Devout Christian Mike Huckabee is having a hard time understanding the concept of charity.
————————————————————————–

Then women, gays and Jews must be having a REALLY hard time understanding it!

“Even beyond this point, not even the fact that he completely ignores the fact that the Judeo-Christian god is an equivalent to Allah and that Muslims actually believe in Jesus Christ is the most jarring.”

From a grammar standpoint, you probably should have given this sentence a proofread before publishing.

Yes, I’m besieged each day by e-mails from local mosques asking if anyone wants to worship Christ on Sundays at the mosque.

Isn’t it curious how the Democratic Media taints their coverage to bring condemnation upon Christians and Orthodox Jews for not supporting gay marriage; yet, there is virtual silence over the death penalty conferred on gays through the tenets and practice of Islam?
—————————————————————

Democratic Media, why do you have a double-standard when it comes to covering Muslims?

that Muslims actually believe in Jesus Christ ”

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, as a Prophet- not as God as Christians believe.

pathway said:
“Even beyond this point, not even the fact that he completely ignores the fact that the Judeo-Christian god is an equivalent to Allah and that Muslims actually believe in Jesus Christ is the most jarring.”

From a grammar standpoint, you probably should have given this sentence a proofread before publishing.

Touché. Your wishes are granted– it should make sense now.

The arguement is that a different religion shouldn’t use someone else’s religious space as their own. It violates the principles of the religion’ sacred space.

I went to a synagogue that had a rentable ball room. But if you rented it, you could only serve Kosher food, even if the event was non-religious. Was that wrong?

What’s wrong with saying this is our religious space? That’s his opinion.

Good stuff, Frances. I don’t see how it’s Huckabee’s business to tell others what they should do with their church. It’s not his church.

/imagines DJ Khaled reading all zumpano comments. WE THE BEST

@ zump

who is talking about beck?

perhaps it’s time you get some air. your obsession is showing.

da-wdc said:
I don’t see how it’s Huckabee’s business to tell others what they should do with their church. It’s not his church.

And yet, the President and his wife want to tell us what we can eat and how to live our lives.

I just love your selective outrage, son.

notsofast said:
And yet, the President and his wife want to tell us what we can eat and how to live our lives.
I just love your selective outrage, son.

I’m a she. So, likely not your son. Just saying. And you’re free to be as obese as you like, this is America after all, but I support Michelle Obama’s initiatives to provide better meals to children so that they don’t grow up that way, with all the accompanying health issues and costs.

da-wdc said:
but I support Michelle Obama’s initiatives to provide better meals to children

But it is none of her business right? You don’t see how it’s Michelle’s business to tell others what they should do with their kids, correct? They are not her kids.

notsofast said:
But it is none of her business right? You don’t see how it’s Michelle’s business to tell others what they should do with their kids, correct? They are not her kids.

I don’t think the government should be banning or excessively taxing junk food or anything. But public schools especially, since they’re serving food to kids, should be serving healthy options instead of junk that isn’t good for them. I just don’t understand why anyone would get upset about this. As the percentage of obese people in this country goes up, there are enormous costs to the public associated with this, for medical care in particular. And the government has always had a regulatory role with regards to food production, water, nutrition, etc. It’s not the government’s business to tell a church how to run their church, that’s completely different.

Frances Martel:

First off, Muslims do NOT believe in Jesus Christ, and to put it the way you do is misleading at best.

The Koran recognizes Christ as a prophet only. The recognition of Christ as a prophet and that he existed in not “believing” in Christ.

Further, I note that you don’t refer to any quid pro quo. Know why? Because going into a mosque to pray as a Christian would probably be hazardous to your health.

I really have no problem with letting Muslims pray in a Christian church. It shows the true nature of the. Christian spirit and illustrates clearly the difference between the two religions.

My problem is with the way you play fast and loose with the facts in your article. Do your self a favor – get a copy of the koran and read what they say about Christ – he is the wisest of all the prophets and if he says it is so, then it is so. BUT – they do NOT recognize him as the Son of God. and it doesn’t stop them from killing Christians in Muslim countries worldwide just because they are Christians.

How about a little balance next time?

Mike definitely works for Fox.

“Hey Mike!! we need you to help us whip up another fake controversy with some anti Muslim sentiment.”
“Is there a bonus involved?”
“Only if you can make some really outrageous comparison, that will really be controversial”
“I’m your man.”

They can really get some mileage out of this because now they can get some outraged Muslims to co0me on Hannity or other shows and keep it going.

It’s a good thing there isn’t any important news to tell us about.

Disgusting. As an atheist I often go to churches just for peace and quiet. I should get out because I don’t go in there believing what Huckabee believes? People like him make Christianity look a lot worse.

notsofast said:
But it is none of her business right? You don’t see how it’s Michelle’s business to tell others what they should do with their kids, correct? They are not her kids.

Dolt.

Digressed? Huckabee did get a national profile first and foremost for his anti-obesity initiatives after all, and has publicly supported Michelle Obama on this issue. I don’t recall seeing a lot of conservative backlash against him for doing that.

I feel bad for whichever church(es) decided to be good neighbors to Muslims in their community, and for this, were rewarded by being the subject of national news stories on Fox and Huckabee saying they may as well be showing porn. I wonder how much hate mail they’ll get from Fox viewers.

Good old Christen fascism at its finest.

Your article Francis about Huckabee is about as surprising to me as this one:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49835.html

Yet more intolerance from the right. Not surprising at all.

da-wdc said:
Digressed? Huckabee did get a national profile first and foremost for his anti-obesity initiatives after all, and has publicly supported Michelle Obama on this issue. I don’t recall seeing a lot of conservative backlash against him for doing that. I feel bad for whichever church(es) decided to be good neighbors to Muslims in their community, and for this, were rewarded by being the subject of national news stories on Fox and Huckabee saying they may as well be showing porn. I wonder how much hate mail they’ll get from Fox viewers.

Conservatives tend to frown upon religious tenets calling for the subservience of women, war against infidels, and death to gays and Jews.

If this were Christians, the Hypocritical Left would be wailing from the rafters!

Fear not though, right now millions are watching the implosion of the Democratic Party play out in Wisconsin.

@ A man

How is that fascism again? I don’t think you should use words unless you know what they mean.

____________________________________

To everyone else, if I went to PETA headquarters’ cafeteria, because it was private, with a hamburger… you think they’d be annoyed? What about if I went on a tour of the White House in a “Obama is a traitor” shirt… would they be cool with it? Better yet, would you lend me your livingroom, so I can hold a Tea Party meeting there?

Huck is allowed to have his opinion, just as the Church does. But to pretend like they had some obligation to lend their building to anyone, is nonsense.

A man without a Country said:
Good old Christen fascism at its finest.

Good ole’ Anti-Christian Bigotry!

ImNotBlue said:

“Huck is allowed to have his opinion, just as the Church does. But to pretend like they had some obligation to lend their building to anyone, is nonsense.”

Exactly. A church isn’t public proerty. It’s private property and they are under no obligation to let anyone use that property.

The fact that they chose to do so reflects well on them in this case. Instead of criticizing them Huckleberry should have pointed at them with pride.

Harry Flashman said:
First off, Muslims do NOT believe in Jesus Christ, and to put it the way you do is misleading at best.

The Koran recognizes Christ as a prophet only. The recognition of Christ as a prophet and that he existed in not “believing” in Christ.

I always thought the phrase “Believing in Jesus” was grammatically incorrect, when used to indicate accepting JC as the only Son of God. Technically, it can mean simply believing Jesus existed , especially since some people believe he didn’t..

What happened to “Are you saved” that I used to hear all the time?

Here is some biblical-based hate for followers of religions other than Christianity:

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

@ Same

Thanks buddy… Your Google skills are impressive.

Although, completely unrealated to anything relevant. But “copy/paste” doesn’t discriminate between valuable and not.

same2u is using the catch all that liberals use in order to compare Christianity to Islam, or to discredit Christianity in general.

Here’s a small sticking point in that line of thinking……

That’s from the old testament and was written thousands of years before Christ was born. It isn’t Christianity in the strictest sense of the word.

Point two: Christ taught forgiveness and love, not stoning people to death, THAT’S Christianity. No believer in Christ has stoned anyone to death.

I’ve seen this type of argument over and over again from those who want to tear down anything related to Christianity. As ususal, it comes from the uninformed.

Weak and silly argument.

ImNotBlue said:
@ Same

Thanks buddy… Your Google skills are impressive.

Although, completely unrealated to anything relevant. But “copy/paste” doesn’t discriminate between valuable and not.

I have problem with people who follow religious texts that promote murder just as Huckabee does.

@ Same

So you are under the impression that stuff happens currently?

Oh, and if that was true, shouldn’t you have stronger words against Islam… whicheven in today’s time, still has groups that practice “honor killings?”

Next thing you know they will be holding bingo events at the churches.

There is only one God. I bet he/she isn’t as ticked off as Mike.

ImNotBlue said:
shouldn’t you have stronger words against Islam

There are already plenty of people to do that in this country. My job is to provide context and historical perspective to those people who bury their heads in the sand.

Harry Flashman said:
That’s from the old testament and was written thousands of years before Christ was born. It isn’t Christianity in the strictest sense of the word.

MAt 5 Jesus speaking
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Harry Flashman said:
No believer in Christ has stoned anyone to death.

Bombed the hell out of em, yes, but not stoned em. We win!

Good luck running for president of a multi-cultural nation, Mike. How can he even believe that he has the right to tell people where they can and can’t worship or with whom they can worship THEIR god? Unfortunately for Gov Huckabee, his stature in his denomination doesn’t grant him any power over the first amendment.

What a pompous jerk.

Cosmos Dan said:

“Bombed the hell out of em, yes, but not stoned em. We win!”

So, the people doing the bombing were doing the bombing in the name of Christ?

Come on, man. You can do better than that.

@ Same

So you don’t have to say anything, because “someone else will do it?” That means you either have a more personal reason to attack Christianity, don’t know what you’re talking about, or are really really lazy.

This is somewhat typical for the angry left… attacking Christianity is a priority. Similar criticism for other religions, even if their bahvior is much worse… meh. How dishonest.

@ Scrub

So you don’t think Huck should be allowed to give his opinion, or restrict someone from praying in “his” space? Really?

So does that mean that YOU shouldn’t give your opinion either, and would have nothing to say if some Born Agains wanted to meet in your kitchen? Really?

ImNotBlue said:
How dishonest

Yeah, as Fox New’s Number one apologist over the pas few years, you are the beacon of truth.

Scrub said:
Good luck running for president of a multi-cultural nation, Mike. How can he even believe that he has the right to tell people where they can and can’t worship or with whom they can worship THEIR god? Unfortunately for Gov Huckabee, his stature in his denomination doesn’t grant him any power over the first amendment.

What a pompous jerk.

I’m not convinced Huckabee believes what he said, but it did surprise me, if he’s even semi serious about a presidential run.

It’s pathetic that an atheist like me knows more about both Christianity and Islam than Martel. Hey, Frances, find a Muslim and ask them to tell you all about Jesus Christ in Islam. They don’t believe in Him. Sure, He’s mentioned along with Moses, but as a lesser Prophet to Mohamed. He is not considered divine in Islam. He was just an ordinary man like Mohamed. Also, ask a Muslim if Christians and Jews worship the same God they do.

Newsjunky said:
Yet more intolerance from the right. Not surprising at all.

So in your line of thinking, it would be ok for these churches to help out their neighbors and rent the building out for KKK meetings or maybe athiests conventions?? Just trying to understand HOW far you think the left tolerance should go…….

Beyond that shallow blog-bait, he completely ignores the fact that the Judeo-Christian god is an equivalent to Allah and that Muslims actually believe in Jesus Christ.

Whole lotta ignorance in that sentence!

Muslims DO NOT believe in the Jesus of Christianity. To Muslims, Jesus is nothing but one of a group of other prophets. Muslims only acknowledge the existence of Jesus while at the same time demeaning who he was in the eyes of the world’s Christians. Also, Christians are treated like second class citizens in the Muslim world and at times they were forced to pay a tax called Jizya to the Muslims as protection money. At the present time Christians are being slaughtered in every single Muslim country!

As for there being some kind of equivalence between the God of Christianity and the God of Islam, try to wrap your head around the fact that in Islam murdering someone in the name of their God grants them a special place in heaven, while in Christianity turning the other cheek and and effectively letting yourself be slaughtered by your enemies grants you a special place in heaven.

Don’t sound like the same two Gods to me. One sounds like the true God of love, while the other sounds like the deceiver, which btw, at one point Muhammad even believed he was being deceived by Satan and contemplated suicide. Imagine that.

Not only does Huckabee demonstrate his unfamiliarity with the Islamic faith, he contradicts himself.

In the clip, he spends a lot of time talking about how people have given and supported their local church, then he apparently wants to override their choice from his pulpit in New York.

Perhaps the best example of these being local decisions is that the second church pictured is a United Methodist. All Methodist churches are owned by their larger organization and if you read the explanation written by the pastor of the seemingly unaffiliated, independent Heartsong church, you’d see that he’s responding to criticism leveled by a United Methodist preacher, so the decision to loan the second church’s facilities was apparently not done at the Conference level.

Maybe Mikey hasn’t heard about Thursday night bingo?

Harry Flashman said:
So, the people doing the bombing were doing the bombing in the name of Christ?

What do you suppose the relatives of the dead thought, when they were being blown to hell by a predominantly Christian nation led by a professed Christian?

What name did we do it under?

@ Same

Great point! Can’t defend, so give me a personal attack.

Of course, I’d love to see an example of my “dishonesty,” but we both know you’ve got none… so we can skip that part, I guess.

@ Mag

So because the locals accept it, Huck or anyone else is in no position to disagree?

What about Fred Phelps’ gang? They seem to like their hateful “Church.” So does that mean we should disagree, or are in no position to comment?

I don’t think your analysis makes a lot of sense.

Oh STFU you whiny hypocrite.. You throw out the the “dishonest” insult for people who voice their personal opinion just about every time you are on this board. And then you cry like a baby when people throw back at you.

@ Same

Uh-oh… someone appears to be getting a little frustrated. It’s okay… you got caught making stuff up, just take your lumps and move on. No need for a tantrum.

Oh, and I said you were dishonest for applying an overt double standard. That IS dishonest. See?

CosmosDan said:
MAt 5 Jesus speaking
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

That’s a great piece of scripture, CozDan. But if you had any idea what it meant, you wouldn’t have posted it as your argument.

The scripture’s KEY phrase is “until everything is accomplished.” That refers to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and subsequent resurrection defeating death forever. That IS the fulfillment of the law. If He hadn’t arose from the dead, we would still all be subject to Old Testament law.

ImNotBlue said:
So because the locals accept it, Huck or anyone else is in no position to disagree?

Huckabee is certainly free to disagree. My point was though he pays lip service to local church autonomy in the beginning, he sprinkles his opinion with phrases like “dedicated and paid for by people”, “people who donated, paid and sacrificed for that facility” and similar things, which implies that those who built, dedicated, donated, paid and sacrificed for the facility weren’t involved in the decision.

Davo said:
The scripture’s KEY phrase is “until everything is accomplished.” That refers to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and subsequent resurrection defeating death forever. That IS the fulfillment of the law. If He hadn’t arose from the dead, we would still all be subject to Old Testament law.

Preachers spoon out BS like that so they can excuse the majority of the hate in the Bible.

The following is some of verses which show that the Old Testament is NOT TO BE IGNORED!

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness…” (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.(Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

“Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.” (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)

CosmosDan said:
I’m not convinced Huckabee believes what he said, but it did surprise me, if he’s even semi serious about a presidential run.

Its a wide open field. Whoever gets that tea party block may just prevail.

Davo said:
That’s a great piece of scripture, CozDan. But if you had any idea what it meant, you wouldn’t have posted it as your argument.

The scripture’s KEY phrase is “until everything is accomplished.” That refers to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and subsequent resurrection defeating death forever. That IS the fulfillment of the law. If He hadn’t arose from the dead, we would still all be subject to Old Testament law.

You sure about that? What about the “until heaven and earth disappear”
Could “everything is accomplished” mean the end of time?

@ Mag

Well, that certainly possible. My family and I left our synagogue because they started getting too political. When they brought in Ariana Huffington to speak, we knew they weren’t using out membership dues in a way we liked. Stuff like that happens all the time.

Davo said:
If He hadn’t arose from the dead, we would still all be subject to Old Testament law.

So your view is that it was possible for Jesus to not rise from the dead? He could have failed?

CosmosDan said:
You sure about that? What about the “until heaven and earth disappear”
Could “everything is accomplished” mean the end of time?

From one Bible commentary

This fulfillment referred to Jesus’ life, death, resurrection, second coming, judgment, and eternal reign, which are, in some sense, incipient in the Old Testament.

@ Scrub
So you don’t think Huck should be allowed to give his opinion, or restrict someone from praying in “his” space? Really?
So does that mean that YOU shouldn’t give your opinion either, and would have nothing to say if some Born Agains wanted to meet in your kitchen? Really?

—–
Of course he can give his opinion, the matter is whether or not he SHOULD give his opinion. Some idiot from the middle of nowhere COULD spout off support for Hitler or for Stalin or could show support for any number of atrocities but does that mean they SHOULD? No.

Huckabee is a former Gov, TV show presenter, Baptist Minister and hopeful presidential candidate for Republican Party. He COULD say whatever he wants to but SHOULD he? No. He can restrict Muslims from praying in his church, he could restrict them from his home and could talk about them however he wants, that’s him practicing his right to free speech. But he thinks that because he’s a Baptist minister he has some authority to tell OTHER churches that the way they conduct their services is somehow anti-Christian, comparing all Muslims to adulterers.

He also goes on to say “a muslim group that says that Jesus Christ…are a bunch of infidels” which simply shows a gross misunderstanding of the Muslim faith. Isa (Jesus) is the 3rd most quoted individual (behind Allah and Mohammad) in the Qu’ran. If a Muslim and Saudi Arabia called Isa an infidel they’d be arrested for blaspheming… although the theocratic rule governing Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with American Muslims on American soil in AMERICAN churches. The way AMERICANS conduct themselves in private religious establishments is protected under the first amendment, something that the Baptist minister should be very familiar with. I’m sure that many people don’t agree with the Baptist denomination of Christianity; there are some 16 million Southern Baptists in the US out of over 300 million people in total. For Huckabee to suggest that he is more able or more qualified to give the opinions of Jesus Christ than anyone else is, as I stated before, pompous and arrogant.

For all this talk Huckabee does on his TV show about having tolerance and coming together to help Americans, it’s irresponsible of him to say these things. As someone who is (apparently) looking at a presidential run it’s frankly stupid of him. He might win A congressional seat with that type of separatist thinking but there’s no way he’s going to win the votes of millions of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus nor atheists for president. Nor should he.

CosmosDan said:
You sure about that? What about the “until heaven and earth disappear”
Could “everything is accomplished” mean the end of time?

I showed you the answer to that already. If “until everything is accomplished” meant anything OTHER than Jesus’s death and resurrection, then His death and resurrection meant nothing……………..we would still have to “earn” our salvation with a perfect life. No, Christians accept Jesus as he said………………the fulfillment of the law.

@ImNotBlue: If individual members of the congregation and large donors had reached out to Rev. Huckabee for assistance, then it may be appropriate for him to speak on their behalf.

But, a quick Google hasn’t shown me any criticism from those involved with the individual churches, rather though USA Today mentions a talk radio host in their article from back in Sept (right after the single Heartsong service), the modern criticism seems to have started with a Pat Robertson/CBN reaction to the January article in “Christianity Today”.

IOW: I’m finding a lot more national leaders than local complaints.

da-wdc said:
Good stuff, Frances. I don’t see how it’s Huckabee’s business to tell others what they should do with their church. It’s not his church.

BlueBunny said:
Shut up you stupid moron.It was non of Bushes wife’s business to help kids to read either.

No, son- I think it is YOU who needs to shut his face.

fallenchicken said:
Dolt.

LOL

So Michelle should be telling families how to feed their kids?

LMAO

Yeah, son, no one ever thought of telling kids what they should eat or how they should run their lives until the Obama’s came along!

have you ever heard of parents?

LMAO

@ Mag & Scrub

The gist of your comments is basically the same… who does Huck think he is giving his opinion about these folks. And I think that’s wrong. Huck can give his opinion, asked for or volunteered, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

A man without a Country said:
Good old Christen fascism at its finest.

Newsjunky said:
Yet more intolerance from the right. Not surprising at all.

Yes, I’m sure these libs also wonder why won’t the churches let the atheists speak in the church?

LOL

You libs are priceless.

If a Christian tried to hold a Christian service in a mosque he would be killed.

A man without a Country said:
Good old Christen fascism at its finest.

You are a good old lib without a brain, son.

same2u said:
Here is some biblical-based hate for followers of religions other than Christianity:

Son, let’s talk about the hate that Muslims spread today- not what was written over 2000 years ago.

Why won’t union halls allow attorneys to rent their halls to discuss how to de-certify unions?

Talk about Fascism.

@ImNotBlue: I agree that he’s entitled to his opinion and he has a forum from which he can express it. My objection was to all the phrasing that made it seem like the local congregates and the church founders had complained.

Sure, Mike may feel one way, but Rev. Stone and the members of his church don’t have to feel the same.

@ Mag

I think that’s obvious… afterall, they didn’t do what Huck thought they should.

ImNotBlue said:
@ Mag & Scrub

The gist of your comments is basically the same… who does Huck think he is giving his opinion about these folks. And I think that’s wrong. Huck can give his opinion, asked for or volunteered, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

The act of stating one’s opinion is different to the ramifications of that opinion. Time and time again the Supreme Court has ruled that there are exceptions to the first amendment. While nothing that Huckabee has said breaches it in any way, the fact still stands that subversive and irresponsible language is something that should be shared in confidence amongst like-minded people, which is something absolutely protected by the first amendment. But in this clip Huckabee is defining the ROLE of churches as “facilities dedicated to the worship of Jesus Christ”. That could be the role of HIS church or the mission of HIS faith but he shouldn’t be telling other people, whether as an expert, a minister or as a friend in confidence that another church, which may or may not be entirely dedicated to the worship of Jesus Christ (which could offer multi-faith services) that they’re somehow likened to an adult movie theater.

In all fairness, he states that he doesn’t mean it offensively and specifically outlines that he’s not familiarizing the Qu’ran to pornography but as soon as he begins to define and outline the role of a private church he’s stepping over the bounds of HIS role as American citizen. He can criticize all he wants but when you’re a PUBLIC figure running for PUBLIC office you must respect all views and all faiths. If a church wants to allow Muslims to come and worship god (whether they call him Allah, Jesus, Isa, Buddha, Glenn Beck or other) then they can do it and they’re protected under the full force of the law.

Huckabee is in a losing argument here and all I’m saying is that he shouldn’t have said it because he’s going to redact his statements or give a correction/clarification of some sort. I don’t mean that he’s being malicious or indignant but he’s being, as I first stated, pompous and arrogant.

The level of hate and vitriol coming from so called Christians is enough to make Jesus roll over in his grave. Why do so called Christians cause so much pain and suffering? Hmmmmm?

ImNotBlue said:
@ Mag

I think that’s obvious… afterall, they didn’t do what Huck thought they should.

We are not here discuss whether people have the legal right to voice their opinion. We are here to discuss whether we agree with their opinions and whether they are appropriate and whether they are well-founded.

You do understand that DA?

And you predictably are here to apologize for their despicable comments.

notsofast said:
LOL So Michelle should be telling families how to feed their kids? LMAO Yeah, son, no one ever thought of telling kids what they should eat or how they should run their lives until the Obama’s came along! have you ever heard of parents? LMAO

They were too busy telling them to just say no. OOOOOOHHHHHHH, BBBUUUUUURRRRRNNNNNN!!!

jim bronson 990cc said:
They were too busy telling them to just say no. OOOOOOHHHHHHH, BBBUUUUUURRRRRNNNNNN!!!

The more you speak, the dumber you are.

Garth said:
Why do so called Christians cause so much pain and suffering? Hmmmmm?

It must be all that be-heading- oh, that’s YOUR guys.

Garth said:
The level of hate and vitriol coming from so called Christians is enough to make Jesus roll over in his grave.

Why won’t union halls allow attorneys to rent their halls to discuss how to de-certify unions?

Answer it, son.

Mike do you have any Muslim friends? Mike have you ever invited a Muslim to worship with you and your family? If you do have Muslim friends and they accepted your invitation, would you expect them to pray in the foyer or maybe on the back patio? If you asked one of them to come spend a weekend with you and your family, would you not allow them to enjoy your family worship with you? How about singing your evening hymns around the fireplace.

I can tell you if I was invited to spend time with a Muslim family and I pray and worship, they probably would not make me stay in the garage or worship outside. For the most part they are respecters of people, especially those who lift their honor’s to God/Allah/Jehovah or whatever name we affix. I think your anger maybe displaced because for the simple reason if others wanted to hate your church and your worship, the Muslim’s might be the one’s who would be the first to defend you. Remove your blinders because the view of our world is changing. Something I believe God intended from the beginning.

notsofast said:
It must be all that be-heading- oh, that’s YOUR guys.

When you think of the death and destruction caused by people who call themselves Christian, it would make the Beloved Mary vomit.

Davo said:
I showed you the answer to that already. If “until everything is accomplished” meant anything OTHER than Jesus’s death and resurrection, then His death and resurrection meant nothing……………..we would still have to “earn” our salvation with a perfect life. No, Christians accept Jesus as he said………………the fulfillment of the law.

And I showed you a Christian commentary that interprets it differently. Of course we know Christians don’t agree on interpretation, so your personal interpretation is hardly authoritative

Just out of curiosity though, are you claiming heaven and earth passed away when Jesus rose again?

@ Scrub

I totally disagree. His comments weren’t dangerous, they we’re “violent,” they were the opinions of a former religious leader about the conduct of another Church. There is no need to fear or get so worked up over them. Were they any more “offensive” than someone saying “God doesn’t exist,” or “religion is a lie”?

I just don’t see the problem.

@ Same

“DA”? District Attorney? Douglas Adams? Dental Assistant?

Does it bother you to claim “predictability,” when yet again, you’re taking the same position you always take? Furthermore, clearly you have not read the full lenth of my conversation, so you’re off base again.

But tell me, what made his comment “dispicable?” Would you allow the Tea Party to meet in your livingroom… or would that be a problem for you?

And furthermore………………….

If you look in the Book of Revelation (don’t know exact verse), John describes how the people ‘fell on their face and worshipped God’. From my recollection the only denomination that currently does that as a normal everyday practice………………………you guessed it……………….the Muslim’s.

Garth said:
When you think of the death and destruction caused by people who call themselves Christian, it would make the Beloved Mary vomit.

Son, this is 2011- not 1000-1300.

Ge t out of the past, son.

Garth said:
.

Why won’t union halls allow attorneys to rent their halls to discuss how to de-certify unions?

Answer it, son.

Garth said:
When you think of the death and destruction caused by people who call themselves Christian, it would make the Beloved Mary vomit.

Name a person who has flown a passenger jet into a building killing all passengers and many in the building in the name of Christ?

I’ll wait

CosmosDan said:
And I showed you a Christian commentary that interprets it differently.

Nope…………you DIDN’T. You posted a “Bible” commentary by no one you cared to credit who claimed it as a Christian perspective.

notsofast said:
Name a person who has flown a passenger jet into a building killing all passengers and many in the building in the name of Christ?

I’ll wait

When you think of the murders and the rapes caused by people who call themselves Christians, it must number in the millions.

ImNotBlue said:
@ Scrub
I totally disagree. His comments weren’t dangerous, they we’re “violent,” they were the opinions of a former religious leader about the conduct of another Church. There is no need to fear or get so worked up over them. Were they any more “offensive” than someone saying “God doesn’t exist,” or “religion is a lie”?
I just don’t see the problem.

I’m not arguing that what he said falls under the exceptions to free speech, I stated several times that he had the right to say what he did and there was obviously no violent intentions incited.

However, as a former religious leader and prominent political figure, he has more responsibility than private citizens sharing our opinions whether at home or on these forums. We all willingly come on this website and share our opinions which is fine, we all understand that there are people with opposing views and we are forfeiting our rights to not be offended. Huckabee went on television and was introduced as “Fmr. Gov. of Arkansas”, not as “friendly neighbor from next door” and it’s quite clear that everyone involved in the presentation was aware of who Huckabee was and his stature as a Baptist minister. This means that he has more responsibility to promote civility than someone who IS simply stating their views at their own kitchen table. Remember, yelling “Fire!” is only an exception to free speech when you’re in a crowded venue, otherwise there’s no problem in saying it.

I’m here discussing the politics of this.
COULD Huckabee have said these things? Yes.
SHOULD Huckabee have said these things? No.

This is a clear example of why blurring the line between OPINION and NEWS is dangerous.

@ Scrub

I fail to see how his comments were equivalent to shouting “fire.”

ImNotBlue said:
@ Scrub
I fail to see how his comments were equivalent to shouting “fire.”

I’m not arguing that what he said falls under the exceptions to free speech, I stated several times that he had the right to say what he did and there was obviously no violent intentions incited.

I’m not arguing that what he said falls under the exceptions to free speech, I stated several times that he had the right to say what he did and there was obviously no violent intentions incited.

I’m not arguing that what he said falls under the exceptions to free speech, I stated several times that he had the right to say what he did and there was obviously no violent intentions incited.

Just to make sure you read that part.

You asked me; “Were they any more “offensive” than someone saying “God doesn’t exist,” or “religion is a lie”?” Both of those statements are OPINIONS.

Mike Huckabee is Southern BAPTIST minister. The church in question is a PROTESTANT church. Mike Huckabee, a religious figure and PUBLIC SERVANT was giving his OPINION as to the ROLE of the ANOTHER religious establishment, even though the church in question is protected under the FIRST AMENDMENT.
Make sure to emphasize that which is in caps.
vvvvvvvvvvv
I’m here discussing the ==> POLITICS <== of this.
^^^^^^^^^^
COULD Huckabee have said these things? Yes.
SHOULD Huckabee have said these things? No.

This is a clear example of why blurring the line between OPINION and NEWS is dangerous.

In Islamic countries…they are burning down churches, and in other Islamic countries they don’t even allow Christians to practice their own religion.

Instead of giving their churches over to Muslims…why not try teaching the gospel to them.

Davo said:
Nope…………you DIDN’T. You posted a “Bible” commentary by no one you cared to credit who claimed it as a Christian perspective.

And all you posted was your personal interpretation. You also managed to avoid the heaven and earth question again.
Here’s John Gill’s exposition of the Bible
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/matthew-5-18.html
“The design of Christ, in conformity to the language of the Jews, is to declare, that no part of the law, not one of the least commandments in it, as he explains himself in the next verse, should be unaccomplished; but all should be fulfilled before “heaven and earth pass” away, as they will, with a great noise and fervent heat, as to their present form and condition”
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/matthew/5.html
(v. 18); “Verily I say unto you, I, the Amen, the faithful Witness, solemnly declare it, that till heaven and earth pass, when time shall be no more, and the unchangeable state of recompences shall supersede all laws
the first one I posted was from
http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/
written by Dr Bob Utley, a long time Baptist teacher

I’m well aware that Christian interpretations vary. Christian’s don’t agree on the scripture , and neither do Muslim’s As far as your criticism, and interpretation having any real final authority, it just doesn’t. I hope we’re clear on that now.

Latin2 said:
In Islamic countries…they are burning down churches, and in other Islamic countries they don’t even allow Christians to practice their own religion.

Instead of giving their churches over to Muslims…why not try teaching the gospel to them.

As is usual, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about as you are a total dumb shit.

ChickaBOOMer: What The Huck? The Gospel According To Mike Huckabee.
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-huck-gospel-according-to-mike.html

CosmosDan said:
I’m well aware that Christian interpretations vary. Christian’s don’t agree on the scripture , and neither do Muslim’s As far as your criticism, and interpretation having any real final authority, it just doesn’t. I hope we’re clear on that now.

It doesn’t appear that you are clear on anything. You have such trouble comprehending that Jesus’s victory over death IS the fulfillment and accomplishment of the law your quotes refer to. I suspect you have no concept of redemption by the blood of Christ, and his sacrifice providing our safe passage into the Kingdom. To agree with your view, one would have to think himself able to “obey” his way into perfection and into the Kingdom of God, thereby rendering Jesus moot. You misunderstand Christianity and the very source you supplied.

Garth said:
As is usual, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about as you are a total dumb shit.

lol…you just proved that YOU are a dumb POS because you don’t even know what is going on in the news. You are just another dumb POS Liberals who has no clue what is going on in the world….lol

Thanks for proving you are ONE dumb POS…lol

;)

@ Scrub

So you, and again obnoxiously “correct” me if I get this wrong, you think the problem with this is that Huck is a former (and maybe future) politician?

And I’m still unclear as to what you think he said that was so bad… either as a man, a journalist, or a politician.

Speaking of Islam, according to Islamic history the Prophet Muhammad was possessed by Satan and put Satanic verses into the Quran and later had to take them out. When Muhammad was older a magician put a spell on Muhammad controlling him for a year to six months making him crazy. The majority of Muslims don’t know this, I wonder what they would think if they did?

So why would Christians allow the teachings of a man who was possessed by Satan and black magic in their church?

That would go against the teachings of Christianity.

Latin2 said:
lol…you just proved that YOU are a dumb POS because you don’t even know what is going on in the news. You are just another dumb POS Liberals who has no clue what is going on in the world….lol
Thanks for proving you are ONE dumb POS…lol
;)

Col. 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice,
blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another,
seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the
image of him that created him.”

Didn’t you just say we should give the gospel to Muslims so that they may know it and better their lives? Such vulgar language from such an ardent believer.

ImNotBlue said:
@ Scrub
So you, and again obnoxiously “correct” me if I get this wrong, you think the problem with this is that Huck is a former (and maybe future) politician?
And I’m still unclear as to what you think he said that was so bad… either as a man, a journalist, or a politician.

In this particular case I’m more concerned that he is a religious figure. Listen to the clip again, this is what is said right off the bat;
Presenter: “Is this counter-run against everything these churches stand for?”
Huckabee: “You know, as much as I respect the autonomy of each local church, you just got to wonder; “what are they thinking?”"
This is where it’d be important to remember that Huckabee completed a Bachelor’s degree in Religion before going onto Seminary, implying that he should know a bit about Christianity. What I stated earlier what that this particular church is a Protestant denomination, Mike Huckabee follows the Southern Baptist denomination.

He goes on to say;
“If the purpose of a church is to push forth the gospel of Jesus Christ”
Webster’s defines a church as; “A building for public worship, esp. Christian worship”

Huckabee is completely within his rights to say that the purpose of HIS church is to push forth the gospel of Jesus Christ but in saying this he is essentially defining the ROLE (as I explained earlier) of each OTHER denomination as being the same as his church. Like he’s plain old, vanilla Christian and therefore everyone else is as well. I was personally raised Catholic when I was younger and have attended services in many other churches, including having been in mosques and temples as well. The function of a church is to be decided by whomever established the church. The leader of this particular church that Huckabee is railing against is obviously perfectly alright with having Muslims worship god (note the lowercase ‘g’) in the public house of worship.

What I then went on to say was that, as a politician, it’s stupid (i.e. not illegal but severely misguided) of him to tell people, many of whom he would have to win the votes of to assume office, that their religion should essentially be like HIS religion. That’s not religious freedom, that’s saying “you’re either with me or against me”. I also said that I know he stated that he understood the autonomy of each church and that, as I repeated several times, he did NOT mean to incite any violence nor hatred.

Huckabee then goes on to say;
“Then you have a Muslim group that says that Jesus Christ and all the people who follow him are a bunch of infidels who should be, essentially, obliterated”

This is where I begin to lose all respect for him and what he said. This is a false statement. As many people have pointed out on this website already (including myself) Jesus (Isa) is a prophet according to the Qu’ran. For a “Muslim group” to say “Jesus should be, essentially, obliterated” would be blasphemy by THEIR religion. Mike Huckabee is NOT a Muslim scholar and clearly needs to learn a little more about their faith. He’s using his stature as a Baptist minister and his degree in Religion as a way to confuse the audience of the TV program who aren’t obligated to know these details when they’re watching their NEWS program. NEWS. When he opens his mouth he is RESPONSIBLE to give factual statements unless he states that it is his OPINION. He does not state that it’s his opinion and is therefore lying to the audience. To knowingly lie is called slander and is an exception to the first amendment. I didn’t mention this before in my statements because I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that it may possibly have slipped out or that he was confused and wasn’t knowingly slandering Islam.

My “problem”, I suppose, is that he is pretending like he can either wear his minster hat, his politician hat, his private citizen hat, his man hat, his journalist hat and remove the others. He wears them ALL at the same time. Because he is a public servant who has held office and because he has his own TV show (coincidentally on the same network) he has the responsibility to get his facts right before he begins talking.

I didn’t think I’d be talking so much about first amendment rights, I was talking about politics. Politics. I think that it was a stupid political move for Huckabee to talk about this publicly because, if he plans on running for president or any other PUBLIC office, he will need to retract his statements and apologize. Apologizing isn’t something that politicians ever want to do because it makes them look bad. Politics is about posturing and presentation and all I was trying to say was that Huckabee made a VERY POOR political decision, not that he was breaking the law.

Wake up, America. You want Muslims praying on the streets? That’s what’s happening in France. Give the Muslims and inch and they’ll take a country.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

Eat another squirrel, Homer.

It will work wonders for that nice by-pass you are carrying around.

Latin2 said:
In Islamic countries…they are burning down churches, and in other Islamic countries they don’t even allow Christians to practice their own religion.

Instead of giving their churches over to Muslims…why not try teaching the gospel to them.

And you are doing exactly squat in your Cheeto stained underwear, Rick.

How about you post your genocidal rants again?

Davo said:
It doesn’t appear that you are clear on anything. You have such trouble comprehending that Jesus’s victory over death IS the fulfillment and accomplishment of the law your quotes refer to

I’m not having any trouble comprehending anything. I even have reading comprehension that I use to understand the commentaries I posted. It’s there in plain English despite your denial. The fact that it contradicts what you’re saying is not my problem. It doesn’t surprise me at all to find contradictions like this in Christian doctrine.

Davo said:
I suspect you have no concept of redemption by the blood of Christ, and his sacrifice providing our safe passage into the Kingdom. To agree with your view, one would have to think himself able to “obey” his way into perfection and into the Kingdom of God, thereby rendering Jesus moot. You misunderstand Christianity and the very source you supplied.

Pious arrogance doesn’t impress me in the least. I have a pretty good grasp on Christian doctrine which is why this kind of contradiction doesn’t surprise me in the least. I’ve had a hundred conversations about the scriptures and quite a few of them end up with someone having to ignore or explain away contradictions just like this one. Believe what you like, but it’s clear that passage containing “until heaven and earth disappear” which you have avoided addressing, can easily refer to the end of time, just as some Christians have written in the commentaries I provided.

greg454 said:
Wake up, America. You want Muslims praying on the streets? That’s what’s happening in France. Give the Muslims and inch and they’ll take a country.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

Yeah, freedom of religion is just a theory , like evolution. It;s not real.

Mr Rich Man Mike, churches gots to pay the rent too. (can I get a chorus of Rent Is Too Damn High?)

I doubt Mr Rich Man Mike’s church has any problem paying its bills.

Judge not, Mr Rich Man Mike, lest ye be judged.

The difference is the actions of Jesus in the Bible compared to Muhammad in the hadiths and Quran and sirats.

Muhammad told his followers to LIE to get close to kill those who insulted him.

Muhammad told his followers that they could RAPE female prisoners.

Muhammad said you could BEAT your wife.

Muhammad told his followers to KILL Jews and atheists and fight Christians.

Muhammad told his followers if you leave Islam you had to be KILLED.

…and much, much more.

Now compare that to the actions of Jesus in the Bible…and you will see there is NO comparison.

Muhammad said you can have sex with your daughter if she is from an affair you had.

Muhammad called black people names.

Muhammad was a slave owner and slave trader.

Muhammad had his men torture a man so he could tell them where his tribe hid their treasure.

Muhammad said that flly’s wings in your food can cure any illness.

Muhammad said that a woman cannot divorce a man unless her husband gives her permission.

Muhammad said that Satan lives in your nose.

Muhammad said the majority of people in Hell ARE WOMEN…and they are there because they DISOBEYED their men.

…now compare Muhammad to Jesus.

CosmosDan said:
It doesn’t surprise me at all to find contradictions like this in Christian doctrine.

There’s only a “contradiction” to someone who doesn’t understand the fundamental truth that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law “until the end of time” when “law” is no longer necessary. Nothing you posted contradicts this, so I didn’t refuse to address it.

You did, however, quote then disregard the crucial truth I posted of. If you can’t answer it, then I implore you to reconsider your view and let the light of truth into your darkness. Here it is again:

“I suspect you have no concept of redemption by the blood of Christ, and his sacrifice providing our safe passage into the Kingdom. To agree with your view, one would have to think himself able to “obey” his way into perfection and into the Kingdom of God, thereby rendering Jesus moot.”

What then was Jesus’ purpose on Earth, if not to fulfill the law on our behalf? I just love it when non-believers instruct Christians on what we’re supposed to believe. Now THAT, Coz, is ARROGANCE.

Latin2 said:
…now compare Muhammad to Jesus.

Didn’t Jesus committ suicide?

Kudos, King. Even when using the Bovine name, you’re still the same mean, bitter, demented old man.

“Yeah, freedom of religion is just a theory , like evolution. It;s not real.”

—Oh, so you like religion now? Yet when it comes to under God in the pledge of allegiance, nativity scenes in public property, school choirs singing Ave Maria, or any expression of the popular religion, you don’t like it so much, do you?

Progressives like you would never tolerate Christianity being a mandatory course in college, yet you people don’t mind when a college forces the students to learn about Islam.

Now listen to me, Muslim-lover, Islam will destroy this country just like it’s destroying Europe. Islam is anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-capitalism, anti-free speech, anti-religion, anti-compromise. Why is it that South Park can make a cartoon where the Virgin Mary bleeds out of her vagina without the Christians going crazy yet they can’t show Mohammed without receiving death threats?

There’s no “love the sinner” in Islam, to them you either convert or you die. Freedom of religion doesn’t mean I have to accommodate your religion. Satanism is a religion, yet do you think Bloomberg would have allowed a Satanic church three blocks away from the world trade center? Santeria is also a religion which sacrifices animals, you think the American people would tolerate animal sacrifices on Times Square?

Do you think criticism of Islam should be illegal? In Austria it’s become illegal to say that Mohammed was a pedophile, even if he married a 7 year old.
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/

So stop being such a Muslim-lover, I want all the Muslims to know the following about America. 1. We love beer. 2. We love pork. 3. We love porn. 4. We love politically incorrect speech. 5. We were founded by Christians and do not want taxpayer-funded celebrations of Islam. That is America, this is who we are, and any Muslim that wants to change our nature is not welcomed here.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

So stop being such a Muslim-lover, I want all the Muslims to know the following about America. 1. We love beer. 2. We love pork. 3. We love porn. 4. We love politically incorrect speech. 5. We were founded by Christians and do not want taxpayer-funded celebrations of Islam. That is America, this is who we are, and any Muslim that wants to change our nature is not welcomed here.

God Bless You, Patriot. That’s what this country is all about! Git’er done!

Anuther fine , well-balanced Christyun patriot!

notsofast said:
The more you speak, the dumber you are.

Posting is not speaking. You torch yourself so often…

Davo said:
There’s only a “contradiction” to someone who doesn’t understand the fundamental truth that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law “until the end of time” when “law” is no longer necessary. Nothing you posted contradicts this, so I didn’t refuse to address it. You did, however, quote then disregard the crucial truth I posted of. If you can’t answer it, then I implore you to reconsider your view and let the light of truth into your darkness. Here it is again: “I suspect you have no concept of redemption by the blood of Christ, and his sacrifice providing our safe passage into the Kingdom. To agree with your view, one would have to think himself able to “obey” his way into perfection and into the Kingdom of God, thereby rendering Jesus moot.” What then was Jesus’ purpose on Earth, if not to fulfill the law on our behalf? I just love it when non-believers instruct Christians on what we’re supposed to believe. Now THAT, Coz, is ARROGANCE.

Ever check out your own darkness?

……..but Bingo is OK. ??????

greg454 said:
—Oh, so you like religion now?

Didn’t say that. It’s just that freedom to worship is a founding principle, that shouldn’t be thrown out; but it has it’s limits.
We do get to mock religion if we want to, It’s called freedom of speech and there is no compromise.
Religious laws that contradict civil law have no validity and are unenforceable.
Public places, and private businesses do not have to turn themselves inside out to accommodate religious tradition. If you chose to come live here then it’s you who must adapt to us.

It’s not about being a “Muslim lover” . It’s about standing up for equality as one of our founding principles.
When the Constitution was written we weren’t living up to our own founding principles. There wasn’t equality for everyone. We’ve spent 200+ years trying to get better at it, so I’m not in favor of singling out any group, and finding reasons why they shouldn’t have the same liberties every other citizen expects. Not more, but not less either. Got that?

greg454 said:
Yet when it comes to under God in the pledge of allegiance, nativity scenes in public property, school choirs singing Ave Maria, or any expression of the popular religion, you don’t like it so much, do you?

If you’re talking to me then address what I’ve said. Don’t assume you know what I think just because of some stereotype in your own mind. That’s ignorant.

greg454 said:
Progressives like you would never tolerate Christianity being a mandatory course in college, yet you people don’t mind when a college forces the students to learn about Islam.

Actually I think it’s a good idea to teach an overview of world religions to kids before they get to college. Again; stop assuming things, and address my actual words, rather than assume you know what I think. You don’t, and neither all liberals or all conservatives think the same and fit stereotypes.

greg454 said:
Do you think criticism of Islam should be illegal? In Austria it’s become illegal to say that Mohammed was a pedophile, even if he married a 7 year old.
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/

That’s an interesting link Did you catch the important part of that article?
“The truth is, that it doesn’t matter whether Muhammad was a pedophile or not. What’s most important is what Muslims believe today. And as long as ‘official Islam’ justifies marrying off little girls by saying that Muhammad did it, I really don’t see why it’s insulting to call that ‘pedophilia’.

Muslims that move to other countries have to understand that it is their responsibility to adapt and accept the laws of that nation , rather than expect the nation to make changes because of their beliefs. Religious tradition does not supersede the laws of the land and they must either accept that or suffer the consequences.
If you want to pray 5 times a day and not eat pork, that’s fine. But you can’t marry a child if it’s against the law.

greg454 said:
1. We love beer. 2. We love pork. 3. We love porn. 4. We love politically incorrect speech. 5. We were founded by Christians and do not want taxpayer-funded celebrations of Islam. That is America, this is who we are, and any Muslim that wants to change our nature is not welcomed here.

No objections from me. Would it surprise you to know that porn is being sold in Baghdad right now, by Muslims to Muslims?
the flip side of that, is we should also continue to support the founding principle of religious freedom. Let’s not assume all Muslims think alike and have the same religious ideas and traditions. they don’t , just like Christians don’t. When people in TN start protesting their Muslim neighbors right to build a community center simply because of their religion, we’re not living up to our own principles.

huntingtonboy said:
……..but Bingo is OK. ??????

LOL! good one
Yes, it’s okay,
As long as you’re not dancing while you play.

greg454 said:
Wake up, America. You want Muslims praying on the streets? That’s what’s happening in France. Give the Muslims and inch and they’ll take a country.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

I appreciate the links. I’ve learned more about issues with Islam in Europe in the last week.

The issue isn’t them praying in the street. Christians get to do that here. The issue is the numbers and them blocking the streets. That’s an important distinction. I agree, they should NOT be allowed to block the street and need that to be crystal clear. If the Mosques aren’t big enough then the Muslim community needs to rent other facilities or open up their private homes to prayer.

Years ago a small group of Christians would come to the downtown area of the small city I lived in and stand on the street corners SHOUTING the gospel at the top of their lungs. People complained , and shops complained because it was hurting business. The police refrained from doing anything because they were worried about some “freedom of religion” law suit. I thought it was bull. They were disturbing the peace plain and simple , and hurting small business in the process. I’d feel the same way regardless of religion.
Freedom of religion means you get to worship as you choose, as long as it doesn’t break existing laws and cause harm to others. That goes for all religion.

Davo said:
There’s only a “contradiction” to someone who doesn’t understand the fundamental truth that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law “until the end of time” when “law” is no longer necessary. Nothing you posted contradicts this, so I didn’t refuse to address it.

That’s the same type of justification used so often. The contradiction revolves around the passage”until heaven and earth pass away” which I have mentioned several times and you haven’t addressed at all.
You claimed my quote was wrong because “until all is accomplished” referenced Jesus resurrection, rather than the end of time. According to these Christian commentaries , it means the end of time. That seems like a contradiction to me. Ultimately, I’m not concerned about a minor contradiction in scripture. It’s fairly common, as is your attempt at justification and waving away. It was however, you who challenged my post.

If I was going to explain this passage I’d say Jesus was talking about the actual Law, the living spiritual law that governs life, rather than the imperfect law and it’s imperfect superficial understanding the scribes and pharisees were talking about. That law, that has been around since the beginning, is unchangeable in even the smallest degree. It it the very nature of creation and will be here until the end of time. The scribes and pharisees, much like some people today, were reluctant to accept that their understanding of God’s Law, was so imperfect and based on the traditions of men. That was a big part of Jesus message.

But I’m not a religious guy.

Davo said:
You did, however, quote then disregard the crucial truth I posted of. If you can’t answer it, then I implore you to reconsider your view and let the light of truth into your darkness

That’s dogma rather than crucial truth. I didn’t ignore it. It happens to be irrelevant to the point of our conversation, but since you brought it up again here’s my personal opinion.
Every religion has their particular beliefs about how salvation works. All of them believe their version is the crucial truth. I don’t think anybody has it right, and we still have a lot left to learn. When it comes to my personal beliefs I decided years ago to not hand those over to any other person or group. I respect your right to choose a path that feels right for you and encourage anyone to do the same , but I’ll continue to post my opinions.
Personally, the blood sacrifice of Christ in Christian doctrine makes no sense at all to me. If there is an eternal creator, and we are eternal spiritual beings inhabiting physical bodies, destined before creation, I can’t imagine that such a creator would need a physical blood sacrifice to forgive us our sins.

Davo said:
hat then was Jesus’ purpose on Earth, if not to fulfill the law on our behalf?

To teach, by with words and by example. And then mankind, as he consistently does, distorts the message in the very process of trying to understand and live up to it. It’s a pattern in many religions.

Davo said:
I just love it when non-believers instruct Christians on what we’re supposed to believe. Now THAT, Coz, is ARROGANCE.

I did no such thing, and it’s disingenuous for you to make such a claim. I have the liberty to express my personal beliefs just as you do yours and this is an open forum where that kind of thing occurs. Of the two of us, you were the only one who expressed personal beliefs and called them the crucial truth. If someone was telling the other what they ought to believe, it was you, not me.

Thanks Chucklebee, now we don’t have to worry about you runnin for president.

CosmosDan said:
I did no such thing

Davo doesn’t like it that Atheists/Agnostic know more about the Bible than Christians do.

P.S.
The Old Testament is still good law. Civilized people simply choose to ignore parts of “God’s law” because it is inhumane and cruel. Good for them for doing so. However, if they engage in horseshit games like pretending the Koran has hate in it while the Bible doesn’t, I will slap their asses every time.

This fat ass Infuriate me with his righteous and arrorents. You are so christian not!!!!!!!

same2u said:
Davo doesn’t like it that Atheists/Agnostic know more about the Bible than Christians do.

According to a study done a few months back that is often the case.
I think it’s because a lot of atheists and agnostics have done the personal independent studies , often because they used to be Christians and decided to question what they were being told.

So… no more gambling, love thy neighbor, brother, fellow man, you are forgiven, all sinners welcome? Oh, ….right a man whom at one time appeared to “Not” be a fake christian, has to turn into to a judgement caller to pander to the fake christian teas! You just went from “maybe ok” to…… a crazy tea hate!

“Oh, ….right a man whom at one time appeared to “Not” be a fake christian, has to turn into to a judgement caller to pander to the fake christian teas! You just went from “maybe ok” to…… a crazy tea hate!”

Wow, that is as crazy and incoherent a rant as I have seen in a while. Kudos.

Huckabooboo just proved himself a very unChristian person. In Cairo, Catholics guarded mosques from Mubarek’s thugs while Muslims prayed. The Muslims then guarded the Catholic churches during Mass. He is also unAmerican; the 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of religion and assembly. The Christian churches were providing that for their fellow Muslim citizens.

bobmoses says:

Wow, that is as crazy and incoherent a rant as I have seen in a while. Kudos.
…………………

Kudos, what part do you not understand? Two lines is a rant? ..One who seemed to be a christian, has given way, to pander to the fake christians! Kudos for a slam that made no sense!

valkyrie101 said:
Didn’t Jesus committ suicide?

Jesus gave his life up for the people…NOW compare that to Muhammad’s death.

Muhammad died also a violent death…Muhammad was poisoned by a girl who he raped and took into his harem.

The girl was kidnapped after Muhammad and his men killed off ALL of the adult males of her Jewish village, including her father, brothers, and husband. Muhammad took all the males, every male who had pubic hair meaning even young boys, and had their heads chopped off. Muhammad had his men torture a leader of the village to force him to them where their treasure was, and after that they killed.

He then took the girl and raped her that evening, his guards watching to make sure she didn’t try to kill him.

Later he added her to his harem, and she never forgot. One evening she prepared a meal for him and SHE POISONED it and Muhammad SUFFERED FOR YEARS until he died…POISONED.

…and that is how Muhammad died.

Now as for suicides, when Muhammad first received his “revelations” he tried to kill himself several times by jumping off a cliff because he thought he was possessed, but his wife and her uncle convinced him he was a “prophet”.

While it’s true Muslims believe in Jesus, they think of him as a prophet. Not as the son of God. They say that Allah
has no son. They believe that when their messiah comes Jesus will tell the Christians to worship Allah
because the Christian God is a false one. They also believe that anyone who doesn’t accept Allah will be killed.
Letting them pray to Allah in a Christian church is like letting David Duke join the local branch of the NAACP.

The liberal left will rue the day they ever invited Muslims in to western society. American liberals are especially naive as to the dangers faced from Islamic ideology, partly because the US is a very religious nation. Read Winston Churchill’s views of Islam. The words he wrote about Islam nearly one hundred years ago are now coming true. very frightening.

Latin2 said:
Jesus gave his life up for the people…NOW compare that to Muhammad’s death. Muhammad died also a violent death…Muhammad was poisoned by a girl who he raped and took into his harem. The girl was kidnapped after Muhammad and his men killed off ALL of the adult males of her Jewish village, including her father, brothers, and husband. Muhammad took all the males, every male who had pubic hair meaning even young boys, and had their heads chopped off. Muhammad had his men torture a leader of the village to force him to them where their treasure was, and after that they killed. He then took the girl and raped her that evening, his guards watching to make sure she didn’t try to kill him. Later he added her to his harem, and she never forgot. One evening she prepared a meal for him and SHE POISONED it and Muhammad SUFFERED FOR YEARS until he died…POISONED. …and that is how Muhammad died. Now as for suicides, when Muhammad first received his “revelations” he tried to kill himself several times by jumping off a cliff because he thought he was possessed, but his wife and her uncle convinced him he was a “prophet”.

My point was that Jesus intentionally gave up his life. We usually call that suicide unless the death is further to physically saving someone (e.g. falling on a hand grenade to save a compatriot). Saving people “spiritually” would make for a good defense in Heaven, but most people on earth would think the person was crazy for intentionally giving up his life for no practical reason. Even Jesus’ own family thought he was “besides himself”.

As for your history of Mohammad, I was not aware that our historical records were so good from 1500 years ago. What is the source of your information?

Someone needs to remind the Huck about the separation of Church and states. He has to choose what he wants to be a leader of, a Political leader or a Church Minister. As a Political figure, he can share his opinion on good moral behavior, but what the Church does with his premises has nothing to do with him (not part of his Jurisdiction). If he wants to be a Church figure then he can rant as much as he likes, (but should get out of Govt.’s business), you can’t eat your cake and have it Mr. Huck.

I’m particularly amazed by the phonies who complain regularly that the constitution is not being followed. I’m not surprised a lot of you do not know what is actually in the constitution, you just repeat the same crap you heard From Beck and Limbaugh. If you know what the constitution is you’d know that Article 6 of the constitution, the First, and the 14th covers this matters.

Houndfan said:
While it’s true Muslims believe in Jesus, they think of him as a prophet. Not as the son of God. They say that Allah
has no son. They believe that when their messiah comes Jesus will tell the Christians to worship Allah
because the Christian God is a false one. They also believe that anyone who doesn’t accept Allah will be killed.
Letting them pray to Allah in a Christian church is like letting David Duke join the local branch of the NAACP.

That is idiotic, and your statement is ignorant without a doubt. You obviously are unaware of history, not interested in facts. Jews do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, yet the Country was founded on Judeo-Christian (Claims by some). If you know your history, you’d know Christians and Jews live under Muslim rules for centuries. Remember the Spanish inquisition? (that is if you’ve heard of it), the Jews migrated with the Muslims to Morrocco. Why didn’t they stay behind? check your history.

It’s shameful to whitewash history, heck its ignorant, especially when the facts is just under a click of the button. Trying to make a case that we are good and they are bad is lame and unenlightened. Saying the Muslims want to create everyone, is false, if that was the case the middle east would be rid of Christians, centuries ago, when the Muslims were ruling. There is no text that supports this fable from you.

Hey Huckabee! Muslims don’t call Jesus an infidel. They call him a prophet. You’re an infidel though. :D

Apparently, Huckabee ‘infuriated’ looks an awful lot like a calm guy talking about his Christian beliefs.

Ridiculous headline….

Frances Martel, your kind of ignorance is what sends people to hell.
To say that the Judeo-Christian God is equivalent to Allah and that Muslims believe in Jesus proves your blissful ignorance!! Muslims might believe in God, so does the devil, but unfortunately they (and apparently neither do you), have the discernment to know that Jesus is God and not just a prophet or teacher or whatever.
The Muslim Jesus (Isa) or the messiah they are looking for is actually the anti-christ.
That is an error that will keep you seperated from God for all eternity!!!

The ignorance of the Americans is astounding! In an age of information over flow, don’t you people have the slightest awareness or discriminating judgement?

Huckabee = the king of the ignorant and intolerant.

skyfet said:
That is idiotic, and your statement is ignorant without a doubt. You obviously are unaware of history, not interested in facts. Jews do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, yet the Country was founded on Judeo-Christian (Claims by some). If you know your history, you’d know Christians and Jews live under Muslim rules for centuries. Remember the Spanish inquisition? (that is if you’ve heard of it), the Jews migrated with the Muslims to Morrocco. Why didn’t they stay behind? check your history.

It’s shameful to whitewash history, heck its ignorant, especially when the facts is just under a click of the button. Trying to make a case that we are good and they are bad is lame and unenlightened. Saying the Muslims want to create everyone, is false, if that was the case the middle east would be rid of Christians, centuries ago, when the Muslims were ruling. There is no text that supports this fable from you.

When I said that Muslims don’t see Jesus as the son of God and just see him as a prophet I was saying
that with the thought that Muslims praying to Allah in a Christian church violates what both faiths stand for.
Why would you have someone in your house who you know ultimately wants your submission or destruction?
Since you bring up Jews, I must mention there are countries where there are hardly any Jews left at all because they had to flee due to muslim oppression or harassment. Last year I went to India, which has a huge Muslim population. In Kochi there is an area called Jew Town which has a synagogue with only 5 members. There used to be Jews there who had come from Iraq and Turkey to escape Muslim harassment. They wound up going to other countries.There is also a Jewish cemetary there. It is enclosed with a wall with broken glass cemented into the top of the wall to prevent vandalism and desecration from the local Muslims who love them so much. Jews are besides the point though, because the subject was whether Muslims should be praying to Allah in a Christian church. I don’t think it’s a good idea.

Only shows the hypocrisy of Hickup. He’s just as narrow minded as most religious zealots. My god is better than your god and get the hell outta my church, temple mosque…etc.

…i stand with Huck…the God of the Bible, Jehovah, says that we are to love the Lord God with all our mind ,body ,soul, and spirit first…then love your neighbor as yourself second.. to allow worship of afalse god in the temple of our Lord is not being neighborly, its blasphemous! We cannot unite on the second greatest commandment and keep the first. If you agree with “scootrbum”, perhaps you better take a deeper look at your faith as to who or what you believe in. Unlike Islam, I do not wish to force anyone to worship Jehovah… true Love is not coerced or forced…….it is given….
If you believe as Oparah does, that there are many different paths to Heaven, then you dont believe what Jesus said about being the only “Door”, and He becomes a liar and a false prophet…not worthy of believing of anything….

Mike Huckabee knows NOTHING about Islam or its beliefs, as evidenced by his ludicrous comments against Islam and Muslims.

He just wanted to be counted amongst those who oppose religion tolerance, like the Pam Gellers, Robert Spencers and Rush Limbaughs of the Islamaphobic world.

It’s easy for any moron to acknowledge the differences between faiths, but it takes an intelligent, spiritual, open mind to understand that the 3 Abrahamic Faiths (Judaism, Christianity & Islam) have many common beliefs.

If Huckabee is wrong, then how do you explain THIS: Afghani convert to Christ about to be executed by Muslim government

http://www.capwiz.com/afanet/issues/alert/?alertid=29642506

notsofast said:
And yet, the President and his wife want to tell us what we can eat and how to live our lives.

I just love your selective outrage, son.

Wow. Who EXACTLY IS Mikey Huckabee anyway? Is he a member of either of those churches? NO! So what say does he have over who they share their sanctuary?

Now….who are Barack & Michelle Obama? They are the President of the United States of America and the First Lady. They give advice on better ways to raise children because they, too, are raising children and with the health epidemic of child obesity, it seems that there ought to be more parents taking that advice and NO ONE complaining!! If you’re gonna complain, offer some better dietary suggestions instead!

scootrbum said:
Only shows the hypocrisy of Hickup. He’s just as narrow minded as most religious zealots. My god is better than your god and get the hell outta my church, temple mosque…etc.

If anybody thinks I like taking the side of Huckabee think again. But since even a broken clock is right twice a day,
he is right here. He would perfectly welcome a Muslim in his church who was thinking about Jesus or who had converted. However, if they want to worship Allah they belong in a mosque or any other place where they would
usually pray. How many Christians do you see praying to Jesus in the mosque?

@ John Ross , a building made with hands is not the temple , we are and thru this temple is where the people will see the Love of God , Jesus died for the whole world and the whole world is welcome .

Comparing a group of people with pornography is not showing any kind of Christian charity and Mike knows what he did here , he says that we shouldnt let muslims use a church “building” because their faith says that christians chould be obliterated , well isnt that what the “christian religion” says their god will do to all who dont accept Jesus in this life, thrown into a burning hell to barbecue for all eternity . Wait that even sounds worse than obliterated! Looks folks Jesus died for the sins of the whole world so that debt is paid , anything that is wood , hay , or stubble will be burned up eventually so God will be ALL IN ALL . Mike truly makes the “christian religion ” look no better than any other radical religion in the world.

halljephtha said:
Christian charity

Actually, that’s what the debate is about.

If a Christian church donates their church to a group that don’t believe what the donor church believes.

doesn’t

When it is privately owned…..there shouldn’t be an issue.

Commercial land or public land would be different.

Private land property rights have to cede to the owner.

And the owner should not be punisehed by codes just because you don’t agree with them.

CrapWatch on sajepress dot com says it all. This man will not be able to go through the first round of primary debates with his counterparts. Unless he is debating Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin. I think he still might lose.

Frances Martel,
Clearly you know not one thing about the koran. The koran refers to Christians as swine in numerous verses, the character the muslims call Jesus bears no resemblance to the Christian Jesus and is in fact a minor prophet whom the koran says will come back destroy the cross and all the swine who do not submit to Allah. The Muslims dinigrate Christians 17 times a day in their prayers. The first prayer refers to Christians as “wayward.” Muslims are slaughtering Christians daily in all Muslim majority countries. In the koran mohammed tells muslims NOT to take Christians as friends. In Muslim majority countries Christian churches may not even be built and those standing cannot be repaired or as in the case of Egypt under Mubarek only after years (10+) of red tape and govt bureaucracy. The new regime being built in Egypt has not allowed the Christian Copts to participate in any way although the Copts are native Egyptians who supported the regime change.

Yes the churches who are aiding those who will someday slaughter or at the very least terribly persecute them can do as they please with their property but it isn’t Christian to aid those who will persecute and slaughter other Christians in the not too distant future in this country. Want to know what sharia law, the Muslim laws cair openly admits it wants to replace the US constitution with, says about the rights of Christians under sharia law read The Reliance of the Traveller. Christians and non muslims will be relegated to second class citizenship.

Certainly if you ask someone at cair or any other muslim organization they will deny anything they choose to. after all the koran says it is ok to lie to unbelievers of allah to further the cause of islam.

Islam is NOT an Abrahamic faith. It is the opposite
Best to you suicidal lot.

My many of the thumbs up in Huckabee’s favor it’s nice to see a lot of people are familiar with Christianity. On the other hand, a lot of you also have no idea what you’re talking about. Huckabee is appealing to their Christian sense of duty, what’s right or wrong, not laws or regulations and NOT that the government intervene and interfer with their rights. You really don’t get the difference there??? It’s no different than if pro-life people allowed pro-abortion people to use their facilities. If you essentially believe what they are doing is wrong and leads to death (spiritual in this case) you don’t ENCOURANGE and FACILITATE their demise! Duh. It makes NO sense that they would let them use their church building, unless they too are clueless that their religion teaches these people are eternally lost and your helping them be so. Huckabee was in no way saying laws or government should be involved. Who in worth started that goofy idea?

Oh, and never mind, that being a Christian IS illegal and often punishable by death in many, many Muslim places, but who do we worry about? We pick on Huckabee simply appealing to them morally to do the right thing for all their eternal souls?? That’s pretty perverse actually. If they were in need of food, clothing, medicine etc… Christians would have no problem helping them that way. Christians are by far the biggest donors for aid in the world as it is, but based on Christ’s teachings, helping them into eternal darkness isn’t exactly a good thing to be applauded and Huckabee called them on it. Do they believe what they say they do or not? By our tenets, Christians are required to rebuke another Christian when doing wrong or at least no lie about it when discussing it.
Wow, I need to spellcheck myself. lol you’re, Who in the World… etc..

Leslie-Ann Howard-Martin Redweik said:
My many of the thumbs up in Huckabee’s favor it’s nice to see a lot of people are familiar with Christianity. On the other hand, a lot of you also have no idea what you’re talking about. Huckabee is appealing to their Christian sense of duty, what’s right or wrong,

Clearly Christians do not agree on this. It is a Christian pastor who made the decision to let them use the building
.
To some, Christianity, charity, love, brotherhood, compassion, is in the hearts of the congregation rather than in the sign over the door, or the bricks and wood that make up the building.
They are neighbors and understand the differences of belief, Does that mean all charity and kindness extended toward non Christians somehow supports false beliefs. Of course. Consider the story of the good Samaritan. Is it possible that an act of Christian charity might open doors to understanding.

IMO that pastor understands the spirit of Christ’s teachings better than Huckabee,

Leslie-Ann Howard-Martin Redweik said:
Oh, and never mind, that being a Christian IS illegal and often punishable by death in many, many Muslim places, but who do we worry about?

Please! Did Christ teach that we extend charity only to those who return in kind. Quite the opposite.

“Clearly Christians do not agree on this. It is a Christian pastor who made the decision to let them use the building”
I agree because it is NOT Christian to allow the worshiping of any God but the Christian God in a Church. Shame on these pastors.

Muslims will destroy these very same churches as well as all other churches in a few short years as their numbers rise. Here is an example of what we have to look forward to:
http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/02/24/obama-and-leftist-media-silent-as-egyptian-military-attacks-christian-monasteries-2/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+newsrealblogfb+%28NewsReal+Blog%29

“Please! Did Christ teach that we extend charity only to those who return in kind. Quite the opposite.”

He did not teach us to desecrate our churches, Allowing them to worship Allah in a church is not charity it is blasphemy. We should not allow our churches to be used for their worship for the same reason that they have for never allowing us to worship in their mosques. This is so wrong of these pastors as to be frightening.