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Rachel Maddow Fears New Citizens United Influence, But Swiftboating Isn’t New

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by Frances Martel | 12:38 pm, July 2nd, 2011

» 79 comments

The 2012 election cycle is proving to be a bit of a dry spell for fundraising for many Republican contenders, as even the most powerful fundraisers are appearing to underperform. Last night Rachel Maddow took a look at the finances of several candidates– from the formidable fundraiser Mitt Romney to folksy upstart Rep. Thaddeus McCotter– and found they made significantly less money than one would assume. This led Maddow to conclude the money was being channeled elsewhere, to third party PACs, which could potentially decide the 2012 election.

Maddow did not deny that “Mitt Romney is the prohibitive favorite,” but noticed that the total funds he had put together so far were not exactly meeting expectations. That’s not to say other candidates were doing better: Jon Huntsman dove into his private money to fund himself, while other candidates with less private largess were simply making do. But for Romney this appeared most damaging to Maddow, as he was largely considered the frontrunner because of his money-making ability. “If you don’t actually attract the amount of money you said you were going to, what happens then?”

The culprit, to Maddow, was this year’s landmark Citizens United case, which dismantled much of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (aka McCain-Feingold) and allowed corporations to donate to candidates as persons. “Money is just carving a new path down the mountain this year,” she suggested, noting that, if given the choice, donating anonymously via corporations to private groups instead of candidates is the more appealing way to invest in politics. “Why not instead give unlimited money that you don’t need to put your name on– why not starve the candidates and instead spend on outside groups?”

The night’s guest, E.J. Dionne, agreed, abstaining from calling Citizens United the worst Supreme Court decision ever (Dred Scott came to mind) but calling it “very, very alarming” and “a terrible decision.” He did not give the new fundraising all the credit, however, suggesting that “let’s beat Barack Obama” is a far more popular conservative argument than “let’s elect one of these people.”

Citizens United has done very much to change the landscape of campaign finance, but in arguing that the 2012 election will be more muddled with anonymous money and, particularly, decided by outside groups than any other election is to ignore much of what has happened in the past decade. If anything, the internet’s democratization of campaign donations has done more to involve the public in politics than any decision, as has the establishment of 527 groups that can pay for mass political statements unaffiliated from either campaign.

It is impossible for the 2012 election to be the first decided by a third party group– that title belongs to the 2004 election. Yes, Sen. John Kerry‘s loss can be attributed to the fact that he was uninspiring, long-winded, and offered little new or different to the country. But the final nail in the coffin for that campaign was indisputably the campaign by third party group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, whose members came out of nowhere to strip Sen. Kerry of what was perhaps his greatest advantage in the 2004 campaign– unlike George W. Bush, he was a war veteran. The Swift Boat Vets turned Sen. Kerry into nothing less than a despicable traitor and national embarrassment. There’s a reason the verb “to swiftboat” is still a common member of our political lexicon: the Swift Boat ads were the first time an unaffiliated third party group used outside funds to sink a presidential candidate with masterful efficiency. For Maddow to present this phenomenon as new is near-sighted, though she is absolutely right in suggesting that the ease with which Citizens United and several similar Supreme Court cases allow for campaign donations will only exacerbate the possibility of such swiftboating.

The segment via MSNBC below:

2012 elections, 527s, barack obama, Citizens United, E.J. Dionne, Jon Huntsman, Mitt Romney, Rachel Maddow, Republicans, Swiftboat Veterans

The Lantern of Truth

There’s a reason the verb “to swiftboat” is still a common member of our political lexicon:

Not a single point made by the Swiftboat captains who knew Kerry was ever proven untrue .

Kerry promised to release his Navy records . Never did , of course .
http://www.facebook.com/miraclelurker Ellen Carey Rowe

LOVE YOU RACHEL !
The Lantern of Truth

Hey Rachel .

As Senator , Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and denounced it as a failure of leadership .

Do you see a story there , little lady ?
possibly

Mediate is NOT a media site.

This has become Foxnation on steroids.
Fokker News

The Lantern of Truth said:
e Swiftboat captains who knew Kerry was ever proven untrue

And I cab flip that and say that nothing they said was ever proven to be true. Anything that happens in history can be denied by somebody and the fact I can’t disprove his denial, doesn’t make it true. What we do know is, unlike George Bush, he actually when to Vietnam and risked his life. George Bush on the hand, was most likely skipping his mandatory reserve meetings while hanging out in bars getting drunk.
news_junkie

“This led Maddow to conclude the money was being channeled elsewhere, to third party PACs”

Of course she offers up no proof of this, but hey, it gave her the opportunity to go after the Citizens ruling.

Rachel, do you think maybe with all of the low polling amongst the candidates right now, it’s just as likely people are simply not contributing to anyone or anything right now and waiting it out?

Nah, this is some grand super PAC conspiracy to oust Obama. LOL.
Perdido

Rachel will also look into Democratic fund raising. Because, as she’s said, MSNBC has no agenda.
mlb

Here’s a thought Rach: maybe it is still too early in the election process for most Republicans to decide whom they wish to support financially, not the evil PACs. Money is tight you know? They also don’t have the leverage of threats and promises that Obama uses when wooing his financial supporters like Wall Street, Big Corporations, hollywood etc..
My bet is we haven’t even seen all the candidates yet.
The Lantern of Truth

Fokker News said:
most likely skipping his mandatory reserve meetings while hanging out in bars getting drunk.

Dis dude be trippin’ .

What’s wrong with you , man ?
mandennis

“Citizens United has done very much to change the landscape of campaign finance, but in arguing that the 2012 election will be more muddled with anonymous money and, particularly, decided by outside groups than any other election is to IGNORE much of what has happened in the past decade… It is IMPOSSIBLE (?) for the 2012 election to be the first decided by a THIRD PARTY group– … But the final nail in the coffin for that campaign was indisputably the campaign by THIRD PARTY group Swift Boat…”

anonymous campaign money going to “unaffiliated” THIRD PARTY groups (courtesy of Citizens United) does help in deciding an election. yeah, “unaffiliated” my ass.
WTF, Frances.
Fokker News

mlb said:
Money is tight you know?

Not for the Koch brothers, you know the “productive” people, who inherited their fortunes and now use it to buy tea party candidates..
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/glenn-beck-explains-how-the-unions-are-using-teachers-firefighters-and-co ImNotBlue

possibly said:
Mediate is NOT a media site.

This has become Foxnation on steroids.

How do you figure?
Perdido

Unlike George Soros, who never interferes.
mandennis

possibly said:
Mediate is NOT a media site.

This has become Foxnation on steroids.

True that. like you’ve got writers like Frances Martel, Matt Schneider and Colby Hall pretending to be journalists.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/glenn-beck-explains-how-the-unions-are-using-teachers-firefighters-and-co ImNotBlue

Fokker News said:
Not for the Koch brothers, you know the “productive” people, who inherited their fortunes and now use it to buy tea party candidates..

Why is George Soros “good,” but Koch “bad?”

Is it simply that their opinions are different than yours, or is there something more tangible?
The Lantern of Truth

Fortunately , the unions take the dues squeezed out of their members and distribute them equally among the parties .
mandennis

The Lantern of Truth said:
Fortunately , the unions take the dues squeezed out of their members and distribute them equally among the parties .

yeah, but you don’t see GOP ‘bagger govs going (in secret) to Colorado to lick the boots of the Koch brothers.
Fokker News

ImNotBlue said:
Why is George Soros “good,” but Koch “bad?”

Is it simply that their opinions are different than yours, or is there something more tangible?

George Soros is a self-made person. The Koch brothers were born with silver spoons in their mouths and are called the “productive people” by the likes of teabaggers who are too stupid to see that they don’t represent their interests.
Perdido

Soros’ money spends differently, because he’s ‘self-made’.
SuperStar

Fokker News said:
George Soros is a self-made person. The Koch brothers were born with silver spoons in their mouths and are called the “productive people” by the likes of teabaggers who are too stupid to see that they don’t represent their interests.

I agree . John Kerry is a hard worker too . He worked very hard to find a way to try and dodge the taxes on his 7 million dollar yacht , that his wifes inherited fortune bought . Gotta love the common man .
mandennis

so rachel is wrong because there is such a thing as an “unaffiliated third party group.”
so who is to credibly say a third party group getting anonymous campaign money is “unaffiliated,” huh Frances?
Paul G

ImNotBlue said:
Why is George Soros “good,” but Koch “bad?”

Is it simply that their opinions are different than yours, or is there something more tangible?

Soros pays him a penny a post to type his bullsh*t, while the Koch bros ACTUALLY make things.
tws258

ImNotBlue said:
Why is George Soros “good,” but Koch “bad?”

The Seven Commandments were designed to unite the animals together against the humans and prevent animals from following the humans’ evil habits. Since not all of the animals can remember them, they are boiled down into one basic statement: “Four legs good, two legs bad!” (with wings counting as legs for this purpose, Snowball arguing that wings count as legs as they are objects of propulsion rather than manipulation), which the sheep constantly repeat, distracting the crowd from the lies of the pigs.
LOGICandREASON

Richard Madcow
carlinist

Unlike many of you here, i think.

I formulate my own thoughts, and create myself (mentally) rather than trying to fit myself into one group or the other because I have learned to question, something none of you guys have.

Yes i know the tea partiers questioned the Obama administration.. but have they questioned what the new House of Reps and Senators and Governors have done? have they ever found out that some of the decisions taken by them are.. serving the special interests and not theirs(Wisconsin anti-Union bill)?

Lets look at Obama. Haven’t you guys in the left, figured out that Obama, now in the third year, has broken some of his most important campaign promises, like ending the War in Afghanistan, Bringing control to the executive branch( ex: declaration of war is congress’ right) and closing gitmo?

Your politicians have been bought and sold by lots in this country for a long time. Citizen United has just legalized it.
What these corporate raiders don’t want are educated public that think and question. They want obedient followers that defend their “own” no matter how hypocritical their move is. The rest (undecided voters) vote for the candidate that has more chances of winning, believing that they might be right.

This is all typical of politics in this country and around the world.
carlinist

correction
*Yes i know the tea partiers questioned the Obama administration.. but have they questioned what the new House of Reps and Senators and Governors they have voted in have done? *
CAconservative

Maddow falsely assumes money will be the deciding factor in the upcoming elections. Elections that are a year and a half out, and this idiot president is campaigning instead of dealing with a myriad of serious issues that are harming this country. His only answer to the deficit is raising taxes, and the dept ceiling.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.
Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here”. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America ha a debt problem and a failure of leadership. America deserves better”
– Sen.Barrack Obama (D-IL) March 20, 2006 -
Obviously, this clown talks that talk and………..that’s all!! It’s going to take far more than money to get this empty suit reelected!!
dhg

Hey Rach how about delving into the billion dollars Obama intends to accumulate in order to buy his re-election.

Just where is all that coming from?How many PACs will be going after Obama and other Dems using the same new loop holes in the rules?

Look Rachel I know that fear and vitriol is your stock and trade as well as double standards but sheesh there isn’t anything you are so fearful of that can’t be used just as effectively by your own party.

And guess what,your chosen candidate has a lot more things to be worried about than PACs and the money they have or use,he has a faltering economy he can’t seem to fix that will decide the election no matter how much money either party throws around.
http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Saunders/705760521 David Saunders

“There’s a reason the verb “to swiftboat” is still a common member of our political lexicon”

excuse me, but “to swiftboat” is an infinitive.
and, “swiftboating” is a gerund.

“He was swiftboated”…now that’s a verb.
reddog339

Rachel, Babe, where were you when Obama’ bundlers were converting ILLEGAL foreign donations that had donations ending in a fraction of a cent due to money conversion rates?? Missed that story, did you and your vaunted network?? ON Swift Boat Vets and Kerry. John(I know who to marry) didn’t release his service records but the Swift Boat Vets showed a form where Kerry had requested a Purple Heart for a scratch- Navy doctor denied it so Kerry went to another Navy doctor. Kerry plan: 3 Purple Hearts and out of Vietnam in 4 months- He is as much a credit to the Democrat party as you are to real fact based reporting.! Being the” snarky “beech can only go so far on TV.
Rokker

Lying, distorting and cheating is the conservative way in America. They are despicable.
carlinist

The Lantern of Truth said:
There’s a reason the verb “to swiftboat” is still a common member of our political lexicon:

Not a single point made by the Swiftboat captains who knew Kerry was ever proven untrue .

Kerry promised to release his Navy records . Never did , of course .

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=2289

very informative.
Paul G

carlinist said:
Unlike many of you here, i think.

I formulate my own thoughts, and create myself (mentally) rather than trying to fit myself into one group or the other because I have learned to question, something none of you guys have.

Yes i know the tea partiers questioned the Obama administration.. but have they questioned what the new House of Reps and Senators and Governors have done? have they ever found out that some of the decisions taken by them are.. serving the special interests and not theirs(Wisconsin anti-Union bill)?

Lets look at Obama. Haven’t you guys in the left, figured out that Obama, now in the third year, has broken some of his most important campaign promises, like ending the War in Afghanistan, Bringing control to the executive branch( ex: declaration of war is congress’ right) and closing gitmo?

Your politicians have been bought and sold by lots in this country for a long time. Citizen United has just legalized it.
What these corporate raiders don’t want are educated public that think and question. They want obedient followers that defend their “own” no matter how hypocritical their move is. The rest (undecided voters) vote for the candidate that has more chances of winning, believing that they might be right.

This is all typical of politics in this country and around the world.

Sooooo….your a tea party member? …I didn’t think so. Just another Moron.
SuperStar

tws258 said:
ImNotBlue said:
Why is George Soros “good,” but Koch “bad?”

The Seven Commandments were designed to unite the animals together against the humans and prevent animals from following the humans’ evil habits. Since not all of the animals can remember them, they are boiled down into one basic statement: “Four legs good, two legs bad!” (with wings counting as legs for this purpose, Snowball arguing that wings count as legs as they are objects of propulsion rather than manipulation), which the sheep constantly repeat, distracting the crowd from the lies of the pigs.

LOL
gaoshu777

Best regards for you all,

Looking forward to your visiting.

http://tinyurl.com/6bl2yvk/
lorenzo

I guess Rachel forgot it was Obama who broke his word on funding his campaign with public financing in ’08:

http://goo.gl/ImZgX

That was after he was a very vocal proponent of public financing while he was a senator. And, of course, if he raises a record one billion bucks this election, he will get a complete pass from all the erstwhile “good government” types that are usually shouting about the corruption of big campaign cash.
dhg

Rokker said:
Lying, distorting and cheating is the conservative way in America. They are despicable.

Then every single politician must be a conservative.

If you think any ideology doesn’t lie,cheat,distort and take advantage of the weaknesses in our system you are naive and frankly stupid.Take the blinders off and stop being a sheep.
felixw

Hey Rachel, if you want to look at hidden flows of money channeled into places they can impact US politics, why not do a show on George Soros’s financial ties to 30 media organizations? That’s much more hidden than PAC money, and — for some strange reason — almost no one in the media is reporting on it.
Frances Martel

David Saunders said:
“There’s a reason the verb “to swiftboat” is still a common member of our political lexicon”

excuse me, but “to swiftboat” is an infinitive.
and, “swiftboating” is a gerund.

“He was swiftboated”…now that’s a verb.

“infinitive” is a verb tense. That’s like saying “that’s not a verb, that’s a past perfect.”

“Swiftboating” can be both a gerund and a present participle verb.

“He was swiftboated” is a sentence.
2012freedom

The Lantern of Truth said:
Hey Rachel .
As Senator , Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and denounced it as a failure of leadership .
Do you see a story there , little lady ?

Woa! Wait a minute! Rachael Madcow is a female?
BatBoy

Rachel Maddow – Jusr Feeding the base to keep herself revelant!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Lars-Svensen/100001028197161 Lars Svensen

Maddow resembles Dolph Lundgren. Why is that?
david r

Frances Martel said:
“He was swiftboated” is a sentence.

Imperfect tense, right?
david r

I don’t share the gloom and doom over Citizens United. BHO showed last time he could raise money better than anyone I can remember. Now, four years later with the power of the Presidency? I imagine we’ll be seeing quite of lot of Obama ads leading up to the election.
Gorgegirl

CAconservative said:
Maddow falsely assumes money will be the deciding factor in the upcoming elections. Elections that are a year and a half out, and this idiot president is campaigning instead of dealing with a myriad of serious issues that are harming this country. His only answer to the deficit is raising taxes, and the dept ceiling. “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here”. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America ha a debt problem and a failure of leadership. America deserves better”– Sen.Barrack Obama (D-IL) March 20, 2006 -Obviously, this clown talks that talk and………..that’s all!! It’s going to take far more than money to get this empty suit reelected!!

Have you ever stepped back and thought about that statement made by then Senator Barack Obama? Of course – he knew there was already enough votes to secure the increase in the debt limit, but he was truthful when he said that the Republicans “borrow and spend” policies were NOT working and it was indeed a failure of leadership by the George W Bush administration that got us into this mess. To blame the current administration for the failure of the Bush administration and the national debt that was DOUBLED by them, is absolutely ludicrious.
Now, we are saddled with HUGE INTEREST ON THE BUSH DOUBLED NATIONAL DEBT>
It doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out. Try taking off your Republican hat and think like a human being.,
Gorgegirl

reddog339 said:
Rachel, Babe, where were you when Obama’ bundlers were converting ILLEGAL foreign donations that had donations ending in a fraction of a cent due to money conversion rates?? Missed that story, did you and your vaunted network?? ON Swift Boat Vets and Kerry. John(I know who to marry) didn’t release his service records but the Swift Boat Vets showed a form where Kerry had requested a Purple Heart for a scratch- Navy doctor denied it so Kerry went to another Navy doctor. Kerry plan: 3 Purple Hearts and out of Vietnam in 4 months- He is as much a credit to the Democrat party as you are to real fact based reporting.! Being the” snarky “beech can only go so far on TV.

John Kerry was a Vietnam vet. George W BUsh did what he and many others, including Cheney did when they had family influence – they joined the national guard or got 6 deferments so they wouldn’t have to go into the war zone., George flew sorties over Texas instead of patrolling the waters of Vietnam for the enemy.
Gorgegirl

felixw said:
Hey Rachel, if you want to look at hidden flows of money channeled into places they can impact US politics, why not do a show on George Soros’s financial ties to 30 media organizations? That’s much more hidden than PAC money, and — for some strange reason — almost no one in the media is reporting on it.

George Soro’s money will still not stack up to the Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch’s media empire.
That is how our country will fail. Freedom of speech will be overwhelmed and the people will no longer have any say. That is what happens when the Republicans OWN the US Supreme Court.
J Baustian

Fokker News said:
Not for the Koch brothers, you know the “productive” people, who inherited their fortunes and now use it to buy tea party candidates..

You are mistaken about the Koch brothers. They inherited a small company and turned it into a huge company. They make money the old-fashioned way — they EARN it.

Additionally, they contribute legal amounts to federal office candidates, and they contribute to the Federalist Society and the Cato Institute. They have not created hundreds of front organizations likes Soros and his buddies.
J Baustian

Gorgegirl said:
George Soro’s money will still not stack up to the Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch’s media empire.t.

FNC is one network — there are four and a half major networks spreading the left-wing gospel. (Depending on whether you count MSNBC)
Rescuedog2

“For Maddow to present this phenomenon as new is near-sighted”

And for Maddow (and Mediaite, at least in this piece) to present this phenomenon as unique to Republicans is absurd and false. But keep on pushing the narrative, Frances. Maybe someday someone will believe it.
mlb

Fokker News said:
Not for the Koch brothers, you know the “productive” people, who inherited their fortunes and now use it to buy tea party candidates..

Here is something you might not be aware of: from New American Gazette

BTW wealthy fortunes have been used to buy candidates of all parties.

An analysis of the Top 20 Richest People in America (from Forbes Top 100) reveals that a full 60% are actually Democrats. Furthermore, if you eliminate the duplication caused by people from the same family being included in that Top 20 list (Wal-Mart & Koch) that ratio widens even further to:
25% Republican / 75% Democrat.
Not only are there more Democrats in the Top 20 list, but those Democrats are a lot more stingy with their money. Republicans coughed up $5.2 million while Democrats squirted out only $2.1 Million.
Gorgegirl

david r said:
I don’t share the gloom and doom over Citizens United. BHO showed last time he could raise money better than anyone I can remember. Now, four years later with the power of the Presidency? I imagine we’ll be seeing quite of lot of Obama ads leading up to the election.

And despite the efforts of all the Republicans, you will see a lot of hardworking American people and their union money there as well. before the Republicans destroy what is left of our country – what with their bought and paid for US Supreme court, it won’t be long until they take away our right to assemble and our freedom of religion.,
cjd ohio 1

Gorgegirl said:
And despite the efforts of all the Republicans, you will see a lot of hardworking American people and their union money there as well. before the Republicans destroy what is left of our country – what with their bought and paid for US Supreme court, it won’t be long until they take away our right to assemble and our freedom of religion.,

lol, union money, of course
Gorgegirl

mlb said:
Here is something you might not be aware of: from New American Gazette BTW wealthy fortunes have been used to buy candidates of all parties. An analysis of the Top 20 Richest People in America (from Forbes Top 100) reveals that a full 60% are actually Democrats. Furthermore, if you eliminate the duplication caused by people from the same family being included in that Top 20 list (Wal-Mart & Koch) that ratio widens even further to:25% Republican / 75% Democrat.Not only are there more Democrats in the Top 20 list, but those Democrats are a lot more stingy with their money. Republicans coughed up $5.2 million while Democrats squirted out only $2.1 Million.

They aren’t a “lot more stingy with their money”, the only foundations you see which benefit education and the poor are Democrats. Take Bill Gates and Warren Buffitt for example. Instead of philanthropist work – the Republicans buy the US Supreme Court, Governors and congress., Now, the Koch brothers will do everything they can do to buy the presidency because their goal is to take away the voice of the American people and our freedoms.
Gorgegirl

cjd ohio 1 said:
lol, union money, of course

Yes, union money is a pot put together by hardworking American people.
cjd ohio 1

Gorgegirl said:
Yes, union money is a pot put together by hardworking American people.

for the unions purpose, not all their members views
Gorgegirl

CAconservative said:
Maddow falsely assumes money will be the deciding factor in the upcoming elections. Elections that are a year and a half out, and this idiot president is campaigning instead of dealing with a myriad of serious issues that are harming this country. His only answer to the deficit is raising taxes, and the dept ceiling. “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here”. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America ha a debt problem and a failure of leadership. America deserves better”– Sen.Barrack Obama (D-IL) March 20, 2006 -Obviously, this clown talks that talk and………..that’s all!! It’s going to take far more than money to get this empty suit reelected!!

I realize that the Fake fox NEWS won’t share this with you, but the democrats have made a lot of cuts to programs so when your kid gets sick from eating some spinach, don’t forget that the FDA will no longer be able to check food safety. I hope you don’t have a lot of children and babies die, but “remember, we have too much government in our lives and cuts have to be made so the fricking rich can fly around in theilr private jets”.
Hope the kids who die aren’t yours.,
cjd ohio 1

Gorgegirl said:
I realize that the Fake fox NEWS won’t share this with you, but the democrats have made a lot of cuts to programs so when your kid gets sick from eating some spinach, don’t forget that the FDA will no longer be able to check food safety. I hope you don’t have a lot of children and babies die, but “remember, we have too much government in our lives and cuts have to be made so the fricking rich can fly around in theilr private jets”.Hope the kids who die aren’t yours.,

hook, line, and sinker wow
Gorgegirl

cjd ohio 1 said:
for the unions purpose, not all their members views

Who do you think makes up the Union? Members of each union make up their own by-laws and support candidates of the majority. Just because there are a few Republicans among them, that just means their voice is outnumbered. That is what a democracy is, isn’t it? Majority rules?
cjd ohio 1

Gorgegirl said:
Who do you think makes up the Union? Members of each union make up their own by-laws and support candidates of the majority. Just because there are a few Republicans among them, that just means their voice is outnumbered. That is what a democracy is, isn’t it? Majority rules?

really, maybe a new union, but that is very rare, most are set in place, unions and corperations are the same, looking out for their own interest. By the way, if you work for say the post office, union dues or their fair share get taken out of you pay check no matter what
http://societyfordaintydamsels.wordpress.com artemesia

To myself the the original issue is the citizens united US Supreme Court ruling. No matter what President Barack Obama did or will do and the Tea Party ideology, the Koch bros etc, the issue is the ruling the justices of the US Supreme Court in a 5 to 4 ruling that states in so many words , corporations can give as much money as they can. There is no accountability. In other words the donations can be done in complete secrecy and the public is left with no recourse. IMHO that is the issue here. The other issues are important but the newstory was on the Citizens United ruling and the decision of Supreme Court stands regardless of the other topics.
2012freedom

Gorgegirl said:
Now, the Koch brothers will do everything they can do to buy the presidency because their goal is to take away the voice of the American people and our freedoms.

That is so weird, I thought it was Geroge Soros.
felixw

Gorgegirl said:
George Soro’s money will still not stack up to the Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch’s media empire.
That is how our country will fail. Freedom of speech will be overwhelmed and the people will no longer have any say. That is what happens when the Republicans OWN the US Supreme Court.

How about the $16 billion in secret loan money given from the Federal Reserve to MSNBC’s parent company. How does that stack up?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-01/ge-borrowed-16-billion-in-commercial-paper-plan-fed-data-show.html

For your information, THAT news was never cover on MSNBC (or on Mediaite).

Also for your information, $16 billion is more than Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes COMBINED TOTAL NET WORTH.

So try again….
Joe Plesko

Gorgegirl said:
They aren’t a “lot more stingy with their money”, the only foundations you see which benefit education and the poor are Democrats. Take Bill Gates and Warren Buffitt for example. Instead of philanthropist work – the Republicans buy the US Supreme Court, Governors and congress., Now, the Koch brothers will do everything they can do to buy the presidency because their goal is to take away the voice of the American people and our freedoms.

What a whining baby. The leftists were always the ones who conducted Voter fraud and big money spenders buying elections not that the Supreme Court leveled the playing field they whine and cry, boo hoo Citizens United, boo hoo Koch Brothers.

Obie needs a billion dollars to try and buy this next election and everyone’s broke because of his policies. Why don’t you leftist drop out of the next election and give that campaign money to the poor or something. That’s what you people keep whining about.

Without your money you people are nothing. Boo hoo.
JMcCarthy

Maddow’s obsession of who’s raising the most money in this election cycle is just a distraction. Everyone knows democrats win elections by ‘helping’ the mentaly impaired elderly from old folks homes pull the lever in the voting booth, not to mention “community organizing” liberal zombies out of cemetary’s on election day. A bus rid and a Free Meal for every Illegal Alien’s vote or the Unions get a free car company (Dodge) for voting for obama. Or clear all the Bum’s off the streets on election day with a pack a cigeretts and bottle of cheap booz, ALL for just voting democrat. Democrats don’t need money only Republicans do. Isn’t Democracy wonderful!
Joe Plesko

2012freedom said:
That is so weird, I thought it was Geroge Soros.

I seem to remember that it’s Media Matters who is trying to take away the Freedom of speech and the leftists are trying to make the FCC stop people like Rush Limbaugh, Fox New, Glenn Beck and anyone who disagrees with their leftist policies. Al Sharpton’s been trying to silence Rush Limbaugh for years.2012freedom, Gorgegirl would silence you at a drop of a hat. She’s a hyp….. well you know.
Joe Plesko

The Lantern of Truth said:
Hey Rachel .

As Senator , Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and denounced it as a failure of leadership .

Do you see a story there , little lady ?

Obie promised to “lower the Seas” I just came back from the beach, the waves are still hitting the shore. So much for that!

Who IS Rachel Maddow anyway?
TheRealRoyalQueen

So Frances, you havea problem with Citizens United, but no problem with Media Matters.
Interesting….
ghjgbh

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Gorgegirl said:
Yes, union money is a pot put together by hardworking American people.

No… union money is the dues the union collects from hardworking Americans and decides for them, who they will support.
mlb

Gorgegirl said:
They aren’t a “lot more stingy with their money”, the only foundations you see which benefit education and the poor are Democrats. Take Bill Gates and Warren Buffitt for example. Instead of philanthropist work – the Republicans buy the US Supreme Court, Governors and congress., Now, the Koch brothers will do everything they can do to buy the presidency because their goal is to take away the voice of the American people and our freedoms.

I am just quoting facts… No the only foundations I see are NOT just democrats centric, nor are those who support the poor. If you are talking about federal dollars for social program they spend about the same.
You have the propensity to spout a lot of huge lofty statements none of which would ever stand up to facts or even reasonable logic. Take away the voice of the people – Republicans? seriously-I bet you didn’t even know who the Koch brothers were until 3 months ago.
Buy politicians – The Chicago way- I believe Blaggo was just convicted of trying to sell Obama’s seat.

So please enlighten me as to which Republicans bought the 2008 election that put democrats in charge of both Houses and the WH, or was that an accident or just George Soros and those overseas online donations that bought Obama?
chatmandu002

And yet Radical Madcow doesn’t mention the $1 Billion our Campaigner-in-Chief is trying to raise from his liberal/progressive/socialist well heeled friends.
X-3

chatmandu002 said:
And yet Radical Madcow doesn’t mention the $1 Billion our Campaigner-in-Chief is trying to raise from his liberal/progressive/socialist well heeled friends.

Of course not!

It’s good that Madcow (and the other libs) are afraid! We’re going to take back this country and elect people who honor and comply with the Consitution in 2012.

As for the Koch brothers making large donations, I would wager their contributions are not as large as those of organized labor, George Soros, and Jeff Immelt–ALL supporters of -0bama.
X-3

TheRealRoyalQueen said:
So Frances, you havea problem with Citizens United, but no problem with Media Matters.
Interesting….

Are you surprised? Really?
mlb

To Gorgegirl:
RE: To blame the current administration for the failure of the Bush administration and the national debt that was DOUBLED by them, is absolutely ludicrious.
Now, we are saddled with HUGE INTEREST ON THE BUSH DOUBLED NATIONAL DEBT>
It doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out. Try taking off your Republican hat and think like a human being.,

some stats: BTW – it isn’t the INTEREST- In nominal dollars the net public debt rose and then fell between 1992 and 2000 from $3T in 1992 to $3.4T in 2000. During the administration of President George W. Bush, the gross public debt increased from $5.7 trillion in January 2001 to $10.7 trillion by December 2008.[3] Under President Barack Obama, the debt increased from $10.7 trillion to $14.2 trillion by February 2011.[10]

Obama was a senator during a Democratic controlled senate, as well as President with the backing of both parties. He may not be responsible for every dollar up until he was elected but he sure as heck has no plan, has not even tried to cut the spending in any meaningful way and seems to volunteer our cash out to foreign countries without regard. The President cannot raise taxes, only the Congress. Try taking off your Democrat liberal hat and think like a rationale human being. So who is to blame? I would say a little of both parties can foot this enormous bill.
Pablo

“Why not instead give unlimited money that you don’t need to put your name on– why not starve the candidates and instead spend on outside groups?”

MoveOn.org? Never heard of ‘em, right Rach?
The Lantern of Truth

Table 3 needs a couple of Diet Cokes , Rachel honey .
david r

dhg said:
Then every single politician must be a conservative.

If you think any ideology doesn’t lie,cheat,distort and take advantage of the weaknesses in our system you are naive and frankly stupid.Take the blinders off and stop being a sheep.

You are wasting your time with Rokker. Every single post is a puerile put-down of the right not even remotely directed at any issue. The kind of post Lizzie is supposed to be doing something about, like the stupid spam ads.
Tedderman

In addition “Citizens united” has allowed millionaires and billionaires like the Koch brothers to become more than 90% of the funds raised by the Karl Rove groups. The money can then be aimed at any Democrat they target, while the uber wealthy remain silent assassins.