I bet if somebody held a gun to his head, vanilla ice cream would be the only thing he wanted to eat for the rest of his life while riding “bitch” on a scooter.

Does Allen West eat Ben and Jerry’s ice cream?

Would he? Is he Ben and Jerry curious?

I’m sure that having a career not studying these issues makes him an expert on them.

That is the Tea Party philosophy in a nutshell.

Nacho_II,

You play rough. Yikes!

They breed a different sort of gay in Georgia. Radoactive gays I think they’re called. Only Allen West can see them.

They breed a different sort of gay in Georgia. Radoactive gays I think they’re called. Only Allen West can see them.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Never having had any interest in this dunce, I watched this clip out of curiosity. Jesus, if this is a person who thinks he can lead the United States,our national psyche is a thousand times worse than I thought. This man is more ignorant than 99% of the people in this country, and the good people of Florida have already voted him into office.  We’re in deep shit.

Nature versus Nurture

or a Combination?

On a deeper level, it should not matter. People should be able to be people.

Sexuality as well as gender is complex.

I may appear to be Conservative, but, first and foremost, I am principled. If I expect “equal protection” then we all should receive such. After all, what is equal protection? Seems like a fairly simple concept. Did you read anything on the Bowers v. Hardwick, a Supreme Court case? Google it and get an overview. Was decided just a bit before America started to lighten up on Gays. Is interesting

You are confused as usual. Barney Frank is a dunce. Nanny Pelosi is a dunce. Harry Reid is a dunce. Debbie Shultz is a dunce. You are a dunce.
I hope that unconfuses you.

To be fair (I live in the district next to West’s), he replaced a horribly corrupt Congress Critter named Ron Klein. Frankly, West could have been a freaking Martian and he would have beaten Klein. And I for one am glad that thief Klein is gone from office.

I don’t think he will see a second term on that district, but we are going through redistricting, so you never know. This is Florida – the dumbest state.

That was interesting. Thanks.

The actual Georgia law that Bowers upheld was overturned in 1998 by the Georgia Supreme Court in Powell v State and the remaining such laws and the original Bowers case was overturned by the Supreme Court in the 2003 Lawrence v Texas case.

I agree that equal protection under law is the cornerstone of freedom and I regard myself as principled. The basis of the decisions that overturned the various sodomy laws was privacy and due process, thus affording equal protection to consenting adults in private.

I do not believe in special treatment for any group or person. Equal is equal.

Well, you guys did have that unfortunate difficulty with the “butterfly ballot,” but there is a lot of competition for the dumbest state.

Well done. Now try and connect Eisenstadt v. Baird, with Griswold v. Connecticut, with Roe v. Wade. The Court and America would never have had a Roe, without a Eisenstadt.

Furthermore, limiting the interpretivist inclinations of the Supreme Court can sound good to the “principled” individual. That is, until their “Ox is gored?” “Principle” is my Philosophy, and just like a Religious belief, adherence can be personally challenging.

Thank you KEEVA, for your response.

First of all, I would like to go on record, as a Tea Party attendee and supporter, that I disagree with at least one thing Rep. West said.  Though I suppose people can, technically, change their sexual BEHAVIOR (by denying and repressing their true sexuality), I do not believe people can choose their sexuality.  This is one of a few difficulties that I, as a fiscally conservative libertarian, have with the Republican Party.  But it sounds like West deserves a little credit for saying people have the right to choose their behavior, whether he condones it or not.  

As for the Tea Party philosophy, it is all about fiscal conservatism.  People did not get up off their couches and go to their local parks to protest gay marriage, or abortion, or rap lyrics, or whatever else you try to package together with all conservative, Republican causes.  Tea Partiers got off their asses because the government is on a path to spend us into oblivion, and we are about to lose the American way of life.  You may disagree with our conclusion, but to paint the Tea Party movement as anything other than that is intellectually dishonest.  If you personally know people who are Tea Party supporters, who are also Right to Lifers, or Defense of Marriage people, that does not mean that all Tea Partiers are Right to Lifers and Defense of Marriage people.

Thank you for your attention.

Another hillbilly teabagger who can’t help himself.

Good common sense call Allen. However, I don’t believe it is a choice for all.

I agree about a lot of Tea Party supporters and members. They are sincere in their desire for fiscal sanity and are not out there for the social stuff. However, the GOP and conservatives in general co-opted the Tea Party for the social stuff and that is where the disconnect happened.

I personally think that the Tea Party concept that just spending cuts solves the problem is fairly naive. It will take both cuts and tax increases. However, the electorate in those districts that sent Tea Party reps to Congress agreed with the basic cuts only plan and therefore, those reps are doing their jobs. However, anyone that signed the Norquist pledge has screwed their constituents unless Grover lives in their district. The only pledge any member of Congress has is to the Constitution and to their constituents. Allegiance to some lobbyist with a fancy DC office is the opposite of what they were sent there to do.

I look at this as someone that owns a business. When the recession hit my business, I had to both cut my costs and increase fees. Just one or the other would not have kept my business going. I limited travel, renegotiated everything from internet to phones, cut back on office supplies and such. But I also raised my fees to cover the rest of the gap between cost and income. The US is in the same spot and needs to do both. Failing to do both only assures the problems remain.

Both Eisenstadt and Griswold removed anti-contraceptive laws. Eisenstadt overturned a Mass. law prohibiting sale to unmarried couples and Griswold overturned a Connecticut ban on the grounds of marital privacy. Roe was a semi-logical extension of these 2 decisions when adding up the privacy issues of contraception in Griswold and the right to sex and contraception between unmarried consenting adults in Eisenstadt. Roe also factored in a measure of women’s rights, which were, at the time, a key legal issue. The issue of women’s rights is largely seen as settled law now, with the primary exception of Roe (also seen as settled law, but still challenged,) which remains in contention more because of the moral/religious issue than the actual underlying women’s rights issue.

I believe that limiting the interpretivist ability of the courts, while seemingly a good idea, flies in the face of the crucial check and balance that the courts apply to the executive and legislative branches. At the same time, the legislative branch is obligated to examine overturned law and the court ruling to see if the courts have provided a way to recreate the law in a Constitutional manner. I am of the firm belief that this is the check and balance the founders envisioned.

Being principled in all matters is hard work, but worth it. I try to be, but do fail sometimes. In the case of failure, the principled thing to do is admit the failure and strive to not repeat it.

Thanks for a good exchange of thoughts.

Yes, there is, but we are really working hard to keep our title.

Just because West shot a gun next to the head of an innocent Iraqi policeman does not mean he’ll fold and eat vanilla when the same is done to him.  He may however, suck the dick of the shooter to make him stop. I guess West is right, someone can change their sexual behavior…..like him.

Not only is human sexuality complicated, so are those court cases.  I was familiar up to the Hardwick case.  Thanks to you and Keeva for walking me through the more recent cases.  I understand a little bit better, now. 

I believe, it’s a matter of degrees, like Kinsey.  He had a scale which went from one to six, with six being the most homosexual.  The matter of sexual identity and genetics is still unfolding.  However, there is compelling evidence that at least some homosexuality is genetic or that in-utero trauma where the fetus is exposed to high levels of testosterone, may cause homosexuality in males.  Rep. West seems way behind the times in his thinking on this.

That was very enjoyable. FREAK, KEEVA, MEZZO and myself, there was a relevent exchange of ideas. A book written by Judge Robert said it well, as the title is “The Tempting of America.” The Court always risks infusing the law with personal predilection. Therefore, the composition of the court; it is imperative the member’s philosophy be based on principle.

ask any gay person if they chose to be gay and see what they say. thats why i cant stand some people. they say being gay is a choice when the fact is NO GAY PERSON HAS EVER COME OUT AND SAID THEY CHOSE TO BE GAY. NEVER

KEEVA,

Let me run this by you:  I have concluded that Roe needs modification.  Technology tells us today that fetal viability begins sooner than once thought, therefore, the trimester protocol, is now invalid.  Perhaps, limiting “abortion on demand” to one and a half months would be in order?

I realize this will never satisfy the pro-life bloc, however, by way of “principle,” is not the point?

Regarding Eisenstadt and Griswold.  It has continued to amaze me how many opponents of Roe do not know the legal progression.  I ask them if their wife or girlfriend uses birth-control?  Then, briefly explain the Legal implications, some, not all, ingest the new information…  Ouch!

Law should NOT be based on moral caprice, rather, be concluded through reasoned deliberation and “principle.”

Jesse Ventura+Michele Bachmann=’Nuff Said

“He may however, suck the dick ”

You sound so envious and talk from experience.

Come on, lib, call West the “n” word- that’s what ya want to do.

Just because you support sodomy is no reason to criticize those who do not engage in your peculiar and depraved predilections.

That was nasty and irrelevant!
 

The spending has to be cut first.  Reagan signed tax increases into law in the 80s with the promise that government spending would be cut.  The spending never was cut.   I think if you get real meaningful reform and spending cuts, than most tea partiers would be more open to reform that would include tax increases.  However, our tax system is more progressive than most of the world and I would personally like to see the tax base be broader. 

I believe that many of us feel inclined to behave in ways that are not sanctioned by law or society. That we choose not to act on our inclinations is what many call character. We see the repercussions of poor choices on those around us and choose not to light fires, steal, rape, etc. Some of us will only be stopped from such behaviors by consequences or laws. Alan West was correct about our behavioral choices. The difference between what you believe and he believes seems to be that you believe that some behaviors should not be subject to law or society because it’s hard to control the behavior. Yours is a slippery slope and has natural consequences that are devastating to all peoples in any society.

I think we need to see exactly what the state of medical science is now as compared to then and rely on the science. Each case is likely to be different as far as viability outside the womb, potential issues with the fetus ans so on. The actual decision point should be one that is set into medical ethics and procedure as compared to law.

One of the reasons I say this is that the attending doctor is far more qualified to determine the status than the law. Law is, by necessity, uniform and determinative in nature. If the law was to set 6 weeks instead of 12, it would not take into account that each fetus develops differently. And it would be on the doctor to take the responsibility of the action.

Doctors should have the right and power to veto an on-demand abortion request if they feel – based on science and not religion – that the fetus is too far along to meet the basic qualification for the procedure. In much the same way that a potential transplant recipient is evaluated for multiple factors, so should the potential mother and fetus be evaluated.

A large part of the debate today centers around the health of the mother. Many anti-abortion laws make no exception for this, even though the courts have routinely ruled that it needs to be a factor.

The biggest issue with the endless flow of anti-abortion laws is that they tie the doctor’s hands with an arbitrary and general schedule, and leave minimal flexibility in the hands of the one person most qualified to know the exact status of that particular patient. And I believe that the medical community is largely principled and can set appropriate guidelines without the pressure of religion or politics.

That said, I maintain that it is ultimately between the woman, the man (still need one of these to make a baby) and the attending physician. Once the doctor explains the status, it is then up to the couple to make their choice not based on anything except their beliefs and the information they have been given.

Medical science also needs to tell us at what point the fetus can survive outside the womb.  That matters a lot and remains an open question, that, based on what – at the end of the day – case to case.

Ultimately, I believe that a doctor is far more qualified to answer this than a legislator or a cleric, and certainly more qualified than me.

I could not agree more that law needs to be based on principle, but it also should be based on science where appropriate, and never on religion or moral caprice.

I sincerely hope you are right, but the position seems to be cuts only. Listening to the leaders of both the House GOP and the Tea Party, this does seem to be a hard line in the sand (to summon a tired cliche). They constantly refer back to the Norquist pledge as their guiding principle, and that is simply wrong.

I sincerely hope you are right, but the position seems to be cuts only. Listening to the leaders of both the House GOP and the Tea Party, this does seem to be a hard line in the sand (to summon a tired cliche). They constantly refer back to the Norquist pledge as their guiding principle, and that is simply wrong.

Gotta admit that Ventura was a doozy. We’re working on it. LOL.

I think the real thing on this that sets West apart is that, even though he sees this as a “choice” he is also unwilling to allow government to force that choice. In other words, personal freedoms, even where he personally disagrees. Rare these days.

Note that I am generally not a fan of West, or most other elected officials to be honest.

There is absolutely zero “proof” that there is a genetic connection to being born homosexual.  Anyone who claims that is not being honest.  Most gay people did not choose to be attracted to the same sex, but do pedophiles choose their attraction?  Is there some made up “proof” that there is pedophile DNA?  Just because someone has no memory of why they are sexually attracted to a certain condition doesn’t mean that they were born that way, and it doesn’t mean that it is healthy.   Gay culture is a big umbrella that covers all sorts of destructive sexual behavior.  

Goodbye Allen. It’s God or your thinking -there is no middle ground. We are either with Him or against Him and you have chosen. It is one thing to do wrong, it is far more grevious to call it a good, causing others to do far greater wrong.!

Reason and principle without morality? Surely you jest – in your corrupted unreasoned belief that there can be principle and reason that eliminated the consideration of morality and natural law. If man were, as the  antiGod left (and right) would have you believe, just another species -then we need neither of these, principle, reason or morality -but we’re not. That is just the same old forces of evil that convince us we are just animals -driven only by the desire to act like them. Your reason without morality justifies the Japs and Germans winning WWII.with all the atrocities they committed s okay -the end justifies the means.

Thank you for displaying how crude liberal posters on this site are. Time for you to be banned for such a crass response.

Mediaite – time to ban Nacho II and Tedderman!

What a horrible post.

Mediaite – Please ban this poster.

Correction: Palm Beach County had problems with the butterfly ballots. The rest of the State did fin.

That’s funny stuff, you rather have your son or daughter killed by Taliban than play rough with a “freedom fighter”. Sorry for you.

The GOP didn’t co-opt anything having to do with the Tea Party. The Tea Party just realizes that it’s easier to work within an already set structure than to tackle a Party (Democratic) that is so far off the edge. Therefore, we’ll make our strides within the GOP Party as they’re the more fiscally sane Party (in general).

The Tea Party believes in a form of tax revenues and that’s called job creation. I don’t think that taxes need to be raised. I think that organizations need to be defunded and restructured.

As far as your business, it depends what type of business you operate. It’s not the same principle as tax structure and entitlement programs. As a business, you should always look to cutting costs. You choose to increase those fees. However, when you sell a product, your merchandise or service gets utilized. That is not the same principle with an entitlement program. You don’t provide a service or a good and the good goes away from your store. Entitlement programs remain consistent and grow. Therefore it’s not the same setup. What needs to happen is either the entire SS system gets restructured (Paul Ryan’s plan) or the age of retirement and when people can pull money out is increased. However, what person that is older wants to wait until they’re older to pull money? Taxes are not the answer. Enough taxes are already pulled out. Simple as that.

So obviously there was a point at which Rep. West was tempted to engage in homosexual behavior and chose not to; in other words, if being gay is a choice, so is being straight.

I welcome the idea of a flat tax. However, you’re not going to get individuals that receive subsidies go kindly into the wind. If you knock the oil companies, then you should also knock the green energy companies. It’s only fair.

Wow, you are awful.  Engaging in consensual, loving relations with another adult is just like the rape of children?  

Sorry, but there is a much stronger connection between the Catholic Church and pedophilia than there is between the gay community and pedophilia.  Most pedophiles self-identify as straight.

Wow, you are awful.  Engaging in consensual, loving relations with another adult is just like the rape of children?  

Sorry, but there is a much stronger connection between the Catholic Church and pedophilia than there is between the gay community and pedophilia.  Most pedophiles self-identify as straight.

I can’t believe that anyone educated would cite Kinsey on anything – except how prisoners lure children.
Yep, old Alfred learned so much, be began doing the dirty deed himself.
Read a book.

~(Ä)~

No – California would be the dumbest state. And several other liberal states, if we’re basing this decision on policy alone. :)

Ask any poor person if they chose to be poor. Poverty must be genetics.

Ask any poor person if they chose to be poor. Poverty must be genetics.

I think if you start reading more of the posts, Keeva from people like myself and earlgrey, you’ll see that our hope is the cuts, fraud and waste must come first, then tax reform. With proper tax reform income will increase after alot of b.s. deductions and shelters are eliminated. Everybody tries to pin shit on the teaparty types that aren’t honest evaluations, just soros, media matters and the whitehouse throwing as much shit and seeing what sticks.

I think if you start reading more of the posts, Keeva from people like myself and earlgrey, you’ll see that our hope is the cuts, fraud and waste must come first, then tax reform. With proper tax reform income will increase after alot of b.s. deductions and shelters are eliminated. Everybody tries to pin shit on the teaparty types that aren’t honest evaluations, just soros, media matters and the whitehouse throwing as much shit and seeing what sticks.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
“Facts about Homosexuality and Pedophilia”

“For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.”

THAT, was well worth the time you put into it and the time it took, to read. As a student of Plato and “dialectic philosophy,” I enjoy the question and answer method to consider social/legal issues. Our recent posting journey demonstrates such, perfectly. As for your assertion that more credibility or power be given to the Doctor, as opposed to morally or legally obsessed interloper’s, I tend to agree. However, that amorphous blob sometimes referred to as the Legal system, always wants to be looking in/on, if even just a little bit? Moreover, to accede more efficacy to the Doctor in the one area, (choice) establishes a principle, a “neutral principle,” that by way of that Philosophy, extends a Doctor’s responsibility to other areas? For instance: Death with dignity could easily come under the purview of granting Doctors more decision making power in life or death decisions. There have been a number of cases in the last 20 years where Doctor’s lives have been virtually destroyed by typically zealous Prosecutors and Religious Leaders, for making end of life decisions, only to have his/her judgement questioned. KEEVA, I have written on this subject and there is enough for a whole book on this one issue! I try to narrow my subject to how “neutral principle,” if acknowledged and applied could affect these cases. Simply put, NP is “equal protection,” or, the equal and consistent application of law and social interaction, as not everything is or should be codified by law? GOOD STUFF!

In other words, pedophilia is just as akin to heterosexuality as it is to homosexuality; it is simply another orientation, but can be distinguished from both by the fact that it revolves around coercion and praying upon the innocent.

It’s about time a black person called out the gay rights movement on it’s bogus equivalence of gay rights with civil rights.  The fact is that homosexuality is a behavior.  Being gay is not a race, gender, or nationality.  It’s a self defined and self identifying label that means whatever the gay person decides it means for them as an individual.  I object to gay rights because I believe I have the right to judge people for their behavior.  I’m of the “ick factor” crowd.  It’s a disgusting personal habit and the state does not have the right to tell me how I can react to the disgusting personal habits of others.  Gay rights laws are nothing more than legislating the reaction to a personal habit.

Oh, do I sound bitter with a chip on my shoulder?  Damn right I’m bitter.  I smoke.  I, too, perform a personal habit that many people find disgusting.  I sure wish I had the gay rights lobby shaming people who object to me and my habit out there fighting the good fight on my behalf.  Wouldn’t that be nice?

It’s about time a black person called out the gay rights movement on it’s bogus equivalence of gay rights with civil rights.  The fact is that homosexuality is a behavior.  Being gay is not a race, gender, or nationality.  It’s a self defined and self identifying label that means whatever the gay person decides it means for them as an individual.  I object to gay rights because I believe I have the right to judge people for their behavior.  I’m of the “ick factor” crowd.  It’s a disgusting personal habit and the state does not have the right to tell me how I can react to the disgusting personal habits of others.  Gay rights laws are nothing more than legislating the reaction to a personal habit.

Oh, do I sound bitter with a chip on my shoulder?  Damn right I’m bitter.  I smoke.  I, too, perform a personal habit that many people find disgusting.  I sure wish I had the gay rights lobby shaming people who object to me and my habit out there fighting the good fight on my behalf.  Wouldn’t that be nice?

Thanks for yelling thaat at us, but i hate when people make sweeping generalities. My niece was straight, then tried gay for about two years, now dating guys again. Was it a choice? I haven’t asked her, but it didn’t seem natural at the time. Just saying.

Do yourself a favor and google some of his townhall’s. West is bright, articulate, and a very tough opponent in an argument. Don’t make up your mind just because he’s a black republican, I know you libs hate that.

I agree that huge cuts are needed, but job creation is not happening. And that continues to be the problem. It is not a matter of regulation or such. It is a simple matter of business. Business found out in 2007-2009 that they could operate with fewer employees. All of the tax cuts on the planet will not cause them to change this. Note that government has no way to “create” a private sector job. None. And since cutting spending is the first step, then jobs will actually be eliminated from government, creating more unemployment and further impacting business and slowing private sector job growth.

When you defund an organization, you unemploy actual people that were spending actual money in the actual economy. It becomes an infinite cycle.

On taxes, individual taxes are too high, but corporate taxes are epically low. The effective rate is the lowest among industrialized nations. The initial rate is not what they pay.

As to your take on entitlement programs they are utilized since that money goes right into the economy when it is spent. Food stamps buy groceries from stores that employ people. Unemployment checks are spent on rent and that money enters the economy.

Do they need fixing? Absolutely. Is the Ryan plan the way to go? No. Medicare is simple. Means test it. How many Medicare recipients are currently employed by companies that provide private health insurance or can afford it on their own? If it is even one, it is too many. Same with Social Security. These were always meant to be means tested, but Congress over the years, (both parties) have handed them to everyone in response to lobbyists and fear of voters. They need to be returned to means testing.

Unemployment is an ungainly system. It needs streamlining and should be remade as an employment assistance program in the form of a tax break for a business that hires. Ultimately, the goal should be getting people back to work.

Note that the Ryan plan decreases revenues (already at a 10 year low) and never balances the budget. While it is a good starting point, the fact that it refuses to even look at increasing revenue is naive and unworkable. The fact that many companies pay little or no taxes on massive revenue should be an alarm ringing loudly. So it is not as simple as that. Many that should pay taxes do not because the tax code is rigged that way. Here is one simple change that will bring in a lot of new revenue – stop allowing US companies to keep money made overseas out of the US to avoid any taxes. They declare it as profit and then get to eliminate it as taxable.

Better yet let’s go to a simple flat tax. One rate for everyone and every business. No deductions, exemptions, credits or whatever. Then the actual tax rate would be clear and simple.

I agree that spending is out of control. It is insane and has been for the last decade. If the Tea Party can put the brakes on that train alone, they will have accomplished more than Congress and 2 presidents.

The biggest problem today is the lack of willingness to compromise at any level. This is just bad governance. And I maintain that the Norquist pledge is wrong and any member of Congress that signs it has automatically slaved themselves to a constituency of one lobbyist.

I keep hearing we need to run the government more like a business, yet you seem to be saying the opposite. Perhaps I misunderstood your comment. Could be.

Speaking of business, I need to get to a meeting. Have a good one!

I would share an ice cream cone with Allan. MMMMMM. Sexy guy.

 We can no more change our sexual preference then we can change our skin color. I also get upset when I hear people that I think are intellegent say homosexualty is a choice. Alcohalism is not a choice, Diabetis is not a choice. Obesity is a choice. Being an AH is a choice. Ya know, you have to maintain every day. Homosexuality is not a disease and not a choice.
 There are times when an abortion is necessary. Those times are between the women , her family and her MD. I don’t give a rats a** if you want an abortion…find a way to pay for it yourself…and remember this …there is no women I know that had one that sometime later in her life dosen’t think …what could have been…not an easy decision. Reminds me of what dad used to say…better to mind your own business then be an AH.

thats so ridiculously stupid i’m not going to even bother to argue it. just ask a gay person if they chose to be gay and see what they say

its called being bi-sexual. it means you’re into both males and females. also if you really think being gay is a choice, then choose to be gay for a while and see if you like it. heres what will happen, you will either like it, which means you’re gay or bi-sexual, or you wont which means you are straight. thats how it works bub

Agreed on subsidies. Oil, green, whatever, Time to stop. Same with sending money to countries that hate us, not to mention being the primary funder of the UN.

Besides admitting to being bitter, you should also admit to being stupid. 

Same sex attraction has a lot more in common with race than with with smoking. People aren’t born smokers. It’s a learned behavior, usually when one enters their teens. Most gays and lesbians say that they were well aware of their attractions from their earliest youth. 

Smokers suffer from a chemical addiction that can be curbed through various means. Millions have succeeded. Gays and lesbians have life-long desires that cannot be altered. “Reparative therapy” is a well-known joke and succeeds for only a tiny minority of those who opt in. 

Please, before you post next time, would you actually do a little research?

Your statements are pure truthiness. If it feels true, you figure it must be. There are countless studies that completely contradict your claims. For you to say that there’s “zero” proof shows your stupidity. 

Sorry, but you need to do your homework before you post next time. 

Oh, do I sound bitter with a chip on my shoulder?

Yes you do. Perhaps you smoke the wrong plant.

Job creation isn’t happening because of uncertainty in the market. Any business that calls into radio programs tell us that they don’t like the health care law, inconsistencies in the forms of EPA regulation and tax structure (tax rhetoric always changes which means that a business can’t forecast future cost of goods outside of a 1-2 yr time period) but most businesses like to operate on a forecast schedule. What is the outlook for a 1 year, 3 year, 5 year, 10 year, etc. plan? That isn’t possible right now. You have the administration telling businesses that the Bush tax cuts are going to go away and then stay and then they’re going to go away and then they stayed again and then oh another mention that they’re going to go. That’s not good.

And yes, government can create private sector jobs. In the sense that government acts as a catalyst for more job creation or no job creation. That’s government’s primary purpose. The fact that it doesn’t do that doesn’t mean that government serves no role. It only means that the current administration isn’t performing the proper role.

I am fine with defunding organizations or stripping them of their role while they get made into something that is actually effective. Tons of government related entities need to be restructured. It becomes a cycle when you have an inefficient organizational structure.

The Tea Party has always advocated for tax reform. Some of the people that we believe in talk about tax reform. Paul Ryan tackled tax reform. The President hasn’t done so, so put the onerous on him, not the Tea Party. We’d love to get someone done. Palin, the largest Tea Party supporter, has advocated for tax reform.

As per food stamps, the fact that you are addressing it as an entitlement program instead of a program that was begun as a way to assist people as they transitioned into a job, tells me that you really don’t want to work on restructuring programs that weren’t supposed to be created into oblivion. That’s not to say that you’re a bad person, but seriously…defending a food stamps program is bad. Especially when the state of Michigan just found that several thousand took advantage of the program. So no, the program needs to be restructured.

Dude – Ryan’s plan was never set out to address both the tax structure and entitlements. You are attacking the wrong person. Ryan offers a plan. Where is the President’s? Ryan’s plan is very credible to me. He talks about means testing and he talks about tax reform. Ryan isn’t some far right ideologue. He lives in a liberal district, voted for TARP and the GM bailout. So he’s not some conservative stalwart that I lean on for total conservative prowess.

I’ve proposed to you revenue increases. That is called employment. Let’s try my plan of employment before we go to the idea of tax increases. That’s called commonsense planning. If the government produces a free-market style governorship of the nation and this still fails to create jobs, then yes, increase taxes. However, right now, taxes are not needed.

I don’t believe in the idea of compromise. I believe in the idea of good sound policy. If someone on the Democratic side offers a good free-market idea, then good. If someone from the Republican side offers a good free-market idea, also good. My stance isn’t Right or Left. It’s policy-driven and compromising is not an option because letting liberals rule the political roost got us into these problems to begin with.

If you’d like to effect change, work in politics. Don’t comment on some blog talking about how you think something is effective. Go out and create that change. That’s all the Tea Party did. We got involved. I worked in CA politics at the basic level. Therefore I know that enacting CA policies is wrong and that’s what you’re condoning. Sorry, but taxing the bazillions out of people is not going to create some good environment. Look to CA.

So you ascribe to the idea that homosexuals are born gay?  That there is a “gay gene”?

Think about your answer.  I’m pro-abortion.  I don’t think you want to go there.  But I hope you do.

Tell me about it.  I could probably get away with smoking weed in public before I would my Virginia Slims Menthols.

Today’s my 60th birthday, trying new things for me consists of smaller depends and a stronger fiber pill. I ain’t trying anything that fancy, bub, and if i liked it, not that there’s anything wrong with that, my wife would kill me. End of story.

That tells us a lot about you.
Anyhow, I would not count on it being true.

This is also why groups like GOProud like West and Palin.

It’s also why you get Tammy Bruce supporting Palin. These folks have a libertarian sense when it comes to personal choices. I agree with folks like West and Palin.

You are one of the most negative posters on this site. Drop the condescending attitude as you add nothing but negativity to a post. Take your anger elsewhere.

I am virtually certain you are in over your head in this conversation. Regardless, scholarly ignorance would not bother me if you were polite and inquisitive. Sadly, as is typical of moral self assurance coupled with ignorance, you lash out at what you do not know. In other words, you are exhibiting fear. This type of fear throughout human history has resulted in ghastly and unnecessary misery to millions of people. As you are case in point, “fear” of this nature still exists and if given the opportunity through Religious or Political avenues would perpetrate the same atrocities, as in the past. CRAPPIE, had you been civil and engaging, perhaps asking questions of us, you would have welcome. As it stands, I refuse to even comment on your assertions, hence you are sentenced to remain the outside of wisdom, forever looking inside, finding little comfort, in what you will never know.

you must be a liberal

Yep. Illinois and California are in the top two.

Yep. Illinois and California are in the top two.

I suppose, to be consistent with your semi-repudiation of science, that you find Charles Darwin to be a charlatan?

Ergo, evidence and facts are credible, only if “SUZANNE” deems them to be such?  Furthermore, you find empirical study or evidence to be a tedious annoyance that gets in the way of an execution?

You are one sick puppy.

The Supreme Court has called race or sex an “immutable difference.”  Hence, Minorities and Women can be discriminated against with greater ease.  A homosexual, generally speaking, is not definitively,  different enough to merit “heightened scrutiny,” by the State.

In conclusion: Overt behavior of a Gay man is a choice, simply being Gay, is NOT a choice.  A case is much more easily made that an African American was fired from their job, because of his race than a Gay man, for his being Gay.

Just a brief and simple Supreme Court History Lesson, from memory.  Were any of you to Google the phrases I mentioned, that too would help your understanding.

I think you misread either the article or my comment.  Where Alan West and I differ is only in his belief that homosexuality is a choice.  As for whether the”chosen behavior” should be changed, he  specifically said, according to the article, “Oh, Tony, c’mon!  No, I don’t think that.”

As for what I believe, you are correct.  As a libertarian, I believe that there some behaviors that are none of anyone else’s business, and therefore should not be of any concern to anyone else – especially lawmakers.  If people are consenting adults, and they are not harming anyone else, or being a fiscal burden on society, then stay out of their bedrooms.  But it sounds like Alan West has the same attitude, from that interview, at least about homosexuality.  

I would contend that there is no slippery slope there.  There is a big guardrail in front of that slope, called “the harming of others.”  Rape, arson, and theft, to use your examples, harm others.  Homosexuality harms no one.  

A family friend of mine recently came out.
She’s in her late 60s. Very Catholic, and tried to be a nun when she was younger. But she knew she was living a lie all her life. She decided that she wanted to live the rest of her years comfortable with her own identity.

Another question: Why would anyone consciously choose the gay lifestyle? Obviously the United States isn’t the best country to live a gay life in. Why would anyone purposefully make a decision that brings social judgement and legal troubles?

I don’t believe any of this is black or white.  I agree that it is absolutely a choice, for some people.  For others, they are simply not attracted to the opposite sex, at all.  For others, they aren’t attracted to either sex.  For others, they may be attracted to one, the other,neither or both, but choose to have sex with all.  Regardless, this Tea Partier nutcase believes people should be left the hell alone to be who they want to be.  When they cross the line and hurt someone else or damage another person’s property, they should be held accountable.

Funny how you call out Nature Freak when the post he/she was replying to was nothing but bitter vitriol.

I think you already understood, but I am just trying to make clear: I was not taking a position on any of the other issues I mentioned as examples of conservative causes – merely saying that none of them has anything to do with the Tea Party movement.  But I like your dad’s philosophy!

As I said, there are countless studies that support the contention that most gays are born, not made, including research done with identical twins separated at birth and raised in different homes. Call it a “gay gene” if you want, but you’d have to have your head in the sand to try and deny it. 

I personally believe that some combination of nature and nurture are at work, which explains why for some their sexuality is fluid. But that’s a small minority and their sexuality is only subject to modest adjustment, not wholesale change. 

It’s the sign of a healthy society that we’re starting to admit that the overwhelming majority of gays and lesbians are born that way and not seduced into it. Like smokers. 

That’s because the people here are insane, lol. Obama could be called the N-word by a famous Repubican.. next day, they’d come here to call Obama a racist. It’s like crazy people clockwork.

As a teabagger at least we know West likes nuts on his ice cream.

Change?
Then Allen West should try to transform himself from the arrogant, militaristic nationalist that he is.
Would a kinder, gentler Allen West be so bad?

West’s superiors in the military found his actions unacceptable.
Condemnation from one’s peers is profound.

One teabagger ice cream cone,vanilla of course, extra nuts please.

Jaynie, I’m sorry you’re so bitter, but there something here you aren’t getting. Being gay is not a choice any more than being straight is a choice. Did you choose to be straight? Of course not, you just are. It’s the same with gays. If the majority of the population found your heterosexual behavior disgusting, would you stop just because of that? I don’t know why this whole thing isn’t a no-brainer by now.

So I was seduced, but a woman in her forties or fifties who falls in love with another woman is just waking up to her inborn trait?  Is that what you’re saying?  Oh, OK.  So I guess the fact that both my parents smoked and all the adults I knew smoked is what caused me to become a smoker, but that type of influence doesn’t happen with people who decide to practice gay sex?

Whatever.  But back to the whole “gay gene” thing.  I’m pro-abortion.  Meaning I think it’s a privacy issue and is nobody else’s  business.  I think women have a right to abortion on demand for any reason they decide they want one.  Do you agree? 

Not a “gene” but in gay men it’s been shown the hypothalamus region of the brain is smaller.  Which is why for some time during the ’90s, Rush Limbaugh used to introduce himself as “having the largest hypothalamus” in something, sorry I don’t remember what.  But what it also showed was he at least lent some credence to the idea of a physical reason for people being gay.

Sorry, one late ambien induced comment and I’m out, really?

There is anger in spades on this site. If posts on this site were flagged for anger, little would be left. BTW, It is hard not to respond to anger with anger. At least I try to use humor. Your problem is with my politics not my angry posts. If I was a Conservative you would not care or be making this comment. This is obvious. I play for the wrong team so to speak.

My post was not even that angry. Jaynie59 has his or her right to express a opinion (I disagreed with much of it, but I am aloud to).

BTW, regarding my “plant” comment, I quit marijuana three years ago, but I did find it mellowed me out and made me less angry.

I am an intense person with an opinion to express. Sorry. I thought that was what this site was for

Not in Florida! Laws against Marijuana are still draconian here.

I do think people go overboard on occasion regarding cigarettes/tobacco. I realize smokers are not “evil”.
Some laws against tobacco use do go to far.

If you knew the definition of sodomy, you would realize 95% of heterosexuals practice it on a regular basis.

So you’re saying that homosexuality can be treated with medication?  I object that that.  I’ve been inundated with all kinds of medical cures for my habit and I don’t want anything to do with any of them.  I like smoking.  I don’t want to quit.  I want my culture back.  I miss my culture.  But my entire way of life has been outlawed now.  I can’t go anywhere in public and be me.  I’d get arrested or fined for being me.  I can’t go to a restaurant.  I can’t even sit in a bar anymore.  Not even a bar.

I don’t want to be cured.  I want my way of life back.  I want people to leave me alone to live my life in peace with other people who are of my culture.  I don’t want to be a recluse in my own home anymore.  But that’s what I’ve become.  Because my behavior has been outlawed.  Oh, if only I had a group willing to fight for my civil rights!

Do you realize you are using negativity and a condescending attitude to complain about my so called negativity?

Interesting. LOL!

Gay people smoke too! Why are gays more to blame than heterosexuals regarding changes in smoking laws?

I only meant to suggest a starting point on scientific theory about homosexuality.  Kinsey may be notorious but, is well known.  I thought it would be foolish to start with the most complicated theory and work backward.  Oh well, back to my book.

I had a feeling you were speaking with the wisdom that  accumulates over time. LOL

For Allen West, “War Hero” Is in Eye of the Beholder
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2010/03/allen_west_military_career_abuse_iraqi_detainee.php
Alien may be a “war criminal.”

She is rather angry today. And condescending.

She is rather angry today. And condescending.

I wish I could introduce you to my mom.  She’s smokes the same brand, despite the emphysema and macular degeneration (blindness) aggravated by it.  She’ll never quit and does’nt want to.  I love her, crazy ole thang.

I have to disagree with you, WTF was that about?

I have to disagree with you, WTF was that about?

Thanks, I just really detest this West guy, he reminds me of a commander I had in the Army.  Like West he was a total misogynist and threatened to send my family home when I asked for leave when my grandmother died.  He also caused 6 of my units scout platoon to get blown up on a range course he developed and laid out.  Idiots cut from the same cloth acting like they went to clown college instead of war college.

Maybe I should’nt say this but, this thread was at it’s most entertaining when it got way off topic.  That’s how they roll, somtimes.

The fact is you can quit smoking but if you like people of the same sex, well, I think it was said best in a movie, “you can’t quit them.”  Being gay is not a disorder that requires a cure, it happens in many types of  mammals and other species. 

I’m not sure what your problem is today but take a break and go outside, get some fresh air, it will do you some good.

I find that true so many times.

Mediaite may not like it, but it’s fun!

Wow, one history lesson better forgotten though, wouldn’t you agree?

I am clueless myself.
I am not a Conservative. I guess this is an issue.

Smoking cigarettes for my late Dad was self medication. It was the same for me when I smoked tobacco,
I believe in free will. People have to quit on their own. It is a touchy subject.

Too funny!

purveyor,

Abortion is not an easy subject.
As every year goes by, it seems to become more difficult to discuss.
My feelings about it are complex. Not a black and white issue to me.
I also realize if a pregnant women wants to end her pregnancy and is determined, it is difficult to stop her.
You would consider me pro choice. I still find it, as you say, one and a half months after conception, to be
“unpleasant”.
This is why I support more effective and easier birth control, including a true “male birth control pill” and easy to obtain morning after pills.
Time will tell what happens legally.
At this point I wish I had a vasectomy myself. May happen in the next year.

I hated this new format at first but now I’m used to it.

When God was dishing out brains this guy was standing in line with a thimble.

Yeah, I supose that why the gay lobby heavily pressured the Psychiatrist’s association to change their findings on the ability of gay lifestyle to change. It is a deviancy -it is immoral and no gotcha phrases like homophobe can cut through those truths. Many have converted to heterosexual lifestyles. That is what they must deny.

A tendency is one thing , demanding we buy and accept gay marriage is another. Love them , pray for them, but I can’t morally accept that which is wrong. Offend them or, offend God -the choice is simple.
And I won’t call them heterophobes or Godaphobes

As a libertarian-oriented conservativce, I don’t think it matters if it is a choice or not.  It is a basic human right.  My own views are that there’s a mix of hereditary and biological factors, and a wide range of the mix of those factors among individuals.  There are those who felt “different” as very small children, and there are adults who were attracted to the same sex for years and later met someone of the same sex who they fell in love with.  Just as religion is a choice, the constitution permits such choices in individual behavior.

I don’t think the “anger” comment was directed at you, but the “ick” poster.  I’m a conservative and think you are just fine, fwiw.

You cleared up an important question for me.

I keep wondering about people who say homosexuality is a choice. I wonder if they know this because they had a hard time making the choice, or are they simply taking someone’s word for it? I give myself as an example of why I was confused. I never even
considered homosexual activity. It simply is not in me. Therefore there
is no option for me. No choice what-so-ever. I extrapolate that those who engage in homosexual activity have no more interest in my preference than I have in theirs, and thus they are not making a choice. 

Now I know that it is the overt action that so upsets people, and that makes it no more sinful than adultery and wonton “normal” sex. I believe the biblical punishments were the same for any sex outside of marriage.

I hear it is rampant in prisons, and that must be because it is the only form of sex available. (No need to explain masturbation. You know what I mean.) I have heard some really old people claiming it was a form of rebellion. That is crazy.

Now we come to legal matters. Is marriage a legal matter? Yes. The states have decreed it so. Even communist governments recognize marriage in civil ceremonies, thus removing all religious aspects from it. Next, we add legal and social incentives to get married, which even include hospital visitation rights.

Society is  changing its view on homosexuality, and I suggest that the social based laws must also change, just as they did for slavery.

I still smoke, though I do want to quit. the biggest mistake I made in that regard was reading a book about the good parts of smoking as well as the bad.  Smokers learn to relax or to psyche up by smoking faster (relaxes) or slower (heightens  something, I for get what). Most of all it can kill hunger pains, which is why people who quit usually gain weight rapidly. It is self-medication, and may be the reason I rarely drink alcohol.

It is only an “ick” factor if you obsess about it. Don’t obsess and you will be fine.

Can you see “neutral principle,” contained within those phrases? In this case, the Court, very much so, got it right and whether of not they applied NP by name, such was the case. I argue that best Court decisions, the most irrefutable and reasoned, contain NP. I am glad you came across this Post and that it “cleared up an important question.”

Some research has indicated that when the fetus is in the womb a chemical difference in the amniotic fluid could cause homosexuality. The difference could be caused by high stress to the mother. We do know that pregnant women are not supposed to smoke, drink, etc because of the damage those things can do.

I believe there is no research that proves sexual preference is a conscious decision, but there is plenty of research proving that sexual attraction is not conscious choice.

I tried to pray the gray away and it worked!

Now I’m bald.

In addition to what purveyor has said, why does everything have to be proven genetically? Are other forms of evidence no longer accpetable?
Is all of human psychology, sociology, and even economics to be boiled down to genetic predetermination?

Wow! You really are a wreck! Must be all that obsessing about gays that did it to you. I’m 61 and healthy as an ox, ‘cuz I don’t sweat the small stuff. Try that.

I will take your word that Kinsey turned out to be a pedophile, but I am reluctant to do so. Maybe you can pinpoint the source of your information?

If you are correct, it makes some sense. You are comfortable in your socially and religiously supported attitude, so you don’t do research. Kinsey (if he did have a problem) does research–valid, scientific research–to find out just how common “diviations” are, and what constitutes “normal” sexual activity, which includes adultery and other things that society lied about not so long ago. 

Not a suitable allegory, in my opinion. Where do they get those kinds of ideas that mess people’s mind up?
  Fisher Capital Management