Republicans are deliberately sabotaging the U.S. economy.

So now he is backtracking? What a despicable bunch, he and his Republican colleagues.

Watch closely you can see his pants on fire.

Derpa Derp Derp

Of course establishment Republicans want to raise the debt ceiling. They are as bad as the communists………erm Democrats. They have their cronies they pay off just like the communists do. All placed on the backs of the taxpayers and taxpayers of the future.

See, Democrats have their welfare cronies on the teat of government and the Republicans have their welfare cronies on the teat of government.

Time for us taxpayers to just quit being the teat. Have you gone Galt yet? You better do it pretty soon.

possibly said:
Republicans are deliberately sabotaging the U.S. economy.

Republicans are deliberately controlling spending. If you think that spending borrowed money is good for the economy, you ought to move to Greece.

That’s because they’re not “talking” at all. What this country needs is one massive recall election. Clean out congress and start over.

The debt ceiling has been a talking point now for several months. I find it impossible to believe that the R Leader in the Senate didn’t know the outspoken views of his colleagues… ESPECIALLY the colleagues that are running for president…

The Republicans own the debt crisis scare

this guy is such a clown

It’s Bush’s fault again/still and will be forever as long as the empty suit manchild is in office. The next President will step up to the plate and lead;this one is just an idiot who points fingers and doesn’t have a clue what to do.

DavidKramer said:
Of course establishment Republicans want to raise the debt ceiling. They are as bad as the communists………erm Democrats. They have their cronies they pay off just like the communists do. All placed on the backs of the taxpayers and taxpayers of the future.

See, Democrats have their welfare cronies on the teat of government and the Republicans have their welfare cronies on the teat of government.

Time for us taxpayers to just quit being the teat. Have you gone Galt yet? You better do it pretty soon.

“Welfare cronies” might be the most hilarious term I’ve ever heard.

Especially when Republicans are giving away free tax cuts to millionaires. Basically giving away money that was supposed to come to the US.

As for Communism? Where have you seen communism ? Can you maybe go a little in-depth?

AmericaSucks said:
That’s because they’re not “talking” at all. What this country needs is one massive recall election. Clean out congress and start over.

AmericaSucks because of President Obama.

McConnell voted for all the Bush bills that bankrupted us – Medicare Pharma Welfare Part D, NCLB, Iraq War, DHS creation, TARP, tax cuts, 05 energy Bill, etc.

Now he and his GOP buds don’t want to pay for any of those bills.

MrTPar_taY said:
AmericaSucks because of President Obama.

Not surprising a Republican would say this, they don’t exactly fit in with America anymore.

Snowspot said:
Not surprising a Republican would say this, they don’t exactly fit in with America anymore.

AmericaSucks? Is this actually the nom de guerre of President Obama?

1. President Obama, is flying the flag upside down your way of predicting where you leading the country?

2. 9.2% Unemployment Rate. What’s the ceiling on that President Obama? AmericaSucks now because of your either a.) Stupidity or b.) A Vendetta you carry very close to your heart and are not telling us?

3. Is Hillary Clinton really as hot in person as she is on FOX?

AmericaSucks now because of President Obama.

Sarah Palin 2012!!!

MrTPar_taY
Sarah Palin 2012!!!

Is that her next bus tour or something?

yeah, bear really pressed mcconnel…um, excuse me mr. mcconnel, um, um, i think i heard miss bachmann say that.
no…nobody is saying that.
um, ok…if you say so.
what a hack.
at least wallace knows how to question a pol, even though he knows what side his network works for.

TfT said:
It’s Bush’s fault again/still and will be forever as long as the empty suit manchild is in office. The next President will step up to the plate and lead;this one is just an idiot who points fingers and doesn’t have a clue what to do.

Bushy-Boy – 61% of historians say he is the worst POTUS in US history.

http://hnn.us/articles/48916.html

You probably enjoy failure though.

Girth Brick said:
Bushy-Boy – 61% of historians say he is the worst POTUS in US history.

http://hnn.us/articles/48916.html

You probably enjoy failure though.

AmericaSucks says that President Obama SUCKS and that settles it!

Snowspot said:
Is that her next bus tour or something?

Sure is Beevis, gettin’ on board? LMFAO!

WOW

Mitch McConnell lies like Casey Anthony.

Rokker said:
WOW

Mitch McConnell lies like Casey Anthony.

AmericaSucks because of President Obama!

AmericaSucks said:
That’s because they’re not “talking” at all. What this country needs is one massive recall election. Clean out congress and start over.

AmericaSucks because of President Obama!

Sarah Palin 2012!

Snowspot said:
“Welfare cronies” might be the most hilarious term I’ve ever heard.

Especially when Republicans are giving away free tax cuts to millionaires. Basically giving away money that was supposed to come to the US.

As for Communism? Where have you seen communism ? Can you maybe go a little in-depth?

By the way, who shows up for such events like The Daily Show rally, ohhhhhhh, that would be socialists and communists. Geez and RICE!

Communism, the removal of individual PROPERTY rights and the collective use of the means of production.
Do I REALLY need to show you the communist party platform side by side with the democrat one?

DO I REALLY? Heck, the Leader of the Communist party only a decade ago jokingly said that the Democrats stole their party platform!

Let me EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO YOU. Taxes are NOT the government’s or the collective’s, it is who earned that money. When the PEOPLE vote in their representatives, they decide on the tax schedule. You can WHINE and SCREAM and STAMP your little feeties all you want, it is NOT YOUR MONEY! Get it?

We are NOT a communist/marxist country YET!

When I state welfare cronies, I include in that, the welfare people, the unions, the government workers, the crony corporations, the crony banks (you know, like the Maxine Waters one that got stimulus money.

Do you actually BELIEVE that if you steal EVERY dime from everyone that the government and this nation will continue to survive. It is a little thing called mathematics. You cannot steal more than is actually produced.

Why do I even bother?

Politicians who can’t stick to their convictions. Color me shocked.

This is why we need to vote libertarian, people. The third largest and fastest growing political party in the US and still untainted by corruption. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Austrian economics (true Capitalism).
Maximum personal and economic freedom.

Vote logic. Vote reason. Vote libertarian.

illusive man said:
Politicians who can’t stick to their convictions. Color me shocked.

This is why we need to vote libertarian, people. The third largest and fastest growing political party in the US and still untainted by corruption. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Austrian economics (true Capitalism).
Maximum personal and economic freedom.

Vote logic. Vote reason. Vote libertarian.

I call myself a Constitutional Libertarian. See, we are the true historically accurate liberals.

Liberals of today, progressives, democrats and Rinos are the communists and fascists. The Republicans and conservatives are catching on but slowly.

Of course we believe you, Mitch.

We know you don’t want the country to fail……..it’s just the WEALTHY you don’t want to fail.

DavidKramer said:
By the way, who shows up for such events like The Daily Show rally, ohhhhhhh, that would be socialists and communists. Geez and RICE!

Why do I even bother?

GOP Fascism is worse than any Democratic Party position. Don’t take my word for it – go with the top capitalists (who all support Obama).

I hear “communism” escape some dumb teabaggers lips and I know that person is incapable of reason.

illusive man said:
Austrian economics (true Capitalism).

.

Funny, the most famous Austrian economist hated conservatives. He wrote a famous essay on the subject –

http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46

Ayn Rand disliked conservatives as well. Both preferred liberals (like I do).

Girth Brick said:
GOP Fascism is worse than any Democratic Party position. Don’t take my word for it – go with the top capitalists (who all support Obama).

I hear “communism” escape some dumb teabaggers lips and I know that person is incapable of reason.

There is a difference between capitalists and the likes that back Obama, they are called crony capitalists, state capitalist, aka communists.

Large corporations cannot compete with smaller more mobile corporations without the regulations installed for the benefits of the larger corporations. See GE as example.

When a person attacks someone with an ad hominem or demagoguery they have lost the debate.

Thanks for your capitulation, next……………….

Girth Brick said:
GOP Fascism is worse than any Democratic Party position. Don’t take my word for it – go with the top capitalists (who all support Obama).

I hear “communism” escape some dumb teabaggers lips and I know that person is incapable of reason.

AmericaSucks said:
Hail Satan!

AmericaSucks because of President Obama.

Sarah Palin 2012!

Girth Brick said:
Funny, the most famous Austrian economist hated conservatives. He wrote a famous essay on the subject –

http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46

Ayn Rand disliked conservatives as well. Both preferred liberals (like I do).

By the way, you should ACTUALLY read the articles you post instead of actually attempting to state something that totally screws up your point. From YOUR link-

1. At a time when most movements that are thought to be progressive advocate further encroachments on individual liberty,[1] those who cherish freedom are likely to expend their energies in opposition. In this they find themselves much of the time on the same side as those who habitually resist change. In matters of current politics today they generally have little choice but to support the conservative parties. But, though the position I have tried to define is also often described as “conservative,” it is very different from that to which this name has been traditionally attached. There is danger in the confused condition which brings the defenders of liberty and the true conservatives together in common opposition to developments which threaten their ideals equally. It is therefore important to distinguish clearly the position taken here from that which has long been known – perhaps more appropriately – as conservatism.

DavidKramer said:
There is a difference between capitalists and the likes that back Obama, they are called crony capitalists, state capitalist, aka communists.

………….

You don’t know how ridiculous you are – calling people like Buffett, Gates, Jobs, Allen, Ellison, Google founders, etc all “communists” or cronies of Democrats.

We have two parties that are roughly equally statist and people like them just will not vote for the anti-personal freedom GOP. The ACLU exists to defend citizens against our Government and conservatives HATE THEM for it. It seems an oppressive government is something the right loves. Now crazy-ass Michele wants to ban porn and limit freedom of the press.

We true liberals and capitalists know this.

So, no sale. I love liberty and will never vote GOP – even if it costs me a point on taxes to pay for Bush’s mistakes.

TO THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE,

“Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm.”

Abraham Lincoln

Girth Brick said:
Funny, the most famous Austrian economist hated conservatives. He wrote a famous essay on the subject – http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46 Ayn Rand disliked conservatives as well. Both preferred liberals (like I do).

Typical uneducated modern “liberal”.

Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.[1]

Classical liberalism developed in the 19th century in Western Europe, and the Americas. Although classical liberalism built on ideas that had already developed by the end of the 18th century, it advocated a specific kind of society, government and public policy required as a result of the Industrial Revolution and urbanization.[2] Notable individuals who have contributed to classical liberalism include Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo.[3] It drew on the economics of Adam Smith, a psychological understanding of individual liberty, natural law and utilitarianism, and a belief in progress. Classical liberals established political parties that were called “liberal”, although in the United States classical liberalism came to dominate both existing major political parties.[1] There was a revival of interest in classical liberalism in the 20th century led by Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.[4]

That is what Ayn Rand and Friedrich Hayek was. The true liberals.
Not the abomination that modern “liberalism” is, what you are.
Don’t you know anything?
Do you have ZERO grasp of history?
Are you capable of learning anything at all? Silly question, your a “liberal”, of course you can’t.
Did you even read the post you linked?
Can you read?

You are useless flesh, a “liberal”, nothing more.

illusive man said:
Typical uneducated modern “liberal”.

Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.[1]

Classical liberalism developed in the 19th century in Western Europe, and the Americas. Although classical liberalism built on ideas that had already developed by the end of the 18th century, it advocated a specific kind of society, government and public policy required as a result of the Industrial Revolution and urbanization.[2] Notable individuals who have contributed to classical liberalism include Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo.[3] It drew on the economics of Adam Smith, a psychological understanding of individual liberty, natural law and utilitarianism, and a belief in progress. Classical liberals established political parties that were called “liberal”, although in the United States classical liberalism came to dominate both existing major political parties.[1] There was a revival of interest in classical liberalism in the 20th century led by Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.[4]

That is what Ayn Rand and Friedrich Hayek was. The true liberals.
Not the abomination that modern “liberalism” is, what you are.
Don’t you know anything?
Do you have ZERO grasp of history?
Are you capable of learning anything at all? Silly question, your a “liberal”, of course you can’t.
Did you even read the post you linked?
Can you read?

You are useless flesh, a “liberal”, nothing more.

Wow, that’s a lot of huffing and puffing. Got any original ideas in your repertoire, or are you all worn out from your heavy breathing?

illusive man said:
Typical uneducated modern “liberal”. Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.[1] Classical liberalism developed in the 19th century in Western Europe, and the Americas. Although classical liberalism built on ideas that had already developed by the end of the 18th century, it advocated a specific kind of society, government and public policy required as a result of the Industrial Revolution and urbanization.[2] Notable individuals who have contributed to classical liberalism include Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo.[3] It drew on the economics of Adam Smith, a psychological understanding of individual liberty, natural law and utilitarianism, and a belief in progress. Classical liberals established political parties that were called “liberal”, although in the United States classical liberalism came to dominate both existing major political parties.[1] There was a revival of interest in classical liberalism in the 20th century led by Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.[4] That is what Ayn Rand and Friedrich Hayek was. The true liberals.Not the abomination that modern “liberalism” is, what you are.Don’t you know anything?Do you have ZERO grasp of history?Are you capable of learning anything at all? Silly question, your a “liberal”, of course you can’t.Did you even read the post you linked?Can you read? You are useless flesh, a “liberal”, nothing more.

How sad is it that this Girth guy doesn’t know the difference between a classical liberal (in the form of tommy “least government is the best government” jefferson) and a modern liberal? He actually votes.

Hey Girth, pick up a history book will ya before you embarrass yourself more?

AmericaSucks said:
Wow, that’s a lot of huffing and puffing. Got any original ideas in your repertoire, or are you all worn out from your heavy breathing?

Illusive man just schooled you and Girth Brick you didn’t even realize it.

AmericaSucks = example of public school education

Girth Brick said:
So, no sale. I love liberty and will never vote GOP – even if it costs me a point on taxes to pay for Bush’s mistakes.

Typical,

You would simply concede and pay “a point,” than use your God Given initiative to find a solution.

illusive man said:
Typical uneducated modern “liberal”.

Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.[1]

Classical liberalism developed in the 19th century in Western Europe, and the Americas. Although classical liberalism built on ideas that had already developed by the end of the 18th century, it advocated a specific kind of society, government and public policy required as a result of the Industrial Revolution and urbanization.[2] Notable individuals who have contributed to classical liberalism include Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo.[3] It drew on the economics of Adam Smith, a psychological understanding of individual liberty, natural law and utilitarianism, and a belief in progress. Classical liberals established political parties that were called “liberal”, although in the United States classical liberalism came to dominate both existing major political parties.[1] There was a revival of interest in classical liberalism in the 20th century led by Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.[4]

That is what Ayn Rand and Friedrich Hayek was. The true liberals.
Not the abomination that modern “liberalism” is, what you are.
Don’t you know anything?
Do you have ZERO grasp of history?
Are you capable of learning anything at all? Silly question, your a “liberal”, of course you can’t.
Did you even read the post you linked?
Can you read?

You are useless flesh, a “liberal”, nothing more.

They do not even know where individual liberty and property comes from. Try and tell them about how Natural Law is based upon religious beliefs and they get all apoplectic.

Heck, he brings up GATES for God’s sake. Without even realizing that Microsoft was attacked by the government and FORCED to pay billions in fines for not paying their crony dues. Now he tries to state that because GATES has to give to the Democrat party that is a sign that it is not a form of communism or fascism.

Ignorance and stupidity is not a very nice thing to see.

AmericaSucks said:
Wow, that’s a lot of huffing and puffing. Got any original ideas in your repertoire, or are you all worn out from your heavy breathing?

AmericaSucks because of President Obama but President Obama being the ‘ALIBI IKE of his time thinks AmericaSucks because it’s a fruitcake.

Sarah Palin 2012!

GreyGoose said:
Illusive man just schooled you and Girth Brick you didn’t even realize it.

AmericaSucks = example of public school education

Dear lord, not this routine again.

I won’t go into the details, but suffice it to say you’re off the mark, lady.

AmericaSucks said:
Wow, that’s a lot of huffing and puffing. Got any original ideas in your repertoire, or are you all worn out from your heavy breathing?

ILLUSIVE,

DON’T, don’t engage him! You wrote an excellent piece. Let it stand on merit alone.

Purveyor

MrTPar_taY said:
AmericaSucks because of President Obama but President Obama being the ‘ALIBI IKE of his time thinks AmericaSucks because it’s a fruitcake.

Sarah Palin 2012!

In English, please.

purveyor said:
ILLUSIVE,

DON’T, don’t engage him! You wrote an excellent piece. Let it stand on merit alone.

Purveyor

Oh, poor Perv-Eeyore. Your sadsack eyes just can’t turn away from the shiny metal object that is my avatar.

Poor widdle baby.

AmericaSucks said:
Dear lord, not this routine again. I won’t go into the details, but suffice it to say you’re off the mark, lady.

Well put your brain where your mouth is and refute what illusive man had to say. Or can’t you?

illusive man said:
Typical uneducated modern “liberal”.

Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.[1]

.

And us classic liberals like Hayek and Rand will never vote conservative.

Look at Soros (who spoke at Cato recently) – there is no better classic liberal on the planet. He spends billions fighting communism in Eastern Europe. Soros supports ending the War on Drugs, euthanasia, free movement of people across borders, open markets and free trade – he is a capitalist/libertarian all the way and has written eleven books on capitalism.

But like Rand and Hayek he hates the fascistic war-loving Christian domination GOP – millions of us do.

Here you go pal – the editors and writers at REASON magazine (biggest LP magazine) voted Obama over McCain 14-7 in 2008!

http://reason.com/archives/2008/10/29/whos-getting-your-vote

Face it – classic liberals voted for Obama – as well as many libertarians.

AmericaSucks said:
Dear lord, not this routine again. I won’t go into the details, but suffice it to say you’re off the mark, lady.

Surely you’ve got an original idea on the subject of classical liberalism

Girth Brick said:
And us classic liberals like Hayek and Rand will never vote conservative. Look at Soros (who spoke at Cato recently) – there is no better classic liberal on the planet. He spends billions fighting communism in Eastern Europe. Soros supports ending the War on Drugs, euthanasia, free movement of people across borders, open markets and free trade – he is a capitalist/libertarian all the way and has written eleven books on capitalism. But like Rand and Hayek he hates the fascistic war-loving Christian domination GOP – millions of us do. Here you go pal – the editors and writers at REASON magazine (biggest LP magazine) voted Obama over McCain 14-7 in 2008! http://reason.com/archives/2008/10/29/whos-getting-your-vote Face it – classic liberals voted for Obama – as well as many libertarians.

Soros is anything but free market. Dude uses his billions to manipulate the free market in order to enrich imself (you know, like modern day liberals do [Al Gore, everyone on Wall Street, Raines . . .])

GreyGoose said:
How sad is it that this Girth guy doesn’t know the difference between a classical liberal (in the form of tommy “least government is the best government” jefferson) and a modern liberal? He actually votes.

Hey Girth, pick up a history book will ya before you embarrass yourself more?

And Shit-For Brains Grey Goose can’t get over the fact that classic liberals hate conservatives!

Hayek and Rand – classic liberal enough for you?

Rand called Reagan “the enemy of freedom”.

Here is another libertarian who hates conservatives http://flyoverlibertarian.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-i-am-not-conservative.html

Girth Brick said:
And Shit-For Brains Grey Goose can’t get over the fact that classic liberals hate conservatives! Hayek and Rand – classic liberal enough for you? Rand called Reagan “the enemy of freedom”. Here is another libertarian who hates conservatives http://flyoverlibertarian.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-i-am-not-conservative.html

So, you can’t explain the difference between a classical liberal & a modern day lib, so you attack people personally. Dude, just say that the the difference between the two is way beyond your comprehension instead of attacking people.

DavidKramer said:
They do not even know where individual liberty and property comes from. Try and tell them about how Natural Law is based upon religious beliefs and they get all apoplectic.

Heck, he brings up GATES for God’s sake. Without even realizing that Microsoft was attacked by the government and FORCED to pay billions in fines for not paying their crony dues. Now he tries to state that because GATES has to give to the Democrat party that is a sign that it is not a form of communism or fascism.

Ignorance and stupidity is not a very nice thing to see.

Because “natural law” is a theocrats lie to tell others how to behave. There is no such thing as “natural law” – if so list all the “natural” laws please.

whenever that bromide is spouted I know a conservative is about to limit my freedom.

GreyGoose said:
So, you can’t explain the difference between a classical liberal & a modern day lib, so you attack people personally. Dude, just say that the the difference between the two is way beyond your comprehension instead of attacking people.

Most classic liberals voted for Obama – you’re the one that keeps dry-humping the Straw Man on some other faction of the liberal base.

Again – look at the guys at REASON Magazine.

http://reason.com/archives/2008/10/29/whos-getting-your-vote

Do you need someone to READ IT TO YOU?

Girth Brick said:
Most classic liberals voted for Obama – you’re the one that keeps dry-humping the Straw Man on some other faction of the liberal base. Again – look at the guys at REASON Magazine. http://reason.com/archives/2008/10/29/whos-getting-your-vote Do you need someone to READ IT TO YOU?

Who in the hell asked about Reason Mag & Obama? (besides you) But to crush your point, Obama actually campaigned to the Right of GWB in 08. Its why so many moderates voted for him. Of course, the campaigning Obama & the President were VASTLY different. I’m sure ZERO Reason editors would vote for this failure now.

But to get back to the original pont: I know dude, it tough. One needs to know what he’s talking about to distinguish the difference, so I understand why you can do it.

Maybe America should vote Libertarian, it couldn’t be worse than what’s happening now. Both main parties are so corrupt, that ultimately, it really doesn’t matter if Obama or whichever miscellaneous Republican gets in. They’ll both do the same thing, bankrupt the country, while their buddies clean up all the cash. They must love all you idiots arguing about which is the lesser evil, while they pick your pockets, and wheel the elderly off cliffs.

HEY PROUD CANADIAN,

How about the treatment Ann Coulter received when was scheduled give a speech at a Canadian Campus? The Free Speech Police and the Human Rights Tribunal, coupled with the Campus Provost, all threatened her with arrest ‘before’ she gave the speech!

Yes, I’d be proud too, were I too have a Government like that. Unfortunately, there is a definite plurality in this Country called Socialist-Liberal-Progressives, that would love such a thing.

However, as our forefathers did, the Conservatives of today are fighting back against TYRANNY!

Oh yeah, I am going to the gun range tomorrow to shoot my Colt Pistol. Something you can’t do.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

purveyor said:
HEY PROUD CANADIAN,

How about the treatment Ann Coulter received when was scheduled give a speech at a Canadian Campus? The Free Speech Police and the Human Rights Tribunal, coupled with the Campus Provost, all threatened her with arrest ‘before’ she gave the speech!

Yes, I’d be proud too, were I too have a Government like that. Unfortunately, there is a definite plurality in this Country called Socialist-Liberal-Progressives, that would love such a thing.

However, as our forefathers did, the Conservatives of today are fighting back against TYRANNY!

Oh yeah, I am going to the gun range tomorrow to shoot my Colt Pistol. Something you can’t do.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Well, we’re Canada, not the US. We’re not perfect, that’s for sure, but I’ll hold our human rights record up against yours any day of the week. Guantanamo Bay, anybody? And enjoy your time at the gun range, playing with your toy…maybe after you’re done, compare our death by firearm record to yours. I’d rather not have to worry about getting shot on my way to pick up my kid at school, thanks very much.

ProudCanadian said:
Well, we’re Canada, not the US. We’re not perfect, that’s for sure, but I’ll hold our human rights record up against yours any day of the week. Guantanamo Bay, anybody? And enjoy your time at the gun range, playing with your toy…maybe after you’re done, compare our death by firearm record to yours. I’d rather not have to worry about getting shot on my way to pick up my kid at school, thanks very much.

trade freedom for security huh, canadian you bet

cjd ohio 1 said:
trade freedom for security huh, canadian you bet

Yeah, like you guys are so free, while your government sells out your country from beneath you. America is so free, that it had to institute the Patriot Act, which totally doesn’t trample all over your rights and liberties, right? Freedom for security, you hypocrite? And we can own guns as well, we just don’t see the need to strap ‘em on before we go to Walmart.

ProudCanadian said:
Well, we’re Canada, not the US. We’re not perfect, that’s for sure, but I’ll hold our human rights record up against yours any day of the week. Guantanamo Bay, anybody? And enjoy your time at the gun range, playing with your toy…maybe after you’re done, compare our death by firearm record to yours. I’d rather not have to worry about getting shot on my way to pick up my kid at school, thanks very much.

They have freedom up there…Thanks to the U.S. Shit, the USSR would’ve crossed the Artic & made Canada another of its “republics” if it wasn’t for the U.S. military.

BTW, their Prime Minister cut taxes & continued the “drill baby drill” campaign and guess what is happening to their economy? Its growing faster than any other Western nation.

The entire world realizes that big gernment is/was detrimental to economic growth…well, everyone EXCEPT Obama and Hugo Chavez

ProudCanadian said:
Yeah, like you guys are so free, while your government sells out your country from beneath you. America is so free, that it had to institute the Patriot Act, which totally doesn’t trample all over your rights and liberties, right? Freedom for security, you hypocrite? And we can own guns as well, we just don’t see the need to strap ‘em on before we go to Walmart.

Don’t make us send the Boy Scouts up there to take your country over. lol

So, hey Mitch, are you telling me that the 100 times I ahve seen and heard republicans say, on the floor of the House that they are not going to raise the debt ceiling, I really didn’t see or hear them? Man, these republicans really think the American people are plum dumb stupid!

dhampton100 said:
So, hey Mitch, are you telling me that the 100 times I ahve seen and heard republicans say, on the floor of the House that they are not going to raise the debt ceiling, I really didn’t see or hear them? Man, these republicans really think the American people are plum dumb stupid!

Anyone with a little intelligence understands that McConnell means that the GOP wont raise the Debt ceIling UNLESS drastic changes are made in the spending.” You know? The spending that’s bankrupting our country and will hit our children & grandchildren very hard. But who cares are those brats…as long as we’re getting ours.

McConnell later admitted he’s been suffering from alzheimer’s disease for some time now. It’s what endears him to those he serves in Kentucky.

Tedderman said:
McConnell later admitted he’s been suffering from alzheimer’s disease for some time now. It’s what endears him to those he serves in Kentucky.

once again, a liberal shows the hate, jealousy and contempt that fills them.

GreyGoose said:

BTW, their Prime Minister cut taxes & continued the “drill baby drill” campaign and guess what is happening to their economy? Its growing faster than any other Western nation.

The US under Obama produces far more crude oil than Canada does and production is growing faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

Over twice as much – you know so little for someone who thinks otherwise.

Girth Brick said:
And us classic liberals like Hayek and Rand will never vote conservative. Look at Soros (who spoke at Cato recently) – there is no better classic liberal on the planet. He spends billions fighting communism in Eastern Europe. Soros supports ending the War on Drugs, euthanasia, free movement of people across borders, open markets and free trade – he is a capitalist/libertarian all the way and has written eleven books on capitalism. But like Rand and Hayek he hates the fascistic war-loving Christian domination GOP – millions of us do. Here you go pal – the editors and writers at REASON magazine (biggest LP magazine) voted Obama over McCain 14-7 in 2008! http://reason.com/archives/2008/10/29/whos-getting-your-vote Face it – classic liberals voted for Obama – as well as many libertarians.

Fool, classic liberals are modern libertarians. Neither of which you are, foolish modern “liberal”.
You also need to keep up with the times.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonTV

Tell me modern”liberal” who thinks it’s a classic liberal, Do you actually agree with Hayek’s economic theory?
(Bonus) his theory is in rap form. So you don’t get bored and tune out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc&feature=related

ProudCanadian said:
Well, we’re Canada, not the US. We’re not perfect, that’s for sure, but I’ll hold our human rights record up against yours any day of the week. Guantanamo Bay, anybody? And enjoy your time at the gun range, playing with your toy…maybe after you’re done, compare our death by firearm record to yours. I’d rather not have to worry about getting shot on my way to pick up my kid at school, thanks very much.

I CONCLUDED that the Guantanamo Bay Facility was/is a FINE idea. But cowards always hide under the blanket of freedom provided by others. Don’t They, CANADIAN?

As for my Pistol, at least for now, my Government trusts me. Need I say more?

Now, How about your Spooky “Human Rights Commission” which is Orwellian Doublespeak!

So much for our “good friends” to the North.

They never did send back the Draft Dodgers.

illusive man said:
Fool, classic liberals are modern libertarians.

Liberals and Libertarians have far more in common than the LP and conservatives do.

Rand and Hayek agree.

You can’t see it because you are a conservative. We liberals despise the anti-freedom right wing.

Remember, the Middle East is conservative. There have been many attempts to “liberalize” it by enlightened Arabs/Persians much like Ataturk did with Turkey

purveyor said:
I CONCLUDED that the Guantanamo Bay Facility was/is a FINE idea. But cowards always hide under the blanket of freedom provided by others. Don’t They, CANADIAN?

As for my Pistol, at least for now, my Government trusts me. Need I say more?

Now, How about your Spooky “Human Rights Commission” which is Orwellian Doublespeak!

How can any one “CONCLUDE” that a prison facility specifically designed to circumvent pesky things the Geneva Convention and basic human rights is a fine idea, is beyond me. And while it’s nice to be on good terms with a country that has the largest arms build-up in the world, we don’t need America for protection, as we’re a friendly country, and pretty much every country seems to think the sun shines out of our butts.

It’s cute that your government let’s you carry arms for now, while they also have one ear listening in on your phone, you know, just in case. As for Human Rights…I hardly think that not letting a comedian like Ann Coulter not speak is a bad thing, maybe just an over-reaction. The US on the other hand…where do you start? The Death Penalty, no government health care program, they were even kicked off the UN Human Rights Commission in 2001 for a year! Pretty sad.

Just like when Senator Obama voted ‘NO’ on raising the debt limit under Pres. Bush, clearly the majority will vote on a compromise knowing that some will vote against it.

Seems pretty clear that Geitner is giving a ‘false due date’ for the magic due date. The US government should not wait this long, but politics seems to trump sacred responsibility.

ProudCanadian said:
The Death Penalty, no government health care program, they were even kicked off the UN Human Rights Commission in 2001 for a year! Pretty sad.

Actually, very awesome. Why don’t you run along to stand in line for some of that Government health care.

2012freedom said:
Actually, very awesome. Why don’t you run along to stand in line for some of that Government health care.

Sure, our system could be better…but it’s better than 52 million without any health insurance. Ask them if they’d rather have our system, dimwit.

Girth Brick said:
Liberals and Libertarians have far more in common than the LP and conservatives do. Rand and Hayek agree. You can’t see it because you are a conservative. We liberals despise the anti-freedom right wing. Remember, the Middle East is conservative. There have been many attempts to “liberalize” it by enlightened Arabs/Persians much like Ataturk did with Turkey

*snicker*
I noticed in all your mindless rambling you didn’t answer my question.
Are you going to answer my question? Can you answer my question? Do you know how to answer a question? Without lying or making things up? Well, can you?

Girth Brick said:
Liberals and Libertarians have far more in common than the LP and conservatives do. Rand and Hayek agree. Turkey

Ok, “liberal”, this is the libertarian party platform. I want you to READ IT AND UNDSTAND IT and tell me if you agree with it like I do.
And please, if you can, just answer the questuion.

Preamble
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person’s right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.

Statement of Principles
We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life — accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action — accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property — accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

1.0 Personal Liberty

Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual’s right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.

1.1 Expression and Communication

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

1.2 Personal Privacy

Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons,
homes, and property. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held
by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. Only actions that infringe on the rights
of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without
victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

1.3 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the
government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,
immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or
restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices
and personal relationships.

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

1.5 Crime and Justice

Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution of the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. We oppose reduction of constitutional safeguards of the rights of the criminally accused. The rights of due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must not be denied. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.

1.6 Self-Defense

The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired
property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by
any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment
to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense.
We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the
ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.

2.0 Economic Liberty

Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic
success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each
person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of
government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a
legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute
wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

2.1 Property and Contract

Property rights are entitled to the same protection as all other human rights. The owners of property have the full right to control, use, dispose of, or in any manner enjoy, their property without interference, until and unless the exercise of their control infringes the valid rights of others. We oppose all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates. We advocate the repeal of all laws banning or restricting the advertising of prices, products, or services. We oppose all violations of the right to private property, liberty of contract, and freedom of trade. The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever. Where property, including land, has been taken from its rightful owners by the government or private action in violation of individual rights, we favor restitution to the rightful owners.

2.2 Environment

We support a clean and healthy environment and sensible use of our natural resources. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Pollution and misuse of resources cause damage to our ecosystem. Governments, unlike private businesses, are unaccountable for such damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights in resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. We realize that our planet’s climate is constantly changing, but environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.

2.3 Energy and Resources

While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

2.4 Government Finance and Spending

All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a “Balanced Budget Amendment” to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes.

2.5 Money and Financial Markets

We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository
institutions of all types. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money
any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies and
unconstitutional legal tender laws.

2.6 Monopolies and Corporations

We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.

2.7 Labor Markets

We support repeal of all laws which impede the ability of any person to find employment. We oppose government-fostered forced retirement. We support the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions, and an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union. We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

2.8 Education

Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement. Recognizing that the education of children is inextricably linked to moral values, we would return authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. In particular, parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.

2.9 Health Care

We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of
individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want, the level of health care they want,
the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of
their medical care, including end-of-life decisions. People should be free to purchase health
insurance across state lines.

2.10 Retirement and Income Security

Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would
phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private
voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts
of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become more charitable and
civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.

3.0 Securing Liberty

The protection of individual rights is the only proper purpose of government. Government is constitutionally limited so as to prevent the infringement of individual rights by the government itself. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide the relationships between governments.

3.1 National Defense

We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression.
The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as
policeman for the world. We oppose any form of compulsory national service.

3.2 Internal Security and Individual Rights

The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter
threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil
liberties of our citizens. The Constitution and Bill of Rights shall not be suspended even during time
of war. Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be
subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government’s use of secret classifications to
keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the
government has violated the law.

3.3 International Affairs

American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world. Our foreign policy should
emphasize defense against attack from abroad and enhance the likelihood of peace by avoiding
foreign entanglements. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention,
including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and
defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of
terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by
political or revolutionary groups.

3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape
from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the
crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human
as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into
our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property.

3.5 Rights and Discrimination

We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual’s rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.

3.6 Representative Government

We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.

3.7 Self-Determination

Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty.

4.0 Omissions

Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval.

http://www.lp.org/

ProudCanadian said:
Sure, our system could be better…but it’s better than 52 million without any health insurance. Ask them if they’d rather have our system, dimwit.

Oh, so now it is 52 million? The number changes all the time depending on how desperate they want the situation to sound. Sometimes they even say people are dying in the streets. Thanks anyway but I will keep our healthcare.

An understanding of McConnell and his role being essential, I look forward to an even accounting of the man and his efforts. He should not.

ProudCanadian said:
Doublespeak!
How can any one “CONCLUDE” that a prison facility specifically designed to circumvent pesky things the Geneva Convention and basic human rights is a fine idea

Ohh, the Swiss, they are about as useless as those Canadians. In fact, Switzerland is where I hope they send the UN. Moreover, I didn’t see how many Cut throat Muslims, Canada wanted to take care of. You didn’t volunteer.

Thats right, you are sympathetic to the bad guys, aren’t you?

2012freedom said:
Oh, so now it is 52 million? The number changes all the time depending on how desperate they want the situation to sound. Sometimes they even say people are dying in the streets. Thanks anyway but I will keep our healthcare.

Well, the number does change frequently, since your companies farm out all the jobs to Asia, and the corrupt government isn’t doing it’s job, to bring down unemployment.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-16/americans-without-health-insurance-rose-to-52-million-on-job-loss-expense.html

It’s obvious that you don’t really care, since you have the typical American mentality of, ” I’m okay, so screw everyone else”. You know, it’s not that 52,000,000 people are lazy, just that sometimes, bad stuff happens. It’s just sad that the leaders of the nation can’t stop bickering long enough to fix the problem. That’s way America has become such a second-class country.

purveyor said:
Ohh, the Swiss, they are about as useless as those Canadians. In fact, Switzerland is where I hope they send the UN. Moreover, I didn’t see how many Cut throat Muslims, Canada wanted to take care of. You didn’t volunteer.

Thats right, you are sympathetic to the bad guys, aren’t you?

You’re a pretty simple fellow. Who’s even talking about the Swiss? This discussion is about the US, and the hypocritical criticism that Canada is poor on Human Rights, when the US is pretty terrible itself. And we’re not sympathetic to the bad guys…remember Rwanda? No oil there, so the United States didn’t give a crap, and even wanted the UN to pull out the troops. I believe Canada was pretty big on humanitarian aid, though.

“And it shall come to pass… Your old men will dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.”

Joel, 2:28 @ Acts 2:17

ProudCanadian said:
You’re a pretty simple fellow. Who’s even talking about the Swiss?

You brought up the Geneva Convention… “Simple” ?

2012freedom said:
Oh, so now it is 52 million? The number changes all the time depending on how desperate they want the situation to sound. Sometimes they even say people are dying in the streets. Thanks anyway but I will keep our healthcare.

Are you forgetting about all the people who lost jobs since the lower number was introduced? In 2008 it was around 49,000. With the numbers of jobs lost that we have experienced in 2008 and early 2009, the numbers who no longer had jobs and insurance have jumped. Rarely can anyone laid off afford Cobra to keep their coverage. Therefore they end up among the numbers of uninsured.

purveyor says:

“And it shall come to pass… Your old men will dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.”

Joel, 2:28 @ Acts 2:17

“and lo they did eat the mushrooms,” book of Cosmos 4:22

CosmosDan said:
“and lo they did eat the mushrooms,” book of Cosmos 4:22

Psilosybin?

Yes, the last time was waay back in 1989.

Quote (paraphrase)

“Mushrooms are long slow journey, Acid is like being shot out of a cannon.”

Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

ProudCanadian said:
That’s way America has become such a second-class country.

LOL. Compared to Canada? You can’t be serious. People don’t come from all over the world for the great healthcare in Canada now do they? Nope. They head straight to the US.

McConnell and Boehner had better wake up to the fact that the majority of Americans don’t want the tax ceiling raised. If these two jerks can’t see the obvious, they don’t need to be in Washington! We’ve had more than enough of their compromising us into bankruptcy. Raising the debt ceiling automatically translates into higher taxes. A situation that will not be tolerated!

felixw said:
Republicans are deliberately controlling spending. If you think that spending borrowed money is good for the economy, you ought to move to Greece.

you mean by spending on wars..

yep

DavidKramer said:
See, Democrats have their welfare cronies on the teat of government and the Republicans have their welfare cronies on the teat of government.

Well let me educate you on entitlement programs

They are ENTITLEMENT programs, meaning one , who is a citizen is entitled to it because THEY PAY FOR IT.

You can’t simply cut them by removing them, its not going to work. But here is a suggestion..

Work on departments that we don’t need to survive, like NASA, or DoD or DoE..

mcconnell is a liar. He has been threatening the President and the Democrats with refusing to raise the debt limit ceiling. I really don’t give a dam anymore what they do. As long as he and boner pay my social security installment each month. That’s all I’ve got.

carlinist said:
Well let me educate you on entitlement programs

They are ENTITLEMENT programs, meaning one , who is a citizen is entitled to it because THEY PAY FOR IT.

You can’t simply cut them by removing them, its not going to work. But here is a suggestion..

Work on departments that we don’t need to survive, like NASA, or DoD or DoE..

That is a bit of a stretch. Another sentence or two would clarify your position. However, I get your point. Agreement, not so much.

Hmmmm, ‘just ELIMINATE all Social Security Benefits, Pensions, Federal Backing(FDIC) to all banks and, all Taxes’ as a starting point! Then we can move on to the Complete Elimination of All Govertnmental Departments as well………..lets see how the Wolves(people) react after about 90days!?!?!?

illusive man,
Add my vote to those who say liberals have more in common with libertarians than conservatives do.
You may disagree, or course, but I am willing to compromise and say we liberals have at least as much in common with libertarians as conservatives do.

Basically, the conservatives have decided that we all must be heterosexual Christians whose parents and grandparents were born in the United States. They intend to impose and enforce very strict moral codes via laws and constitutional amendments. Any deviation from these requirements is to be punished, or at least denied a political voice. (I may be exaggerating on that ancestry part, but not the rest.)
I can see where the conservative claim that they believe in small government is attractive to libertarians, but to turn a blind eye to the repressive social and religious demands is unacceptable.

I see us liberals (note the liber, meaning free, in both philosophies) as being practical libertarians. We recognize that some military and para-military (police and fire departments) are needed. This requires that taxes be paid to cover the services provided, and no ideological argument can say that we need such protections but do not need to pay for them. As Ben Franklin said, nothing is certain but death and taxes.

As for absolute absence of government, that is what Karl Marx intended. You and I don’t like his methods for getting there, but you do agree with his ultimate goal. It is a utopia that no “ism” can ever achieve. Pure Libertarianism is impractical and impossible. There will always be a need for some form of government. You cannot name a place or time in history where people were secure in their possessions and security without a government, and liberals are at least willing to let you make your own decisions about your personal relationships.

Here is were liberals do differ from libertarians the most. We see that groups can be more powerful, in a positive way, than individuals can. For example, government regulations do force those who would pollute to cease and desist in ways that “personal interest” will not. I know you need proof of this because believe that land owners will not pollute their own land, so it must not be happening. Wrong! Tall smokestacks were built to carry the air pollution away from the factory and toward anyone else. When there is no policing of toxic wastes, the factory owner will dump those wastes on other people’s land when the other people are not looking. You are in more danger of being poisoned by an unscrupulous businessman than being robbed by a burglar.

Monopolies form naturally when businesses are not regulated. The robber barons of the late 1800′s fixed prices and sabotaged the efforts of others who tried to compete with them. You should read up on the tactics of John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil to see just how bad it can be!

ILLUSIVE MAN and GEORGE L

I have Posted this before:

“The Conservatives want to be in your Bedroom and Doctors Office and the Liberals want to be in your wallet and schools.

All of the above would be nice.

The accompanying Religiosity of Conservatism, is that ideologies, albatross. Furthermore, have either of you read John Stuart Mill’s essay, “On Liberty?” That is the iconic book on Libertarian philosophy.

Were the Republican/Conservatives to abandon occasional Governance, by Religious Caprice, they would be far closer to Libertarian ideals.

Purveyor

Sen. McConnell: ‘Nobody Is Talking About Not Raising The Debt Ceiling’ In Congress

WRONG Mitch! You should listen to what my Congrssman and 2 Senators are saying.

ProudCanadian said:
and wheel the elderly off cliffs.

I have read several of your posts in this thread and have basically come to the conclusion that you’re as full of crap as a Christmas goose.

Just a note on Canadian healthcare vs. our current system: If your healthcare system is so good, why then are people coming from Canada to receive care in the US?

This post is to illusive man

So now I’ve read it. And of course there are Libertarian principles that “Liberals” will agree with. And there are Libertarian principles “Conservatives” will agree with. It is a nice document, could it ever fully work? I doubt it. You know almost everyone loves the notion of “freedom”. And I would guess “freedom” means different things to different individuals. My problem is my cynicism. Wouldn’t it be lovely if everyone shared your beliefs in “justice” and “fair play”? Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was “non-aggresive”, as you wished they would be? Wouldn’t it be nice if there weren’t any thieves or murderers or any criminals, for that matter? Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was caring and giving? Wouldn’t it be nice if I would stop with this fantasy BS? My point is simple, I don’t trust those with Power and Money to do the right thing. I believe in the “Force of Greed”. I believe that ther are many in society that will prey on the weaker members of society. I believe there are many who will abuse their power. I believe there are many who will feel no compunction in using their fellow citizens as chattle. And I look to Government to protect the rights of all it’s citizens. Not just the wealthy. Although I must say, I believe the Justice system, in this country, favors those with money, over those without. In fact, in almost everywalk of life, in this society, “Wealth” has it’s priviledge. I look to Government to assist those who really need help.(And now I am obliged to insert an example even most Conservatives can understand)… In our current state of affairs I believe the Govrenment OWES assistance, and substantial assistance, to anyone who has been sent into a war zone, for defense of this country and returns home missing limbs, severe head injuries or any injuries which prevents them functioning in society normally, as they had prior to being injured. We do not live in a perfect world so anyone ignorant enough to argue that no form of government assistance in any circumstance should be given, is quite simply to ignorant to argue with, and quite frankly should be sent into the military.

So your asperations are noble, but I fear they are impractical. Everyone wants to live in a perfect society, but the reality is, nothing is perfect. This is a concept that escapes the Conservatives. And perfection, just as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

X-3 said:
Just a note on Canadian healthcare vs. our current system: If your healthcare system is so good, why then are people coming from Canada to receive care in the US?

Touche’ LOL

purveyor said:
I have Posted this before:

“The Conservatives want to be in your Bedroom and Doctors Office and the Liberals want to be in your wallet and schools.

All of the above would be nice.

I’d like to clarify this, if I may? I should have preceded the “all of the above would be nice,” comment, with
‘OUT OF’–”all of the above would be nice.”

That was/is my point, both parties declare, they are reasoned and logical. That is Until, “THEIR ox is gored.”

Thank you

Bruce said:
So your asperations are noble, but I fear they are impractical. Everyone wants to live in a perfect society, but the reality is, nothing is perfect. This is a concept that escapes the Conservatives. And perfection, just as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Say X3, as Bruce’s letter was sent to ILLUSIVE MAN, only, apparently commentary is not desired.

Maybe, if I/we simply comment on the Post, to each other only, not BRUCE, that would be OK? Here goes.

I am, with good reason, concerned about how America’s Socialist-Democrats are, and will achieve their version of a “perfect society.”

“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” and the posterity of Marx and Lenin have what I see as a very unpleasant perception of socio-political “beauty.

Purveyor

Purveyor you misunderstood. I did not put “this post is for ILLUSIVE MAN”, at the top of my post to stifle commentary. I merely did it to clarify which post I was responding to. I never want to stifle commentary.

BRUCE,

Sometimes sarcasm and the Boys will be Boys humor, doesn’t come out right. I have overeacted, undereacted, and even a stupid now then. Ouch!

I guess, I really wanted to get your attention, but came out as pompous.

My apologies.

purveyor said:
BRUCE,

Sometimes sarcasm and the Boys will be Boys humor, doesn’t come out right. I have overeacted, undereacted, and even a stupid now then. Ouch!

I guess, I really wanted to get your attention, but came out as pompous.

My apologies.

You don’t need to apologize, you did nothing wrong. I just didn’t want you to get the wrong idea. And now that I understand the way you intended your post, I am sorry human interaction can not be conveyed through a cold two dimensional medium. I’m sure there must have been many times I have misinterpreted intent of another poster. No hard feelings. Feel free to “rip” my “Socialistic” “Communistic” comments. But I am afraid that I will forever be someone focused on the welfare of my fellow human beings, especially those who have less than you and I.

America sucks because of people like you are dumb enough to vote for the likes of Sarah Palin.

He is getting lots of money from the Robber Barrons to help destroy this country. Mitch and the Republicans are in bed with the Koch Brothers.

He is getting lots of money from the Robber Barrons to help destroy this country. Mitch and the Republicans are in bed with the Koch Brothers.