Geez, normal people have been pointing out Muslim treatment of women for many, many years. Did Maher just figure this out now?

(Now, is it Joy Maher or Bill Behar? I can’t help it, it makes me laugh!)

Maher actually sounded very level-headed on this and Tavis Smiley sounded like a total moron. I would like to know what the process is for allowing people into the audience. It seems that he gets a lot of nutcases.

Did someone replace Bill Maher with Bill O’Reilly when I wasn’t looking? This isn’t the Bill Maher I know…..

Maher had spoken out against Muslims. http://www.examiner.com/muslim-in-portland/bill-maher-calls-muslims-violent and http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/hollywoodland/2010/11/02/bill-maher-stands-by-islam-remarks-im-a-proud-westerner/

That said, the heckler in the audience wasn’t heckling about the subject being discussed at the time.

Helix said:
Did someone replace Bill Maher with Bill O’Reilly when I wasn’t looking? This isn’t the Bill Maher I know…..

I think thats a little unfair. Granted I don’t usually agree with Bill M. but this is a topic where there is not much room for grey area. Even though Travis Smiley tried his best to create some sort of grey equivalency.

Bill M may be dumb but he’s not stupid.

I say let’s send Allen West there to straighten them out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEJpc4qwDno

Helix said:
Did someone replace Bill Maher with Bill O’Reilly when I wasn’t looking? This isn’t the Bill Maher I know…..

What do you mean? This is classic Bill Maher. See this: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-afraid-mohammeds-islam-taking-over-western-world/

Helix said:
Did someone replace Bill Maher with Bill O’Reilly when I wasn’t looking? This isn’t the Bill Maher I know…..

That’s because you’ve never actually watched an entire Bill Maher show. You’ve only seen clips of him on Newsbusters.

Bill has actually talked about this before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjqXt_wRkS8&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8OSi89Cjvo&feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUEaMA4gRIk&feature=related

last one is best, but all are good.

Eric Larson said:
I think thats a little unfair. Granted I don’t usually agree with Bill M. but this is a topic where there is not much room for grey area. Even though Travis Smiley tried his best to create some sort of grey equivalency.

Bill M may be dumb but he’s not stupid.

He sure nailed Travis and the topic this time. I almost never agree with Bill M either but this time he hit it out of the park.

You’d think with a name like Tavis Smiley , he’d be more of a ” glass half full ” kind of guy .

Watch out liberals, something very Dennis Miller is spawning here!

espo222 said:
Maher actually sounded very level-headed on this and Tavis Smiley sounded like a total moron. I would like to know what the process is for allowing people into the audience. It seems that he gets a lot of nutcases.

Maher, like most TV shows in LA (save ratings powerhouses like “American Idol”), is a very easy ticket. Both “Real Time” and the “Late Late Show” with Craig Ferguson tape at CBS Television City, next to The Price Is Right, which seats 324 audience members and typically tapes twice a day (on those days it does tape). Those 648 total audience members get aggressively pursued, as they exit TPIR, to fill whatever seats are left on either Real Time or the Late Late Show. And if you don’t attend TPIR, picking up a ticket for “Real Time” is pretty much as easy as walking up to the ticket booth, even just a couple of days prior.

All that to say – there’s no real “process”, it’s ridiculously easy. The reason you see nutcases on his show is because he’s live; any nutcase in the audience for Dave, Conan, Jay, Kimmel (no longer live), Stewart, Colbert, etc. would never make air. The only other national live talk show with audience I can think of Regis and Kelly – which has a 12-month waiting list for tickets. (You might as well yell out during SNL.)

Yea Bill, boo Tavis. There is not a lot of wiggle room to state that being called “sugar tits” is a bad a losing your head. It’s the yeah their bad for killing women, but we are still way worse than they could ever be because we are in America, that annoys me. Remember Tavis, you still get to make statements that are absurd and not have to worry about waking up in you own vomit in some four by four room because you pissed off the government. At least not yet, ever vigilant guys, ever vigilant.

Maher was having it out with Smiley over relative treatment of women in Muslim countries and American society – Smiley didn’t argue that Muslim countries often exhibit poor attitudes toward women, but argued treatment of women in America has a long way to go, too. Maher called it a “false equivalency,” and it went on from there.

Lol, didn’t CosmosDan and I have a similar discussion last night?

They were arguing different things. Tavis, tangentially was rejecting the premise of a society being judged solely by the way it treats women. Maher was arguing and saying that Islamic countries in general treat their women like shit and would never have a true democracy that way. The problem arises when you try and bridge those two arguments by using the same scale. They are both solid arguments weighed independently.

Mulsim men treat women like shit. News at 11!

Finally, a sudden expression of one of the conflicting sides of Liberal Cognitive Dissonance through Mediaite’s choice of imagery. The flippant yet shamed manner on Bill Maher’s face and an unexpected flash of a bewildered Tavis Smiley subsequently in the corner. Exposing that in fact, it may be true what Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, David Cameron (UK), Angela Merkel (DE), Dinesh D’Souza, Dennis Prager, Kurt Westergaard, and Pat Condell have been expostulating. A fantastically persistent Liberal bend over to Muslim sensitivity, if not manipulation upon their legislative, political, and media non-sense and propaganda. While deliberately mocking, defaming, and disparaging Christianity and it’s history under the dubious cover of “Free Speech”, “Separation of Church and State(?)” , “Universal Rights”.

Thank you, Mediaite.

Gasket said:
They were arguing different things. Tavis, tangentially was rejecting the premise of a society being judged solely by the way it treats women. Maher was arguing and saying that Islamic countries in general treat their women like shit and would never have a true democracy that way. The problem arises when you try and bridge those two arguments by using the same scale. They are both solid arguments weighed independently.

Looks like someone is a little “wishy washy”….I’m shocked that Gasket is to afraid to take a stance….shocked I tell you!

Finally . Maher got it right . ( Smiley is a typical liberal nitwit . )
When and if Muslim women rise up things will improve . No woman from a civilized country would put up with a tenth of what Muslim women do .

I am kind of confused, Maher complains about Muslims treating women badly…which I agree with him.

However, isn’t beating up your girlfriend, as Maher did, treating women badly too?

What am I missing?

Tavis Smiley being paid with tax payer dollars??
How do we stop that?

In the U.S., up to about 80 years ago, woman were denied the right to vote, were paid extremely low wages, were often physically beaten (without legal recourse), could not own property, could not obtain a divorce, could not obtain an abortion, and otherwise were treated like second class (non-voting) citizens. And the primary justification for such treatment, was the Bible and Christian religious tradition. Progressive thought changed all of that, and now woman have substantially the same rights as men. Likewise, progressive thought in the middle east and in other Islamic countries will eventually accord woman fair treatment.

i think both sides made some excellent and relevant points. i must say, i come down on the side of Maher, though.
Go figure. haha

Maher’s closing statement, I thought, was spot on. “when you tolerate intolerance, you’re not really being a liberal.”
this applies in so many ways to *liberals*.

Did you see those LIBERAL’S faces.

Liberals,when it comes to Islam, always pull out the “moral equivalence” card.

Women in Islam are treated terribly and Liberals will always, always try to defend Islam by making the “we in the West or America are worst”…prove it.

Did you see their faces…that is why the majority of Liberals are out of touch with reality.

Let’s face it…WOMEN ARE TREATED TERRIBLY IN THE MUSLIM WORLD.

DavidMaximus said:
Finally, a sudden expression of one of the conflicting sides of Liberal Cognitive Dissonance through Mediaite’s choice of imagery. The flippant yet shamed manner on Bill Maher’s face and an unexpected flash of a bewildered Tavis Smiley subsequently in the corner. Exposing that in fact, it may be true what Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, David Cameron (UK), Angela Merkel (DE), Dinesh D’Souza, Dennis Prager, Kurt Westergaard, and Pat Condell have been expostulating. A fantastically persistent Liberal bend over to Muslim sensitivity, if not manipulation upon their legislative, political, and media non-sense and propaganda. While deliberately mocking, defaming, and disparaging Christianity and it’s history under the dubious cover of “Free Speech”, “Separation of Church and State(?)” , “Universal Rights”.

Thank you, Mediaite.

yup, A fantastically persistent Liberal bend over to Muslim sensitivity

http://echodepiction.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/bush-and-king-abdullah.jpg

valkyrie101 said:
In the U.S., up to about 80 years ago, woman were denied the right to vote, were paid extremely low wages, were often physically beaten (without legal recourse), could not own property, could not obtain a divorce, could not obtain an abortion, and otherwise were treated like second class (non-voting) citizens. And the primary justification for such treatment, was the Bible and Christian religious tradition. Progressive thought changed all of that, and now woman have substantially the same rights as men. Likewise, progressive thought in the middle east and in other Islamic countries will eventually accord woman fair treatment.

uh…women in many Muslim countries ARE DENIED education. In some countries they are denied driving privileges, in some countries they told they have to cover up. They have not progressed…they have gone BACKWARDS. In Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon and other Islamic countries they have gone backwards. twenty five years ago Muslim women could wear mini-skirts, show their hair, go to co-ed classes, and have technical jobs…today, in many countries they have gone BACKWARDS not forward.

…and once again a Liberal loses it (guy in the audience) and starts blaming the U.S….typical.

Smily was correct as far as Conservative Women are concerned.

We have watch the left do everything they could to destroy Sarah Palin and a host of conservatives.

There was NOTHING off limits to them.

Personally, I believe the people like Maher, and the majority of current and former on-airs at MessNBC and CNN have a special place in Hell waiting for their arrival.

Did you hear the CNBC reporter?

When Maher was simply explaining the truth…she said he was talking like a “Republican”.

Actually for a change…he was…HE WAS MAKING SENSE.

lol

Latin2 said:
…and once again a Liberal loses it (guy in the audience) and starts blaming the U.S….typical.

how can you tell the guy in the audience was a liberal? silly

Latin2 said:
Did you see those LIBERAL’S faces. Liberals,when it comes to Islam, always pull out the “moral equivalence” card. Women in Islam are treated terribly and Liberals will always, always try to defend Islam by making the “we in the West or America are worst”…prove it. Did you see their faces…that is why the majority of Liberals are out of touch with reality. Let’s face it…WOMEN ARE TREATED TERRIBLY IN THE MUSLIM WORLD.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

BatBoy said:
Smily was correct as far as Conservative Women are concerned.

We have watch the left do everything they could to destroy Sarah Palin and a host of conservatives.

There was NOTHING off limits to them.

Personally, I believe the people like Maher, and the majority of current and former on-airs at MessNBC and CNN have a special place in Hell waiting for their arrival.

Hell is going to be a crowded place when Rush, Hannity, Beck, the Fox Friends, Dick Morris to name a few are already there waiting

bigbrainbrad said:
how can you tell the guy in the audience was a liberal? silly

LOL…wait…LOL…that was a good one.

Just listen to what he said…that is a Liberal, alright, also most Conservatives would not go see Bill Maher.

…that is the WORSE it is.

Its not moral equivalency, its viewing culture as a growing thing. It took America 80 years, with the Christian right kicking and screaming, to move woman from being, essentially, chattel, to their current stature as (almost) equal partners. Spousal abuse was almost never prosecuted during that entire time, and at all times before, in the U.S., and virtually everywhere else around the world. Islam is about three generations behind us.

valkyrie101 said:
Its not moral equivalency, its viewing culture as a growing thing. It took America 80 years, with the Christian right kicking and screaming, to move woman from being, essentially, chattel, to their current stature as (almost) equal partners. Spousal abuse was almost never prosecuted during that entire time, and at all times before, in the U.S., and virtually everywhere else around the world. Islam is about three generations behind us.

uh…did you take a quick view of the videos I posted?

they are going BACKWARDS, not forward…and Liberals are still making a moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam. Once Islamists took over countries like Afghanistan, Lebanon and Iran…THEY WENT BACKWARDS…not forward.

Latin2 said:
LOL…wait…LOL…that was a good one.

Just listen to what he said…that is a Liberal, alright, also most Conservatives would not go see Bill Maher.

he could be a whig or a democrat/republican or part of the labour party or no party affiliaton at all. how do you know?

bigbrainbrad said:
he could be a whig or a democrat/republican or part of the labour party or no party affiliaton at all. how do you know?

lol…listen again…what he is saying is TYPICAL Leftist Anti-American speak…he is a Liberal.

Latin2 said:
uh…did you take a quick view of the videos I posted? they are going BACKWARDS, not forward…and Liberals are still making a moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam. Once Islamists took over countries like Afghanistan, Lebanon and Iran…THEY WENT BACKWARDS…not forward.

And what did the west do with two world wars, etc.? Communism? All out of the Christian west. Hundreds of millions of dead people. Yet here we are today saying, what, Islam is evil? Islam is just immature, like we were.

OxyCon said:
Lol, didn’t CosmosDan and I have a similar discussion last night?

No we sure didn’t. You assumed I was comparing Islamic culture to American culture when in fact I never was.

The Logan case is about sexual assault. It’s not about whether Muslim women get to drive, work, or go to school.

I completely support equality and agree with Bill that as Islamic nations embrace a more democratic form of government they will have to face the issue of women’s rights. However, the Logan case of sexual assault on a western woman, is only tangentially connected to the broader issue of woman’s rights in Islamic nations.

My point was taking the Logan case of sexual assault and making it about Islam is like taking a case of sexual assault over here and making it about how Americans treat woman. One is not necessarily connected to the other. Interestingly enough, statistics indicate the USA has a higher rate of rapes per capita than many Muslim nations, but that is speaking to a single thing, not women’s rights in a broader sense.

valkyrie101 said:
And what did the west do with two world wars, etc.? Communism? All out of the Christian west. Hundreds of millions of dead people. Yet here we are today saying, what, Islam is evil? Islam is just immature, like we were.

uh….you do know that atheists under Communism killed more people in the last hundred years than another other group…more than Christians, Muslims and Hindus.

Pol Pot, Joe Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Tse Tung, the ruling North Koreans, the Shining Path … ALL ATHEISTS killed more people in the last 100 than ALL other religions combined.

Atheist China has estimates of around 20 to almost 70 million.
Atheist Russia 20 to 30 or more million.
Atheist Pol Pot 2 million
Nazi Germany only 12 to 15 million.

In the last 100 years.

..It’s Not a big revelation to acknowledge that muslims treat their women badly.

Mr. Smiley was right…it should not be a comparison of who’s worse.

Denial doesn’t make it any less true.

We don’t beat our women but we do deny them equal pay for the same job

Insisting, as liberals do, on not comparing but just saying they are equally bad, is comparing and excusing your own bad judgment. And that is why I am not a liberal any more. For it leads to the kind of misplaced moral indignation uttered in this segment, both from the audience and from the table.

Latin2 said:
uh….you do know that atheists under Communism killed more people in the last hundred years than another other group…more than Christians, Muslims and Hindus. Pol Pot, Joe Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Tse Tung, the ruling North Koreans, the Shining Path … ALL ATHEISTS killed more people in the last 100 than ALL other religions combined.

Russia was a Christian nation, Germany a Christian nation, Serbia a Christian nation, etc., long before they became tyrannical, and now, after. No way the Christian west disavows the two world wars, the mustard gas, the gas chambers, and Josef Stalin, by claiming it all had nothing to do with Christianity. The Islamics may seem barbaric, but they still tend to kill less people per capita than the Christian west.

Latin2 said:
Atheist China has estimates of around 20 to almost 70 million.Atheist Russia 20 to 30 or more million.Atheist Pol Pot 2 millionNazi Germany only 12 to 15 million. In the last 100 years.

I am specifically talking about the so called “Christian” west. Communism came out of that, correct? I mean, Marx hung out in England and a few other Christian nations. He attended schools dedicated to Christ. And he was particularly incensed with the abuses related to the industrial revolution, a western invention.

valkyrie101 said:
Russia was a Christian nation, Germany a Christian nation, Serbia a Christian nation, etc., long before they became tyrannical, and now, after. No way the Christian west disavows the two world wars, the mustard gas, the gas chambers, and Josef Stalin, by claiming it all had nothing to do with Christianity. The Islamics may seem barbaric, but they still tend to kill less people per capita than the Christian west.

lol…The Soviet Union a “Christian” country…LOL more craziness from Liberals. You are thinking like a TYPICAL western that you blame others of. You are “Eurocentric” You forget China, Cambodia, Peru, and North Korea.

More people did under ATHEIST Communism in the last 100 years that Communism existed in full strength than all the religions combined.

Joe Stalin was an ATHEIST. Mao was atheist, Lenin was an atheist, Sung Jung Il was an atheist, Pol Pot was an atheist, the Shining Path was atheist, Che was an atheist, Ho Chi Minh was an atheist…even Hitler hated religion.

Latin2 said:
lol…The Soviet Union a “Christian” country

Before the revolution, for hundreds of years.

valkyrie101 said:
I am specifically talking about the so called “Christian” west. Communism came out of that, correct? I mean, Marx hung out in England and a few other Christian nations. He attended schools dedicated to Christ. And he was particularly incensed with the abuses related to the industrial revolution, a western invention.

uh.. Lenin, Marx and Trotsky WERE JEWISH by birth.

Latin2 said:
Joe Stalin was an ATHEIST. Mao was atheist, Lenin was an atheist, Sung Jung Il was an atheist, Pol Pot was an atheist, the Shining Path was atheist, Che was an atheist, Ho Chi Minh was an atheist…even Hitler hated religion.

Again, I am speaking about the origin of communism and the fact that it originated in the west, not the predominately Islamic middle east. Am I right on that?

Many of the leaders of the Soviet Union were NOT Christians at birth but were Jewish, who later became atheists;

Valdimir Lenin, supreme dictator.
Leon Bronstein -Trotsky;supreme commander of the Soviet Red Army.
Grigory Apfelbaum-Zinoviev: executive, Soviet Secret Police.
Solomon Lozovsky: deputy Soviet foreign minister.
Maxim Wallach -Litvinov: Soviet foreign minister.
Jacob Sverdlov: first president of the Soviet Union.

Latin2 said:
uh.. Lenin, Marx and Trotsky WERE JEWISH by birth.

All of them lived in Christian nations, were trained at Christian schools, and otherwise, like Hitler, were a function of Christianity’s failure, to wit: hundreds of years of documented Church abuses. Communism as an ideology has no power without the element of resentment. No way Christianity, and the west, disavows at least partial responsibility for that resentment.

valkyrie101 said:
All of them lived in Christian nations, were trained at Christian schools, and otherwise, like Hitler, were a function of Christianity’s failure, to wit: hundreds of years of documented Church abuses. Communism as an ideology has no power without the element of resentment. No way Christianity, and the west, disavows at least partial responsibility for that resentment.

lol…still Eurocentric….you forget Mao, Sung Jung Il, Pol Pot and others…plus the leaders of the atheist Soviet Union were JEWISH, not Christians

lol…wow talk about dense.

Also The SOVIET UNION is also a EASTERN COUNTRY, and also part of the Muslim world…there are more Muslims in Russia than in most Muslim countries in the Gulf States.

Latin2 said:
Many of the leaders of the Soviet Union were NOT Christians at birth but were Jewish, who later became atheists; Valdimir Lenin, supreme dictator.Leon Bronstein -Trotsky;supreme commander of the Soviet Red Army.Grigory Apfelbaum-Zinoviev: executive, Soviet Secret Police.Solomon Lozovsky: deputy Soviet foreign minister.Maxim Wallach -Litvinov: Soviet foreign minister.Jacob Sverdlov: first president of the Soviet Union.

Oh, so it was the Jews fault? LOL.

Latin2 said:
Also The SOVIET UNION is also a EASTERN COUNTRY, and also part of the Muslim world…there are more Muslims in Russia than in most Muslim countries in the Gulf States.

There is no country known as the Soviet Union.

Maher called it a “false equivalency,”
—————————————————
Progressives’ entire dysfunctional philosophy depends on Group Indoctrination Identity and False Equivalency!
- the two things addressed here.
It was just surprising that Mahr called him on it.

The Left has been making the Blatant False Equivalency canard about Muslim terror & Christian terror for years!
That argument is ludicrous on it’s face, but it confirms the delusion compliant-minded people need to justify their image of self-righteousness.
It’s pathetic.

As for your assertion that they were from “the West” here is where Valdimir Lenin was born and went to school;

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=Ulyanovsk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Ulyanovsk,+Province+of+Ulyanovsk,+Russia&gl=us&ei=qNNfTeuzCoKosAPJ7qjSCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ8gEwAA

bigbrainbrad said:
Rush, Hannity, Beck, the Fox Friends, Dick Morris

Morris maybe….I’ll give you that one.

Rush, Hannity and Beck – They do not treat women badly, lit the lefties do.
Tingles, Big Ed and O’Donnell – now there is a group that hates women…I suppose you lefty women who like these guys just like the bad boys of TV. Come over to our side and see what it is like to be treated like a lady.

This guy knows the words…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGs5Js7FVHo

Latin2 said:
Let’s face it…WOMEN ARE TREATED TERRIBLY IN THE MUSLIM WORLD.

…and were previously treated very badly by the Christian world.

The biggest difference between “injustices” in the US and in Arab countries is that the victims under our system of government (and other Western govts) have a voice and the means to end the injustice. Not so much (or at all) for the 2nd class citizens in the Arab world. THAT is what makes Western-style government superior.

With that said, our government has drifted so far from the fundamental principles of our founding that even the government (charged with guaranteeing our God-given right to liberty) has stood in the way of righting wrongs. And even participating/causing injustices. For example: Pigford.

People cause injustice – always have and always will. Our system of government was supposed to give us the means by which to resolve them.

As someone once said: Democracy is two wolves and lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. (sometimes attributed to Ben Franklin but that is in question)

We are not a pure democracy. We are a representative republic that guarantees the lamb a voice even when surrounded by wolves.

valkyrie101 said:
Oh, so it was the Jews fault? LOL.

lol…what? (shakes head because of your stupidity)

You were the one who said that it was “Christians” who created Communism and that Christianity influenced Communism…when Lenin, Marx and Trotsky were born Jewish and became atheists later in life. How is Communism Jewish people’s fault? You are saying it is Christianity’s fault, when the people who started the Communist revolution were not even Christians at birth. So there goes your argument that Communism was from Christianity. I showed that early leaders of the ATHEIST Soviet Union were not even born Christians, proving your anti-Christian, anti-West theory INCORRECT.

THEY BECAME ATHEISTS…I know this is hard for you to understand, but atheists don’t have a religion….and atheists killed more people than any religious group in the last 100 years….and that is fact.

How is Communism Jewish people’s fault? They became ATHEISTS…which means they DID NOT BELIEVE IN RELIGION.

Maher’s conversion to Reason may simply be a charade so that he’s not the last Liberal talk host without a show – and not working for FOX!
heh-heh

Latin2 said:
How is Communism Jewish people’s fault? They became ATHEISTS…which means they DID NOT BELIEVE IN RELIGION.

Don’t bother arguing w/ Valkyrie101, she is one of these maleducated libs who just regurgitates what her college professors tell her. She isn’t capable of independent thought. I used to argue w/ someone like her on another board (wouldn’t be surprised if it were the same person) and logic is wasted on her.

Not to mention the fact that Communism technically predated Marx and was originally anti-Monarchy and not anti-Christian. Marx codified left wing ideals, he didn’t create them.

As for Maher, at least he is consistent about his anti-religion stance. He hates all religions equally.

Just 2 minutes into the clip you hear Tavis Smiley (!?!?!?!) bloviate about women’s issues in America?
Mr. Smiley, please look at the devastating consequences of single-mothers and absent fathers in America, as an example.
Leftist ideology knows no shame or has no bounds………

AninTx said:
The biggest difference between “injustices” in the US and in Arab countries is that the victims under our system of government (and other Western govts) have a voice and the means to end the injustice. Not so much (or at all) for the 2nd class citizens in the Arab world. THAT is what makes Western-style government superior. With that said, our government has drifted so far from the fundamental principles of our founding that even the government (charged with guaranteeing our God-given right to liberty) has stood in the way of righting wrongs. And even participating/causing injustices. For example: Pigford. People cause injustice – always have and always will. Our system of government was supposed to give us the means by which to resolve them. As someone once said: Democracy is two wolves and lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. (sometimes attributed to Ben Franklin but that is in question) We are not a pure democracy. We are a representative republic that guarantees the lamb a voice even when surrounded by wolves.

Great post!

How surreal that must have been for poor Bill. To argue with himself. Of course as a liberal Bill is too stupid to see his own arguments used against him. By the way, Smiley proves how much liberals hate this country. Their first reaction is to always find something horrible about America to compare with any other culture.

So valk, you’d argue that since Ted Bundy hated women, the women must have been at least partially responsible.

Latin2 said:
lol…what? (shakes head because of your stupidity) You were the one who said that it was “Christians” who created Communism and that Christianity influenced Communism…when Lenin, Marx and Trotsky were born Jewish and became atheists later in life. How is Communism Jewish people’s fault? You are saying it is Christianity’s fault, when the people who started the Communist revolution were not even Christians at birth. So there goes your argument that Communism was from Christianity. I showed that early leaders of the ATHEIST Soviet Union were not even born Christians, proving your anti-Christian, anti-West theory INCORRECT. THEY BECAME ATHEISTS…I know this is hard for you to understand, but atheists don’t have a religion….and atheists killed more people than any religious group in the last 100 years….and that is fact.

The west, not the middle east, white people, not brown people, created communism, and fascism. Am I correct on that? So before you condemn the middle eastern Islamic people, before you write Islam off as evil, consider that western white people from traditional Christian countries killed over 100 million people, including a fair number of Islamics, in just the 20th century.

I see, valk. So since white people have done some bad things, we should never say that non-white people are also capable of doing bad things.

AninTx said:
The biggest difference between “injustices” in the US and in Arab countries is that the victims under our system of government (and other Western govts) have a voice and the means to end the injustice. Not so much (or at all) for the 2nd class citizens in the Arab world. THAT is what makes Western-style government superior.

With that said, our government has drifted so far from the fundamental principles of our founding that even the government (charged with guaranteeing our God-given right to liberty) has stood in the way of righting wrongs. And even participating/causing injustices. For example: Pigford.

People cause injustice – always have and always will. Our system of government was supposed to give us the means by which to resolve them.

As someone once said: Democracy is two wolves and lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. (sometimes attributed to Ben Franklin but that is in question)

We are not a pure democracy. We are a representative republic that guarantees the lamb a voice even when surrounded by wolves.

Great explanation.

The problem is that, as part of being Modern Liberals/Progressives, they are multiculturalists. By definition, they think that all cultures are “equal”. So when we obviously observer differences and point out that one culture is better than another, they go berserk.

What they have to do is compensate. They have to try to elevate the defective culture and tear down the good culture. This is why they have to tear down Christianity and valkyrie101 has to spend so much effort trying to get people to think that Christianity “isn’t as good as I thought.”

(They do the same thing with the Israelis and the Palestinians.)

This behavior is textbook Modern Liberal. I can’t say it enough: everyone should watch and absorb Evan Sayet’s “How Modern Liberals Think” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c .

writer said:
So valk, you’d argue that since Ted Bundy hated women, the women must have been at least partially responsible.

No. But that is different than saying that hundreds of years of Church abuse caused many people to become resentful toward the church. And when people are resentful they are more likely to subscribe to philosophies that justify that resentment.

Travis, you are so incredible ignorant.

How many women get stoned in the US with government approval? How many women must hide their faces due to the law of the land? How many women are in Govt. posts in Arab countries? How many men can lawfully kill their wives in the US? How many cities in the US have public be-headings of women ?

Yes, Travis, in your world, if I lose control of my car on an ice covered road and slam into another car, killing the driver that is the same as if I had walked into a store and shot the owner dead.

MG, you are a total lib ignoramus of the 1st. order.

Alz said:
The problem is that, as part of being Modern Liberals/Progressives, they are multiculturalists. By definition, they think that all cultures are “equal”. So when we obviously observer differences and point out that one culture is better than another, they go berserk.

So people, but not cultures are all created equal by God?

valk, why can’t you just accept it when someone criticizes Muslim treatment of women and let it go at that? Why do we always have to get a ‘yeah, but…’ and then get a history of Christianity? If you can criticize the bad aspects of Christianity without the ‘yeah, but…’, why are you unable to do it with Islam?

writer said:
Why do we always have to get a ‘yeah, but…’ and then get a history of Christianity?

You mean Maher wasn’t talking about Christianity and valk changed the subject to that?

Shocking- simply shocking.

Hey when ya can’t defend something, change the subject.

@sara. I’m with you. This was a actually a really go episode. What I liked about it was that, while for the most part you had Bill and his panelists who in a broad sense agree on the same things, there were many things that they didn’t agree on, were not afraid of saying it and didn’t act like a bunch of sheep nodding their heads and saying “yes yes yes..I agree…correct yes yes”. They challenged each other on opposing ideas.

I rarely see that any more on TV.

writer said:
valk, why can’t you just accept it when someone criticizes Muslim treatment of women and let it go at that? Why do we always have to get a ‘yeah, but…’ and then get a history of Christianity? If you can criticize the bad aspects of Christianity without the ‘yeah, but…’, why are you unable to do it with Islam?

Because in order to have any perspective on the evolution of the Islamic culture it is necessary to consider the evolution of the Western culture. Of course, like the noted liberal Maher, I condemn the way woman are treated in Islamic culture today, as I would condemn the way woman were treated in western culture 100 years ago. Islam is not evil, it is immature. That is my point.

So wearing burqas in hundred degree heat, honor killings, things like that are merely ‘immature’. By the way, Charles Manson may be immature, but my neighbor doesn’t recycle.

notsofast said:
Travis, you are so incredible ignorant. How many women get stoned in the US with government approval? How many women must hide their faces due to the law of the land? How many women are in Govt. posts in Arab countries? How many men can lawfully kill their wives in the US? How many cities in the US have public be-headings of women ? Yes, Travis, in your world, if I lose control of my car on an ice covered road and slam into another car, killing the driver that is the same as if I had walked into a store and shot the owner dead. MG, you are a total lib ignoramus of the 1st. order.

But if they were white Christians doing it, I’ll bet people of Smiley’s ilk would be calling for the gallows!

Look how people of Smiley’s ilk – Black Liberal Democrats – pillory and demean the character of any black American daring to think differently than Smiley and his ilk tell them to think.

For years, a fearful and complicit Media advocated, through their reporting, on behalf of these bigots.

The difference today is a new Media, and EXPOSURE of the LIE!

writer said:
So wearing burqas in hundred degree heat, honor killings, things like that are merely ‘immature’. By the way, Charles Manson may be immature, but my neighbor doesn’t recycle.

Instead of immature, would you prefer, “uncivilized”? Until fairly recent times, western woman were routinely beaten by their drunk husbands, not permitted to vote, not permitted to get a divorce, not permitted to inherit land, not permitted attend school, etc. What do you call that? Well, since we as a culture have evolved, and woman are not treated the same way now, I call that growth, and the prior way, immaturity.

Helix said:
Did someone replace Bill Maher with Bill O’Reilly when I wasn’t looking? This isn’t the Bill Maher I know…..

No. Bill Maher, to his credit, is a consistent atheist. He speaks out equally against any religion. Unlike those atheists who only go after christaianity and give muslims a pass. True atheists can appreciate this.

So two wrongs make a right. It’s okay to point out misdeeds by Christians, but pointing out misdeeds by Muslims must be downplayed by bringing up Christianity. Any criticism of Islam cannot be allowed to stand alone.

This is amazing ! This is clearly an argument between two people who pretty much have liberal views about the degree of progress, between the U.S. and Arab countries, when it comes to women’s rights. I agree with Bill Maher that even though the U.S. is not yet ‘there’ completely in achieving women’s rights, the U.S. is a lot further down the road than Arab countries in general. My question is: what do you ‘so-called’ Conservatives have to do with this argument ? The last time I checked, which was today, the Conservative movement was never about equal rights for anyone. Equal rights for everyone has not been part of your agenda for decades – you guys jumped off that wagon in the sixties in the heat of these battles. So please guys, ‘butt-out’ of this conversation. If it is not white, Christian, male and heterosexual then you have a problem with it. You people rear your ugly heads everywhere these days claiming to care about issues that you clearly disagree with. The U.S. is a better country today in terms of civil and equal rights for its citizens in spite of your continued opposition to it. Bye guys, be gone !!! Please don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

NORBIT Jr. said:
Maher’s conversion to Reason may simply be a charade so that he’s not the last Liberal talk host without a show – and not working for FOX!
heh-heh

Since he’s been pretty consistent on his subject , it’s not a conversion at all.

valkyrie101 said:
Instead of immature, would you prefer, “uncivilized”? Until fairly recent times, western woman were routinely beaten by their drunk husbands, not permitted to vote, not permitted to get a divorce, not permitted to inherit land, not permitted attend school, etc. What do you call that? Well, since we as a culture have evolved, and woman are not treated the same way now, I call that growth, and the prior way, immaturity.

Well said.

CosmosDan said:
Since he’s been pretty consistent on his subject , it’s not a conversion at all.

I was speaking in general, not to this particular subject.
I’ve seen Maher, on too many occassions, use his sardonic wit to create and foster narratives, not satirize them, so this was somewhat of an anomoly to me.

Powerslave said:
Well said.

Which begs the question: What do you consider “fairly recent times?”

You left out Bertha Butt and the Trogldytes!

valkyrie101 said:
Instead of immature, would you prefer, “uncivilized”? Until fairly recent times, western woman were routinely beaten by their drunk husbands, not permitted to vote, not permitted to get a divorce, not permitted to inherit land, not permitted attend school, etc. What do you call that? Well, since we as a culture have evolved, and woman are not treated the same way now, I call that growth, and the prior way, immaturity.

Which begs the question: What do you consider “fairly recent times?”

You left out Bertha Butt and the Trogldytes!

(that’s better)

“When you tolerate intolerance, you’re really not being a liberal.”

Best line so far. You don’t have to defend a religion like Islam just because you don’t like christians.

writer said:
So two wrongs make a right. It’s okay to point out misdeeds by Christians, but pointing out misdeeds by Muslims must be downplayed by bringing up Christianity. Any criticism of Islam cannot be allowed to stand alone.

Yes, we all need help in being pointed to Islamic misdeeds. Heaven forbid we ignore Islamic misdeeds. Again, my point is that Islam is not evil, but immature. My evidence, the fact that we were also once immature. Do you watch Startrek?

valk, I get it. Things like honor killings aren’t evil. They’re immature.

NORBIT Jr. said:
Which begs the question: What do you consider “fairly recent times?” You left out Bertha Butt and the Trogldytes! (that’s better)

Depends on what part of the country you live in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WxMHMcFh-s&playnext=1&list=PL7006CF301B4F5BB5

Here’s a past from the past from Mr. Smiley. Notice how he falsely states how Christians are terrorists in USA everyday (Post office, schools). Even says that Columbine was perpetrated by Christians.
In his world, facts be damned
Tavis Smiley is a bald-faced liar

Powerslave said:
“When you tolerate intolerance, you’re really not being a liberal.” Best line so far. You don’t have to defend a religion like Islam just because you don’t like christians.

Sums it up right

All things aside, the glare that Tavis Smiley gives Maher at the end is priceless.

valkyrie101 said:
Yes, we all need help in being pointed to Islamic misdeeds. Heaven forbid we ignore Islamic misdeeds. Again, my point is that Islam is not evil, but immature. My evidence, the fact that we were also once immature. Do you watch Startrek?

Murderous barbarity is immature.

Our government starves and bombs and tortures Muslim women, which they don’t like either. Many women in Muslim countries don’t worry about driver’s licenses because they’re too poor to afford a car, because the US supports the puppet regime that exploits them. Onward, Christian soldiers.

Actually, most in the lunatic-left are misogynists – it’s a major part of their mental disorder. It’s certainly not confined to “thrill up my leg” matthews (who even left-wing comic Jon Steward called a “nut-job”). TAX CHEAT olbermann, and the reject from the Hair Club for Men letterman seem to be in competition to try to out-do each others vile, disgusting contempt for ALL women. Don’t forget that matthews and olbermann both attacked and vilified hillary, too.

writer said:
valk, I get it. Things like honor killings aren’t evil. They’re immature.

If you say so.

I bet Muslim men treated women better before the U.S. came along.

Powerslave said:
All things aside, the glare that Tavis Smiley gives Maher at the end is priceless.

Smiley and his ilk are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are worse than an atheist, so to speak, because they hide their true intentions by masking it with words like “I’m a Christian, but with that being said, I …………”
Whatever one thinks of Maher, he is a least is true to his convictions on this issue.

It doesn’t stop me for praying that God will open their eyes to the truth :)

Joe Schembrie said:
Our government starves and bombs and tortures Muslim women, which they don’t like either. Many women in Muslim countries don’t worry about driver’s licenses because they’re too poor to afford a car, because the US supports the puppet regime that exploits them. Onward, Christian soldiers.

Are you the heckler from the audience?

Again, you don’t have to defend muslims just because you hate christians.

I’m an atheist and I was in the military. Are you saying it’s O.K. for atheist soldiers to “starve and bomb and torture” muslim women?

ndanielson said:
Murderous barbarity is immature.

Yes, like our barbarian ancestors.

writer said:
I bet Muslim men treated women better before the U.S. came along.

Why do you hate all Muslims?

Powerslave said:
Are you the heckler from the audience? Again, you don’t have to defend muslims just because you hate christians. I’m an atheist and I was in the military. Are you saying it’s O.K. for atheist soldiers to “starve and bomb and torture” muslim women?

Good retort

Powerslave said:
Are you the heckler from the audience? Again, you don’t have to defend muslims just because you hate christians. I’m an atheist and I was in the military. Are you saying it’s O.K. for atheist soldiers to “starve and bomb and torture” muslim women?

Thank you for serving our country, sir!

I think anytime anyone criticizes any aspect of Islam, we should blame Christianity and/or the U.S. After all, the rules in the Koran weren’t written until the U.S. became a country.

valkyrie101 said:
Yes, like our barbarian ancestors.

So some coddling is in order? Or maybe a good dose of hope? Hope that they’ll change? Or maybe let them mature into some final peace loving culture all on their own?

The Koran was originally kind to women. But after 1776, they amended it. Until then, Muslim men treated women with the utmost respect.

writer said:
The Koran was originally kind to women. But after 1776, they amended it. Until then, Muslim men treated women with the utmost respect.

Don’t forget that Jefferson owned a Koran
He also had to deal with “the peaceful religion” during his presidency
“To the shores of Tripoli”

I’m sure Jefferson brought it on himself.

It’s amazing – I totally agree with Maher on this one.

ndanielson said:
So some coddling is in order? Or maybe a good dose of hope? Hope that they’ll change? Or maybe let them mature into some final peace loving culture all on their own?

The standard rule is no interference in the affairs of pre-warp cultures.

writer said:
I’m sure Jefferson brought it on himself.

And don’t forget that Sharia law is compatible with the Constitution.

valkyrie101 said:
The standard rule is no interference in the affairs of pre-warp cultures.

The only questions they need ask themselves are: Chinese nukes, or Russian? Pakistani, or N Korean?

writer said:
I think anytime anyone criticizes any aspect of Islam, we should blame Christianity and/or the U.S. After all, the rules in the Koran weren’t written until the U.S. became a country.

Hey, I love criticizing religion as much as the next guy, because I think they are often used destructively, but everyone is piled on Islam. That is chic, to rip Islam as evil, etc. But the notion that Islam itself is evil because a relative handful of Islamics choose to be terrorists, or because in some countries they maintain old rules of social justice, like dunking, public flogging, or killing adulterous wives, is wrong simply because then, given our own history, we will have to condemn Christianity itself as evil. Only men can be evil, and it is their choice to be so or not. Religions do not kill people, people kill people. Those who committ evil, I condemn, equally.

Tea Party Patriot ! For every one lunatic on the left there are ten of you on the right – Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, etc… the list goes on. As loony as the left can be, they have not started to take guns to their protests at least not yet ! Glen Beck has been linked as one of the inspirations for at least three shootings or attempted shootings just in the past year. Can someone name me a ‘liberal nutjob’ that has done the same in the same period of time or during Bush’s tenure ? O’Reilly in my judgement was an instigator in the Dr. Tiller murder with ‘Tiller the baby killer’ talk, can Tea Party Patriot name me a left-wing nutjob who inspired the killing of someone just the last two years?

As far as Olberman villifying Hilary, he was just an Obama supporter and was villifying Hilary’s ‘Republican / Lee Atwater ‘ tactics at thet time. In terms of Matthews, he said a couple of things that were definitely over the top but both of them are a far cry from the far-right lunatics: Hannity, Mark Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, O’Reilly,Ingraham, Boortz and the list goes on.

The right-wing lunatics have no peers but I blame Corporate America for paying these bastards millions of dollars to spew their venom under the guise of entertainment.

But whenever anyone criticizes some aspect of Islam, we should always rush in to criticize something about Christianity, just to make sure it stays even.

ndanielson said:
The only questions they need ask themselves are: Chinese nukes, or Russian? Pakistani, or N Korean?

No interference is of course tempered by containment, our standard foreign policy since world war 2. That is why we are in Afganistan.

valk, next time Maher criticizes Christianity, we’ll be expecting you to rush in and start pointing out bad things about Islam.

jcowan said:
Tea Party Patriot ! For every one lunatic on the left there are ten of you on the right – Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, etc… the list goes on. As loony as the left can be, they have not started to take guns to their protests at least not yet ! Glen Beck has been linked as one of the inspirations for at least three shootings or attempted shootings just in the past year. Can someone name me a ‘liberal nutjob’ that has done the same in the same period of time or during Bush’s tenure ? O’Reilly in my judgement was an instigator in the Dr. Tiller murder with ‘Tiller the baby killer’ talk, can Tea Party Patriot name me a left-wing nutjob who inspired the killing of someone just the last two years?

As far as Olberman villifying Hilary, he was just an Obama supporter and was villifying Hilary’s ‘Republican / Lee Atwater ‘ tactics at thet time. In terms of Matthews, he said a couple of things that were definitely over the top but both of them are a far cry from the far-right lunatics: Hannity, Mark Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, O’Reilly,Ingraham, Boortz and the list goes on.

The right-wing lunatics have no peers but I blame Corporate America for paying these bastards millions of dollars to spew their venom under the guise of entertainment.

They not only get paid millions of dollars, dummy, but the actually EARN millions of dollars for these Corporate Americans. Wow, what a concept, huh?

DavidMaximus said:
Finally, a sudden expression of one of the conflicting sides of Liberal Cognitive Dissonance through Mediaite’s choice of imagery. The flippant yet shamed manner on Bill Maher’s face and an unexpected flash of a bewildered Tavis Smiley subsequently in the corner.

I thought it was a great still. Kevin Smith leaning-in is what makes it golden.

ChickaBOOMer: Pan Arab
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2011/02/pan-arab.html

valkyrie101 said:
No interference is of course tempered by containment, our standard foreign policy since world war 2. That is why we are in Afganistan.

And here I thought we were in Afghanistan to put down 6th century barbarians bent on subjugating women and children in the name of some demented religion created by some pedophile prophet, screaming death to infidels!

valkyrie101 said:
Hey, I love criticizing religion as much as the next guy, because I think they are often used destructively, but everyone is piled on Islam. That is chic, to rip Islam as evil, etc. But the notion that Islam itself is evil because a relative handful of Islamics choose to be terrorists, or because in some countries they maintain old rules of social justice, like dunking, public flogging, or killing adulterous wives, is wrong simply because then, given our own history, we will have to condemn Christianity itself as evil. Only men can be evil, and it is their choice to be so or not. Religions do not kill people, people kill people. Those who committ evil, I condemn, equally.

It’s the SHARIA LAW, dummy.

writer said:
valk, next time Maher criticizes Christianity, we’ll be expecting you to rush in and start pointing out bad things about Islam.

So you expect to see pigs fly soon, too?

valk has promised to keep things even. Don’t let us down.

valkyrie101 said:
Islam is not evil, it is immature

So cool how you defend izlam, yet have what borders on mental problems when it comes to Mormons.

Joe Schembrie said:
Our government starves and bombs and tortures Muslim women, which they don’t like either. Many women in Muslim countries don’t worry about driver’s licenses because they’re too poor to afford a car,

Really? Prove it, son. And if Muslim women were millionaires, they STILL could not drive cars in their native land.

You are as benighted as Tavis.

Tavis: ” I don’t agree that degree always matters.” It isn’t about degree Tavis? Someone gets a 100 on a test and another gets a 40- they are equal because it is about degree? Gold is $1400 an oz. and water less than 1cent an oz. but they are equal because we are only talking about the degree of value?

Shoplifting and 1.st degree murder are the same because we are only talking about degree of crime?

In Egypt, there is no freedom of the press, state run TV and you can be picket up by the secret police for speaking out against the govt. In America, you can’t say the “F” or “N” word on broadcast TV; ergo, America is just like Egypt because we are only talking about degree of freedom of the press?.

No wonder libs compare everyone to Hitler; it’s only an amount of degree.

writer said:
valk, next time Maher criticizes Christianity, we’ll be expecting you to rush in and start pointing out bad things about Islam.

That depends on how unobjective that criticism is.

valkyrie101 said:
That depends on how unobjective that criticism is.

Naw! I think it will depend on how hypocritical you feel you want to be that day, son.

Maher be unobjective? Surely you jest.

Mr.Papshmer said:
So cool how you defend izlam, yet have what borders on mental problems when it comes to Mormons.

Because I love Mormons, I criticise them. I’m fond of Moonies too. My view is that by defending Islam, I also defend all other religions.

writer said:
Maher be unobjective? Surely you jest.

Well I know that doesn’t happen often, but if he is too hard on Christians, I will jump right in to defend them.

That’s the spirit!

valkyrie101 said:
Because I love Mormons, I criticise them. I’m fond of Moonies too. My view is that by defending Islam, I also defend all other religions.

Valk, I know we love each other, but that’s horseshit.

By the way, I actually do respect your opinion, even though you’re wrong about 100% of the time. You might have noticed that you’re one of the few liberals that I don’t just open a can of insult on. There’s nothing wrong with people who think, I just despise puppets.

DUMB ASS ‘ndanielson’ , Drug dealing can do the same thing (if not better) for Corporate Americans. Why don’t we legalize drugs? – Wow, what a concept, huh? THAT’S EVEN A BETTER BUSSINESS MODEL MORON!!! Legalizing Prostitution is also another idea using your ‘twisted’ concept, why not spend your time trying to make it legal? These ‘concepts’ earn millions of dollars for Corporate Americans. I even have one more for you bastard ‘ndanielson’, illegal immigration, this SHIT would earn a lot more money for Corporate Americans . But I bet ‘twisted minds’ like you are too filled with and blinded by hate and venom to see the profit for Corporate Americans there, right? Wow, what a concept, huh, DUMBASS?

Who gave you a computer, let alone internet privileges at the ‘loony assylum’ you reside? ndanielson, THIS CONVERSATION IS FOR SANE ADULTS WHO ARE NOT BRAIN-DAMAGED. BYE- BYE INBRED!!!!

valkyrie101 said:
Because I love Mormons, I criticise them. I’m fond of Moonies too. My view is that by defending Islam, I also defend all other religions.

Yes criticizing one religion to elevate another, is a liberal standard. Like blaming the poor on the greedy corporations.

These people are all insane. And , this is shitty TV.

jcowan said:
DUMB ASS ‘ndanielson’ , Drug dealing can do the same thing (if not better) for Corporate Americans. Why don’t we legalize drugs? – Wow, what a concept, huh? THAT’S EVEN A BETTER BUSSINESS MODEL MORON!!! Legalizing Prostitution is also another idea using your ‘twisted’ concept, why not spend your time trying to make it legal? These ‘concepts’ earn millions of dollars for Corporate Americans. I even have one more for you bastard ‘ndanielson’, illegal immigration, this SHIT would earn a lot more money for Corporate Americans . But I bet ‘twisted minds’ like you are too filled with and blinded by hate and venom to see the profit for Corporate Americans there, right? Wow, what a concept, huh, DUMBASS?

Who gave you a computer, let alone internet privileges at the ‘loony assylum’ you reside? ndanielson, THIS CONVERSATION IS FOR SANE ADULTS WHO ARE NOT BRAIN-DAMAGED. BYE- BYE INBRED!!!!

Did someone tinkle in your coco-puffs this morning, sweetpea? Don’t take things so personally. I try my best to show how ignorant liberals are equally, and did not pick on you any more than any one else. I will take your feelings under consideration from here on out, as you have proven to be a little more fun to pick on than some others.

Mr.Papshmer said:
Valk, I know we love each other, but that’s horseshit. By the way, I actually do respect your opinion, even though you’re wrong about 100% of the time. You might have noticed that you’re one of the few liberals that I don’t just open a can of insult on. There’s nothing wrong with people who think, I just despise puppets.

Wow, I’m touched, pap. :-)

CosmosDan said:
No we sure didn’t. You assumed I was comparing Islamic culture to American culture when in fact I never was.

My point was taking the Logan case of sexual assault and making it about Islam is like taking a case of sexual assault over here and making it about how Americans treat woman. One is not necessarily connected to the other. Interestingly enough, statistics indicate the USA has a higher rate of rapes per capita than many Muslim nations, but that is speaking to a single thing, not women’s rights in a broader sense.

Always the contrarian, lol.
And again, your use of statistics to denigrate America is highly flawed because you fail to take into consideration the FACT that Muslim women do not report rapes because the penalty under sharia for women who get raped is death by stoning.

For some reason in your attempt to use a “false equivalency,” argument by comparing the sexual mistreatment of women in Islamic culture with that of Western civilization, you don’t seem to be able to grasp the fact that mistreatment of women in Islam is institutional, whereas in western society sexual predators are outside the norm for the culture.

ndanielson said:
Yes criticizing one religion to elevate another, is a liberal standard. Like blaming the poor on the greedy corporations.

I elevate no religion in favor of another. And the only thing I think is more stupid than being an intolerant religious person, is being an intolerant atheist.

DUMB -ASS ‘ndanielson’ , you might think it’s is a game in which you and your ‘brain damaged ‘ friends call people dummies, liberals and the usual ‘preprogrammed crap’ that without providing any coherent counter- argument. I made a point that there are many things that ‘idiots’ like you would deem bad for America that would ‘earn’ Corporate America millions of dollars and asked whether you would support them just because they earn Corporate America a lot money. Instead of answering my question, you resort to stupid, juvenile ‘coco-puffs’ nonsense. Obvoiusly,you do not have a good answer at all, which is understandable. The larger point is that just because something makes money for Corporate America does not make it right regardless of which side of the political aisle you sitting in. ONLY BRAIN DAMAGED MORONS WOULD DISAGREE AND RESORT TO STUPIDNESS.

valkyrie101 said:
I elevate no religion in favor of another. And the only thing I think is more stupid than being an intolerant religious person, is being an intolerant atheist.

I can go back and read your posts and find NOTHING about you speaking about the greatness of Islam, its founding, it’s effect on the people that practice it, its compassion and outpouring of help and cooperation in any natural disaster, its loving prophet, or its wonderful tenets anywhere! Just how bad any other religions are by comparison. God are liberals that ignorant, always? Help us out here, valkryie.

As for the greedy corporations: yes I blame them for the plight of the poor. Why not, they have all the money.

jcowan said:
DUMB -ASS ‘ndanielson’ , you might think it’s is a game in which you and your ‘brain damaged ‘ friends call people dummies, liberals and the usual ‘preprogrammed crap’ that without providing any coherent counter- argument. I made a point that there are many things that ‘idiots’ like you would deem bad for America that would ‘earn’ Corporate America millions of dollars and asked whether you would support them just because they earn Corporate America a lot money. Instead of answering my question, you resort to stupid, juvenile ‘coco-puffs’ nonsense. Obvoiusly,you do not have a good answer at all, which is understandable. The larger point is that just because something makes money for Corporate America does not make it right regardless of which side of the political aisle you sitting in. ONLY BRAIN DAMAGED MORONS WOULD DISAGREE AND RESORT TO STUPIDNESS.

Well, dummy, that is where you and I disagree. I think a strong corporate America is a good thing. Dummy. And if Beck and Co. make corporate America stronger, they must be doing something right. And if they get little dummies like you with your panties in a bunch, they must be doing something REALLY right. And it is kind of a game.

valkyrie101 said:
As for the greedy corporations: yes I blame them for the plight of the poor. Why not, they have all the money.

Because an economy is not a zero-sum activity, as much as your dummy, 0bama, may think it is, and try to make it become. Once wealth is gone, it is gone.

ndanielson said:
I can go back and read your posts and find NOTHING about you speaking about the greatness of Islam, its founding, it’s effect on the people that practice it, its compassion and outpouring of help and cooperation in any natural disaster, its loving prophet, or its wonderful tenets anywhere! Just how bad any other religions are by comparison. God are liberals that ignorant, always? Help us out here, valkryie.

Being a religious man myself, I shy away from passing judgments on any religion, lest God strike me down.

valkyrie101 said:
As for the greedy corporations: yes I blame them for the plight of the poor. Why not, they have all the money.

Well, how are those union members retiring on 100K pensions, son?

valkyrie101 said:
Being a religious man myself, I shy away from passing judgments on any religion, lest God strike me down.

Lest Allah slit your throat.

notsofast said:
Well, how are those union members retiring on 100K pensions, son?

And after 20 years, and with health care for life. Paid for by the middle class.

ndanielson said:
Because an economy is not a zero-sum activity, as much as your dummy, 0bama, may think it is, and try to make it become. Once wealth is gone, it is gone.

The fact is, wealth is accumulating in the hands of just a relatively few people, while 40% of the population is in or nearly in the poor house. The common man asks only for a job in a reasonable and safe work environment earning enough to pay his bills. But there are literally not enough jobs. Any fool knows that when your business is losing money that you try to limit your expenses as best you can, but at some point, you better believe the CEO is hollering to the sales department to increase revenue. The way a government is run, for the collective good of the nation and its citizens, requires that it exact the necessary tax in order to pay its bills. And when just 1% of the population controls most of the national wealth, taxing that wealth is required. There should be a law that requires all budget deficits to be covered by the super wealthy.

Sunday, May 09, 2010
No wonder the Cincy Retirement System is in a world of hurt…check this one out!

From John Curry, May 9, 2010
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100426/NEWS01/4250361

Formula bloated city pensions

Nurse’s base pay was $55,000, retired, she gets $191,400
By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com
cincinnati.com, April 26, 2010

Twenty-one people draw $100,000-plus annual pensions from the troubled Cincinnati Retirement System, many by including tens of thousands of dollars in overtime and unused vacation and sick time to boost their retirement benefits.

The list of the city’s top-paid retirees, which also includes another 18 people receiving pensions that top $90,000, is led by Karen Jetter, a former University Hospital nurse now drawing a $191,400 annual pension – more than three times her salary when she retired.

notsofast said:
Sunday, May 09, 2010No wonder the Cincy Retirement System is in a world of hurt…check this one out! From John Curry, May 9, 2010http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100426/NEWS01/4250361 Formula bloated city pensions Nurse’s base pay was $55,000, retired, she gets $191,400By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.comcincinnati.com, April 26, 2010 Twenty-one people draw $100,000-plus annual pensions from the troubled Cincinnati Retirement System, many by including tens of thousands of dollars in overtime and unused vacation and sick time to boost their retirement benefits. The list of the city’s top-paid retirees, which also includes another 18 people receiving pensions that top $90,000, is led by Karen Jetter, a former University Hospital nurse now drawing a $191,400 annual pension – more than three times her salary when she retired.

but we are getting a new streetcar system, so we will be ok lol

valkyrie101 said:
The fact is, wealth is accumulating in the hands of just a relatively few people, while 40% of the population is in or nearly in the poor house. The common man asks only for a job in a reasonable and safe work environment earning enough to pay his bills. But there are literally not enough jobs. Any fool knows that when your business is losing money that you try to limit your expenses as best you can, but at some point, you better believe the CEO is hollering to the sales department to increase revenue. The way a government is run, for the collective good of the nation and its citizens, requires that it exact the necessary tax in order to pay its bills. And when just 1% of the population controls most of the national wealth, taxing that wealth is required. There should be a law that requires all budget deficits to be covered by the super wealthy.

Where did you get your economics degree, again?

notsofast said:
Sunday, May 09, 2010
No wonder the Cincy Retirement System is in a world of hurt…check this one out!

From John Curry, May 9, 2010
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100426/NEWS01/4250361

Formula bloated city pensions

Nurse’s base pay was $55,000, retired, she gets $191,400
By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com
cincinnati.com, April 26, 2010

Twenty-one people draw $100,000-plus annual pensions from the troubled Cincinnati Retirement System, many by including tens of thousands of dollars in overtime and unused vacation and sick time to boost their retirement benefits.

The list of the city’s top-paid retirees, which also includes another 18 people receiving pensions that top $90,000, is led by Karen Jetter, a former University Hospital nurse now drawing a $191,400 annual pension – more than three times her salary when she retired.

But they should raid corporate profits to pay for the scam. Just ask val.

valkyrie101 said:
The fact is, wealth is accumulating in the hands of just a relatively few people

And you care because .. ? Are you doing okay?

Mr.Papshmer said:
And you care because .. ? Are you doing okay?

Everyone is adrift in a life boat, and a couple people have all the provisions.

ndanielson said:
Where did you get your economics degree, again?

University of Chicago.

notsofast said:
Well, how are those union members retiring on 100K pensions, son?

Unions make up a small percentage of the work force. But it is silly to compare the wages of the common unionized worker with those who own the engines of production.

Check out Wikipedia pages on Islam and its treatment of women. And check out what it says about so-called *choke* “honor killing” too. Horrendous stuff.

DUMB -ASS ‘ndanielson’ ! You prove my point . STUPID AS A DOOR KNOB. If these ‘far-right’ loonies are making America stronger by making them money according to your ‘twisted inbred mind’ so do PROSTITUTION, SALE OF COCAINE, METH, ETC – DRUGS AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. THE PEOPLE THAT ENGAGE IN THESE ACTIVITIES MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT ( CHEAP LABOR , CHEAP PRODUCTS, CHEAP SERVICES) SO LET’S MAKE THESE ACTIVITIES LEGAL SO THAT CORPORATE AMERICA COULD BE STRONGER.BY THE WAY, CORPORATE AMERICA SUPPORTS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. I GUESS NOT FOR YOUR DUMB INBRED ASS – YOU DON’T LIKE THE MEXICANS, RIGHT ? DUMB ASS, YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. NO COHERENT THOUGHT OR ARGUMENT ! STOP THE INBREEDING IN THE FAMILY DUMB ASS !!!

Miss Capri said:
Check out Wikipedia pages on Islam and its treatment of women. And check out what it says about so-called *choke* “honor killing” too. Horrendous stuff.

I suggest you read the old testament in the Bible as well sweetheart.

jcowan said:
DUMB -ASS ‘ndanielson’ ! You prove my point . STUPID AS A DOOR KNOB. If these ‘far-right’ loonies are making America stronger by making them money according to your ‘twisted inbred mind’ so do PROSTITUTION, SALE OF COCAINE, METH, ETC – DRUGS AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. THE PEOPLE THAT ENGAGE IN THESE ACTIVITIES MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT ( CHEAP LABOR , CHEAP PRODUCTS, CHEAP SERVICES) SO LET’S MAKE THESE ACTIVITIES LEGAL SO THAT CORPORATE AMERICA COULD BE STRONGER.BY THE WAY, CORPORATE AMERICA SUPPORTS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. I GUESS NOT FOR YOUR DUMB INBRED ASS – YOU DON’T LIKE THE MEXICANS, RIGHT ? DUMB ASS, YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. NO COHERENT THOUGHT OR ARGUMENT ! STOP THE INBREEDING IN THE FAMILY DUMB ASS !!!

mdanielson is a certified moron and a serial liar as well. Don’t make any intelligent effort to respond to him. This is a guy who claims Reagan created more jobs than Clinton did despite the overwhelming FACTUAL evidence refuting it.

If you notice the news footage of protest in certain Muslim countries the protesters are mainly males, but in Iran the protesters against the Islamic government is co-ed, both men AND WOMEN are protesting against the ISLAMIC country of Iran.

Let me get this straight, noted misogynist Bill Maher is bashing women haters? Awesome! Maher is a notorious hater of women. I watched his show PI for years and was repeatedly left with my jaw on the floor over Bill’s rabid and nightly bashing of women. Night in, night out he would rant away. It got so bad and unhinged from reality that I began to think that if a woman went missing in a 50 mile radius of Maher’s home, the cops should start looking in his basement.

Gasket said:
mdanielson is a certified moron and a serial liar as well. Don’t make any intelligent effort to respond to him. This is a guy who claims Reagan created more jobs than Clinton did despite the overwhelming FACTUAL evidence refuting it.

Never said anything of the sort, but it is interesting who you responded to. You are no where literate enough in economics to have a degree in economics, so the liar, twice, on one thread is you.

You are judged by the company you keep. You respond to this clown?

jcowan said:
DUMB -ASS ‘ndanielson’ ! You prove my point . STUPID AS A DOOR KNOB. If these ‘far-right’ loonies are making America stronger by making them money according to your ‘twisted inbred mind’ so do PROSTITUTION, SALE OF COCAINE, METH, ETC – DRUGS AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. THE PEOPLE THAT ENGAGE IN THESE ACTIVITIES MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT ( CHEAP LABOR , CHEAP PRODUCTS, CHEAP SERVICES) SO LET’S MAKE THESE ACTIVITIES LEGAL SO THAT CORPORATE AMERICA COULD BE STRONGER.BY THE WAY, CORPORATE AMERICA SUPPORTS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. I GUESS NOT FOR YOUR DUMB INBRED ASS – YOU DON’T LIKE THE MEXICANS, RIGHT ? DUMB ASS, YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. NO COHERENT THOUGHT OR ARGUMENT ! STOP THE INBREEDING IN THE FAMILY DUMB ASS !!!

Wow. You should demand that the university refund your tuition.

OxyCon said:
And again, your use of statistics to denigrate America is highly flawed because you fail to take into consideration the FACT that Muslim women do not report rapes because the penalty under sharia for women who get raped is death by stoning.

1. Quoting statistics is not denigrating in any way, neither are facts, and the occasionally ugly truth. Wanting to look at things realistically, rather than forcing reality to fit what we prefer to believe is also not denigrating.
2. I can’t believe you are oblivious to the fact that many many sexual assaults go unreported. around 60%, so your point is moot. Many go unreported in both cultures.
3. I’m pretty sure you know a shitload less about Sharia law than you think you know.

OxyCon said:
For some reason in your attempt to use a “false equivalency,” argument by comparing the sexual mistreatment of women in Islamic culture with that of Western civilization,

I never did that. The arrack on Logan is only tangentially related to Islamic culture and the issue of Islamic subjugation of women Making that one attack about Islam is more about a predisposition to dislike all things Muslim rather than the facts.

valkyrie101 said:

A marxist loon from the U. of Chicago. Didn’t know they had a shop degree in the economics dept…!

David Mangan says:
February 20, 2011 at 8:56 am David Mangan(Quote)
1 0
valkyrie101 said:

A marxist loon from the U. of Chicago. Didn’t know they had a shop degree in the economics dept…!

A typical braindead Reaganazi…..God, you jealous boys are sure jealous of those with an education, huh? Didn’t your lazy, right-wing father care to send you to college, boy?

It was nice of Kevin Smith to dress up for the occasion.

Miss Capri said:
Check out Wikipedia pages on Islam and its treatment of women. And check out what it says about so-called *choke* “honor killing” too. Horrendous stuff.

Is that similar to killing abortion doctors?

valk, you’re backsliding. Finding it necessary to defend the bad aspects of Islam by pointing out bad actions by others. Two wrongs make a right?

valkyrie101 said:
Is that similar to killing abortion doctors?

I guess I overestimated you.

I can think of 5 “muslim countries” that have elected women as heads of state. In all the years the United States has been a democracy, how many women have even come close to being elected president? Furthermore, it was only 50 years ago when police officers were turn hoses and siccing dogs on blacks because they wanted to eat in the same restaurants as whites.

How quick people are to forget our own past and ignore the present.

Firecat:

The issue is, are things getting better here, and constantly improving? If you compare us to middle-Eastern countries, we are worlds ahead.

writer said:
valk, you’re backsliding. Finding it necessary to defend the bad aspects of Islam by pointing out bad actions by others. Two wrongs make a right?

I’m just channeling some of that well deserved Islamic outrage to our own culture’s barbaric acts. Both are despicable, yes?

Yes, things are getting better here, but “worlds ahead”…hardly. That’s why I included the part about the treatment of blacks some 50 years ago. I’m not denying the fact that a lot of these countries need to improve (vastly), but it will take time.

I should also point out that I think this is more cultural than religious. I’m not sure if Bill Maher was just looking at Arabs or muslims in general.

This moral equivalency nonsense when debating the Islamic world needs to end. We in the west do not have state santioned stonings, female genital cutting, forced marriage, etc. And women in the western world are afforded the same rights as men in every aspect of society. Typical black American bulltalk!

valkyrie101 said:
As for the greedy corporations: yes I blame them for the plight of the poor. Why not, they have all the money.

That’s VERY telling. It’s an ignorant thing to say. You really need to read up on how things work.

First, without someone thinking of something to do, there would be no money. None. Only after one person comes up with an idea is there possibly something to trade of value. It starts from here and builds up.

This is why the deficits are such a problem now. It seemed okay when it seemed like we could grow out of the problem, but now we have reached the tipping point.

The greed that you probably assign to corporations is really misguided. The greed is at the government. For every dollar that they collect, they spend roughly $1.50. That extra money comes from our kids. That’s greed!

And it means the poor will stay poor. As the deficits grow, it means that the middle class is attacked. …which is what we see now as their assets are clobbered (like houses.)

At least we now know for sure that your understanding of things is wrong for sure.

koos de la rey said:
This moral equivalency nonsense when debating the Islamic world needs to end. We in the west do not have state santioned stonings, female genital cutting, forced marriage, etc. And women in the western world are afforded the same rights as men in every aspect of society. Typical black American bulltalk!

See, be definition, Modern Liberals/Progressives are multicultural. That means that they think all cultures are “equal”. This is why they have to work very hard at tearing down our culture. Since our culture is better, they hate it.

Same goes for Israel vs the Palestinians. The Israeli’s have a thriving economy with many Nobel Prize winners, entrepreneurship, symphony’s, etc. and it all has to be ignored or attacked.

This “equal” thinking applies to everything they do.

Think about how the libs think about the poor. They NEVER work to make the poor more rich. Instead, they work very hard to make the rich more poor while saying that the poor are victims of the rich.

It’s a mental disorder that allows them to think like this.

Alz said:
That’s VERY telling. It’s an ignorant thing to say. You really need to read up on how things work. First, without someone thinking of something to do, there would be no money. None. Only after one person comes up with an idea is there possibly something to trade of value. It starts from here and builds up. This is why the deficits are such a problem now. It seemed okay when it seemed like we could grow out of the problem, but now we have reached the tipping point. The greed that you probably assign to corporations is really misguided. The greed is at the government. For every dollar that they collect, they spend roughly $1.50. That extra money comes from our kids. That’s greed! And it means the poor will stay poor. As the deficits grow, it means that the middle class is attacked. …which is what we see now as their assets are clobbered (like houses.) At least we now know for sure that your understanding of things is wrong for sure.

The gap between rich and poor is escalating at a record rate. Eventually, just two or three corporations will own everything. And you are cool with that?

Hey Bill you are a giant douche. You have taken an extremely simplistic view on women and sexism that adds little to the discussion but scores you controversy points. Do you really think Muslim men’s supposed attitude toward women is the cause of Logan’s attack? What was the cause of the attacks that took place at Woodstock ’99? It is also needlessly simplistic and generalizing to characterize the attitudes of “Muslim men” everywhere based on the legal regimes in place in a number of Muslim countries. You then suggest that American men generally have a view of women that is somehow superior to the way Muslim men do. That’s ridiculous as well. What a good deal O.J. Simpson got for cutting off his wife’s head huh?

I think this is an example of a debate that felt more multi-sided than it actually was. Do all muslim men disrespect women? No, probably not. Do many muslim men treat women terribly? That’s absolutely certain. And that is a hinderance to social progress. There’s no need to qualify that statement. Some 95% of women traveling through Egypt report the most basic of sexual harassment or abuse.

That said, do women in the U.S. still get equal treatment? On some levels, in some circles, sure. And are they better treated here, on whole, than they are in many of those muslim countries in question? Sure. But there are still issues. And it’s relevant to raise those issues in a discussion about how nations treat women, is it not?

I like Bill Maher and I’m glad he made the point. I do think he slightly gets it wrong, though, to dismiss Smiley’s comment as mere cultural relativism. There’s nothing wrong with being reflective. It doesn’t have to comprise Maher’s point at all to say that the U.S., while we’re thinking about it, could also afford to look in the mirror.

valkyrie101 said:
The gap between rich and poor is escalating at a record rate. Eventually, just two or three corporations will own everything. And you are cool with that?

No, of course not. But by intervening, the government plays into the big companies hands as they are the ones who can help set the rules. It just pushes back on the smaller companies or people in the bigger companies thinking of starting a new company.

The system is our original system where we taught people morals and ethics, right and wrong, set the rules and let things run. With a solid legal system to handle enforcement and contract disputes, just about any problem could be solved.

But lefty’s don’t really trust anyone (or themselves) so they push for more and more government. With so much money flowing into this bigger government, things get very corrupted. Since it’s government, the problems sort of simmer and don’t get fixed.

The short answer is we have to go back to our founding ways and move away from so much government and central control.

bill maher needs to get his facts straight:

http://www.juancole.com/2011/02/top-five-myths-about-the-middle-east-protests.html

if you’re clueless (and he is), just shut your mouth.

and saying you need to treat women right before having a democracy..

The heckler was not asked to leave, but was picked up, slammed to the ground, security bashed the heckler’s
head with his foot, strangled him and then promised to smash his glasses if he found them. The heckler was handcuffed and later needed a visit to the emergency room. This is what we do with dissent nowadays. Vigilante justice in its highest form under the reign of Bill Maher. This heckler is my relative, someone’s grandson, boyfriend, and brother.

I like how Maher claimed he had to eject a heckler/protester “personally.” I think he forgets that that incident was recorded. Maher didn’t head toward the audience until the guy was safely in the hands of security.

Having to agree with Pseudo-intellect Maher, hurts me down deep.

Tavis is such a joke. IS this clown still on PBS? He is a good case study in why it should be de-funded, if so.

Cultural relativists cannot really believe the crap that falls out of their mouths, can they?

Firecat said:
I can think of 5 “muslim countries” that have elected women as heads of state. In all the years the United States has been a democracy, how many women have even come close to being elected president? Furthermore, it was only 50 years ago when police officers were turn hoses and siccing dogs on blacks because they wanted to eat in the same restaurants as whites. How quick people are to forget our own past and ignore the present.

Such a false, disingenuous argument. You trying to claim that America doesnt allow women to positions of power? Governors are the heads of their state, of which there have been too many women to count, you idiot!

You seriously are way too stupid to post on here- you need to post your anti american garbage for your sycophantic friends at huff post or kos. That way you can save yourself the humiliation of showing your ignorance to people with the ability to reason.

The worst part is, your argument is tantamount to enpowering the deep and brutal oppression of millions of muslim women around the world. Congratulations, I hope you feel great about that.

But if you hate this country so much, why dont you move to your beloved islamic state and see how much you enjoy your life there?

Unless of course, you love oppressing women- then I guess you’d enjoy it immensely.

valkyrie101 said:
The gap between rich and poor is escalating at a record rate. Eventually, just two or three corporations will own everything. And you are cool with that?

Ah yes, because everytime socialism is implemented it succeeds in keeping people from being poor right?

This comment is a perfect illustration of how ignorant the world view of the left is.

They work to save the world from the free market!

Because under capitalism the rich get richer, blah blah…you know the tired lines they use.

If they actually did their history homework, they would realize that every socialist/communist state that abandoned the free market did so by creating a state run oligarchy, that is to say a very real consolidation of power at the top.

This idiot frets over “two or three” corporations eventually owning everything, which in the history of the free market has never happened, and embraces a system in which, to put it simplistically, the government owns everything…and to cap it off his argument is theoretical, while the examples of state control under socialism/communism are very real.

This guy should move to Venezuela if he wants to see what a gap between the rich and poor is really like.

Latin2 said:
Did you see those LIBERAL’S faces.

Liberals,when it comes to Islam, always pull out the “moral equivalence” card.

Women in Islam are treated terribly and Liberals will always, always try to defend Islam by making the “we in the West or America are worst”…prove it.

Did you see their faces…that is why the majority of Liberals are out of touch with reality.

Let’s face it…WOMEN ARE TREATED TERRIBLY IN THE MUSLIM WORLD.

Anyone who thinks “Women in Islam are treated terribly…” has the same meaning as “WOMEN ARE TREATED TERRIBLY IN THE MUSLIM WORLD” is completely out of touch with reality.

Gasket said:
I suggest you read the old testament in the Bible as well sweetheart.

This is such a tired tactic of the left, and moral relativists in general. Let’s go over this one more time for you Gasket.

The West does not live by the harsh tenets espoused in the Old Testament. Fundamentalist Islamists (which includes countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia) that follow Sharia law, do.

Just because the Old Testament says some horrible things – and it does – does not mean that it is somehow wrong or hypocritical to point out the widespread horrendous treatment of women in the Islamic world.
It’s what’s being done in the here and now that matters, Gasket.

There are no government sanctioned stonings of “adulterers” in the secular West.

There are no government sanctioned hangings of homosexuals in the secular West.

I could go on and on, but I will leave it to you to hopefully be intellectually honest and curious (probably a fool’s hope on my part). You go look up what happens to women in the Islamic world.

Too often liberals and moral relativists seem to have lost a basic human trait: the ability to think clearly.

The Jack Burton said:
This is such a tired tactic of the left, and moral relativists in general. Let’s go over this one more time for you Gasket. The West does not live by the harsh tenets espoused in the Old Testament. Fundamentalist Islamists (which includes countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia) that follow Sharia law, do. Just because the Old Testament says some horrible things – and it does – does not mean that it is somehow wrong or hypocritical to point out the widespread horrendous treatment of women in the Islamic world.It’s what’s being done in the here and now that matters, Gasket. There are no government sanctioned stonings of “adulterers” in the secular West. There are no government sanctioned hangings of homosexuals in the secular West. I could go on and on, but I will leave it to you to hopefully be intellectually honest and curious (probably a fool’s hope on my part). You go look up what happens to women in the Islamic world. Too often liberals and moral relativists seem to have lost a basic human trait: the ability to think clearly.

Are you referring to ALL women in the Islamic world…it’s quite big you know, 1/4 of the world’s population.

If not all, then which ones? What is the percentage? Do you have statistics you can quote or are you just pulling this out of your imagination?

Thinking clearly requires research and an international understanding of how the world functions. You mindset is clearly Conservative American, which isn’t something to tout on an international level. You tend to be lazier, less eductated, more apt to buy into commercialism and have no understanding of the world around you.

Maher was mixing it all up, then he got all angry, and the guys from the panel were incapable of saying something differential and educated.
If you watch Real time regularly you will just as regularly see him bashing people from muslim countries.
That there’s people living in Muslim countries who are just as progressive or traditional as in any other country… he doesn’t care.
Besides, with the reviews of women (nice source Bill…) and a headline from a muslim who killed his wife (in the US) he made clear he was talking about men with a muslim/arab/middle eastern background no matter where they live.
It’s plain racist really.
And it’s very ironic that he uses dubious women’s reviews and the headline of a criminal in the US to support his opinion of men who are somehow related to the middle east where ever they live.
Especially since the guy was sentenced to 15 years which Bill acknowledged was a pretty good deal for cutting someone’s head off.
Which is funny because he did that crime in the US, and he got that deal in THE US.
He talked to much Bull, and noone on the panel was able to question that Bull intelligently.

Had he talked about the legal systems in Muslim countries, about the traditional suppresion of all civil rights in these countries, had he said that women have very few rights in these countries, I agree 100%.
But that’s wasn’t his point his all, he was referring to all brown men on this planet who in some way are related to islam, Arabia, the middle east, and they all treat women bad, that’s what Bill said, and he said it like that’s obviously indisputable.
No word about the emigrants, possibly 2nd generation who still aren’t accepted as equal citizens because of their skin, but have no ties to islam whatsoever.
No word about young people, both men and women, who are suppressed by the regimes in Muslim countries, no word about women who actually support the patriarchal regimes..

He always pretends to be informed on topics he talks about, but he really isnt at all.
The week before when Hooman Majd was on the panel Bill said “go in any cafe in Cairo almost all guys will tell you the Jews were behind 9/11″.
Oh, right, and Bill knows that because he went to every cafe in Cairo?
When Helen Thomas was involved in the scandal for saying Jews should go back to Germany / Poland because the countries are safe now (and I think she might consider to get herself in therapy for saying that), Bill very soon said about Palestinians with a smirk on his face but seriously meaning it: Why don’t Palestinians go to the surrounding Muslim countries?
It was disgusting to hear something that condescending from Bill.
Which is ironic because he said in April 2010, the mainstream media is pro-Palestinian because they don’t understand the issue.
Right, but he does…know everything about how Israel was founded, how the Palestinians were promised the land by the Brits/and the UN because they fought side to side with them against the turks, how Zionists (I dont mean that offensive, it’s what they were technically) bought land from the people and then found their state there.
Gaza is basically a prison, but of course Bill is the only one who understand the issue.

And apart from all that, where does his stupid opinion come from that women are civilized nice people by birth?
Was he alive in the 80s when Margret Thatcher was in charge?
Did he notice that Angela Merkel supports the senseless war in Afghanistan?
I love Bill, but he really has to get his head out of his anus concerning “middle eastern men” and women.
Here’s a short montage that shows his racism and his bigotry very clearly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHhcy1Kp0bE

The Jack Burton said:
This is such a tired tactic of the left, and moral relativists in general. Let’s go over this one more time for you Gasket.

The West does not live by the harsh tenets espoused in the Old Testament. Fundamentalist Islamists (which includes countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia) that follow Sharia law, do.

Just because the Old Testament says some horrible things – and it does – does not mean that it is somehow wrong or hypocritical to point out the widespread horrendous treatment of women in the Islamic world.
It’s what’s being done in the here and now that matters, Gasket.

There are no government sanctioned stonings of “adulterers” in the secular West.

There are no government sanctioned hangings of homosexuals in the secular West.

I could go on and on, but I will leave it to you to hopefully be intellectually honest and curious (probably a fool’s hope on my part). You go look up what happens to women in the Islamic world.

Too often liberals and moral relativists seem to have lost a basic human trait: the ability to think clearly.

You confuse things, and you do it deliberately or in consequence of a lack of knowledge.
The regime in Iran may be considered islamistic.
But most of the people living there are not.
Government – people = 2 different things.
Which must have been obvious to anyone with half a brain after the eruptions last year after the stolen election.
So the governments are one side, the suppressed people are another one, and it’s dumb and unfair to all put them in one bag, like they’re equal.
Besides, Bill was never referring to the regimes but to middle eastern/arab/muslim men where ever they live, he made it very clear with his example of the guy who cut off his wife’s head.
Which is just as anecdotal as the dubious women’s reviews on arab guys….
Gee. that was so Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck style argumentation.
And to refresh your memory, many crimes agains humanity were done by Christians, in the name of Christianity as well as by people who can be at least culturally referred to a Christians, from the genocide of Native americans, slavery to Hiroshima and Nagasaki to Vietnam.
So let’s not throw stones here, ever heard that term?
I’m sure we all agree that women are protected by law better in countries like the US or in European countries compared to Muslim countries.
But that has nothing to do with how middle eastern/arab/muslim men are as individuals and it’s racist to call them “wife beaters in general”, which is exactly what Bill did.

so nobody wants to comment on what the heckler was saying? did anyone even watch the clip?

Maher’s slam against Muslim men’s treatment of women is probably the ONLY thing I’ll ever agree with him on. Funny how the left is pretty much silent on Sharia law and it’s treatment of women as slaves. Perhaps it’s because Muslims are helping the left gain power and power takes precedence over anything else.

I know it’s almost unheard of but once in a while a sliver of truth exudes from the mouth of this JINO. Even a broken clock…

Hmmmm….

hey what is the big deal make the heckler the show and that would be funny

Donald Trump just might be the only person contemplating a 2012 Presidential campaign with a brain. If Obama had a birth certificate, that he wanted anyone to view, he would have shown it, rather than that false one he authorized to be placed on the web.

Fact Check, Updated: November 1, 2008
In the article, the truth about Obama’s birth certificate, Fact Check had pictures of a representative holding Obama’s original birth certificate. This article went on to conclude that anyone who thinks that Obama was not born in Hawaii, in 1961, is a certified crazy person. Controversy over……..but wait. One January 21, 2011, this article appeared:

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: ‘It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health. UK Daily Mail

Now, is an unspecified listing, or notation of birth, the same thing as a Certified, Long -Form, Birth Certificate? And when the current governor of Hawaii says, “a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health (UK Daily Mail)”, how is it that Fact Check had an original of Barack Obama’s birth certificate, and called all doubters “crazy people”?

Here is an article I wrote about this subject. Read it and Think.

SUNDAY, JANUARY 2, 2011
Obama’s Is A Natural Born Citizen

Here is the REAL deal on Obama’s birth certificate. Unfortunately, most everyone is going off on the wrong “trail”. Obama is really a Natural Born citizen of this country. This is the reason that he “toys” with the “Birthers”, and men of courage like Lt. Col. Lakin. Obama knows that should push came to shove, and the cowards in the media are not going to do it, he could prove that he is a Natural Born citizen. All the different published facts confuse the issue because some of the facts found are true, and some are false. But the real fact of the matter is that Obama is the son of his “grandfather”, Stanley Armour Dunham, and his mother is, as yet, some unnamed black woman. Yes, I repeat, Obama is the son of his “grandfather”, Stanley Armour Dunham. If you should doubt this check, and you will find that in May of 1997, all the records contained in a file, gathered and recorded by the FBI, detailing an investigation of Stanley Armour Dunham, were deleted. Dunham, it noted, was a frequent “customer” of black prostitutes. Now the issue of the “marriage” of Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham, which there is no proof, other than what Obama wrote about it in his book, is understood as only a “ruse” to avoid the moral fallout of that time period. So the issue of Obama being a Natural Born citizen is final, regardless if he was, or was not, born in Hawaii. Additional proof that this scenario is true can be logically substantiated by the very fact that Obama has spent many thousands of dollars to send lawyers to courts to stop from having to provide a legal long form birth certificate from Hawaii. Why would this President worry about letting his detractors see his legal birth certificate? Is he afraid that someone will assume his identity? Nonsense. Many of these law suits also ask for all his school records, all his passport information, all his adoption records, and records for all school loans he has ever received. The office of President is a job based on trust and honesty, and by not providing basic background information, information that is provided by thousands and thousands of potential employees seeking regular jobs every day, this is proof positive that there is something very negative being hidden by Obama. But alas…..This Birth Certificate issue is just a Red Herring. Stop wasting time, effort, and money on it. This President is a socialist and there is enough evidence to prove it. He is a fraud in most every way. Obama is in the process of turning this country into a democracy, and it is such a shame that the educational system of this country has been, and continues to be, so corrupt and negligent that it has not taught our youth the difference between a Democracy and a Republic. The ballot boxes will be the “guns” of this revolution unless patriotic citizens empower the military, of this nation, to do their duty to uphold this Constitution. The window of opportunity is open, but unless action is taken before the elections of 2012, this window will in all probability be closed for all history. FREEDOM is not free. It can only be held by blood, sweat, and tears by an admiring public. Long Live America and This Republic.
Lord Howard Hurts freedomfiles.blogspot.com

It appears that there is a leftist faction that is very much in support of Shariah law here in the United States. I fear that this faction will gain power and we will, indeed, see Shariah law enforced in the States. There is a catering to the Muslims in this country that I just don’t understand. My daughter attends a Catholic University that bends over backwards for their Muslim students to the point that the Muslim students receive 90% of the fellowships awarded. In addition, classes are interrupted while these students go to pray or eat or whatever they do. Caucasian students cannot get single rooms in the dorms but yet the Muslims can and do. It’s a very curious thing.

That is bull.Muslim women don’t report rape because they will be blamed for it!

We are supposed to be talking about the treatment of women.  When was the last time you heard of an American woman getting stoned or having her nose and ears cut off like they do in Islamic countries?

If they are “immature” it will take them thousands of years to catch up to Western countries.

Get real!

 Religious men treat women like shit would be a better line!

 Blamed for it, and probably be murdered by their “loving” families for “honor”.