Protestors expressing dissatisfaction , interesting .

Like most screaming protesters, when they say “we” willl destroy Israel, they mean that someone else will destroy Israel while they sit at home, watch it on tv, and cheer them on.

The reality is somewhat different.

While Israel is in a very real danger if radicals take over Egypt because of the loss of control of the Egyptian border, it won’t be as simple as just walking over and destroying Israel. And the Egyptian military knows that.

Isarel by and large, while admiittedly being ruthless at times, plays by the rules. Hamas and their ilk don’t. In a fight for their very survival the Israelis won’t play by those rules any longer and things will get very, very ugly. They won’t just rol over.

Those screaming for their destruction would do well to remember that.

Nothing like wanting freedom… the freedom to wipe out an entire country, religion, and ethnic group you hate. We want freedom!… to hate and kill. We want freedom!… to hate and kill.

Frankly, if it wasn’t for Israel I’d say drill for our own oil, of which we have plenty, pull evry troop and diplomatic mission we have out of the Middle East from Beirut to Tehran to Yemen, and let them all burn in the hell of their own making.

If israel disappeared today, does anyone out there really think there would be peace in the Middle East?

No.

They’ll kill each other with gusto like they have for millenia. They’ll be a seventh century society again within a generation, crushed under the heel of radical Islam.

Drill, baby, drill.

Our ruler Obama needs to send I-Pods of his Cairo speech and some t-shirts . Pronto !

ah, are you still singing the song of revolution? At least what this shows that the worls is not that black and white, good or bad. That sometimes America has to side with the bad guy to maintain it’s interest. So perhaps we can stop hearing lectures from the stupid idiots on how great America is. America might be great, but with a lot of great nations before it, it has bloods in his hands. It sided with Saddam before they turn on each other, they’ve been siding with Mubarak for 30yrs.

With all the phony lecture they give to the whole world about freedom and the rest, this incident has blown that cover. They don’t care about democracy and freedom, they just care about their empire (which is fine with me), at least now the cover has been blown, and the righteous lecture to the rest o the world will seize.

Harry Flashman said:
Frankly, if it wasn’t for Israel I’d say drill for our own oil, of which we have plenty, pull evry troop and diplomatic mission we have out of the Middle East from Beirut to Tehran to Yemen, and let them all burn in the hell of their own making.

If israel disappeared today, does anyone out there really think there would be peace in the Middle East?

No.

They’ll kill each other with gusto like they have for millenia. They’ll be a seventh century society again within a generation, crushed under the heel of radical Islam.

Drill, baby, drill.

So Israel should be abandoned by the Jews?

The Lantern of Truth said:
Our ruler Obama needs to send I-Pods of his Cairo speech and some t-shirts . Pronto !

and DVDs

just because a few people said they dont like the u.s does not make it so.
i was there 2 months ago,i saw how things have changed.

skyfet said:

“So Israel should be abandoned by the Jews?”

Where the hell did you get that out of my post, skyfet?

I am an unabashed and proud supporter of Israel, the only truly free country in the entire region, a tiny island of civilization surrounded by barbarians who live for blood in one form or another, either theirs or someone else’s in the name of “allah”.

No. I don’t think the Israelis should “abandon” their homeland. And they won’t. They’ll fight to the last man and woman first.

The Lantern of Truth said:
Our ruler Obama needs to send I-Pods of his Cairo speech and some t-shirts . Pronto !

And have a Beer Summit ;).

beamandgrow said:

“just because a few people said they dont like the u.s does not make it so.
i was there 2 months ago,i saw how things have changed.”

For a bit more perspective, let give you another timeline.

I lived in Morocco fro 18 months from ’72 to ’74. I also lived and worked in Saudi, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt specifically Cairo and Suez) from 1980 to 1983. Then you could walk the streets in safety, be treated courteously, and be safe in public (as long as you didn’t wander off to places where no one in their right mind goes, like any other big city). Hell, I traveled all over Morocco, from Tangier to Marrekech, ibn a beat up ’62 Ford Falcon and was treated with nothing but generosity and respect.

I wouldn’t feel as secrure now as a westerner, and with reason. people weren’t coaching Muslims to “kill Americans wherever you find them” back when I was there.

So, yeah, things have chnged, and if you look at a timeline that includes more than a couple of months you’d realize just how much.

I wonder how many people CNN interviewed before they got these two clips — the ones they want to push on the public? CNN is an untrustworthy entity – especially when reporting foreign news, let’s recall their relationship with Saddam and how they lied for him to protect him.

How many holes did hehimself play yesterday on the golf course, I wonder???

Muslims and Christians/Jews have hated each other for centuries, long before the current wars. I don’t understand why so many people think that this hatred started in 2003, or that it will end after the wars are over.

There is certainly some element of anti-American and anti-Israel feelings among some protesters, but “some” is the optimum word. There is plenty of trade, travel and immigration between us and Egypt, plus the majority of people are most likely content with the level of prosperity that they’ve achieved. Of course just like there are elements in this country who distrust and perhaps irrationally hate all Muslims, I’m sure there are mirror images among the Egyptian people.

I also feel that as we drag our feet, there’s a good chance that an anti-American sentiment will grow, but right now, it’s clearly not reflective of their society or the protesters as a whole. Not to mention that this morning’s New York Times has revealed that other groups have tagged onto the movement in recent days, plus there’s been accusations since Saturday that Mubarak is over-playing the fundamentalist threat as a scare tactic and that the police are doing much of the looting to add to the appearance of chaos.

Harry Flashman said:

If israel disappeared today, does anyone out there really think there would be peace in the Middle East?

No.

They’ll kill each other with gusto like they have for millenia. They’ll be a seventh century society again within a generation, crushed under the heel of radical Islam.

.

Sounds to me like everyone should give up and just leave, including the Jews.

DorkyMcForky said:
Muslims and Christians/Jews have hated each other for centuries, long before the current wars. I don’t understand why so many people think that this hatred started in 2003, or that it will end after the wars are over.

One, most people do know that the Arab-Jew hate goes back literally millennia.

Two, Christians have not exactly been friends for the Jews historically either.

Egyptians who are protesting the despotic totalitarian regime that the Israel government supports and has taken part in keeping in power over the desires of the people – *they* don’t like the Israeli government???

Gee whiz, what a surprise!!! I mean, shouldn’t they love the Israeli government for supporting a despot that has ruled over them for the last 30 years? I know that if my country was run by a bunch of despots controlled by, say the USSR, I would LOVE the USSR for doing that!!!

Who wouldn’t?

US media is SMART!!! I like how smart journalists are in the United States. They are so smart.

Magister said:
I also feel that as we drag our feet, there’s a good chance that an anti-American sentiment will grow, but right now, it’s clearly not reflective of their society or the protesters as a whole. Not to mention that this morning’s New York Times has revealed that other groups have tagged onto the movement in recent days, plus there’s been accusations since Saturday that Mubarak is over-playing the fundamentalist threat as a scare tactic and that the police are doing much of the looting to add to the appearance of chaos.

Drag our feet? So you really still don’t get it?

Let me put it in simple terms for all – every single time we get involved in Middle East politics, things get worse. This applies to Democrat and Republican administrations – all well meaning – who simply assume that the Middle East wants to be interfered with. We need to learn to watch and wait and not try to manipulate. Our policy should be one of encouraging freedom and free societies but not one of active participation. We are – historically – not that good at it.

ELBARADEI: I’m quite confident of that, Fareed. This is a myth that was sold by the Mabarak regime, that it’s either us — the ruthless dictators — or a Muslim al-Qaeda type. The Muslim Brotherhood has nothing to do with the Iranian movement, has nothing to do with extremism as we have seen it in Afghanistan and other places. The Muslim Brotherhood is a religiously conservative group. They are a minority in Egypt. They are not a majority of the Egyptian people, but they have a lot of credibility because of liberal parties have been a struggle for thirty years. They are in favor of a secular state. they are of –they are in favor of an institution that have bread lines, they are in favor that every Egyptian have the same rights, that the state is in no way a state based on religion. And I have been reaching out to them. We need to include them. They are as much a part of society as the markets that started here. I think this is a myth that has been perpetuated and sold by the regime and has no iota of reality. You know Fareed, I worked with Iranians, I’ve worked here. It’s 100 percent difference between the two societies.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, what a surprise. More hate from Muslims. Who would have thought.

FK them!

Keeva said:
One, most people do know that the Arab-Jew hate goes back literally millennia.

Two, Christians have not exactly been friends for the Jews historically either.

Someone needs to give them a lesson about the Spanish inquisition.

notsofast said:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, what a surprise. More hate from Muslims. Who would have thought.

FK them!

Dummy! have you heard of the term Coptic Christians before? they were in Egypt before the Muslims came over.

skyfet said:
skyfet says:
January 31, 2011 at 10:45 am skyfet(Quote)

Muslims. FK them and YOU!

Greg said:
ELBARADEI: I’m quite confident of that, Fareed. This is a myth that was sold by the Mabarak regime, that it’s either us — the ruthless dictators — or a Muslim al-Qaeda type. The Muslim Brotherhood has nothing to do with the Iranian movement, has nothing to do with extremism as we have seen it in Afghanistan and other places. The Muslim Brotherhood is a religiously conservative group. They are a minority in Egypt. They are not a majority of the Egyptian people, but they have a lot of credibility because of liberal parties have been a struggle for thirty years. They are in favor of a secular state. they are of –they are in favor of an institution that have bread lines, they are in favor that every Egyptian have the same rights, that the state is in no way a state based on religion. And I have been reaching out to them. We need to include them. They are as much a part of society as the markets that started here. I think this is a myth that has been perpetuated and sold by the regime and has no iota of reality. You know Fareed, I worked with Iranians, I’ve worked here. It’s 100 percent difference between the two societies.

First of all this sound like a Message from the Muslim Brotherhood.
2. of all, it’s about America and it’s interest nothing to do with the Egyptian people.
The Egyptian can sort themselves out, looks like they are doing it at the moment, nothing to do with the MB, they are just bogeymen for the Dictator.

notsofast said:
Muslims. FK them and YOU!

When your ignorance is exposed you resort to cursing, am I supposed to be alarmed by this?

Keeva said:
One, most people do know that the Arab-Jew hate goes back literally millennia. Two, Christians have not exactly been friends for the Jews historically either.

One, I specifically said “so many people”, not “most people” fool

and

Two, no shit, except we aren’t talking about Christian/Jew relationships right now, are we? This video had specific mentions to Israel and the US, which are Jewish/Christian nations. Both Christians and Jews have a common “enemy” historically, which are Muslim people.

skyfet said:
Dummy! have you heard of the term Coptic Christians before? they were in Egypt before the Muslims came over.

Hey shitforbrains , 90% of Egyptians are Muslims, so suck a big nut!

Keeva said:
Drag our feet? So you really still don’t get it?

Let me put it in simple terms for all – every single time we get involved in Middle East politics, things get worse. This applies to Democrat and Republican administrations – all well meaning – who simply assume that the Middle East wants to be interfered with. We need to learn to watch and wait and not try to manipulate. Our policy should be one of encouraging freedom and free societies but not one of active participation. We are – historically – not that good at it.

“Drag our feet” because if Obama (or Hillary) were to say unequivocally, in no uncertain terms that Mubarak had lost the faith of his people and that they can’t see how his regime would be able to stay in power or something along those lines, the protesters would be emboldened, the Mubarak government would become further isolated, perhaps the Egyptian military would stand down, but either way, there wouldn’t be much he could outside of pure tyranny to stay in office.

Right now by recognizing him, we’re giving legitimacy to his regime and if we were to stop, it’d all come tumbling down like a house of cards.

With that said, appearances are that there’s back-channel discussions among second or third level diplomats that is not only reaching out to the new players, but we’re probably also seeking assurances that Mubarak will not be prosecuted and that he’ll be able to live out the rest of his life in London, New York or wherever he might choose.

IOW: We’re “dragging our feet” on making a public statement, nothing more.

Fu Wzhe said:
Gee whiz, what a surprise!!! I mean, shouldn’t they love the Israeli government for supporting a despot that has ruled over them for the last 30 years? I know that if my country was run by a bunch of despots controlled by, say the USSR, I would LOVE the USSR for doing that!!!

Israel does not determine Egypt’s president, nor does it dictate to him. Egypt has the government it deserves, just as we do, and it will be the case when Mubarak is gone.

The Egyptians must not have heard that Obama is in office now. Everyone’s supposed to like us.

I’m really sick of hearing about the blank check of “American interests.”

WHAT American interests? Then starts the mumbo jumbo…”We need to prop up this dictator here because he supports that theocracy there and this other dictator…”

If we are willing to prop up dictators who subjugate, rob, torture and murder “their” people, then CLEARLY we are willing to tolerate people subjugating, robbing, torturing and murdering one another. Not only are we willing to tolerate it, but we are willing to subsidize it.

But if you don’t have a problem with that, then why give a $hit about any other country?! We can get out and stay out of their affairs. So we might as well stay out of their affairs, keep them from having any gripe with us, and save American lives and money.

So, if you are UNPRINCIPLED enough to support dictators, you should be for non-interventionist foreign policy, because you clearly don’t give a $hit about repression versus freedom.

And if you are principled enough that you do care about freedom, you won’t be willing to get in bed with any foreign regimes, because they ALL have their issues with freedom, AS DO WE. So, if you are principled, you should likewise advocate a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Which means that this foreign policy debate is not about freedom at all. It’s about money. Oil is the biggest part of that, according to most. People say “we need to ensure an uninterrupted supply of oil for the American people.” But this is cr@p too. Because oil is fungible. Just as no amount of “war on drugs” stops people who want drugs from getting them, it just raises the price of drugs. No amount of international intrigue, revolution, infighting, etc will keep oil off the market. If country A says they won’t sell it to the USA, they’ll sell it on the open market (at a lower price BTW, because of surplus supply if we aren’t bidding) and then whomever buys it will sell it to us. NOTHING but being broke or all the wells running dry will keep oil from the American people.

And yet we intervene anyway. Why is that? Because the fights that our good and brave troops are so criminally forced into ARE about oil (and money and power); But not to make sure Americans can buy oil, we just showed why they can do that regardless. The fight is about which cronies, both domestic and overseas, of our politicians GET PAID on that oil. And, the big defense contractors WANT these fights to continue. Make no mistake. Have you ever heard someone say “we had a bad quarter, we’ve gotta get this war cranked up again?” I have. It’s sickening. But war is big business for the USA. And it is criminal what we do to our brave men and women in uniform, as well as to people all over the world, fighting these undeclared wars for no reason other than to choose which politicians’ cronies around the world get richer.

The average American citizen, the little guy, is told he benefits from these battles. He’s told he’d be out of oil. or be threatened with bodily harm, if he didn’t support the wars and interventionism. But the truth is that the American citizen is going broke paying for this. And it raises, not lowers the true price of oil. And it destroys liberty and security at home, as we go into more and more of a war-lockdown.

DEMAND non-interventionist foreign policy now!! If we don’t end the neverending wars we WILL collapse into a failed police state.

notsofast said:
sky
Hey shitforbrains , 90% of Egyptians are Muslims, so suck a big nut!

How long did it take you to do that research?

Pepe has an interesting take…

“the last time the Egyptian street gelled this way was during the 1919 revolution against the British. Now, for Muslims and Christians, the working class, the middle class, the unemployed masses, lawyers, judges, scholars from al-Azhar University, students, peasants, theologians, independent journalists and bloggers, Muslim Brotherhood activists, the National Association for Change, the April 6th movement, for all them the days of Mubarak’s Animal Farm are numbered. ”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB01Ak02.html

So, one Egyptian says she hates Israel, and Schneider is leading us to conclude that Egypt is full of antisemites? Duh…

drop the bomb, already.

Pablo said:
Israel does not determine Egypt’s president, nor does it dictate to him. Egypt has the government it deserves, just as we do, and it will be the case when Mubarak is gone.

The United States does.

The US bribes every dictator in power in the region, so long as it’s friendly to Israel. It bribes the despot that runs Egypt, it bribes the despot that runs Jordan. Syria doesn’t get anything, neither does Iran.

That is really how it is. It’s just that simple. I’m not saying that the United States keep the governments in power because they support Israel, I’m saying that the US will only bribe those governments if they support Israel. The US is only interested in stability in the region, they don’t care about democracy. The US overthrew the Iranian democracy in 1953 because they were worried about oil supplies, and they put a dictator in power as a result. That’s why the Iranians are still upset with us. You can bet the same thing will happen in any place where the US has supported some scumbag dictator that the population hates.

That’s US foreign policy, not that you know anything about it. You just have a research tool sitting in front of you that is the envy of every civilization that’s ever existed before it – it’s not your fault you can’t spend 10 minutes doing some thinking with it…

The fact people like you support this kind of behavior shows either a complete lack of knowledge about foreign policy, or complete hypocrisy. If any nation did this to the United States, you would be livid. If they did it to Israel, they would be livid, but when the US does it to some Muslim country where people wear funny hats and speak a funny language – oh, that’s OK to an American.

The US has absolutely no business supporting any government anywhere, period, especially an anti-democratic one – unless Americans have decided they like to support tyranny. If so, let it come home to roost.

writer said:
The Egyptians must not have heard that Obama is in office now. Everyone’s supposed to like us.

I don’t think Nobel powers are activated until you mail in the proof of purchase . App for that ?

The US should have supported Mubarak and helped him retain control of the country. It sounds like it will now go Muslim Rule.

Obama should be impeached if that happens.

A good deal of this “hatred” is actually “envy” of our many freedoms.

@George Sore-ohs: As I pointed out in another thread… Mubarak is a Muslim; I’m sure the overwhelming majority of the Parliament are Muslims because Islam is the country’s largest faith. Heck, the other day as I was watching the protests, pretty much everyone including the cops stopped for prayer.

George Sore-ohs said:
The US should have supported Mubarak and helped him retain control of the country. It sounds like it will now go Muslim Rule.

Obama should be impeached if that happens.

Yes, just like Ronald Reagan should have been impeached if the dictator of Iran was allowed to be over-thrown in the 1980s. Without Saddamn Hussein running the country who knows what would have happened? A bunch of extremists could have come to power and started a war with Iran, perhaps even using the weapons of mass destruction on the ethnic Kurd minority there.

Thank goodness that didn’t happen, and the US used it’s UN veto power to keep Hussein in charge.

Yes, the US certainly does good things by keeping dictators in power. Look at all the success that it had putting the Shah into power, and the success of SAVAK. Good things are bound to happing keeping the Sa’ud Family running Saudi Arabia too.

And the people of the region just love the United States for doing all these wonderful things, propping up these governments, and preventing self rule.

If it wasn’t for Operation Ajax, heck, there probably would have been no Iranian Revolution, and hence no Ahmadinejad, or Islamic Revolution which was copied by Hezbollah, the Taliban, and Hamas.

Yes, it’s a very good thing for the United States to prop up dictatorships in the Middle East – certainly it won’t build any sort of resentment, and these despot governments will never be overthrown and run by people seeking revenge for the decades of mistreatment they received under totalitarian rule sponsored by the United States.

US Middle Eastern policy is certainly a great success.

Not that you have any idea what I’m talking about, after all, you’re probably an American that knows about as much about US foreign policy as the typical American understands economics.

George Sore-ohs said:
The US should have supported Mubarak and helped him retain control of the country. It sounds like it will now go Muslim Rule.

Obama should be impeached if that happens.

Impeached for exactly what?
Your ignorant is embarrassing. Where in the constitution does it states the U.S should be the world Police? I’d like to see you debate Ron Paul and his son.

“Egyptian Protesters Reveal To CNN Hatred Of Israel And America.”

Bonus Question for the day:

What do Egyptian protestors and Progressive Democrats have in common?

skyfet said:
Impeached for exactly what?
Your ignorant is embarrassing. Where in the constitution does it states the U.S should be the world Police? I’d like to see you debate Ron Paul and his son.

Because his incompetence threatens the country. Much like it could be argued that 9/11 might not have happened if Jimmy Carter had handled Iran with the US’s interests in mind.

It happened in Britain in 1940 when all parties realized that Neville Chamberlain was out of his league and would create more harm to the country if he remained in power. They all got together and had their version of impeachment and booted Chamberlain out and replaced him with Winston Churchill. I don’t know how many people on this board follow history.

If Britain had not done this many here would be lampshades today.

NORBIT said:
“Egyptian Protesters Reveal To CNN Hatred Of Israel And America.”

Bonus Question for the day:

What do Egyptian protestors and Progressive Democrats have in common?

I’ll take a stab at this:

They both don’t like the US government supporting dictators that are hated by the people they rule?

Did I get the right answer? I’m not certain what a Progressive Democrat would say though, because I’m a Paleo Conservative – remember us? We debated at length about entering WWII until Perl Harbor was bombed, because we believed in a non interventionist foreign policy. We still had a non interventionist policy, but Japan and Nazi Germany declared war on us, so, well, we had to kick their butts and we did.

You see the policy of non-interventionists is that if you attack us, we’ll annihilate you, but if you don’t attack us, we’ll leave you alone and you can solve your own problems. Back then, we used to win wars and we never started them.

“Plot Thickens: Egyptian Protesters Reveal To CNN Hatred Of Israel And America”

Gee, you could switch it to “Liberals” and it still works. Actually, the Left probably hates Israel and America more.

Well Mr. POTUS I hope you’re happy.  You went to Cairo and gave your little speech.  You talked about what scumbags Americans are and how we have mistreated every Egyptian everywhere.  You lit a match in a part of the world filled with gasoline.  

You are a terrorist’s best friend; you’re even doing their work for them.  Your Press Secretary announced your next trip abroad is to Haiti.  What are you going to say about America in your speech there?  I guess we should prepare for an uprising there too.  Talk about scorhed Earth policies.  Please, Mr. POTUS… Keep your mouth shut.  Stop your hate.  Stop playing God…it’s above your pay-grade and your abilities.

Just_MC said:
If we are willing to prop up dictators who subjugate, rob, torture and murder “their” people, then CLEARLY we are willing to tolerate people subjugating, robbing, torturing and murdering one another. Not only are we willing to tolerate it, but we are willing to subsidize it.

The reality is there are gray areas. Some countries are run by lessor tyrants, but tyrants nonetheless. But the alternative at any point in time may be worse.

What do we do? We have to try to influence things so they can become more democratic.

As JFK said: “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”

“This much we pledge — and more.”

By not acting, we also may weaken those countries where the leadership is moving towards democracy.

The idea that we can operate in a vacuum is silly. It doesn’t work. The world is too intertwined – and has been for many scores of years.

Alz said:
The reality is there are gray areas. Some countries are run by lessor tyrants, but tyrants nonetheless. But the alternative at any point in time may be worse.

What do we do? We have to try to influence things so they can become more democratic.

Influence things like giving a dictator a billion dollars a year in foreign aid?

The US isn’t interested in making anything more democratic. They’re not even interested in doing that in this country – what do you think the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping is and I’m being entirely serious. The Federal government is completely corrupt, and if you’re a liberal, you’re a fool to think you can reform it.

listen people it is like saying nutssofat and his rightwing nutjobs does not like obama so it means the whole country hates him. That will be just stupid.
Just 29% of Egyptians now have a negative view of the USA, down from 79% two years ago. http://bit.ly/frQabf

Muslims hate Christians and Israel? Wow, hood’a thunk? The U.S. has propped up U.S backed foreign-puppets for years. They do so to benefit the U.S. standard of living. Is it right? Depends on your point of view.

beamangrow said:
listen people it is like saying nutssofat and his rightwing nutjobs does not like obama so it means the whole country hates him. That will be just stupid.
Just 29% of Egyptians now have a negative view of the USA, down from 79% two years ago. http://bit.ly/frQabf

Because, as we all know, the NY times is ENTIRELY reliable.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/features/9226/

US media is nothing more than propaganda. If you think the Internet is an unreliable source of information, compare it to any media in the US that is supported by advertising.

Of course they hate us. We’ve kept a brutal dictator in charge there for 30 years because it benefitted us and our allies.

Stephen Feller said:
Of course they hate us. We’ve kept a brutal dictator in charge there for 30 years because it benefitted us and our allies.

Dictator yes. Brutal not sure.
The only thing brutal is how the Muslim Brotherhood killed his predecessor Sadat giving him power.

As for the US supporting him. So what!! Why aren’t the left criticizing all the countries supporting the despots in Iran who keep on killing, hanging, shooting or stoning anyone espousing democracy.

The alternative to him would be even more brutal to the Egyptian public and as you can see the people don’t even realize it. That is why Democracy doesn’t exist in the Muslim world as the two don’t mix.

Wake up everyone!!

Alz said:
The reality is there are gray areas. Some countries are run by lessor tyrants, but tyrants nonetheless. But the alternative at any point in time may be worse. What do we do? We have to try to influence things so they can become more democratic.

Says WHO? We don’t HAVE to do anything. In fact, we SHOULDN’T do anything. The reality is that THERE IS NO REGIME ON EARTH WE CAN RIGHTFULLY SUPPORT. NOT EVEN OUR OWN. OUR OWN COUNTRY IS IN A TERRIBLE STATE OF CONFLICT THAT MAY LEAD TO INSURRECTION AS PEOPLE TRY TO REESTABLISH FREEDOM HERE. SO, WHO IS IT (AND WHY) THAT QUALIFIES AS A FOREIGN STATE WORTHY OF OUR BACKING?

Alz said:
,P>As JFK said: “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty.” “This much we pledge — and more.” By not acting, we also may weaken those countries where the leadership is moving towards democracy. The idea that we can operate in a vacuum is silly. It doesn’t work. The world is too intertwined – and has been for many scores of years.

I put more trust in George Washington’s judgement than JFK’s.
“It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies. ”

Despite Washington’s sage advice, we are in a perpetual state of alliances, by definition, in ordinary circumstances. It will be our ruin, mark my word.

Fu Wzhe says:
January 31, 2011 at 1:39 pm Fu Wzhe(Quote)
1 0
beamangrow said:
listen people it is like saying nutssofat and his rightwing nutjobs does not like obama so it means the whole country hates him. That will be just stupid.
Just 29% of Egyptians now have a negative view of the USA, down from 79% two years ago. http://bit.ly/frQabf

Because, as we all know, the NY times is ENTIRELY reliable.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/features/9226/

US media is nothing more than propaganda. If you think the Internet is an unreliable source of information, compare it to any media in the US that is supported by advertising.

yes more reliable than fox

the problem is i went there 3 years ago,then went back 2 months ago, it is not the same.

beamangrow said:
listen people it is like saying nutssofat and his rightwing nutjobs does not like obama so it means the whole country hates him. That will be just stupid.
Just 29% of Egyptians now have a negative view of the USA, down from 79% two years ago. http://bit.ly/frQabf

“In 2009, positive opinions about the United States rose to 40 percent against 48 percent negative. And last year — the first survey conducted after Mr. Obama’s well-received June 2009 speech in Cairo — positive opinions became the plurality, at 45 percent, against 29 percent negative views, figures comparable to those for survey participants in the United Kingdom and France. Although opinion about the United States has also improved in most other countries since Mr. Obama’s election, according to the survey, in perhaps no case has the change been quite so dramatic.”
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/poll-egyptian-publics-views-toward-united-states-are-much-improved/

Mubarak Obama

Color Me Badd said:
Mubarak Obama

http://www.businessinsider.com/egyptian-photoshop-2010-9

George Sore-ohsAs for the US supporting him. So what!! Why aren’t the left criticizing all the countries supporting the despots in Iran who keep on killing, hanging, shooting or stoning anyone espousing democracy.

I don’t know what the reasoning of the left is, but here’s the reasoning from a non-interventionist

I doesn’t cost us any money to let a country do what they want.

China is a pretty terrible country, I don’t see you blowhard lunatics saying we need to topple their government and overthrow them – because we shouldn’t.

It’s unfortunate that there are bad governments out there, but guess what, it’s not our problem UNLESS we are KEEPING THAT GOVERNMENT IN POWER WITH TAX PAYER MONEY.

It’s the responsibility of citizens to reign in their government. Why don’t you stupid lunatics start worrying about this country? You know, the one that just spend about 6 trillion dollars bailing out criminals on wall street instead of prosecuting them under BOTH Bush AND Obama, and stop worrying about Egypt?

All you useless idiots care about is mindlessly defending whatever STUPID foreign policy the US has even when it costs billions of dollars to support this foreign policy that doesn’t advantage you in ANY WAY. All it does, is cost you money, you simpleton.

When Iran gets a nuclear weapon, if they drop one, we just annihilate the nation with one of our nuclear weapons of which we have thousands. They aren’t a threat to us, so stop wetting your pants trying to POLICE THE WORLD – remember, you were once against that before the MORON Bush took office?

I have read over and over excuses for Muslims as being a peace religion etc etc… where are they?

Most liberal groups that say they stand up to equality excuse this horrible Muslim belief system that want to kill homosexuals, enslave women and stone people in these modern times.

But woman organizations and major media networks here in America will cowardly protect these people that dont believe in freedom…

I am so glad I can see the hypocrisy of the left.

George Sore-ohs said:
Because his incompetence threatens the country. Much like it could be argued that 9/11 might not have happened if Jimmy Carter had handled Iran with the US’s interests in mind.

The reason the US has a conflict with Iran is that in 1953, the CIA overthrew the DEMOCRACY in Iran with Operation Ajax (it’s declassified now, why don’t you read it?) so that the US and the British could STEAL OIL.

The CIA than helped the PUPPET DICTATOR run a police state which as VERY REPRESSIVE. It was so REPRESSIVE that the only people CRAZY enough to resist it were religious LUNATICS.

This was the Iranian Revolution. The Iranian Revolution had a fair amount of support because the US PUPPET DICTATOR RAN A POLICE STATE that killed lost of people, up to and including people trying to re-establish DEMOCRACY. This US supported this government anyhow, and helped them “eliminate” any resisters INCLUDING PEOPLE TRYING TO RE-ESTABLISH DEMOCRACY.

In 1979, the Iranian Revolution was successful. They took over the US embassy because it was in the US embassy that the CIA staged the COUP IN 1953 (did I mention Operation Ajax is declassified and you can read it?)

Much to the chagrin of people that supported the Iranian Revolution, it turned out to be as bad as the US PUPPET they had before, even worse.

The US immediately imposed sanctions, and even got SADDAM HUSSEIN to go to WAR with Iran. Now that Iran was in a war, what did the Iranian do? Did they surrender to the dictator in Iraq? No, they fought him tooth and nail, and they did this by rallying around their government, as despicable as it was.

By 1988 both sides fought to a stalemate, but the Iranian government now how iron clad control over the country.

See – isn’t US interventionism swell?

I mean, we could have just bought the oil and made ties with their DEMOCRACY, but NOOOOOOO – we had to try to get the oil cheaper by STEALING it. That worked out well.

You see, when the rest of the Arab world noticed “religion + fanatics = deposing US puppets” it was copied, everywhere. Al Qaeda is a copy of the Iranian Revolution, so is Hezbollah, and Hamas. Isn’t it wonderful? And it’s all because the US didn’t want to engage in CAPITALISM to PURCHASE oil.

LibertySister said:
I have read over and over excuses for Muslims as being a peace religion etc etc… where are they?

Most liberal groups that say they stand up to equality excuse this horrible Muslim belief system that want to kill homosexuals, enslave women and stone people in these modern times.

But woman organizations and major media networks here in America will cowardly protect these people that dont believe in freedom…

I am so glad I can see the hypocrisy of the left.

Don’t play with me.

LibertySister said:
I have read over and over excuses for Muslims as being a peace religion etc etc… where are they?

Most liberal groups that say they stand up to equality excuse this horrible Muslim belief system that want to kill homosexuals, enslave women and stone people in these modern times.

But woman organizations and major media networks here in America will cowardly protect these people that dont believe in freedom…

Well why aren’t you advocating that we go to Sudan? Lots of killing there?

Oh, I know why, because nobody in the media is talking about it, because there are no corporate interests in the region…

That’s the depth of your concern, isn’t it?

Uh…not much of a plot thickener, sorry.
Many of us kinda like already knew that there’s billions of Muslims that hate America and Israel.

As I posted a few days ago “Do we really want to see democracy in Egypt? I was roundly criticized here for asking a serious and sensible question. Many posters here may not know the history of Islamic fundamentalism ans the Islamic Brotherhood which started in Egypt in the 1950s. Nassar, a socialist put the leaders in jail. Sadat came to power and he let them out. Sadat made peace with Israel and members of the Islamic Brotherhood killed them. Mubarak put them back in jail and killed others. Egypt has been a pressure cooker since the 1950s. It could have a Sunni version of the Shiite, Islamic Revolution. That would be a disastrous game changer. The price of the Camp David Accords was making Egypt the second largest recipient of American aide. This aide is largely military aide, which keeps the top on the pressure cooker. The lid is loose. I do not think we want it to blow off.

George Sore-ohs said:
Dictator yes. Brutal not sure.

the police are brutal and hated in Egypt. the uprising has been brewing for years.

George Sore-ohs said: That is why Democracy doesn’t exist in the Muslim world as the two don’t mix.

Wake up everyone!!

Malaysia? Indonesia? Lebanon has a elected parliament do they not? Hamas was elected but over thrown by the PA with help US and Israel. What about the purple fingers that you right wingers were crowing on about? oh yea in Iraq the parties with ties to Iran won the elections. Democracy doesn’t work for you if the “right “people don’t win and are ok with dictatorship to protect Israel.

Leave it to CNN to find the few anti-American and anti-Israel protesters in the crowd. But what’s unique about that? CNN has always had a hatred for both. What a bunch of leftists tools.

MsUnderestimated said:
Leave it to CNN to find the few anti-American and anti-Israel protesters in the crowd. But what’s unique about that? CNN has always had a hatred for both. What a bunch of leftists tools.

P.S. Forgot to mention how amusing it was the reporter never asked a follow-up question, yet kept feeding her the mic, bobbing his head up and down IN AGREEMENT with her, like one of those glass-blown bird toys that bobs its beak into a tube of water.

hanoisteve said:
the police are brutal and hated in Egypt. the uprising has been brewing for years.

Malaysia? Indonesia? Lebanon has a elected parliament do they not? Hamas was elected but over thrown by the PA with help US and Israel. What about the purple fingers that you right wingers were crowing on about? oh yea in Iraq the parties with ties to Iran won the elections. Democracy doesn’t work for you if the “right “people don’t win and are ok with dictatorship to protect Israel.

I have been to Malaysia twice. It is a Muslim dominant multi ethnic country, I have watched women in Muslim dress have Christmas songs as cell phone ring tones while there. There is a long history of discrimination against non Malay, particularly Chinese. There are some issues of Islamic fundamentalism in West Malaysia, near the Thai border. There is generally religious tolerance there. Christmas tress are very prevalent during Christmas season. Stereotyping all Muslims is like judging all Christians by fundamentalist who deny the science of evolution and climate change.

armwood said:
I have been to Malaysia twice. It is a Muslim dominant multi ethnic country, I have watched women in Muslim dress have Christmas songs as cell phone ring tones while there. There is a long history of discrimination against non Malay, particularly Chinese. There are some issues of Islamic fundamentalism in West Malaysia, near the Thai border. There is generally religious tolerance there. Christmas tress are very prevalent during Christmas season. Stereotyping all Muslims is like judging all Christians by fundamentalist who deny the science of evolution and climate change.

Read up about the Buddhists in Thailand.

armwood said:
As I posted a few days ago “Do we really want to see democracy in Egypt? I was roundly criticized here for asking a serious and sensible question. Many posters here may not know the history of Islamic fundamentalism ans the Islamic Brotherhood which started in Egypt in the 1950s. Nassar, a socialist put the leaders in jail. Sadat came to power and he let them out. Sadat made peace with Israel and members of the Islamic Brotherhood killed them. Mubarak put them back in jail and killed others. Egypt has been a pressure cooker since the 1950s. It could have a Sunni version of the Shiite, Islamic Revolution. That would be a disastrous game changer. The price of the Camp David Accords was making Egypt the second largest recipient of American aide. This aide is largely military aide, which keeps the top on the pressure cooker. The lid is loose. I do not think we want it to blow off.

The Islamic Republic of Egypt has a particularly scary and dangerous ring to it.

Fu Wzhe said:
The reason the US has a conflict with Iran is that in 1953, the CIA overthrew the DEMOCRACY in Iran with Operation Ajax (it’s declassified now, why don’t you read it?) so that the US and the British could STEAL OIL.

The CIA than helped the PUPPET DICTATOR run a police state which as VERY REPRESSIVE. It was so REPRESSIVE that the only people CRAZY enough to resist it were religious LUNATICS.

This was the Iranian Revolution. The Iranian Revolution had a fair amount of support because the US PUPPET DICTATOR RAN A POLICE STATE that killed lost of people, up to and including people trying to re-establish DEMOCRACY. This US supported this government anyhow, and helped them “eliminate” any resisters INCLUDING PEOPLE TRYING TO RE-ESTABLISH DEMOCRACY.

In 1979, the Iranian Revolution was successful. They took over the US embassy because it was in the US embassy that the CIA staged the COUP IN 1953 (did I mention Operation Ajax is declassified and you can read it?)

Much to the chagrin of people that supported the Iranian Revolution, it turned out to be as bad as the US PUPPET they had before, even worse.

The US immediately imposed sanctions, and even got SADDAM HUSSEIN to go to WAR with Iran. Now that Iran was in a war, what did the Iranian do? Did they surrender to the dictator in Iraq? No, they fought him tooth and nail, and they did this by rallying around their government, as despicable as it was.

By 1988 both sides fought to a stalemate, but the Iranian government now how iron clad control over the country.

See – isn’t US interventionism swell?

I mean, we could have just bought the oil and made ties with their DEMOCRACY, but NOOOOOOO – we had to try to get the oil cheaper by STEALING it. That worked out well.

You see, when the rest of the Arab world noticed “religion + fanatics = deposing US puppets” it was copied, everywhere. Al Qaeda is a copy of the Iranian Revolution, so is Hezbollah, and Hamas. Isn’t it wonderful? And it’s all because the US didn’t want to engage in CAPITALISM to PURCHASE oil.

You left out the Soviets. Kind of a big deal back then. Duh.

LibertySister said:
I have read over and over excuses for Muslims as being a peace religion etc etc… where are they?

Most liberal groups that say they stand up to equality excuse this horrible Muslim belief system that want to kill homosexuals, enslave women and stone people in these modern times.

But woman organizations and major media networks here in America will cowardly protect these people that dont believe in freedom…

I am so glad I can see the hypocrisy of the left.

Exactly.

Point it out over and over again because the Left will never get it and normal people need it pointed out because the media os infested with leftists.

Fu Wzhe said:
Influence things like giving a dictator a billion dollars a year in foreign aid?

The US isn’t interested in making anything more democratic. They’re not even interested in doing that in this country – what do you think the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping is and I’m being entirely serious. The Federal government is completely corrupt, and if you’re a liberal, you’re a fool to think you can reform it.

Agreed that the Federal Government is corrupt. That’s why the Tea Party is rising. We need to defund as much as possible and get back to allowing people to run their lives.

american and isreali foreign policy has for decades been to placate the despots without having to institute real fundamental progress to placate the actual people these despots oppress. Now the despots are gone and the people are pissed off. What did you expect was gonna happen? sooner or later, the Gaza phenomenon (where democracy leads to the election of radicals) is gonna get replicated through the entire middle east and there’s gonna be a sh*tstorm. sad. but true. hate to say it…but the chickens are coming home to roost indeed.