. And by my account truly disgusting.

Amazing how they keep winning the suits they bring, must be that LIBERAL thing that gives them their mojo, and by the way they are not a joke they have been subjected to terorist attacks by WHITE CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS many of whom are serving rather long sentances.

So, it’s Christian teaching that leads Muslims to mutilate, torture and kill homosexuals? I wonder how the Mayan’s felt about homosexuality. I wonder if the American Indians were cool with it? The idea that straight men, regardless of time and space, need Christianity to tell them that inserting a penis in another man’s anus is odd and abnormal, is ridiculous. If you dislike Christians, I guess that’s ok. But blaming all the ills of the world on “Christian indoctrination” is just asinine. 

 Your grinding that ax into the wood of the handle, I am sorry you do not like the BOY SCOUTS and want to have them prosecuted which by the way they have been taken to court over the issue of gay scout masters and they lost or do you not remember when christian conservative republicans tried to give the BOY SCOUTS a legal right to discriminate against homosexuals, did not go anywhere as it would have been blatantly un-constitutional to allow this law to pass plus the BSA asked them to drop it because they could not defend it.

Small sampling it may be, my point is that straight men having issues with homosexual men goes back to time immemorial. Your exceptions are noted, although I would certainly quibble with every one to an extent (but Lord, would that be boring). But exceptions do not make the rule. If you think that accepting homosexuality is the natural state for Man, you’re welcome to. I disagree and would argue that it’s the exact opposite. I find homophobia in 2012 to be real and regretful. But that doesn’t mean I accept the argument that Tony Perkins and people who sit in a pulpit on Sunday are mostly to blame for a teenager being bullied in school. And I would argue that the word “Jesus”, 99.9% of the time, doesn’t cross the frat-boys mind right before he yells….”Fagggg”

Yes, the “Family Research Council” is a hate group. Their sole raison d’etre is to spread lies and hatred for gay and lesbian people. These people of faith are right: Tony Perkins is giving faith a bad name.

 Really? I guess they must not be Christians after all. Hard to believe real Chrisitians could support that stuff.

Where did I say they weren’t Christians? What I did point out, which is rather easy to tell by reading what I wrote, is that they’re a left-wing group. This article takes careful note to point out the FRC is characterized as a “hate group” by the SPLC and presents “Faithful America” as only being concerned with the rather uncontroversial topic of teen suicide. I think it’s clearly a case of a left-wing group agitating against a right-wing group. There’s nothing wrong with that, but if the situation was reversed, I’m pretty sure that the FRC would be characterized as conservative activists, as they should be. 

I consider the SPLC a hate group.

What a crock.  I had to laugh at so called Bishop Gene Robinson.  The first openly gay bishop of his church.  He puts a middle finger every day into the face of God by his homosexual actions that he believes God condones.  There is a special hot place in hell for him if he does not repent of his evil ways.  Gene calls evil good and good is evil.  God is not mocked.

Can it be proven to a scientific certainty? Of course not. However, since it’s more true than not I wouldn’t call it a smear. The attitude expressed by  Perkins and his group , the willful repetition of lies and jumk science aimed at opressing a specific group and painting them as  some sick danger to society. IMO, that’s far more disgusting than a group working to combat thier lies and defend the humanity and equality of our gay citizens.

If you’re at all interested in another perspective I suggest the film, “The Bible Tells Me So” 
The idea that homosexuality is sick, perverted, and abomination, a sin agasint God and nature, a danger to society, espescially children, is a direct product of generations of religious indoctrination. It’s not DNA.
Try to imagine living in fear of your own desires because you’ve been taught that they are sick and disgusting. Imagine being rejected by friends and family and constantly ridiculed simply for being who you are.
That’s the kind of thing Perkins and his group helps continue by actively campaigning on lies.

 Sorry about the excessive sarcasm.

My impression is they , and others, like Sojourners are tired of conservative Christians speaking for Christianity.

We’re talking about homosexuality in American society which has been predominantly Christian since the beginning.. We as a young nation treated native Americans in pretty horrific ways but that doesn’t mean I don’t like America because I can acknowledge it. The facts are what they are. You might want to learn a little more about homosexuality in different cultures in history. You’re mistaken.
I’m not even close to blaming “all the ills of the world” on Christianity. Organized religions are created and continued by flawed humans. They do lots of good stuff, and their share of bad stuff, as humans tend to do. Some Christians support gay rights and some campaign against them. The oines that campaign against gays rights are dead wrong on this issue, and some, like Perkins and his group, are nastier than others.

The fact that you  reduce homosexuality to one particular sex act. is pretty demeaning to your fellow citizens amd a big part of the problem.

I never demeaned anyone. You spend alot of time and energy spouting platitudes and your own opinions, but no actual facts and specifics. I get it, you think gays are maltreated and need to fight back, fair enough. Just leave the, “im pretty sure you cause suicides, even though I can’t prove it any way but my own opinion” lines for the birds.  It undermines your argument and doesn’t makes you look a zealot. Good day.

I know, it’s shocking that there are Christians out there who aren’t conservative.

Personally, one problem I have with both MSNBC and Fox is that they rarely have people from the opposing party on their talk shows.

So, although I can’t stand Tony Perkins, I like to see conservatives on MSNBC because they can at least be questioned and can be engaged in a discussion.

I never demeaned anyone.

You did, and it’s unfortunate you can’t see how. The issue is about equality for a certain group of people in our society in a lot of aspects in their lives. Men and women , their freedom to love and live openly without be judged harshly or being treated as less of a person. To reduce all of the life that entails to one sex act that grosses you out,{ that not all gay men participate in btw} is demeaning.

You spend alot of time and energy spouting platitudes and your own opinions, but no actual facts and specifics.

  I’ve put some time into looking at the facts of this issue, have you.? Mediaite is hardly the forum for a long detailed discussion, but you could simply google” homosexuality in other cultures” and in five minutes you’ll see your posts are wrong.

I get it, you think gays are maltreated and need to fight back, fair enough.

It’s not just a personal opinion based on my imagination. There are miles of documentation to support it, while groups like Perkin’s have ZERO, and resort to lies and junk science to impose their morality on others, and to deny gays equality.

Just leave the, “im pretty sure you cause suicides, even though I can’t prove it any way but my own opinion” lines for the birds

I doubt anyone except a few overly emotional zealots blame Perkins and similar groups for directly causing anyone to commit suicide. The very real and relevant point is that the attitude and atmosphere fostered and promoted by Perkins and his ilk contributes. They continue to spread the lies that permeated our society. Lies that do real harm to innocent people for no good reason. It’s the same as any other hateful discrimination of any group, and linking that kind of ignorance to any religion doesn’t make it special and deserving of consideration. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but contiuned ignorance and actively supporting it, in the face if the suffering of others is a bad karmic choice.

 Neither the Greek nor Roman society lasted for anything close to 1000 years.

How in the world, did the USA get so many whiners and cry babies.;….just shut up about everything, if you do not like someone’s viewpoint, turn the darn channel!

Everything under the sun, now offends someone!   It’s sickening!

Just take MSNBC off the air and solve everyone’s problem.

Greek society started around 800 BC and lasted until the Roman invasion of about 146 BC. Granted the civilization was split between Thebes, Athens and Sparta til about 400 BC when they united against the Persians and its height under Alexander in about 330 BC. So all in all about 700 years or so. Though Cleopatra and the controlling family of Egypt was Greek, so you could say up to 25 BC. The Roman Empire was officially formed under Octavian around 27 BC and he was declared the first Caesar. Before that Roman Republic was in power of most of Western Europe for about 500 years. The Empire lasted until Constantine split the Empire in two and moved to Constantinople around 470 AD. The west basically became the Holy Roman Empire (later the Roman Catholic Church- still around)and the Eastern Empire fell to the Turks in 1453.

So yeah, they did.

I’ve got nothing against the BSA, my gripe is with the hypocrisy of the SPLC.

The BSA meets ALL of the SPLC’s spurious critera for a “conservative Christian anti-gay hate group,” but they won’t even acknowledge it for fear of offending the almighty donors.

And you’re okay with that?

Maybe the BSA does have a legal right to discriminate against gays. When I was a boy organizations had a legal right to keep Blacks from voting, eating in public restaurants or sitting in the front of the bus. REAL civil rights groups put a stop to that.

A hundred years before then, people had a legal right to own, buy and sell other human beings until righteous Christians fought to put an end to that practice too.

One last factoid about your heroes at the SPLC. NOT ONE of the SPLC’s top executives is a minority.

In fact, despite being located LITERALLY in the back yard of Dr. King’s home church in Montgomery, the SPLC has NEVER hired a person of color to a highly paid position of authority in its entire 40 year history.

http://wp.me/pCLYZ-7m

Some “heroes”